Another look at the Last photo
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Madeleine Beth McCann :: McCann Case: The most important areas of research
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
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3 missing pages and 5 blank pages... WHY? (43 other pages blank in total files)
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3 missing pages and 5 blank pages... WHY? (43 other pages blank in total files)
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
Didn't PeterMac do extensive work on this aspect many moons ago? I've had a quick search but can't find anything at present - will have another look when I have more time.HiDeHo wrote:I still have not found the details regarding the Cameras of Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Foster etc.
Here is one page I havent had chance to study
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NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
I believe these to be the black/white and greyscale photos
Outros Apensos Vol VIII
Page 553
Service Information
08 ? 05 ? 2007
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
From: Hugo Ferreira, Inspector
Subject: Annexing of photographic stills to the process files
I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files.igned
Inspector Hugo Ferreira
Outros Apensos Vol VIII
Page 553
Service Information
08 ? 05 ? 2007
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
From: Hugo Ferreira, Inspector
Subject: Annexing of photographic stills to the process files
I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files.igned
Inspector Hugo Ferreira
Re: Another look at the Last photo
I created this graphic using Peter's comments but I see he notes the photos are in the files for inspection. However the only photos I see are the black while ones and greyscale which seem to be attributed to the Tapas group as per the above post.
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
Was that the extent of PeterMac's work on the subject? If so I apologise, I thought he went into a lot more detail.
I recall his research was vehemently criticized outside this forum (nothing new there!) which I could only defend because PeterMac's interpretation of available information was in accord with my own. The argument against was an authorative (?) insistence that all the photographic equipment analysed by the Hampshire police belonged to the Foster family, my understanding was that the Fosters only volunteered video footage recorded in the PJ files as follows..
08-03-Other Exhibits 8 VOL 03 Page 541 542
Report on Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I can inform that photographs from a CD provided by Leicestershire police were visualised and analysed, these referred to photographs taken by the F***** family during their holidays at the OC between the 28th April and 5th May 2007.
Upon analysing these photos, the result was that there was at least one photograph where some of the elements making up the group of friends of the McCann couple were visualised, nothing relevant being found for the investigation.
Portimao, 23rd May 2007.
Inspector Ricardo Paiva
Incident History Records
8th May 2007: Email received from Leicestershire police
Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar. Mr and Mrs F are not technically competent to download the data. Please statement accordingly re exhibit continuity.
I have spoken to Mr F this morning and he has been advised that local officers will make contact with his wife.
If possible please send a copy to me for initial viewing in the Incident Room
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As can be seen, no mention of cameras, only video footage. I therefore conclude, as I think PeterMac did, that the two cameras submitted for analysis belonged to the McCanns or their friends, i.e. the grey scale/black and white images contained in the PJ files.
My only query here is why camera equipment and/or CDs, passed to the PJ by the McCann group in Portugal, would be sent to the UK for analysis but Leicestershire Constabulary's involvement in this case is forever a mystery to me.
I recall his research was vehemently criticized outside this forum (nothing new there!) which I could only defend because PeterMac's interpretation of available information was in accord with my own. The argument against was an authorative (?) insistence that all the photographic equipment analysed by the Hampshire police belonged to the Foster family, my understanding was that the Fosters only volunteered video footage recorded in the PJ files as follows..
08-03-Other Exhibits 8 VOL 03 Page 541 542
Report on Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I can inform that photographs from a CD provided by Leicestershire police were visualised and analysed, these referred to photographs taken by the F***** family during their holidays at the OC between the 28th April and 5th May 2007.
Upon analysing these photos, the result was that there was at least one photograph where some of the elements making up the group of friends of the McCann couple were visualised, nothing relevant being found for the investigation.
Portimao, 23rd May 2007.
Inspector Ricardo Paiva
Incident History Records
8th May 2007: Email received from Leicestershire police
Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar. Mr and Mrs F are not technically competent to download the data. Please statement accordingly re exhibit continuity.
I have spoken to Mr F this morning and he has been advised that local officers will make contact with his wife.
If possible please send a copy to me for initial viewing in the Incident Room
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As can be seen, no mention of cameras, only video footage. I therefore conclude, as I think PeterMac did, that the two cameras submitted for analysis belonged to the McCanns or their friends, i.e. the grey scale/black and white images contained in the PJ files.
My only query here is why camera equipment and/or CDs, passed to the PJ by the McCann group in Portugal, would be sent to the UK for analysis but Leicestershire Constabulary's involvement in this case is forever a mystery to me.
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
Peter did lots of work on the subject but I still maintain that the black white pics refer to this
Outros Apensos Vol VIII
Page 553
Service Information
08 ? 05 ? 2007
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
From: Hugo Ferreira, Inspector
Subject: Annexing of photographic stills to the process files
I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files.igned
Inspector Hugo Ferreira
As opposed to being Gerry McCanns pics. Why would anyone think that the McCanns camera would be taking shots of the Paynes, their children and Dianne Webster and the Paraiso?
Outros Apensos Vol VIII
Page 553
Service Information
08 ? 05 ? 2007
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
From: Hugo Ferreira, Inspector
Subject: Annexing of photographic stills to the process files
I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files.igned
Inspector Hugo Ferreira
As opposed to being Gerry McCanns pics. Why would anyone think that the McCanns camera would be taking shots of the Paynes, their children and Dianne Webster and the Paraiso?
Re: Another look at the Last photo
I think if someone can contact Amaral and he has access to the colour versions (you never know) there might be some fruitful avenues to explore there with the research that has been done since.
Or he can speak to his mates.
Imagine the rogatory interviews.... "and when was this taken?"
Or he can speak to his mates.
Imagine the rogatory interviews.... "and when was this taken?"
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
It wasn't only the McCanns camera though was it - indeed this is somewhat like the saga of the mobile phones, who had what when where and why.HiDeHo wrote:As opposed to being Gerry McCanns pics. Why would anyone think that the McCanns camera would be taking shots of the Paynes, their children and Dianne Webster and the Paraiso?
The CD's in the possession of the PJ (the greyscale/black and white images) were, according to the PJ files, handed over by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright - now what exactly did any of this have to do with Michael Wright? He wasn't on holiday with them, nor was his partner Michelle who Kate McCann was so eager to contact in the middle of the night and who promptly rushed to Portugal to lend a helping hand. I repeat..
Other Proceedings Vol VIII
Page 550
NUIPC 201 / 07.0 GALGS
Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I state que the photographs contained on the CD delivered to this police force by Michael Wright, the relation of the McCann couple, Relating to the holiday period que the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.
The visualization and analysis of These images que was carried in October Reveals que there are Several photographs of interest to the investigation, in Which it is possible to visualize Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children que made up the group of friends who Were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, Which is why These photographs, joined to the report, Were printed.
Portimao, 09 May 2007
Signed by Inspector Ricardo Paiva
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Having said all that, I don't think this leads anywhere other than confirmation of the absence of photographs of Madeleine McCann other than those taken at the Ocean Club playground area (most likely taken on their day of arrival) and the scarcity of holiday photographs of the McCann family and their group of friends. Not forgetting the question why was the poolside and peculiar tennis court photograph missing from the data provided?
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
Yeah .. well no, err mmm, not sure but .. erm, well it could have been you know erm .. no that was when Jane was playing tennis at the you know Tapas with err .. no, that werent it cos I was at the beach you know with Rus .. you know, when he fell in the water [laughs] .. mmm now let me think..BlueBag wrote:Imagine the rogatory interviews.... "and when was this taken?"
Take your time..
Yeah its hard you know after all this time - any chance I can see my other statements [laughs] .. no but I cant you know quite put my finger on when. It could have been err mmm .. no I dont think that was it - I remember it was raining you know cos Fiona had her wellies and souwester on - and very fetching she looked [laughs] - she was chatting - you know like -to some man she met but he didn't look like a tourist - so no it wasn't then.. mmm let me think again .. I'm trying very hard here you know .. mmm ..
Tell me - what was the question again?
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
I think there are THREE still cameras involved:
1 The McCanns Canon Powershot
2 The Paynes' camera - make unknown (deduced from the number of shots featuring the Paynes)
3 The Olympus of Nigel Foster which he handed in at Hampshire Police in early May, and which either Leics Police or the PJ said 'contained nothing of interest'.
If both Michael Wright and Alex Woolfall clicked the 'greyscale' option, and not the 'colour' option, when transferring the edited and cropped mages on to their two disks, that would be wholly consistent with an intention to disinform rather than to inform
1 The McCanns Canon Powershot
2 The Paynes' camera - make unknown (deduced from the number of shots featuring the Paynes)
3 The Olympus of Nigel Foster which he handed in at Hampshire Police in early May, and which either Leics Police or the PJ said 'contained nothing of interest'.
If both Michael Wright and Alex Woolfall clicked the 'greyscale' option, and not the 'colour' option, when transferring the edited and cropped mages on to their two disks, that would be wholly consistent with an intention to disinform rather than to inform
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Investigator
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
If I'm mistaken about the Foster equipment then I stand corrected - I don't recall reading anything to confirm that they handed over a camera. Leaving the Fosters aside for the moment, as I believe they were only trying to help the investigation, there is one simple factor that can't be dismissed. The PJ required all the photographs taken by the McCanns and their group of friends during the week of their holiday. The most logical way would have been for all the group to immediately hand over their cameras, or failing that to hand over whatever storage device straight from the camera - but they didn't did they. No, instead they take it upon themselves to transfer carefully selected photographs from two or more cameras onto CDs to pass to the PJ. Now why would they do that? |
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
Verdi wrote:
If I'm mistaken about the Foster equipment then I stand corrected - I don't recall reading anything to confirm that they handed over a camera. Leaving the Fosters aside for the moment, as I believe they were only trying to help the investigation, there is one simple factor that can't be dismissed.
The PJ required all the photographs taken by the McCanns and their group of friends during the week of their holiday. The most logical way would have been for all the group to immediately hand over their cameras, or failing that to hand over whatever storage device straight from the camera - but they didn't did they. No, instead they take it upon themselves to transfer carefully selected photographs from two or more cameras onto CDs to pass to the PJ.
Now why would they do that?
I said similar yesterday [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It's a very interesting question, because I believe that is what most people would do if asked by the police.
The lack of photos of Madeleine with her family during this holiday is very disconcerting. Where are the photos of her with her brother and sister, or with the other children, or with her mother. This is a main reason why people with kids have cameras, isn't it?
Seems strange that Kate runs off for a camera to catch the Tennis Balls pic, (or did she) but can't take any photos while they're all together as a family unit in the apartment.
Too weird!
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
Could someone enlighten me please. I am getting confused. It all seems normal to me. If anyone is in disagreement I would like to understand why...
This is how I perceive it:
Photos were received from McCanns friends. I believe these are the B/W pictures and greyscale.
B/W were copied on to a file page (similar to many other photos in files) and some were scanned to produce the greyscale pics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry delivered a CD. Michael Wright delivered a CD
A CD was delivered by Gerry McCann on May 9th
Location of these photos unknown
A CD was delivered by Michael Wright on May 9th
Location of these photos unknown
On May 9th Stuart Martin opened a sealed bag contaning two memory cards The 64 MB was in the Olympus C50 camera and the 32 MB memory card was in a holder.
He located 43 photos and put them on a compact disk SWM/3019/44
He made a report of the photos SWM3019/45
He located 73 picture files in unallocated clusters which had been deleted and no longer accessible to camera user.
23. When the data is extracted from the unallocated clusters there are not imes and dates or file names attributed to the data. My forensic software therefore saved the data in file format and named the files according to the location of the data within the unallocated clusters.
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Hugo Ferreira says Photographic stills from the group were given to them on May 8th
Are these the b/w greyscale photos?
On May 8th an officer was asked to visit Foster family to retrieve video footage
Location of these footage unknown
Original from Files in English
May 23rd Report on visualisation and analysis of Foster photographs
Location of these photos unknown
This is how I perceive it:
Photos were received from McCanns friends. I believe these are the B/W pictures and greyscale.
B/W were copied on to a file page (similar to many other photos in files) and some were scanned to produce the greyscale pics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerry delivered a CD. Michael Wright delivered a CD
A CD was delivered by Gerry McCann on May 9th
Location of these photos unknown
- CLICK TO OPEN -A CD was delivered by Gerry McCann on May 9th:
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A CD was delivered by Michael Wright on May 9th
Location of these photos unknown
- CLICK TO OPEN - A CD was delivered by Michael Wright on May 9th:
- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
On May 9th Stuart Martin opened a sealed bag contaning two memory cards The 64 MB was in the Olympus C50 camera and the 32 MB memory card was in a holder.
He located 43 photos and put them on a compact disk SWM/3019/44
He made a report of the photos SWM3019/45
He located 73 picture files in unallocated clusters which had been deleted and no longer accessible to camera user.
23. When the data is extracted from the unallocated clusters there are not imes and dates or file names attributed to the data. My forensic software therefore saved the data in file format and named the files according to the location of the data within the unallocated clusters.
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Hugo Ferreira says Photographic stills from the group were given to them on May 8th
Are these the b/w greyscale photos?
- CLICK TO OPEN - Hugo Ferreira says Photographic stills from the group were given to them on May 8th:
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On May 8th an officer was asked to visit Foster family to retrieve video footage
Location of these footage unknown
- CLICK TO OPEN - On May 8th an officer was asked to visit Foster family to retrieve video footage:
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Original from Files in English
- CLICK TO OPEN - Original from Files in English:
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May 23rd Report on visualisation and analysis of Foster photographs
Location of these photos unknown
- CLICK T OPEN - May 23rd Report on visualisation and analysis of Foster photographs:
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
Tony Bennett wrote:I think there are THREE still cameras involved:
1 The McCanns Canon Powershot
2 The Paynes' camera - make unknown (deduced from the number of shots featuring the Paynes)
3 The Olympus of Nigel Foster which he handed in at Hampshire Police in early May, and which either Leics Police or the PJ said 'contained nothing of interest'.
If both Michael Wright and Alex Woolfall clicked the 'greyscale' option, and not the 'colour' option, when transferring the edited and cropped mages on to their two disks, that would be wholly consistent with an intention to disinform rather than to inform
The camera analysed by the police was the Olympus C50 and although there is no record of when the camera was passed to them, Stuart Martin opened a sealed bag with the camera inside. Likely belonging to Fosters.
He retrieved 60MB card FROM the camera and a 32 MB card in a holder.
He retrieved 43 pic and 73 deleted photos.
Fosters video (they were visited at home) or any of their photos dont appear to be available in the files. The video was passed to Hampshire Police Support headquarters, Netley for examination by Stuart Martin
------
We dont know how many cameras were involved regarding the B/W photos.
English Family Photos wrote:08 ? 05 ? 2007
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
From: Hugo Ferreira, Inspector
Subject: Annexing of photographic stills to the process files
I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files.igned
Inspector Hugo Ferreira
Regarding the tampering, I have always thought they were reduced in quality by photocopying to add three to a page for files release is the likely explanation of the B/W photos which appear to be the photos referred to as belonging to the English families.
Re: Another look at the Last photo
I see that I may be wrong here...
The Sony videocam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag and likey ALL from the Fosters.
This means that the 43 photos and the 73 photos in unallocated clusters would belong to Fosters...
I apologise. I have always been under the impression that Gerry's camera was an Olympus C50.
Which leads me to my next question.
Do we know the camera that Gerry used?
(I have tried to edit my incorrect posts above. Please let me know if there are any portions I missed ) :)
The Sony videocam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag and likey ALL from the Fosters.
This means that the 43 photos and the 73 photos in unallocated clusters would belong to Fosters...
I apologise. I have always been under the impression that Gerry's camera was an Olympus C50.
Which leads me to my next question.
Do we know the camera that Gerry used?
(I have tried to edit my incorrect posts above. Please let me know if there are any portions I missed ) :)
Re: Another look at the Last photo
@ HideHo I don't think we have any evidence at all that Gerry had a camera of his own on that holidayHiDeHo wrote:I see that I may be wrong here...
The Sony videocam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag and likey ALL from the Fosters.
This means that the 43 photos and the 73 photos in unallocated clusters would belong to Fosters...
I apologise. I have always been under the impression that Gerry's camera was an Olympus C50.
Which leads me to my next question.
So do we know the camera that Gerry used?
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
I remember a quote, probably from Gerry himself,f saying that it was Kate who was the photographer in the family as he had little interest in this.
David Payne on the other hand, was a very keen photographer who always had a camera to hand
David Payne on the other hand, was a very keen photographer who always had a camera to hand
Re: Another look at the Last photo
Tony Bennett wrote:@ HideHo I don't think we have any evidence at all that Gerry had a camera of his own on that holidayHiDeHo wrote:I see that I may be wrong here...
The Sony videocam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag and likey ALL from the Fosters.
This means that the 43 photos and the 73 photos in unallocated clusters would belong to Fosters...
I apologise. I have always been under the impression that Gerry's camera was an Olympus C50.
Which leads me to my next question.
So do we know the camera that Gerry used?
Thanks Tony. It just goes to show you how discussions and checking the files helps to get to the truth.
I have always been of the belief that the last picture was taken on the Canon which Kate was looking at while Gerry was claiming to have given his to the police...
I obviously read it incorrectly ... maybe I didn't. The reason I realised I was wrong was because after compiling all the file info I realised that the Sony handicam and the Olympus C50 were delivered in the same bag after the visit to the Fosters.
Gerry and Michael Wright delivered CDs. Hence I realised my mistake.
But this does not agree with it...
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
To recapitulate.HiDeHo wrote:Could someone enlighten me please. I am getting confused. It all seems normal to me. If anyone is in disagreement I would like to understand why...
On 8th May 2007 Inspector Hugo Ferreira wrote to the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation, I quote..
"I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files."
On 9th May 2007 Ricardo Paiva wrote the following report..
Visualization and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Gerald McCann have been visualized and analyzed some of them are from the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.
The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann.
and on the same date..
Visualization and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Michael Wright, a relation of the McCann couple, relating to the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.
The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that here are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, which is why these photographs, joined to the report, were printed.
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A paper trail I venture to suggest. The CDs initially passed through the office of Hugo Ferreira on 8th May and were then passed on for visualization and analysation, as recorded by Ricardo Paiva, on 9th May 2007? In short one and the same collection of photographs? I can't think of a single logical reason why the PJ would double up on a single aspect of the investigation.
Just a thought.
Moving on to the Fosters - the equipment received by Hampshire Constabulary for forensic examination was delivered by Leicestershire Constabulary, the UK case coordinators at the time. I see no reason to assume that the one package only contained the Fosters photographs/equipment. Looking at it from another angle - an officer from Hampshire police was visiting the Foster home to download footage onto a CD as they were not technically competent so, why would they send a camera and/or memory card to Leicestershire police only for them to send it back to Hampshire for analysis, when an officer was going to the Foster home anyway - the Fosters being resident in Hampshire?
In both cases the dates coincide - the 8th and 9th May 2007. Is this to be presumed yet another coincidence to be brushed aside?
Just a thought.
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
Verdi:
'Moving on to the Fosters - the equipment received by Hampshire Constabulary for forensic examination was delivered by Leicestershire Constabulary, the UK case coordinators at the time.'
I think this is incorrect and will only confuse people, especially as you seem to go on to suggest that the camera was bobbing backwards and forwards between Leicester and Southampton which I don't think was ever the case.
Leicester police requested Southampton police, at lunchtime on 8th May, to visit the Fosters:
'Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar. Mr and Mrs F are not technically competent to download the data. Please statement accordingly re exhibit continuity.
I have spoken to Mr F this morning and he has been advised that local officers will make contact with his wife.
If possible please send a copy to me for initial viewing in the Incident Room'
DC Martin’s statement said:
'2. On 8th May at 21.00 hours, the following was delivered to my home address by PC 178 Barham, requesting they be examined to establish if they contained pictures and video footage of a hotel complex in Praia da Luz.'
and I don’t think it was ever established who PC178 Barham actually was, and where he appeared from, but I may be wrong.
It would seem most likely that he was the local copper who had been sent round to the Foster’s house to collect the video footage, discovered they had some camera shots as well and so took the whole lot for examination.
As requested, copies of the photos/videos were then sent to Leicester for examination and these were duly forwarded to Inspector Paiva on 23rd May, but apparently showing nothing of relevance:
Upon analysing these photos, the result was that there was at least one photograph where some of the elements making up the group of friends of the McCann couple were visualised, nothing relevant being found for the investigation.' - Insp. R. Paiva.
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'Moving on to the Fosters - the equipment received by Hampshire Constabulary for forensic examination was delivered by Leicestershire Constabulary, the UK case coordinators at the time.'
I think this is incorrect and will only confuse people, especially as you seem to go on to suggest that the camera was bobbing backwards and forwards between Leicester and Southampton which I don't think was ever the case.
Leicester police requested Southampton police, at lunchtime on 8th May, to visit the Fosters:
'Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar. Mr and Mrs F are not technically competent to download the data. Please statement accordingly re exhibit continuity.
I have spoken to Mr F this morning and he has been advised that local officers will make contact with his wife.
If possible please send a copy to me for initial viewing in the Incident Room'
DC Martin’s statement said:
'2. On 8th May at 21.00 hours, the following was delivered to my home address by PC 178 Barham, requesting they be examined to establish if they contained pictures and video footage of a hotel complex in Praia da Luz.'
and I don’t think it was ever established who PC178 Barham actually was, and where he appeared from, but I may be wrong.
It would seem most likely that he was the local copper who had been sent round to the Foster’s house to collect the video footage, discovered they had some camera shots as well and so took the whole lot for examination.
As requested, copies of the photos/videos were then sent to Leicester for examination and these were duly forwarded to Inspector Paiva on 23rd May, but apparently showing nothing of relevance:
Upon analysing these photos, the result was that there was at least one photograph where some of the elements making up the group of friends of the McCann couple were visualised, nothing relevant being found for the investigation.' - Insp. R. Paiva.
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Doug D- Posts : 3719
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
+1Nina, thank youNina wrote:Just having a read of the link Lizzy and this hit me, not sure why because it all requires further investigation and I am a large sheet of paper and a pencil type of researcher and not got chance right now, but the dats mention, or lack of did make me goHiDeHo wrote:Does anyone else believe the Black/White pics and the greyscale are likely from Paynes camera?
All of them with originals in 'drawers' and scanned or photocopied for release of file pages.
I still have not found the details regarding the Cameras of Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Foster etc.
Here is one page I havent had chance to study
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NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
13. On checking the camera I found that the time and date was not set on the camera and it was recording the time and date as 0000 hours on 01/01/02. This did not change during the examination. None of the pictures SWM/3019/01 to SWM/3019/43 have any created dates recorded. The last written time and date for each of them is recorded as 0000 01/01/02.
14. Last Accessed represents the date the file as last examined. Whether the Last Accessed Date is triggered depends on the nature of the examination. Opening a file will trigger the Last Accessed Date, as will looking at the file properties and browsing the file structure with Windows Explorer. Examining a file on 'write protected media' such as a floppy disk will not trigger this date, neither will examining a file on a compact disk or DVD.
15. Last Written represents the time and date that the contents of the file was last changed. The Last Written date and time is unchanged by the process of copying a file from one drive to another.
16. The creation date and time of the file is usually when it is written to the surface of the disk, subject to the accuracy of the computer clock that was used to perform this task. When this date and time is seen to be after the last written date and time it shows that the files has been transferred from another media.
sar- Posts : 1335
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
HiDeHo wrote:Does anyone else believe the Black/White pics and the greyscale are likely from Paynes camera?
All of them with originals in 'drawers' and scanned or photocopied for release of file pages.
I still have not found the details regarding the Cameras of Gerry McCann, Michael Wright and Foster etc.
Here is one page I havent had chance to study
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NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50
Hi Hdh,
Who did the Sony Handicam belong to, what footage video or still/s did it take and to whom was it passed over to? Sorry if I am going over old ground. It's late and I'm tired xx
sar- Posts : 1335
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
sar wrote:
Hi Hdh,
Who did the Sony Handicam belong to, what footage video or still/s did it take and to whom was it passed over to? Sorry if I am going over old ground. It's late and I'm tired xx
@ Sar
The Sony Handicam belongs to Nigel Foster, IMO that's the camera featuring a 30 second clip taken in the vicinity of the hotel complex, playground area/pool area/Tapas bar etc etc.
DC Martin:
On 8th May at 21.00 hours, the following was delivered to my home address by PC 178 Barham, requesting they be examined to establish if they contained pictures and video footage of a hotel complex in Praia da Luz.
ID ref Description
NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
In an email sent to the PJ from Leicestershire Police, there's no mention whatsoever that Nigel Foster owned the Olympus C50 camera, let alone took pictures on it. Nigel Foster only indicated that he had a 30 second video clip taken on the Sony Handicam.
Here's an image of a Sony Handicam:
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Leicestershire Police:
Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar.
I wonder why Leicestershire Police even bothered sending that email to the Portuguese Police as they didn't even bother sending them a copy of the 30 second video clip.
They only sent the PJ photographs on a CD from the Olympus C50, and it's unclear who this camera belongs to.
DC Martin:
I examined the data from the two cards and located 43 pictures in the live area of the two cards.
Again no mention of locating a video clip stored one of the two memory cards, only 43 pictures.
IMO Ricardo Paiva assumed the photographs were taken by the Fosters on the Olympus C50 only because of the email the PJ recieved from Leicestershire Police about the video footage
Here's an image of a Olympus C50:
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Although the Olympus C50 is a digital camera, you can use it to record video clips. However you can only record a 16 second video clip in HQ-mode (320x240) and a 70 second clip in SQ-mode (160x120). On the Olympus website it states that you can only store video clips totalling 114 secs (1.9 mins) in HQ-mode (320x240) and video clips totalling 453 sec (7.55 mins) in SQ-mode (160x120) on the 32mb memory card. It also enables you to store videos clips totalling 227 sec (3.78 mins) in HQ-mode (320x240) and video clips totalling 908 secs (15.1 mins) [size=13]in SQ-mode (160x120) on the 64mb memory card.[/size] If you can only store a maximum of 7.55 mins video footage on the 32mb memory card and 15.1 mins on the 64mb memory card, then this camera isn't exactly ideal for recording a weeks worth of video footage (28th Apr -5 May) on it is it?
It's unclear whether you can even record a video clip with sound on this camera.
Is sound recording available on the C-50 Zoom?
No, sound recording is not available on the C-50 Zoom camera. The camera does not have a built-in microphone.
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Anyway the two memory cards already had 43 photographs stored on them, reducing the maximum amount of video footage (7.55 mins on the 32mb memory card and 15.1 mins on the 64mb card) you'd be able to store on those memory cards even further.
I do believe the Sony Handicam belongs to Nigel Foster, but I'm not convinced the Olympus C50 also belongs to him.
Spacecowboy- Posts : 37
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
I think there is a pretty good chance that the Olympus C50 belonged to the Fosters, otherwise there is no reason for the local Southampton expert, DC Martin to have even received it and Leicester would have dealt with it themselves.
The timescale for DC Martin’s inspection makes perfect sense, with the Leicester Police request to Southampton timed at 13.58 on 8th May.
PC 178 Barham then appears to have hot-footed it round to the Fosters to pick up the video footage as requested (and this is the assumption) presumably identified that they also had taken some camera footage on the Olympus C50, so he took the camera and memory cards as well.
He then delivered them to DC Martin at 21.00 on 8th May, which again makes sense due to the urgency of the request.
At 8.30 on 9th May DC Martin delivered the video camera (and presumably the tapes as he did not examine these) to the imaging unit at Hampshire Police Support, Netley, for examination.
He then examined the camera cards and made his statement, again dated 9th May.
Logically, but not evidenced, as Southampton had pulled out all the stops to carry out Leicester’s request, the copies and his statement would have been sent to Leicester post-haste.
It makes no sense for them to sit on them, having acted so efficiently.
We do not know about the video footage, which may have taken a bit longer, but as they were not doing anything with it, just copying the footage there is no reason that it should have done.
What does not make sense is Inspector Paiva’s statement being dated 23rd May, which states this is the day the photos were examined, and then dismissed as irrelevant.
Why did it apparently take Leicester Police two weeks to get them out to Portugal, when everyone else had acted so swiftly and more importantly, were they exactly as copied by the Southampton Police or were they perhaps edited?
If Leicester looked at them and felt them to be irrelevant, why even send them out there?
Inspector Paiva was in Leicester on 15th May according to GA, so why was he not shown this potentially vital evidence then?
The timescale for DC Martin’s inspection makes perfect sense, with the Leicester Police request to Southampton timed at 13.58 on 8th May.
PC 178 Barham then appears to have hot-footed it round to the Fosters to pick up the video footage as requested (and this is the assumption) presumably identified that they also had taken some camera footage on the Olympus C50, so he took the camera and memory cards as well.
He then delivered them to DC Martin at 21.00 on 8th May, which again makes sense due to the urgency of the request.
At 8.30 on 9th May DC Martin delivered the video camera (and presumably the tapes as he did not examine these) to the imaging unit at Hampshire Police Support, Netley, for examination.
He then examined the camera cards and made his statement, again dated 9th May.
Logically, but not evidenced, as Southampton had pulled out all the stops to carry out Leicester’s request, the copies and his statement would have been sent to Leicester post-haste.
It makes no sense for them to sit on them, having acted so efficiently.
We do not know about the video footage, which may have taken a bit longer, but as they were not doing anything with it, just copying the footage there is no reason that it should have done.
What does not make sense is Inspector Paiva’s statement being dated 23rd May, which states this is the day the photos were examined, and then dismissed as irrelevant.
Why did it apparently take Leicester Police two weeks to get them out to Portugal, when everyone else had acted so swiftly and more importantly, were they exactly as copied by the Southampton Police or were they perhaps edited?
If Leicester looked at them and felt them to be irrelevant, why even send them out there?
Inspector Paiva was in Leicester on 15th May according to GA, so why was he not shown this potentially vital evidence then?
Doug D- Posts : 3719
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
If I may revert to the witness statement of Stuart William Martin, taken on 9th May 2007. This particular aspect has been omitted from more recent discussion [snipped]..
1. I am employed by Hampshire Constabulary as a Detective Constable and am currently stationed in the Hi-Tech Crime Unit. I hold a Batchelor of Mechanical Engineering and Management degree from Liverpool university
2. On 8th May at 21.00 hours, the following was delivered to my home address by PC 178 Barham, requesting they be examined to establish if they contained pictures and video footage of a hotel complex in Praia da Luz.
ID ref Description
NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
3. Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07 (NALF 1)
On 9th May 2007 at 08.30 I delivered this video camera in the sealed bag number CD 48113 to the imaging unit at Hampshire Police Support headquarters, Netley for examination. I conducted no examination of this bag and contents.
4. 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07 (NALF 2) and 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07- 5/5/07 (NALF 3).
On 9th May 2007 I commenced my examination of a sealed plastic bag seal number CD48115 with two exhibit labels attached marked 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07 (NALF 2) and 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07 (NALF 3).
5. This bag contained a power lead and cable, a black camera case which contained an Olympus C50 camera and a memory cad holder which contained one card.
---------
I'll stop there so as to avoid overload.
1. I am employed by Hampshire Constabulary as a Detective Constable and am currently stationed in the Hi-Tech Crime Unit. I hold a Batchelor of Mechanical Engineering and Management degree from Liverpool university
2. On 8th May at 21.00 hours, the following was delivered to my home address by PC 178 Barham, requesting they be examined to establish if they contained pictures and video footage of a hotel complex in Praia da Luz.
ID ref Description
NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
3. Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07 (NALF 1)
On 9th May 2007 at 08.30 I delivered this video camera in the sealed bag number CD 48113 to the imaging unit at Hampshire Police Support headquarters, Netley for examination. I conducted no examination of this bag and contents.
4. 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07 (NALF 2) and 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07- 5/5/07 (NALF 3).
On 9th May 2007 I commenced my examination of a sealed plastic bag seal number CD48115 with two exhibit labels attached marked 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07 (NALF 2) and 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07 (NALF 3).
5. This bag contained a power lead and cable, a black camera case which contained an Olympus C50 camera and a memory cad holder which contained one card.
---------
I'll stop there so as to avoid overload.
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
Incident History Records
8th May 2007
Email received from Leicestershire police
Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar. Mr and Mrs F are not technically competent to download the data. Please statement accordingly re exhibit continuity.
I have spoken to Mr F this morning and he has been advised that local officers will make contact with his wife.
If possible please send a copy to me for initial viewing in the Incident Room
-----------
Report on Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I can inform that photographs from a CD provided by Leicestershire police were visualised and analysed, these referred to photographs taken by the F***** family during their holidays at the OC between the 28th April and 5th May 2007.
Upon analysing these photos, the result was that there was at least one photograph where some of the elements making up the group of friends of the McCann couple were visualised, nothing relevant being found for the investigation.
Portimao, 23rd May 2007.
Inspector Ricardo Paiva
----------
@DougD - Of course PC Barham was just the messenger, I don't think there's any need to put him under the microscope. Leicestershire Constabulary were assigned case coordinators in the UK, I therefore think it safe to assume that the Olympus equipment analyzed by Martin in Hampshire originated directly or indirectly from Leicestershire.
My choice of word was perhaps misleading - I didn't mean Leicestershire Constabulary personally 'delivered' the sealed packages. Semantics pure and simple.
Still no explanation as to why the 'last photograph' and the curious 'tennis court' photograph were not included in the photographs given to the PJ.
8th May 2007
Email received from Leicestershire police
Would you kindly permit an officer to visit Mrs F*****?. She has recently been on holiday to the MW complex and is in possession of video footage taken by her husband. It is understood that the footage is currently contained on their home computer. The allocated officer will need to review the footage and all footage of the complex should be downloaded onto a suitable storage disc. Mr F**** has indicated that it probably only consists of a thirty second pan of the playground area/pool area/Tapas bar. Mr and Mrs F are not technically competent to download the data. Please statement accordingly re exhibit continuity.
I have spoken to Mr F this morning and he has been advised that local officers will make contact with his wife.
If possible please send a copy to me for initial viewing in the Incident Room
-----------
Report on Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs
On this date, I can inform that photographs from a CD provided by Leicestershire police were visualised and analysed, these referred to photographs taken by the F***** family during their holidays at the OC between the 28th April and 5th May 2007.
Upon analysing these photos, the result was that there was at least one photograph where some of the elements making up the group of friends of the McCann couple were visualised, nothing relevant being found for the investigation.
Portimao, 23rd May 2007.
Inspector Ricardo Paiva
----------
@DougD - Of course PC Barham was just the messenger, I don't think there's any need to put him under the microscope. Leicestershire Constabulary were assigned case coordinators in the UK, I therefore think it safe to assume that the Olympus equipment analyzed by Martin in Hampshire originated directly or indirectly from Leicestershire.
My choice of word was perhaps misleading - I didn't mean Leicestershire Constabulary personally 'delivered' the sealed packages. Semantics pure and simple.
Still no explanation as to why the 'last photograph' and the curious 'tennis court' photograph were not included in the photographs given to the PJ.
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
Still no explanation as to why the 'last photograph' and the curious 'tennis court' photograph were not included in the photographs given to the PJ.
Because they were already widely available?
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]BlueBag wrote:Because they were already widely available?Still no explanation as to why the 'last photograph' and the curious 'tennis court' photograph were not included in the photographs given to the PJ.
The 'Last Photo' wasn't released until Thursday 24 May, two days after Gerry McCann's return from his England trip (20 to 22 May) and Philomena McCann's arrival in Praia da Luz the same day.
According to this video:
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...the Tennis Balls Photo was released on 7 or 8 May.
The maker of that video says that the photo was 'created on 5 May' (i.e. after Madeleine was reported missing) and she adds what I assume are the EXIF data.
Others suggest that the photo was 'amended' for publication on 5 May but was taken earlier.
Not being a 'tecchie', I have no idea which is right.
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Investigator
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Re: Another look at the Last photo
You're right Tony.
Sorry I forgot pool picture was 24th May.
Yes, why wasn't it on the CD?
Should have been one of the PJ questions.
Sorry I forgot pool picture was 24th May.
Yes, why wasn't it on the CD?
Should have been one of the PJ questions.
Guest- Guest
Re: Another look at the Last photo
Ah - maybe not widely available as in the public eye but it could well have been included in the dossier of Madeleine photographs held by close friend Jon Corner. The dossier that was ready and waiting for action on Friday 4th May 2007 - apparently.BlueBag wrote:You're right Tony.
Sorry I forgot pool picture was 24th May.
Yes, why wasn't it on the CD?
Should have been one of the PJ questions.
I'm not convinced by Kate McCann's claim about what she was doing whilst her husband was upstairs being grilled by the PJ on 10th May 2007. I quote.. "I made use of the long wait I anticipated by sitting down with a notebook, pen and my camera, containing dated photographs of the holiday, and trying to write a detailed account of everything that had happened the week before."
Seven days after losing her precious little child, that she thought had ben snatched by a paedophile, she would still be prostrated by grief - surely?
Although it's interesting to note her words 'containing dated photographs of the holiday' - why mention that, it's of no interest to the reader.
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Madeleine Beth McCann :: McCann Case: The most important areas of research
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