Re: POLISH MAN WOJCHIECH KROKOWSKI IS SUDDENLY BACK AS A SUSPECT AFTER 8 YEARS 5 MONTHS AND 22 DAYS - Sunday People, 25 October 2015

by Rogue-a-Tory 26.10.15 11:00

BlueBag wrote:
BlueBag wrote:The ear is a nice touch by whoever ~~copied~~ made the drawing.

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Is it too perfect? In my opinion yes.

Would Jane really have noticed that detail in that light at that distance?

Doesn't look like Murat though which is what she originally said.

It looks like they were trying to stitch Krowkowski up big time.

Lets not forget that DCI Redwood has diligently eliminated Jane Tanner's man as an innocent holidaymaker returning with his child from the creche.

So unless Mr Krowkowski looks like the Smith family sighting, the Gerry looky-likey, or Lorenco's sighting then he's a non-starter - even before examining the hard facts that definitely eliminate Mr Krowkowski.

by jeanmonroe 26.10.15 12:11

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Wojchiech Krokowski?

The 'original' Polish ~~PATSY~~ 'pasty'?

OG said in a 'statement'.......... 'unfortunately, we are unable to progress the Madeleine case further, at this time, as DC Rather Bright, was hungry and ate the Polish pasty 'evidence' before we could submit it to the world renown UK FSS. We are, however, very confident, that vigilant citizens will have baked 'copies' of the 'evidence' before it unfortunately disappeared. Evening all.'

'joking', as always!

No 'six o'clock' KNOCK for me!

Please, pretty please winkwink

by Guest 26.10.15 12:26

BlueBag wrote:The ear is a nice touch by whoever ~~copied~~ made the drawing.

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Well spotted! Don't look much like Gerry McCann either - still confusion is good.

by jeanmonroe 26.10.15 12:39

OG really 'are' being 'mugged off' in PUBLIC, imo.

There are lots of people IN prisons who 'thought' they were 'so much smarter' than the police!

I always did 'wonder' WHEN, LONG HAIRED 'Tannerman/ ANDY's 'Crecheman' (9:15/20pm) had his 'hair cut' to appear as SHORT HAIRED 'Smithman.' (10:00pm)

by Guest 26.10.15 12:42

jeanmonroe wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Wojchiech Krokowski?

The 'original' Polish ~~PATSY~~ 'pasty'?

OG said in a 'statement'.......... 'unfortunately, we are unable to progress the Madeleine case further, at this time, as DC Rather Bright, was hungry and ate the Polish pasty 'evidence' before we could submit it to the world renown UK FSS. We are, however, very confident, that vigilant citizens will have baked 'copies' of the 'evidence' before it unfortunately disappeared. Evening all.'

'joking', as always!

No 'six o'clock' KNOCK for me!

Please, pretty please

That's brilliant!

by Guest 26.10.15 13:01

There is however a similarity of style..

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Lourenco De Jesus was said to be a camera happy and he claims to have photographed Krokowski - debatable whether with or without his finger over the camera lens.

ETA: Is it possible that a photograph was handed over to Murat and/or Tanner at the infamous Burgau apartment - the apartment where hairs were found by forensics that matched the haplotype of Murat and Tanner?

by plebgate 26.10.15 14:15

None of this makes any sense to me - the man is hardly likely (IMO) to have any pictures that would connect him to events during the holiday. If he had had any, then surely he would have been smart/sneaky enough to delete them well before anyone thought to take a look at his camera?

Even if he had had some pics which might put him near the apartment, what would that prove?

DNA left in the apartment or a confession - now that would mean something, but photos on a camera, nah can't see what this is all about really.

by jeanmonroe 26.10.15 14:26

It would 'appear' that the McS? and/or their 'acolytes' have 'DONE' for ex DCI Redwood's carefully erm, 'imagined' Smithman.!

It took OG over 2 1/2 years to 'come up with Smithman', to er, 'help' JT 'explain'.......... Tannerman.

OG even 'found' a Crecheman! (to 'help' JT)

How'd you 'feel' now, Andy?

'Mugged off'?

I, would be!

'It wuz Tannerman wot dunnit, innit?' 'U get me, plod?'

thinking

'time' to take the 'heat' off the Smith 'family'....'sighting'?

People 'won't look there' if 'we' can bring 'it back' to 'Tannerman' via Wojchiech Krokowski.

by Guest 26.10.15 15:04

Verdi wrote:ETA: Is it possible that a photograph was handed over to Murat and/or Tanner at the infamous Burgau apartment - the apartment where hairs were found by forensics that matched the haplotype of Murat and Tanner?

Hello Verdi,

People need to stop using this as if it means something.

The match was a maternal bloodline DNA and covered something like 60 million people in Europe alone - something like 1 in 10 Europeans would match this.

This was discussed to death a while back.

I saw Tony used it the other day as well.

by Guest 26.10.15 15:24

BlueBag wrote:
Verdi wrote:ETA: Is it possible that a photograph was handed over to Murat and/or Tanner at the infamous Burgau apartment - the apartment where hairs were found by forensics that matched the haplotype of Murat and Tanner?
Hello Verdi,

People need to stop using this as if it means something.

The match was a maternal bloodline DNA and covered something like 60 million people in Europe alone - something like 1 in 10 Europeans would match this.

This was discussed to death a while back.

I saw Tony used it the other day as well.

Yes, I know BlueBag and I fully agreed with you at the time is was being discussed - ignore me, just thinking out loud. I'm stuck in the track of the visit by the McCanns to Sagres on 30th April 2007 as widely reported by the press - any degree of luck a train might be along soon..

by jeanmonroe 26.10.15 15:28

'Sagres'..............a 'reminder'

The Car Hired 5 Weeks After Madeleine’s Disappearance

By admin, on December 10th, 2008

John McCann, the uncle of missing girl Madeleine speaks to the media in Glasgow after her mother Kate was made a formal suspect by police in Portugal.

When the DNA evidence was first brought to light, John McCann appeared on Sky Television in an interview.

Interestingly, and never challenged at the time, John went into elaborate detail about the car hired by brother Gerry and said;

“…but some of the, some of the stuff that’s being speculated on just isn’t plausible. Like information appearing about samples in a car which Gerry and Kate only got 5 weeks after Madeleine disappeared. Are you trying to tell me that Madeleine was hidden for 5 weeks and then was suddenly reappeared in this hire car. It…does not make sense.”

Did John make an amazing Freudian Slip? Why did John mention “5 weeks” when he was talking in September 2007 – months after Madeleine had disappeared?

The facts are that the car had been hired on May 27 – 24 days after Madeleine was reported missing. 24 days is a significantly shorter time than 5 weeks.

So, what could be significant about something happening 5 weeks after Madeleine’s demise?

5 weeks after Madeleine disappeared was the weekend commencing Friday June 8, 2007. When we look closely at that weekend, there are several interesting things to note:

The McCann family flew in to the Algarve or were already there for that weekend. Susan and Brian Healy – Kate’s parents – were there. Trish and Sandy Cameron – Gerry’s sister and his brother in-law were there. Philomena flew in to Lisbon and Kate’s long time friend Anne-Marie Wright and her husband Michael had flown in to Faro.

Michael told the police that he and his wife flew in with the specific job of looking after Sean and Amelie while Kate and Gerry went to Morocco on Sunday June 10. Given the large number of close family relatives in town, Michael’s statement to the police is flawed.

On Saturday June 9, 2007, the entire family is supposed to have spent a day at the southwestern tip of Portugal – a town called Sagres.

On the Sunday afternoon, Kate, Gerry and Clarence Mitchell all went up to Lisbon to catch a small private plane laid on especially for them to go to Casablanca in Morocco. Their ultimate destination was Rabat, where a press conference with Sky’s Martin Brunt was held.

North Africa in June is a very hot place to be. Why then was Martin Brunt wearing a white suit, children were wearing t-shirts, but they chose to wear the worst attire possible – black suits more befitting a funeral?

Was Madeleine disposed of during the weekend of June 8? Did John McCann inadvertently let it slip that this was the weekend when Madeleine was finally laid to rest or disposed of?

by **Tony Bennett** 26.10.15 19:16

Reviewing the thread to date and responding:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

melisanda: He took some photos, kept the photos, police had a chat with him about said photos etc, police moved on to other things, guy not a suspect, end of non-story...Even if [Krokowski's camera did reveal the weather on 3rd May, they can't be arrested because they lied about the weather conditions...

REPLY: Wojchiech Krokowski himself is not a non-story because he is right bang at the centre of events in those vital first two days of the investigation. There was clearly a plot for Krokowksi to be identified by the PJ early on Saturday 5 May, and Goncalo Amaral in his book notes how very similar Lournco's description of Krokowski was to Jane Tanner's of Tannerman. On the point about lying about the weather conditions, if we look instead at the possibility that the 'Last Photo' was forged, e.g. by the date stamp being changed from '29 April' to '3 May', then we are looking at what in both England and Portugal would be regarded as a very serious example of 'perverting the course of justice'

BlueBag: The case for copying [Tannerman copied from Krokowski] is strong

REPLY: Yes, the comparison pics you posted up were compelling and I'm keeping Krokowski as my avatar for a while as a reminder of the striking likeness of Tannerman to Krokowski

BlueBag: [The purpsoe was] to stitch up Krokowksi

REPLY: I would put it slightly differently, like this: "The purpose was to cause major disruption to the initial stages of the PJ investigation, by using a description of Krokowski". I don't think there was any serious attempt to get him arrested. It helped to perpetuate the abduction claim. And we can't rule out the possibility that Krokowksi actually connived with Lourenco and maybe Murat to run this particular hoax

aiyoyo: Clearly he's been eliminated and the police didn't think his photos will hold anything of use to them, else you'd think they would have asked for them by now. He was just smoke and mirrors that distracted from the investigation back then and police wasted time being side tracked when they could have focused closer to home.

REPLY: Agreed No more to say

Aquila: I don't believe Nuno Lorenco's statement has any credibility.

REPLY: Agreed No more to say

Rogue-a-Tory: So unless Mr Krowkowski looks like the Smith family sighting...or Lourenco's sighting

REPLY: Er, Lourenco's sighting IS Krokowski - it's been proved - see PJ files

Verdi: ETA: Is it possible that a photograph was handed over to Murat and/or Tanner at the infamous Burgau apartment - the apartment where hairs were found by forensics that matched the haplotype of Murat and Tanner?

REPLY: Yes. And equally it's possible that Krokowski, Murat and Tanner all MET, in Krokowski's apartment (maybe with others) to plan this hoax

BlueBag: People need to stop using this [the hair haplotypes of Murat and Tannerr] as if it means something. The match was a maternal bloodline DNA and covered something like 60 million people in Europe alone - something like 1 in 10 Europeans would match this. This was discussed to death a while back.

REPLY: I dissent from this view. I suggest that because the hairs are those of the same haplotype as Murat and Tanner that it is more likely that they belong to those two individuals than anyone else. I doubt whether '1 in 10 Europeans' would match those haplotypes..but...is there a haplotype expert in the house?

jeanmonroe drew attention to the McCanns and their extended family visiting Sagres on Saturday 9 June and then both appearing on a boiling hot day in Morocco the next day (10 June) wearing black suits.

REPLY: I agree that that was decidedly unusual

by sonic72 26.10.15 20:50

Joannep43 wrote:Its sounds to me that he has contacted the newspaper and he has found something "useful" or significant on the photographs.Why would he want to talk about this now after all these years.?Why would he want to remind people he was once a suspect? Why is the article repeating that he has saved the photos? I think there must be something of interest in his photographs .

Why not just go to the police? And why The Sunday People of all papers?

Seems a bit odd to me, probably more spin because the article claims that Amaral regretted not pursuing the photos, or something like that, so they told a blatant lie about Amaral. The police arent going to release any info, so I think this is just another non-story.

by NickE 26.10.15 21:10

Witness statement of Maria Manuela Martins da Silva 2007.05.08
"After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment";

Krokowskis rental car.
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Jane Tanner´s "Tannerman"(Krokowski??)

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Did Jane Tanner enter Krokowskis apartment?

Russel O´Brien:
"When we arrived we parked near to the apartment reception and we were taken to our room around lunchtime. I recall sending a text message to Gerry and Dave to say that we had arrived and also a text to a friend from Germany- who had tried to ring me, I had sent a message to tell them I was away on holiday".

Table of Contents : 465 to 466—Correspondence between Leicestershire constabulary and PJ re: Polish couple.

"They booked 2 tickets over the internet on 25/03/2007 for flights from Berlin-Schoenefeld Airport on flight AB2745. They took seats 18D and E, or 18C abd D.
Dates of travel, however, have not been provided by the investigators".

The question is:
Was Krokowski a part of the plan?

by Ayniia 26.10.15 21:33

How much of a coincidence that Richard D Hall documentary about Madeleine deals with Krokowski and suddenly , bam , a Mirror article that basically says nothing new about him...
Sometimes I just need to remind myself about Eddie and Keela in order not to go on the wild goosechase again.
End of short rant

by Carrry On Doctor 26.10.15 21:44

It would certainly appear that Krokowski was being fitted up at least as a diversionary measure in the early stages of the investigation.

I think more will come out of this as the topic is pursued and debated. Who knows, there may be something behind the recent newspaper story regarding new photographs.

If a strong case emerges to support this, Krakowski being earmarked prior to the 3rd as a 'candidate' is a very compelling argument (in addition to HiDehos' research and Hobbs' analysis) that an incident occurred early on.

IMO

by **Tony Bennett** 26.10.15 22:20

Carrry On Doctor wrote:It would certainly appear that Krokowski was being fitted up at least as a diversionary measure in the early stages of the investigation.

I think more will come out of this as the topic is pursued and debated. Who knows, there may be something behind the recent newspaper story regarding new photographs.

If a strong case emerges to support this, Krokowski being earmarked prior to the 3rd as a 'candidate' is a very compelling argument (in addition to HiDeHo's research and Hobs' analysis) that an incident occurred early on.

IMO

REPLY:

Aynila wrote:
How much of a coincidence that Richard D Hall documentary about Madeleine deals with Krokowski and suddenly, bam, a Mirror article that basically says nothing new about him...

REPLY:

by Guest 27.10.15 8:52

BlueBag: People need to stop using this [the hair haplotypes of Murat and Tannerr] as if it means something. The match was a maternal bloodline DNA and covered something like 60 million people in Europe alone - something like 1 in 10 Europeans would match this. This was discussed to death a while back.

REPLY: I dissent from this view. I suggest that because the hairs are those of the same haplotype as Murat and Tanner that it is more likely that they belong to those two individuals than anyone else. I doubt whether '1 in 10 Europeans' would match those haplotypes..but...is there a haplotype expert in the house?

Sorry Tony you are wrong.

I went into great detail about this a few months ago.

The DNA profile is very wide sweeping.

There are only about such 10 profiles for that type of DNA for Europeans. Roughly one tenth of the population of Pria Da Luz would match that profile.

by Guest 27.10.15 8:59

From a post a made a while ago:

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From the PJ files
"a mother belonging to any of the eight profiles in the database"

That's an enormous amount of people.

I think there are about - quickly guessitmating from the link - 100 (ish) maternal profiles in Europe.

As I said the evidence is mostly worthless and someone is making a mountain out of a molehill.

by jeanmonroe 27.10.15 11:41

@Carrry On Doctor

"I think more will come out of this as the topic is pursued and debated. Who knows, there may be something behind the recent newspaper story regarding new photographs."
--------------------------------

Like a NEW 'photograph' of a 'woman' looking like KM, getting into a 'taxi' with a 'child', and going to the border between Portugal and Spain?

'that' sort of photograph? winkwink

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António Castela Sighting

António José Castela Cardoso, or Castela as he is known in Vila Real de Santo António

26 August 2008: The Jornal do Algarve reports a claim by Portuguese taxi driver António José Castela Cardoso that he transported a girl in pink pyjamas, resembling Madeleine's description, at 8.10pm on the night of May 3rd 2007, in the company of four adults. He says one of the three men with the child resembled Robert Murat and the lone woman looked like Kate McCann. He claims to have contacted the PJ the following day when he saw Madeleine's picture on TV.

Clarence Mitchell says: "The declarations of Mr. Castela are false. They are a perfect nonsense. He can only be mistaken when he says that at that time he transported Kate and Madeleine with three men ... It astonishes me that only now, ten months later, he talks about this. These are declarations that only cause pain to Kate and Gerry."

Correio da Manhã (28.08.08) report that a 'source close to the investigation' has assured them that the claims made by António Castela were "investigated" at the time and "the lead was discounted."

It is also reported that Mr Castela has spoken to the McCanns' private detectives, who were, at that time, Método 3.

02 May 2012: The claim suddenly resurfaces again in an Evening Standard article, to coincide with the fifth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance, but this time the sighting has shifted forward 24 hours to the evening of May 4th. In addition, the time has been changed to 7.50pm and all reference to Kate McCann and Robert Murat has been removed.

Clarence Mitchell says: "Mr Castela did absolutely the right thing at the time by reporting his sighting to the PJ. It is clearly deeply shocking that he now tells us he has not been interviewed once by a detective in five years. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be looked at in the investigative review now being carried out by the Metropolitan Police."

August 2013 The British press speculate that Mr Castela is one of 38 'persons of interest' that are expected to be questioned as part of the Met's 'investigative review' of the case.

funnyshit

by NickE 27.10.15 15:05

jeanmonroe wrote:@Carrry On Doctor

"I think more will come out of this as the topic is pursued and debated. Who knows, there may be something behind the recent newspaper story regarding new photographs."
--------------------------------

Like a NEW 'photograph' of a 'woman' looking like KM, getting into a 'taxi' with a 'child', and going to the border between Portugal and Spain?

'that' sort of photograph?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

António Castela Sighting

António José Castela Cardoso, or Castela as he is known in Vila Real de Santo António

26 August 2008: The Jornal do Algarve reports a claim by Portuguese taxi driver António José Castela Cardoso that he transported a girl in pink pyjamas, resembling Madeleine's description, at 8.10pm on the night of May 3rd 2007, in the company of four adults. He says one of the three men with the child resembled Robert Murat and the lone woman looked like Kate McCann. He claims to have contacted the PJ the following day when he saw Madeleine's picture on TV.

Clarence Mitchell says: "The declarations of Mr. Castela are false. They are a perfect nonsense. He can only be mistaken when he says that at that time he transported Kate and Madeleine with three men ... It astonishes me that only now, ten months later, he talks about this. These are declarations that only cause pain to Kate and Gerry."

Correio da Manhã (28.08.08) report that a 'source close to the investigation' has assured them that the claims made by António Castela were "investigated" at the time and "the lead was discounted."

It is also reported that Mr Castela has spoken to the McCanns' private detectives, who were, at that time, Método 3.

02 May 2012: The claim suddenly resurfaces again in an Evening Standard article, to coincide with the fifth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance, but this time the sighting has shifted forward 24 hours to the evening of May 4th. In addition, the time has been changed to 7.50pm and all reference to Kate McCann and Robert Murat has been removed.

Clarence Mitchell says: "Mr Castela did absolutely the right thing at the time by reporting his sighting to the PJ. It is clearly deeply shocking that he now tells us he has not been interviewed once by a detective in five years. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be looked at in the investigative review now being carried out by the Metropolitan Police."

August 2013 The British press speculate that Mr Castela is one of 38 'persons of interest' that are expected to be questioned as part of the Met's 'investigative review' of the case.

Sarah F*x?
Madalene Rid*r?
Was the Creche-substitute-job done for the week and the time had come to stage the abduction?

Unfortunately,Mr Castela demanded too much money to talk further with "Kiko".

by **Tony Bennett** 27.10.15 23:05

NickE wrote:
Sarah F*x?
Madalene Rid*r?
Was the Creche-substitute-job done for the week and the time had come to stage the abduction?

Unfortunately, Mr Castela demanded too much money to talk further with "Kiko".

@ NickE - Thank you for your contributions on this page and the previous page.

1. I think the fact that Mr Castela demanded a large fee to talk to 'Kiko'/kikoratton/santacoloma is yet one more reason why we can't rely on what he says - plus the long delay in reporting this story. I've always discounted his account and believe it is best ignored. Would a 'substitute' dressed in pink pyjamas be spirited away like that, in a taxi to an airport? It seems unlikely in the extreme.

2. Krokowksi booking his flight on 21 March. That seems unremarkable. Five weeks before the holiday. Nothing wrong with that. Contrast that with Robert Murat being summoned urgently by someone during Monday 30 April, then dashing in the early hours of Tuesday to catch the 7am plane to Faro, then getting heavily involved in the translating and lying 17 times about what he did in Praia da Luz between 1 and 4 May.

3. Dr Russell O'Brien's message from someone in Germany. I can't read too much into that either. It could I suppose have been a reference to Nuno Lourenco, who says he had emigrated to Germany but was back visiting his Mum in Sagres for three weeks. If so, that would be of massive significance - but we don't know who this 'man from Germnay was'.

4. Where I do think you make a very good point is in relation to this that you posted:

Witness statement of Maria Manuela Martins da Silva 2007.05.08

"After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment";

We now know the following about Krokwski:

A. Lourenco almost certainly lied about Krokowski taking lots of photographs on Sagres beach and then nearly snatching his child
B. Lourenco identified Krokowksi as the man the PJ should be looking for and, crucially, provided a photo of a small grey car which was the one thing that enabled Goncalo and his men to identify Krokowski
C. Evidence that Jane Tanner based her initial description of 'Tannerman' on Krokowski is very strong
D. There is evidence that Tanner's description of 'Tannerman' followed hot on the heels by Lourenco's identification of Krokowski must have been pre-planned earlier in the week.

Given all of that, it seems to me to be much too convenient to be true that Maria Manuela Martins da Silva happened to see only: "a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment".

Maria da Silva made her statement on Tuesday 8 May. No-one would know that by then the PJ had more or less discounted Krokowski. I consider it possible therefore that Maria da Silva had been 'told' by someone to mention that she saw a small grey car parked close to the window of the McCanns' apartment.

5. I do not support kiko's 'substitute' theory as I don't think he has evidenced it.

6. Finally, you asked if Krokowksi was 'part of the plan'. I don't think so at present, though he most definitely became part of the plan. The question is whether he was a witting or unwitting part of the plan. I think there are some indications both ways

by **Nina** 28.10.15 10:08

Tony Bennett wrote:
NickE wrote:
Sarah F*x?
Madalene Rid*r?
Was the Creche-substitute-job done for the week and the time had come to stage the abduction?

Unfortunately, Mr Castela demanded too much money to talk further with "Kiko".
@ NickE - Thank you for your contributions on this page and the previous page.

1. I think the fact that Mr Castela demanded a large fee to talk to 'Kiko'/kikoratton/santacoloma is yet one more reason why we can't rely on what he says - plus the long delay in reporting this story. I've always discounted his account and believe it is best ignored. Would a 'substitute' dressed in pink pyjamas be spirited away like that, in a taxi to an airport? It seems unlikely in the extreme.

2. Krokowksi booking his flight on 21 March. That seems unremarkable. Five weeks before the holiday. Nothing wrong with that. Contrast that with Robert Murat being summoned urgently by someone during Monday 30 April, then dashing in the early hours of Tuesday to catch the 7am plane to Faro, then getting heavily involved in the translating and lying 17 times about what he did in Praia da Luz between 1 and 4 May.

3. Dr Russell O'Brien's message from someone in Germany. I can't read too much into that either. It could I suppose have been a reference to Nuno Lourenco, who says he had emigrated to Germany but was back visiting his Mum in Sagres for three weeks. If so, that would be of massive significance - but we don't know who this 'man from Germnay was'.

4. Where I do think you make a very good point is in relation to this that you posted:

Witness statement of Maria Manuela Martins da Silva 2007.05.08

"After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment";

We now know the following about Krokwski:

A. Lourenco almost certainly lied about Krokowski taking lots of photographs on Sagres beach and then nearly snatching his child
B. Lourenco identified Krokowksi as the man the PJ should be looking for and, crucially, provided a photo of a small grey car which was the one thing that enabled Goncalo and his men to identify Krokowski
C. Evidence that Jane Tanner based her initial description of 'Tannerman' on Krokowski is very strong
D. There is evidence that Tanner's description of 'Tannerman' followed hot on the heels by Lourenco's identification of Krokowski must have been pre-planned earlier in the week.

Given all of that, it seems to me to be much too convenient to be true that Maria Manuela Martins da Silva happened to see only: "a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment".

Maria da Silva made her statement on Tuesday 8 May. No-one would know that by then the PJ had more or less discounted Krokowski. I consider it possible therefore that Maria da Silva had been 'told' by someone to mention that she saw a small grey car parked close to the window of the McCanns' apartment.

5. I do not support kiko's 'substitute' theory as I don't think he has evidenced it.

6. Finally, you asked if Krokowksi was 'part of the plan'. I don't think so at present, though he most definitely became part of the plan. The question is whether he was a witting or unwitting part of the plan. I think there are some indications both ways

Which window of the McCann apartment did he mean?

by NickE 28.10.15 11:05

Tony Bennett wrote:
NickE wrote:
Sarah F*x?
Madalene Rid*r?
Was the Creche-substitute-job done for the week and the time had come to stage the abduction?

Unfortunately, Mr Castela demanded too much money to talk further with "Kiko".
@ NickE - Thank you for your contributions on this page and the previous page.

1. I think the fact that Mr Castela demanded a large fee to talk to 'Kiko'/kikoratton/santacoloma is yet one more reason why we can't rely on what he says - plus the long delay in reporting this story. I've always discounted his account and believe it is best ignored. Would a 'substitute' dressed in pink pyjamas be spirited away like that, in a taxi to an airport? It seems unlikely in the extreme.

2. Krokowksi booking his flight on 21 March. That seems unremarkable. Five weeks before the holiday. Nothing wrong with that. Contrast that with Robert Murat being summoned urgently by someone during Monday 30 April, then dashing in the early hours of Tuesday to catch the 7am plane to Faro, then getting heavily involved in the translating and lying 17 times about what he did in Praia da Luz between 1 and 4 May.

3. Dr Russell O'Brien's message from someone in Germany. I can't read too much into that either. It could I suppose have been a reference to Nuno Lourenco, who says he had emigrated to Germany but was back visiting his Mum in Sagres for three weeks. If so, that would be of massive significance - but we don't know who this 'man from Germnay was'.

4. Where I do think you make a very good point is in relation to this that you posted:

Witness statement of Maria Manuela Martins da Silva 2007.05.08

"After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment";

We now know the following about Krokwski:

A. Lourenco almost certainly lied about Krokowski taking lots of photographs on Sagres beach and then nearly snatching his child
B. Lourenco identified Krokowksi as the man the PJ should be looking for and, crucially, provided a photo of a small grey car which was the one thing that enabled Goncalo and his men to identify Krokowski
C. Evidence that Jane Tanner based her initial description of 'Tannerman' on Krokowski is very strong
D. There is evidence that Tanner's description of 'Tannerman' followed hot on the heels by Lourenco's identification of Krokowski must have been pre-planned earlier in the week.

Given all of that, it seems to me to be much too convenient to be true that Maria Manuela Martins da Silva happened to see only: "a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment".

Maria da Silva made her statement on Tuesday 8 May. No-one would know that by then the PJ had more or less discounted Krokowski. I consider it possible therefore that Maria da Silva had been 'told' by someone to mention that she saw a small grey car parked close to the window of the McCanns' apartment.

5. I do not support kiko's 'substitute' theory as I don't think he has evidenced it.

6. Finally, you asked if Krokowksi was 'part of the plan'. I don't think so at present, though he most definitely became part of the plan. The question is whether he was a witting or unwitting part of the plan. I think there are some indications both ways

That´s interesting.
I am thinking out loud here,there is no evidence for this is, just questions:
What is it they might have in common?
Sagres?
Did the McCann´s and Krokowski met each other in Sagres on the lost Monday?
Jane Tanner came up with "Tannerman"(Krokowski??),is it a coincidence that she-she(Not Kate,not Fiona,not Rachel) may have been in Krokowskis apartment in Burgau?
If Krokowski was acting Tannerman, what was it that made him do it? Cheated? Money? or forced/blackmailed for a reason? (think,if something happened to her re "the make up photo"?)

by Guest 28.10.15 12:35

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

That´s interesting.
I am thinking out loud here,there is no evidence for this is, just questions:
What is it they might have in common?
Sagres?
Did the McCann´s and Krokowski met each other in Sagres on the lost Monday?
Jane Tanner came up with "Tannerman"(Krokowski??),is it a coincidence that she-she(Not Kate,not Fiona,not Rachel) may have been in Krokowskis apartment in Burgau?

Remembered posting something on another thread which I've just found. Snipped..

MISSING - Monday 30th April 2007

I'm very interested to know the source of information reported by the UK press in May 2007 about the McCanns alleged trip to Sagres..

The Telegraph - By Richard Edwards and Fiona Govan in Praia da Luz 12:01AM BST 12th May 2007

ABDUCTORS COULD HAVE SPIED ON GIRL FOR DAYS

Police were last night investigating whether Madeleine McCann was watched by her abductors three days before she was snatched.

Detectives have discovered that the McCann family went to the town of Sagres, on the southern tip of the Algarve, on April 30.

A witness has told police that on the same day he saw a suspicious man following families and photographing children, including his daughter, a blonde girl "strikingly similar" to Madeleine...

Police have asked the McCanns for all the photographs from the trip to Sagres, and the rest of their holiday, looking for suspects in the background..

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Could this be the real reason for the Nuno Lourenco's story - reported to have occurred on 29th April 2007 at Mareta beach, Sagres?
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Lobster Club Crèche records Monday 30th April 2007 - Afternoon

Signed in by Kate McCann at 15H15 and signed out by Kate McCann at 15H30. (Parent's location - Kate's mobile phone number)

Jellyfish Club Crèche records 30th April 2007 - Afternoon

Signed in by Kate McCann at 15H20 and signed out by Kate McCann at 17H20. (Parent's location - Kate and Gerry's mobile phone numbers)
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So if these records are to be believed, Madeleine was only at the crèche on that afternoon for 15 minutes whilst the twins were at the Jellyfish club for 2 hours? Contact point mobile phone numbers as opposed to tennis court/room/swimming pool?

ETA: Were the McCanns at Sagres/Burgau on Monday 30th April 2007, with Madeleine and perhaps a.n.others? Personally I don't think Krokowski is the key, I think it more likely to be Lourenco.

by snook 28.10.15 13:59

Oh there Amy evidence for the trip to Sagres? I recall a statement where it is recalled someone insists the say the Mccanns with a double buggy but no mention of Madeleine.

by NickE 28.10.15 14:55

snook wrote:Oh there Amy evidence for the trip to Sagres? I recall a statement where it is recalled someone insists the say the Mccanns with a double buggy but no mention of Madeleine.

Snipped from media:
"A shopkeeper in the town said she remembered them well.
She said: "On the road into the town, Kate was holding Madeleine's hand. On the other side of the road was Gerry with a baby buggy.
"I remember thinking it odd to see him with a baby buggy because I thought the little girl was too old to need one."
She said it was the same day as the stranger taking photographs, although other witnesses said that happened two days later."

But I don´t think the McCann´s or someone else in the Tapas gang have mentioned anything about Sagres on Monday 30 April.
In fact,everyone involved seems to have forget that day. nah

Anyway, Sunday night and Monday April 30 is the key to unlock this case. IMO

by Guest 28.10.15 15:57

snook wrote:Oh there Amy evidence for the trip to Sagres? I recall a statement where it is recalled someone insists the say the Mccanns with a double buggy but no mention of Madeleine.

No snook, I don't believe it was ever confirmed by the PJ, or anybody else for that matter. That simple fact makes it even more curious in my mind - where did the press get this story from? The press reports were doing the rounds on or around the 12th May 2007, long before the trip to Sagres beach Gerry McCann mentions on his blog sometime in June. As the date coincides with Lourenco's mumbo jumbo about a stranger photographing children it got me wondering about a possible connection. After all, there is no conclusive evidence as to the whereabouts of the McCanns on Monday 30th June nor any of their mates. They also put great emphasis on not having access to a car between 28th April and 3rd May (incl.) but it has since been said that a friend of one of the T9 was stayng at PdL during the same week - and of course Murat and whoever else have wheels.

No smoke without fire?

by Rogue-a-Tory 28.10.15 16:26

Verdi wrote:
snook wrote:Oh there Amy evidence for the trip to Sagres? I recall a statement where it is recalled someone insists the say the Mccanns with a double buggy but no mention of Madeleine.
No snook, I don't believe it was ever confirmed by the PJ, or anybody else for that matter. That simple fact makes it even more curious in my mind - where did the press get this story from? The press reports were doing the rounds on or around the 12th May 2007, long before the trip to Sagres beach Gerry McCann mentions on his blog sometime in June. As the date coincides with Lourenco's mumbo jumbo about a stranger photographing children it got me wondering about a possible connection. After all, there is no conclusive evidence as to the whereabouts of the McCanns on Monday 30th June nor any of their mates. They also put great emphasis on not having access to a car between 28th April and 3rd May (incl.) but it has since been said that a friend of one of the T9 was stayng at PdL during the same week - and of course Murat and whoever else have wheels.

No smoke without fire?

There's also the alleged rendezvous between GM & Murat at the Las Palmares Golf Club that Richard D Hall talks about in his first films (3 May I think). A location definitely not accessible from PdL without wheels.

by Joannep43 28.10.15 17:00

Interesting that on the 30th April there were no pings from the McCanns mobiles to the Luz antenna.
I've been looking through the crèche records and don't know if this has been mentioned before.looking at the record for 29th both of the McCanns have signed.Gerry McCann writes the time in/ out by writing the hour full size and the minutes very small.Kate writes both hour and minutes the same size.If you look at the crèche sheets for the rest of the days at how the times in and out are written by both,the discrepancies start on the 30th April.I believe people's signature can vary slightly .I didnt think the way we write digits changes.

POLISH MAN WOJCHIECH KROKOWSKI IS SUDDENLY BACK AS A SUSPECT AFTER 8 YEARS 5 MONTHS AND 22 DAYS - Sunday People, 25 October 2015