Sunday Mirror

by Guest 23.03.14 6:25

Madeleine McCann police hunt two Eastern European bogus charity workers who targeted Algarve holiday homes

The “significant development” regarding men in their 50s with heavy builds came hours after a new appeal on Crimewatch last Wednesday

olice hunting for Madeleine McCann have been given vital new clues about two bogus charity workers operating in the resort when the tot went missing.

The “significant development” came hours after a new appeal on Crimewatch last Wednesday.

British officers were given fresh details about the conmen now believed to be Eastern European rather than Portuguese as originally thought.

They were told both were in their 50s with heavy builds. The men, claiming to be fundraisers for disabled children, were seen knocking on doors of apartments in Praia da Luz where the three-year-old went missing in 2007.

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Unbelievable, aren't these in the files?

by SixMillionQuid 23.03.14 7:10

There's the Gail Cooper stuff

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by Guest 23.03.14 7:26

SixMillionQuid wrote:There's the Gail Cooper stuff

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Yes, and just found Denise Beryl Ashton statement regarding charity workers.

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by Guest 23.03.14 8:49

SixMillionQuid wrote:There's the Gail Cooper stuff

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But no e-fit drawn up of these men at the time. No leaflet kept either. And in Denise Aston's statement, a brochure which was handed over but taken back.. sad

by Guest 23.03.14 10:03

Bogus charity collectors hunted by Madeleine police
Last updated Sun 15 Dec 2013

E-fits have also been issued of two Portuguese men who police suspect of posing as charity collectors in Praia da Luz around the time Madeleine McCann was abducted.

Bogus collectors targeted properties in the area on at least four occasions on the day the three-year-old was abducted, Scotland Yard has said.

One man, aged 40 to 45, knocked on the door of the apartment where the McCanns were to stay on April 25 or 26 between 2.30pm and 3pm, saying that he was a charity collector.

The other, aged 25 to 30, approached a property on the Rua do Ramalhete, near the Ocean Club, at around 4pm on May 3, hours before Madeleine McCann disappeared.

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Rehash of an old story, only now British Officers believe the conmen are Eastern European rather than Potuguese as originally thought.

Whose the source, the PJ Files?

AR said they wouldn't be giving a running commentary, fair enough, so if it's a significant development why don't they keep the public informed on their website.

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Instead of leaving it to the Spin of MSM

IMO, they are trying to take it as far away as possible from the crime scene of 5A and all the evidence that points to the guilty ones.

by Mirage 23.03.14 10:16

When people peruse the newspaper stands this morning they will be met with another perplexing batch of suspects. I suggest these people save their money, go home and leave the dysfunctional world of British policing and press behind.

People! Try tuning in here. By comparison you will be breathing pure mountain air.
So get your croissants heated and your coffee machines on and welcome to the real world. welcome

by Okeydokey 23.03.14 10:44

Mirage wrote:When people peruse the newspaper stands this morning they will be met with another perplexing batch of suspects. I suggest these people save their money, go home and leave the dysfunctional world of British policing and press behind.

People! Try tuning in here. By comparison you will be breathing pure mountain air.
So get your croissants heated and your coffee machines on and welcome to the real world.

How very true - and how very sad,that we can't rely on our press or our police!

by Guest 23.03.14 10:49

Okeydokey wrote:

How very true - and how very sad,that we can't rely on our press or our police!

At least now we know that we can't. Which is progress, of sorts.

by Guest 23.03.14 10:51

Mirage wrote:When people peruse the newspaper stands this morning they will be met with another perplexing batch of suspects. I suggest these people save their money, go home and leave the dysfunctional world of British policing and press behind.

People! Try tuning in here. By comparison you will be breathing pure mountain air.
So get your croissants heated and your coffee machines on and welcome to the real world.

Well said Mirage

by SixMillionQuid 23.03.14 11:35

Cherry Blossom wrote:
One man, aged 40 to 45, knocked on the door of the apartment where the McCanns were to stay on April 25 or 26 between 2.30pm and 3pm, saying that he was a charity collector.

The other, aged 25 to 30, approached a property on the Rua do Ramalhete, near the Ocean Club, at around 4pm on May 3, hours before Madeleine McCann disappeared.

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Rehash of an old story, only now British Officers believe the conmen are Eastern European rather than Potuguese as originally thought.

Whose the source, the PJ Files?

Looks like its stuff already on the files.

We took the decision to take a family holiday before we were to move to the house.
Sal did a search of places to vacation and found the place indicated in Portugal - in the village of Mark Warner. We stayed in the same apartment that the McCann family would come to share, 5A of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz.

We travelled directly from Gatwick to Faro on 21 April 2007. We were transferred from the airport to our accommodation by staff of Mark Warner, and everything went well with our vacation.
...

On Wednesday or Thursday the children were sleeping in the apartment and Sal also was inside - reading a book if I am not mistaken. I was seated in the paved garden that faced the area of the pool, when I heard a male voice say "Hello". The voice came from the gate that leads to the road at the corner of the apartment and connects to the main reception area.

I stood up and I went to the man who asked me if I would be interested to contribute a donation to an orphanage in the interior mountains. I spoke with him and noticed that he had a badge with identification and that he had what seemed to me to be a book of receipts.

I thought that either he was genuine or a professional "cheat". It was then that I entered the apartment and asked Sal where was the money, and returned with a 10 euro note that I gave to him. I can not say exactly where he put the money and I think that he gave me a receipt, which I imagine that I threw away or left in Portugal. At no time did I think the individual aggressive or in any way persistent. I felt that he was genuine and it appeared to be for a good cause.

I would describe the man as polite, with good appearance and he brought with him a pamphlet. He had dark hair with slight tendency to grey, he appeared to be someone from the area with tanned skin [by the sun]. I would say that he was more than forty years old and 1.77 - 1.80cm in height - this is hard to say with certainty since I was looking down at him from the step above.
I would add that the man was robustly built but was not fat. He wore a light green polo, trousers and shoes.

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This family also had young children in 5A. Bearing in mind their family's holiday habits would different to that of the McCanns why would this charity collector be interested in apartment 5A out of all the apartments in PdL?

by Monty Heck 23.03.14 11:46

SixMillionQuid wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:
One man, aged 40 to 45, knocked on the door of the apartment where the McCanns were to stay on April 25 or 26 between 2.30pm and 3pm, saying that he was a charity collector.

The other, aged 25 to 30, approached a property on the Rua do Ramalhete, near the Ocean Club, at around 4pm on May 3, hours before Madeleine McCann disappeared.

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Rehash of an old story, only now British Officers believe the conmen are Eastern European rather than Potuguese as originally thought.

Whose the source, the PJ Files?
Looks like its stuff already on the files.

We took the decision to take a family holiday before we were to move to the house.
Sal did a search of places to vacation and found the place indicated in Portugal - in the village of Mark Warner. We stayed in the same apartment that the McCann family would come to share, 5A of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz.

We travelled directly from Gatwick to Faro on 21 April 2007. We were transferred from the airport to our accommodation by staff of Mark Warner, and everything went well with our vacation.
...

On Wednesday or Thursday the children were sleeping in the apartment and Sal also was inside - reading a book if I am not mistaken. I was seated in the paved garden that faced the area of the pool, when I heard a male voice say "Hello". The voice came from the gate that leads to the road at the corner of the apartment and connects to the main reception area.

I stood up and I went to the man who asked me if I would be interested to contribute a donation to an orphanage in the interior mountains. I spoke with him and noticed that he had a badge with identification and that he had what seemed to me to be a book of receipts.

I thought that either he was genuine or a professional "cheat". It was then that I entered the apartment and asked Sal where was the money, and returned with a 10 euro note that I gave to him. I can not say exactly where he put the money and I think that he gave me a receipt, which I imagine that I threw away or left in Portugal. At no time did I think the individual aggressive or in any way persistent. I felt that he was genuine and it appeared to be for a good cause.

I would describe the man as polite, with good appearance and he brought with him a pamphlet. He had dark hair with slight tendency to grey, he appeared to be someone from the area with tanned skin [by the sun]. I would say that he was more than forty years old and 1.77 - 1.80cm in height - this is hard to say with certainty since I was looking down at him from the step above.
I would add that the man was robustly built but was not fat. He wore a light green polo, trousers and shoes.

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This family also had young children in 5A. Bearing in mind their family's holiday habits would different to that of the McCanns why would this charity collector be interested in apartment 5A out of all the apartments in PdL?

1) Apparently some children have an astonishing amount of charisma which made them stand out. 2) An astonishingly charismatic child, having attracted attention, had the misfortune to be left unattended in unlocked premises. So we are led to believe.

by jeanmonroe 23.03.14 12:00

I would describe the man as polite, with good appearance and he brought with him a pamphlet
-----------------------------------------

So NOT 'reeking of tobbaco' or K&G's 'exclusive, from their online store'' Eau de De'ath 'aftershave' then?

Re: DCI Redwood's 'STINKY FELLA, CHILD ABUSER'!

by Guest 23.03.14 12:34

SixMillionQuid wrote:

[/color][/size][/font][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This family also had young children in 5A. Bearing in mind their family's holiday habits would different to that of the McCanns why would this charity collector be interested in apartment 5A out of all the apartments in PdL?

I would recommend reading this excellent thread.

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by SixMillionQuid 23.03.14 13:17

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:

[/color][/size][/font][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This family also had young children in 5A. Bearing in mind their family's holiday habits would different to that of the McCanns why would this charity collector be interested in apartment 5A out of all the apartments in PdL?

I would recommend reading this excellent thread.

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The burglars had a special symbol for 'patio door left open' and 'take a child and don't touch valuable items'

by **tigger** 23.03.14 17:43

SixMillionQuid wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:

[/color][/size][/font][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This family also had young children in 5A. Bearing in mind their family's holiday habits would different to that of the McCanns why would this charity collector be interested in apartment 5A out of all the apartments in PdL?

I would recommend reading this excellent thread.

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The burglars had a special symbol for 'patio door left open' and 'take a child and don't touch valuable items'

I remember those 'codes'. Now why would a burglar leave a code for another burglar he clearly doesn't know, otherwise he'd just have given him a ring.
Moreover, he'd find out about the premises by burgling them, so there'd be nothing left to take.

In fact such codes do exist and are quite old, but they were used by tramps to signal whether the house owner would be likely to give them food, whether they had a fierce dog etc. that kind of thing.

by kimHager 23.03.14 20:53

Now we have two charity men, pimple man, stinky man, the tractor man...really what's next

by Cristobell 24.03.14 14:51

tigger wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:

[/color][/size][/font][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This family also had young children in 5A. Bearing in mind their family's holiday habits would different to that of the McCanns why would this charity collector be interested in apartment 5A out of all the apartments in PdL?

I would recommend reading this excellent thread.

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The burglars had a special symbol for 'patio door left open' and 'take a child and don't touch valuable items'

I remember those 'codes'. Now why would a burglar leave a code for another burglar he clearly doesn't know, otherwise he'd just have given him a ring.
Moreover, he'd find out about the premises by burgling them, so there'd be nothing left to take.

In fact such codes do exist and are quite old, but they were used by tramps to signal whether the house owner would be likely to give them food, whether they had a fierce dog etc. that kind of thing.

Codes may have been useful in Victorian England, but I thought it was the mobile phone signals that alerted the police to burglars operating in the area?

by Guest 24.03.14 14:55

kimHager wrote:Now we have two charity men, pimple man, stinky man, the tractor man...really what's next

Just waiting for 'Doctorman' or make that 'Doctormen' then we will be on the RIGHT TRACK!!!!

by jeanmonroe 24.03.14 16:15

WHY hasn't JW ever sued the McCanns for stating he is a blatant liar, in print and on TV?

Until he does, I am adding his name to 'suspects' list.

Gerry didn't see what JW did after their 'chat' JT didn't see where Wilkins 'went' and 'what he did' after passing him..

JT didn't 'see' the 'abductor' Redwood tells us.

Maybe JW is the 'abductor'

Went back to 5A after GM/JT had returned to tapas.

Maybe that's why he 'lied' in his statements to police about where he was 'chatting' to GM.

And that's why he has never sued them.

imo, obviously. winkwink

by kimHager 24.03.14 17:10

Hahaha Andrew77R yes or the remark " they've taken her" maybe was tractor Tanner stinky potbelly pimple creche white van men and since they couldn't decide at the time which would work best left it open with a reference to they. Smart thinking on KM part. Now doctorman or mccannman definately should be sighted and investigated IMO.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 24.03.14 17:27

kimHager wrote:Hahaha Andrew77R yes or the remark " they've taken her" maybe was tractor Tanner stinky potbelly pimple creche white van men and since they couldn't decide at the time which would work best left it open with a reference to they. Smart thinking on KM part. Now doctorman or mccannman definately should be sighted and investigated IMO.

Or possibly "they" is Gerry.

by Newintown 24.03.14 19:12

jeanmonroe wrote:WHY hasn't JW ever sued the McCanns for stating he is a blatant liar, in print and on TV?

Until he does, I am adding his name to 'suspects' list.

Gerry didn't see what JW did after their 'chat' JT didn't see where Wilkins 'went' and 'what he did' after passing him..

JT didn't 'see' the 'abductor' Redwood tells us.

Maybe JW is the 'abductor'

Went back to 5A after GM/JT had returned to tapas.

Maybe that's why he 'lied' in his statements to police about where he was 'chatting' to GM.

And that's why he has never sued them.

imo, obviously.

Line in bold and blue underlined by me - That's food for thought, something I'd never had entered my head previously. GM could have been handing over Madeleine to JW in the baby buggy whether dead or alive to take off into God knows where, with JT the lookout.

Jez didn't seem too bothered about the disappearance of Madeleine the following day according to his statements (no, don't ask me for a link, I haven't got one).

smilie

by Guest 24.03.14 19:13

jeanmonroe wrote:WHY hasn't JW ever sued the McCanns for stating he is a blatant liar, in print and on TV?

Until he does, I am adding his name to 'suspects' list.

Gerry didn't see what JW did after their 'chat' JT didn't see where Wilkins 'went' and 'what he did' after passing him..

JT didn't 'see' the 'abductor' Redwood tells us.

Maybe JW is the 'abductor'

Went back to 5A after GM/JT had returned to tapas.

Maybe that's why he 'lied' in his statements to police about where he was 'chatting' to GM.

And that's why he has never sued them.

imo, obviously.

He definately needs eliminating I agree. And the article by his wife, very strange.

by canada12 24.03.14 19:57

There's quite a lot here about Jeremy Wilkins, witness statements, etc.

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Some thoughts:

He stated he was very reluctant to return to Portugal for a reconstruction, citing the intrusion into his life by the events. I find this a peculiar kind of reaction. Surely you'd want to do everything you could to contribute to solving the case, particularly if you had a conversation with someone right outside the flat, around the time that the crime was purported to have happened?

He spells Gerry's name with a "J" - the same way it appears on the first written timeline on the cover of the sticker book.

He's very specific about some details, but very vague about others. This man is a filmmaker. I would think he has an eagle eye and a very good memory for details.

by Monty Heck 24.03.14 20:12

canada12 wrote:There's quite a lot here about Jeremy Wilkins, witness statements, etc.

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Some thoughts:

He stated he was very reluctant to return to Portugal for a reconstruction, citing the intrusion into his life by the events. I find this a peculiar kind of reaction. Surely you'd want to do everything you could to contribute to solving the case, particularly if you had a conversation with someone right outside the flat, around the time that the crime was purported to have happened?

He spells Gerry's name with a "J" - the same way it appears on the first written timeline on the cover of the sticker book.

He's very specific about some details, but very vague about others. This man is a filmmaker. I would think he has an eagle eye and a very good memory for details.

Why JW wasn't:
- located by the McCs in the immediate aftermath and grilled personally by them to extract the tiniest detail of anything he may have witnessed, being there around "the time of the disappearance" as purported by themselves
or
- suspected of any involvement in the disappearance, being there around "the time of the disappearance" as purported by themselves
is beyond strange.

Almost as if they already knew he couldn't have seen anything relevant, or been involved even though he had been there on the spot at the relevant time.

by kimHager 24.03.14 20:22

Yes whatliesbehindthesofa I believe that as I will call him mccannman and Imo I believe he was the one spotted by the Irish family. Possibly they could have been a couple so KM tells the social worker and now enters the sighting of the couple in the early am walking carrying a child.. Now it's doctormen or manwoman however you want to say it. (KM &GM) but that's my opinion.

dantezebu do you know where I can read the article by the wife of jw.. I haven't saw it yet.

by suzyjohnson 24.03.14 20:29

~On the McCann Files, kimHager, she's called Bridget O'Donnell

by suzyjohnson 24.03.14 20:30

I think the bogus charity collectors were just that, bogus charity collectors, I doubt they would have been remotely interested in MM

by Casey5 24.03.14 20:33

Monty Heck wrote:
snipped:-
Why JW wasn't:
- located by the McCs in the immediate aftermath and grilled personally by them to extract the tiniest detail of anything he may have witnessed, being there around "the time of the disappearance" as purported by themselves
or
- suspected of any involvement in the disappearance, being there around "the time of the disappearance" as purported by themselves
is beyond strange.

Almost as if they already knew he couldn't have seen anything relevant, or been involved even though he had been there on the spot at the relevant time.

Likewise, our friend Matt Oldfield. Why wasn't he pinned up against a wall by Gerry McCann demanding to know what he'd done with his daughter - Matt being the last person to enter 5A - "I never saw her" squeals Matt - "A likely tale, you couldn't have missed seeing her because the door opens from left to right" snarls Gerry.
But Gerry never seems to have suspected Matt, I wonder why?

by Monty Heck 24.03.14 20:55

Casey5 wrote:
Monty Heck wrote:
snipped:-
Why JW wasn't:
- located by the McCs in the immediate aftermath and grilled personally by them to extract the tiniest detail of anything he may have witnessed, being there around "the time of the disappearance" as purported by themselves
or
- suspected of any involvement in the disappearance, being there around "the time of the disappearance" as purported by themselves
is beyond strange.

Almost as if they already knew he couldn't have seen anything relevant, or been involved even though he had been there on the spot at the relevant time.
Likewise, our friend Matt Oldfield. Why wasn't he pinned up against a wall by Gerry McCann demanding to know what he'd done with his daughter - Matt being the last person to enter 5A - "I never saw her" squeals Matt - "A likely tale, you couldn't have missed seeing her because the door opens from left to right" snarls Gerry.
But Gerry never seems to have suspected Matt, I wonder why?

Exactly, MO's life shouldn't have been worth living having reported "all well" after his purported visit to 5a. Ditto JT who dithered about telling about seeing "the abductor" even when search parties were being arranged and she ought to have informed them "he was heading that way!" Both inexcusable and yet, inexplicably, excused without so much as a reproach from the McCs or, perhaps even more tellingly, the wider McClan. No reproaches from the grandparents, from those very vocal siblings? None at all, the entire Clan unanimous in magnanimity and all singing from the same hymn sheet - don't blame people for fouling up, everything is the abductor's fault.