Have i just met david payne?

by **Hobs** 25.08.15 20:36

My uncle who is stage 4 renal failure more likely now stage 5 was admitted into hospital again yesterday early am.
After a happy wander through the joys of ER and finally him ending up back on the ward he left friday night ( 2 days out of hospital is his new record)
I hung around as t6he first Drs rounds bumbled by and i was then told his consultant would be coming to have a chat about kidney options.

In the pm i saw a face and i thought, he looks very familiar and my 6th sense was ringing bells and firing off alarms.
Uncle said that's my consultant, dr payne.

At that point i thought really?

The guy is a total twonk.

he mentioned about uncle's kidney and said his gfr was 15.7 ( the test said 15 which given his diabetes means renal failure)
he then waffled on about the options open to him .
he said we can do a stent.
I said hell no cos the last time you did that, uncle got 3 massives utis and spent many happy weeks in hospital, this is why he had the nephrostomy
UNcle then said she (meaning me had ocd and was fixated on stents) and wanting the stent ( he thinks a stent is quicker and he will be bout of hospital quicker, not realising he will be back in even quicker)
Said twonk then said you can't use previous experiences to decide on future decisions before waffling on about chickens crossing the road huh

He then said he would be examining uncles kidney through a telescope since all the blood and fluid around the kidney ( uncle accidentally pulled on out july 11th and in his last visit after they finally fitted a new one, that 'fell out' so he doesn't currently have one in)
I said "excuse me?"
He said a telescope so we can see what is happening.

I said (in best Father Ted voice to Father Dougal) you do realise a telescope is used for seeing things far away. Things like planets, stars, galaxies?
He replied it is a small telescope wft

I responded i think you mean a laprascope or an endoscope, used to see things inside the body.

Uncle was saying he wanted a stent and i was saying hell no.

At some point it is a given uncle will lose said kidney, sunday night he was wanting anyone to just pull it out he was in so much pain)
I pointed out given his history, the fact that last time they tried to reinsert the nephrostomy, uncle wet the bed on 2 nights due to all the holes they had put in his kidney and skin with the result urine was leaking into his abdomen and then out through all the incision holes.
The fact his kidney had produced 2 teaspoons of urine in 24hrs probably meant wih all the pissing about, his kidney has given up the ghost and packed up.

In which case a stent or nephrostomy won't help except introduce more risk of infection, take the bugger out and stick him on dialysis.
I then bitched about the fact they know he will need d8alysis and thus needs a fistula and, given he is diabetic it will take weeks or longer for it to heal and embedd , assuming they can even fgind suitable veins, else it is an emergency dialysis via the neck.

I did a bit of googling when i got home looking on linknd in etc and it does look like my uncle is under dr payne.

Me being me is now wondering what books i should take in for either me or uncle to read such as I know you are lying , the secret life of pronouns or my favorite

Effective Interviewing and Interrogation Techniques, 3rd Ed

I am also wondering if i should drop uncle off with Dr Amarals book in english.

I wonder if the hospital knows his background and paynes predilection for bathing other peoples children, the Gaspar statements and his statements re Maddie

by missbeetle 25.08.15 21:11

Yikes!!!

by aiyoyo 25.08.15 21:26

Phew......Yikes indeed !

That's promising, a doctor who confuses endoscope with telescope !

Good luck to your uncle.

Leave the book 'madeleine' in full view for when the Dr next visit.

by skyrocket 25.08.15 21:26

WOW!! What's the chances?

Well done - I think I would have been in a state of shock. You forget the guy is actually real and not some cartoon character.

Sounds like a comedy script!! But not too funny for your uncle - hope he does ok. I wouldn't want Payne anywhere near me for numerous reasons. My mother has renal failure/a fistula and she has had only good experiences with her consultant - he didn't go anywhere near her with a telescope (of any size). She just had a small biopsy and that was all that was needed to make a decision on treatment. She is diabetic and is still doing fine with a full life.

So many questions you could (but can't) ask him!

by HelenMeg 25.08.15 21:33

How's he looking these days? Full of the joys ... or a little bit anxious? Fatter or thinner?
Does he know he's off the hook or is he constantly watching his back?

Couldn't you ask for another Consultant as the present one may be called off duty for questioning at short notice

by **Hobs** 25.08.15 22:13

He looks thinner and miserable as sin.

He is not a happy bunny compared to all the other hospital staff i have run across in my trials and tribulations with uncle.

I could be mean and bamboozle him with a bucket load of real technical stuff as long as i don't mind uncle screaming at me to shut up, the doctor knows what he is doing ( yeah really like the fact they yhad scheduled him for a procedure which would have killed him had i not stepped in and said woah you do realise that...) also the hospital have a nasty habit of forgetting he is ona a low salt/low sugar/low potassium diet and instead have him on full diet and then wondering why his potassium levels have rocketed.
I now check the boards and tell them write his diet on there so everyone is aware as today's staff may not be tommorows and stuff gets missed or forgotten in changeovers. ( he sulks cos he then can't have all the stuff he wants but isn't allowed)

I shall have to recheck his discharge notes and the 5 pages of blood results and then do a crash course in renal failure 102 ( i already did 101)

by **Jill Havern** 25.08.15 22:15

Is he still at Leicester Royal Infirmary Hobs? The hospital where Sir Professor Peter Bell said my husband had an inoperable aneurysm and sent him home to die to save money?

edited to say: he did eventually have an operation at the QE in Birmingham and lived a good number of years thereafter.

by **sharonl** 25.08.15 22:20

A bit of advice here

Get your uncle well and away from Dr Payne first - then you can leave some reading material in the waiting room.

PS. I have some material that I can donate, I am sure that others have too big grin

by **Hobs** 25.08.15 23:48

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Is he still at Leicester Royal Infirmary Hobs? The hospital where Sir Professor Peter Bell said my husband had an inoperable aneurysm and sent him home to die to save money?

No he isn't if this is the same guy and everything so far seems to match up.
I shall have to do a bit more visiting to discuss my uncle when he is around and get to any and every appointment uncle has with him.

by **Tony Bennett** 25.08.15 23:58

Hobs wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:Is he still at Leicester Royal Infirmary Hobs? The hospital where Sir Professor Peter Bell said my husband had an inoperable aneurysm and sent him home to die to save money?
No he isn't if this is the same guy and everything so far seems to match up...

Isn't this 'our' Dr David Payne here:

http://www.ramsayhealth.co.uk/consultants/woodland-hospital/urology/mr-david-payne

http://finder.bupa.co.uk/Consultant/view/194971/mr_david_payne

...at the Ramsey Health Care UK private Woodland Hospital, Kettering, Northamptonshire - about 35 miles from Leicester?

The second link gives his main special interest as:

Female urology

by **Hobs** 26.08.15 1:01

Tony Bennett wrote:
Hobs wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:Is he still at Leicester Royal Infirmary Hobs? The hospital where Sir Professor Peter Bell said my husband had an inoperable aneurysm and sent him home to die to save money?
No he isn't if this is the same guy and everything so far seems to match up...
Isn't this 'our' Dr David Payne here:

http://www.ramsayhealth.co.uk/consultants/woodland-hospital/urology/mr-david-payne

http://finder.bupa.co.uk/Consultant/view/194971/mr_david_payne

...at the Ramsey Health Care UK private Woodland Hospital, Kettering, Northamptonshire - about 35 miles from Leicester?

The second link gives his main special interest as:

Female urology

Yes that is his private practice, he also works in a general hospital he is on linkedin

by **tigger** 26.08.15 14:08

Rather worrying I must say, just as well you were there Hobbs!

Mind you, it's not easy to forget Gerry in his very own documentary "Madeleine was here"(I think) giving a demonstration on how not to listen to lungs. His bedside manner wasn't too hot either imo.

What was really lovely (modest man..) is how he pushed his own trolley, selected a seemingly random spot on the capacious chest of a very large man and announced that the lungs were clear of fluid.

by lj 26.08.15 17:52

tigger wrote:Rather worrying I must say, just as well you were there Hobbs!

Mind you, it's not easy to forget Gerry in his very own documentary "Madeleine was here"(I think) giving a demonstration on how not to listen to lungs. His bedside manner wasn't too hot either imo.

What was really lovely (modest man..) is how he pushed his own trolley, selected a seemingly random spot on the capacious chest of a very large man and announced that the lungs were clear of fluid.

Yeah, his physical examination of the chest confirmed what I always thought: he's a lousy doctor.

by Gaggzy 26.08.15 20:02

After reading this, I'm just glad to see he is nowhere near the children's ward!!!

by plebgate 27.08.15 19:06

Hobs wrote:He looks thinner and miserable as sin.

He is not a happy bunny compared to all the other hospital staff i have run across in my trials and tribulations with uncle.

I could be mean and bamboozle him with a bucket load of real technical stuff as long as i don't mind uncle screaming at me to shut up, the doctor knows what he is doing ( yeah really like the fact they yhad scheduled him for a procedure which would have killed him had i not stepped in and said woah you do realise that...) also the hospital have a nasty habit of forgetting he is ona a low salt/low sugar/low potassium diet and instead have him on full diet and then wondering why his potassium levels have rocketed.
I now check the boards and tell them write his diet on there so everyone is aware as today's staff may not be tommorows and stuff gets missed or forgotten in changeovers. ( he sulks cos he then can't have all the stuff he wants but isn't allowed)

I shall have to recheck his discharge notes and the 5 pages of blood results and then do a crash course in renal failure 102 ( i already did 101)

I wonder why?

by Guest 27.08.15 19:17

Maybe because Fiona is now calling herself Webster?

by Gaggzy 27.08.15 19:44

Ladyinred wrote:Maybe because Fiona is now calling herself Webster?

... which may mean David is calling himself a cab.

by Guest 27.08.15 23:08

Gaggzy wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Maybe because Fiona is now calling herself Webster?

... which may mean David is calling himself a cab.

Like it

!

by snook 28.08.15 2:20

Bamboozle a renal consultant over matters concerning kidney cancer?

by **Hobs** 28.08.15 22:42

snook wrote:Bamboozle a renal consultant over matters concerning kidney cancer?

My uncle does not have kidney cancer, he has stage 4 renal failure borderline stage 5.
After meeting with payne, it is clear the guy is clueless.
He has previously tried to schedule procedures which, if performed on a patient with stage 4 renal failure would have killed him had i not said hell no.In the end he did a similar procedure that was safe for my uncle.

Last year my uncle was admitted 3 times with massive UTI's which, if left to his own devices would have killed him, i kicked off and started getting ultra polite ( never a good sign when i have a complaint) whereupon he finally decided to remove the stent and insert a nephrostomy.

Despite not having a stent inserted, said payne still kept trying to call him in to have the stent, which he did not have, changed and expressed surprise when it was pointed out to him.

Regarding his nephrostomy, the prat couldn't hit a barn if he was inside the damn thing.

Multiple attempts to get the nephrostomy tube inside resulted in lacerations to the already screwed kidney ( they have to make a small incision to insert the end directly into the middle of the kidney) it also meant that for 2 nights uncle wet the bed due to him leaking urine from his kidney into his abdomen and then leaking out via the holes in his back and side.

it now appears that with all the dicking around, apart from his kidney now being grossly abnormal and so much build up of blood and fluid around the kidney that it could not be seen via ultrasound, uncle may now have an abscess in his bladder and a huge infection going which they cannot seem to control.

I would not trust payne with a toddlers plastic spoon.

When a 'consultant starts telling me he will be investigating using a telescope, telling me that a patients previous history does not have any affect or impact on future treatment and then waffling on about chickens crossing the road, then he is a prime target for my ire and i will let him use his own words to tell me what i need to know.

by Guest 28.08.15 22:59

Hobs wrote:
snook wrote:Bamboozle a renal consultant over matters concerning kidney cancer?
My uncle does not have kidney cancer, he has stage 4 renal failure borderline stage 5.
After meeting with payne, it is clear the guy is clueless.
He has previously tried to schedule procedures which, if performed on a patient with stage 4 renal failure would have killed him had i not said hell no.In the end he did a similar procedure that was safe for my uncle.

Last year my uncle was admitted 3 times with massive UTI's which, if left to his own devices would have killed him, i kicked off and started getting ultra polite ( never a good sign when i have a complaint) whereupon he finally decided to remove the stent and insert a nephrostomy.

Despite not having a stent inserted, said payne still kept trying to call him in to have the stent, which he did not have, changed and expressed surprise when it was pointed out to him.

Regarding his nephrostomy, the prat couldn't hit a barn if he was inside the damn thing.

Multiple attempts to get the nephrostomy tube inside resulted in lacerations to the already screwed kidney ( they have to make a small incision to insert the end directly into the middle of the kidney) it also meant that for 2 nights uncle wet the bed due to him leaking urine from his kidney into his abdomen and then leaking out via the holes in his back and side.

it now appears that with all the dicking around, apart from his kidney now being grossly abnormal and so much build up of blood and fluid around the kidney that it could not be seen via ultrasound, uncle may now have an abscess in his bladder and a huge infection going which they cannot seem to control.

I would not trust payne with a toddlers plastic spoon.

When a 'consultant starts telling me he will be investigating using a telescope, telling me that a patients previous history does not have any affect or impact on future treatment and then waffling on about chickens crossing the road, then he is a prime target for my ire and i will let him use his own words to tell me what i need to know.

As a matter of interest Hobs, have you reported this consultant, Payne or otherwise, (not sure if you've confirmed one way or the other) to the appropriate authority? From what you say it sounds like a clear cut case of incompetence/malpractice which shouldn't be allowed to continue if lives are at risk.

I find this very concerning.

by snook 29.08.15 0:59

Apologies, I didn't re read and assumed cancer when I read stage 4.
I don't have unswerving faith in the medical profession, many of the drugs and treatments it pushes however I don't think it's right to read a few Google articles and think we can outsmart a professional who has reached consultant level. As for using the word telescope. When an endoscope is a type of telescope. Perhaps he uses it as some patients may not understand the technical words. Surely if he was such a goddam awful quack he'd have been out on his ear for all the death and disease he was wreaking?

by lj 29.08.15 3:19

This is very concerning, Hobs. Can you ask for another doctor?
We will be thinking of you and your uncle!

by **Jill Havern** 29.08.15 6:27

snook wrote:Apologies, I didn't re read and assumed cancer when I read stage 4.
I don't have unswerving faith in the medical profession, many of the drugs and treatments it pushes however I don't think it's right to read a few Google articles and think we can outsmart a professional who has reached consultant level. As for using the word telescope. When an endoscope is a type of telescope. Perhaps he uses it as some patients may not understand the technical words. Surely if he was such a goddam awful quack he'd have been out on his ear for all the death and disease he was wreaking?

I think Hobs is absolutely right to question him and do her own research.

As I said a few pages back a Sir Professor Peter Bell at Leicester Royal Infirmary diagnosed my husband with an inoperable aneursym and sent him home to die (to save money for the LRI) with less than 2 years to live and told me "not to allow him to get stressed". How do you stop a dying man from being stressed knowing his aneurysm could burst at any time?

I researched the whole world (almost having to sell our house to have the operation done in Chicago) and it took 18 months of those two years to fight the NHS to get him an operation here in Birmingham at the QE, the operation was successful (so not inoperable after all then Sir Professor?).

A consultant with a knighthood can get it dangerously wrong too.

http://nhsdeathrow.blogspot.co.uk/

by Guest 29.08.15 15:06

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
snook wrote:Apologies, I didn't re read and assumed cancer when I read stage 4.
I don't have unswerving faith in the medical profession, many of the drugs and treatments it pushes however I don't think it's right to read a few Google articles and think we can outsmart a professional who has reached consultant level. As for using the word telescope. When an endoscope is a type of telescope. Perhaps he uses it as some patients may not understand the technical words. Surely if he was such a goddam awful quack he'd have been out on his ear for all the death and disease he was wreaking?
I think Hobs is absolutely right to question him and do her own research.

As I said a few pages back a Sir Professor Peter Bell at Leicester Royal Infirmary diagnosed my husband with an inoperable aneursym and sent him home to die (to save money for the LRI) with less than 2 years to live and told me "not to allow him to get stressed". How do you stop a dying man from being stressed knowing his aneurysm could burst at any time?

I researched the whole world (almost having to sell our house to have the operation done in Chicago) and it took 18 months of those two years to fight the NHS to get him an operation here in Birmingham at the QE, the operation was successful (so not inoperable after all then Sir Professor?).

A consultant with a knighthood can get it dangerously wrong too.

http://nhsdeathrow.blogspot.co.uk/

Jill, I'm so sorry - words fail me. I'm not an over emotional person but times like this bring you crashing back down to earth and put a whole new perspective on what's important in life.

My heart goes out to you and yours.

Verdi roses

by Guest 29.08.15 15:36

Verdi wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:
snook wrote:Apologies, I didn't re read and assumed cancer when I read stage 4.
I don't have unswerving faith in the medical profession, many of the drugs and treatments it pushes however I don't think it's right to read a few Google articles and think we can outsmart a professional who has reached consultant level. As for using the word telescope. When an endoscope is a type of telescope. Perhaps he uses it as some patients may not understand the technical words. Surely if he was such a goddam awful quack he'd have been out on his ear for all the death and disease he was wreaking?
I think Hobs is absolutely right to question him and do her own research.

As I said a few pages back a Sir Professor Peter Bell at Leicester Royal Infirmary diagnosed my husband with an inoperable aneursym and sent him home to die (to save money for the LRI) with less than 2 years to live and told me "not to allow him to get stressed". How do you stop a dying man from being stressed knowing his aneurysm could burst at any time?

I researched the whole world (almost having to sell our house to have the operation done in Chicago) and it took 18 months of those two years to fight the NHS to get him an operation here in Birmingham at the QE, the operation was successful (so not inoperable after all then Sir Professor?).

A consultant with a knighthood can get it dangerously wrong too.

http://nhsdeathrow.blogspot.co.uk/
Jill, I'm so sorry - words fail me. I'm not an over emotional person but times like this bring you crashing back down to earth and put a whole new perspective on what's important in life.

My heart goes out to you and yours.

Verdi

by lj 29.08.15 17:57

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
snook wrote:Apologies, I didn't re read and assumed cancer when I read stage 4.
I don't have unswerving faith in the medical profession, many of the drugs and treatments it pushes however I don't think it's right to read a few Google articles and think we can outsmart a professional who has reached consultant level. As for using the word telescope. When an endoscope is a type of telescope. Perhaps he uses it as some patients may not understand the technical words. Surely if he was such a goddam awful quack he'd have been out on his ear for all the death and disease he was wreaking?
I think Hobs is absolutely right to question him and do her own research.

As I said a few pages back a Sir Professor Peter Bell at Leicester Royal Infirmary diagnosed my husband with an inoperable aneursym and sent him home to die (to save money for the LRI) with less than 2 years to live and told me "not to allow him to get stressed". How do you stop a dying man from being stressed knowing his aneurysm could burst at any time?

I researched the whole world (almost having to sell our house to have the operation done in Chicago) and it took 18 months of those two years to fight the NHS to get him an operation here in Birmingham at the QE, the operation was successful (so not inoperable after all then Sir Professor?).

A consultant with a knighthood can get it dangerously wrong too.

http://nhsdeathrow.blogspot.co.uk/

I'm sorry Jill for you and your family. It must have been hell.

They should make it mandatory that, when a doctor gives up on a patient, he refers them for a second opinion.

The practice of medicine has become so complicated and so vast, you cannot expect anymore even for a specialist to know all there is on the market. You see more and more subspecialisms develop, but even then there might be developments that is not known to that doctor.

There is so much hurt and missed chances out there. The first thing a doctor should learn is that he/she does not know it all. It should be woven into the treatment that when the current treating specialist is out of options, a patient is automatically referred to another center. Even a criminal on deathrow gets automatic appeals.

by **Jill Havern** 29.08.15 18:16

Thank you all....but let's not forget this thread is about Hobs and her fight for her uncle. My story has been over for many years but I just wanted to let it be known that even the very top doctors get it dangerously 'wrong' - I don't believe for one minute that Sir Professor Bell got it wrong, he just wanted to save money and to reduce the waiting lists to meet government targets. It's not right at all. How many more people are dying and their families don't even realise the real reason why?

It was a terrible time in our lives - a race against the clock to get a life-saving operation which ruined our lives - and not something I would wish on anyone.

Hobs, if you think your doctor is wrong then please demand a second opinion.

What's the difference between God and a surgeon?

God doesn't think he's a surgeon.

by Guest 29.08.15 22:28

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
snook wrote:Apologies, I didn't re read and assumed cancer when I read stage 4.
I don't have unswerving faith in the medical profession, many of the drugs and treatments it pushes however I don't think it's right to read a few Google articles and think we can outsmart a professional who has reached consultant level. As for using the word telescope. When an endoscope is a type of telescope. Perhaps he uses it as some patients may not understand the technical words. Surely if he was such a goddam awful quack he'd have been out on his ear for all the death and disease he was wreaking?
I think Hobs is absolutely right to question him and do her own research.

As I said a few pages back a Sir Professor Peter Bell at Leicester Royal Infirmary diagnosed my husband with an inoperable aneursym and sent him home to die (to save money for the LRI) with less than 2 years to live and told me "not to allow him to get stressed". How do you stop a dying man from being stressed knowing his aneurysm could burst at any time?

I researched the whole world (almost having to sell our house to have the operation done in Chicago) and it took 18 months of those two years to fight the NHS to get him an operation here in Birmingham at the QE, the operation was successful (so not inoperable after all then Sir Professor?).

A consultant with a knighthood can get it dangerously wrong too.

http://nhsdeathrow.blogspot.co.uk/

Reading through the posts again, it seems to me there are two separate issues at stake here. From your own sad experience, correct me if I'm wrong, you are not suggesting professional incompetence per se but more governmental pressure preventing NHS hospitals from fulfilling their obligation to provide satisfactory health care the the public at large without political influence. The same public that elect a government to look after their interests and the same government that do anything rather than represent the electorate. In this respect who can blame you for researching alternatives to help a loved one but again in your particular case as I see it, you were fighting the system as opposed to specific medical staff. Professional negligence perhaps rather than incompetence.

Hobs on the other hand makes it apparent that she is far from satisfied with the professional conduct of a specific consultant. She opines that the consultant is incompetent, in which case as I previously suggested she should report him to the appropriate authorities. Here I have to agree with spooks, it's not a good idea as a lay-person, to go off googling a medical condition with a view to countering the diagnosis and treatment plan of a professional. I've had similar arguments with people in the past (relative to the case of MBM) who think because they've google researched subjects such as forensics and law, they think that makes them an authority with carte-blanche to expound without restraint.

I think you're most certainly right when you urge Hobs to seek a second (or third) opinion but I also think Hobs should make a complaint about the consultant if she feels she's in a good position to justify an accusation of incompetence and/or malpractice.

The NHS is very much in need of a massive overhaul, although I do wonder if perhaps it's too late to save it from inevitable destruction.

by **Hobs** 29.08.15 22:55

I come from a family that have a medical background, i have also worked in a hospital, in a vets and finally in research.

When i google information i start with the universities that do medical research and then using those progress to medical papers released by professionals relating to the area of interest of concern to me as well as the more generalised areas to do with renal failure, congestive heart failure etc
I was thown when he got a fungal infection of the liver as i had never heard of that.
Apprantly it is rare so consultants from all over the country were coming in to prod poke and discuss, it got even rarer when it turned out to have spread to his eyes.
This was a steep learning curve for everyone :)

The plus side is when the drs start using techy terms i know what the heck they are talking about, it also means when i read through my uncles notes i know what i am looking at and i can ask the right questions.

It is worth noting that when he was in icu the first time round, i and my 2 aunts knew what every single tube, machine, button and dial meant apart from one ( it was for his bowel movements as he was comatose)

It means also i know what i am looking at when i read through his notes and see the various marks, comments changes etc and, since uncle will lie through his teeth and minimise to get out of hospital, i can tell them what he is being deceptive about and chase them up on it.

This is also where statement analysis has its uses in that i know when someone is not being truthful and i will push till they tell the truth.

Regarding making an official complaint, this is on my to do list, i need to go through his more recent notes and compare them to all the discharges notes, blood results and all the other paperwork i have kept.