Blacksmith : February 9th A WORTHLESS WEAPON

by russiandoll 09.02.13 14:37

Shoot the messengers

John Blacksmith writes:
we made no criticism of Mr Bennett in yesterday's piece. But we talked
of the screen of dishonesty which runs from top to bottom of those sites
which sponsor and support him, as manifested in their deliberate
omissions and misrepresentation of the court proceedings. [/size]
There’s
nothing new about my views: months ago I described the Jill Havern site
as a sh****** that anyone with an ounce of self-respect should leave
immediately. And the same goes to a very large extent for the Missing
Madeleine site.
The
Havern site has been speaking in hushed whispers about the court
proceedings and implying that in some sense they should stay quiet
about aspects of the case pro tem. Why? It is the Havern site,
for God's sake, not the Bennett site. Havern and the members have no
status in the court case so they can comment as much as they like and
summarise as much as they like. In theory.
In
theory. Because it isn't Havern's site, is it? It is gifted to Mr
Bennett who uses it just as the McCanns use the Find Madeleine site.
This
is the foundation of the dishonesty that runs through the place like
dripping wet rot. Instead of being a forum for the exchange of opinions,
with a leaning towards a sceptical stance on the McCanns, it is an
outright propaganda machine for views aligned with those of Mr Bennett.
That is bad enough. Unfortunately the site takes its cue from its
leaders as far as truth and scholarship go and the result is that the
"views" are a crazy mish-mash, a second-rate rumour machine in which
anything favourable to the McCanns is suppressed while the case against
them is made by mainly ignorant people recycling old tabloid stories.
Shoot the mouth off
The
lack of care or scruple towards their living targets is simply
astonishing. Post after post contains the words “I read somewhere” or
“didn’t someone once say?” "wasn't there a fridge?" demonstrating that
they haven’t got the morals or the intellectual strength to check
something before dumping their latest thoughts onto the forum. The
prevailing climate is one of tenth-rate credulousness in which false and
uncorrected comments are scattered all over the forum like weeds.
That
alone would make the site pretty worthless. But the true rot works away
unseen because we also have the corrupting, if highly comical,
situation where any post that threatens to openly disagree with the
Bennett line produces the equivalent of sharply indrawn breath. Sure
enough one of the school-prefect moderators will be intervening with
contemptibly specious reasons as to why the post is dodgy. And then – hide under the desks children
– the footsteps of the head teacher are heard echoing along the
cyberhall, cane and blue pencil in hand, and the Head himself gives
scripture and verse as to why the rules of this Amish camp school have
been broken.

Naturally
anyone with any common sense, intelligence or honesty who mistakenly
stumbles into this wagon-encircled fantasy land are pretty quick to get
out again, one way or another. The result? A self-selected sump, a muddy
residue of unthinking disciples. At least we can note that since our
first appeal for normal people to get out of the place last year, most
of them have now gone.
Just for once, try listening
Look, everybody in the loop (outside the Amish encampments) knew that Bennett, like the Daily Express
in 2008, was being selected for legal action four years ago because he
was a childishly easy target whose claims could not be justified, or
dignified, by evidence and who had no intelligent or influential
followers. He was a patsy, chosen purely pour encourager les autres.Subsequent
attempts to warn people of the size of the trap that was being laid for
Bennett, one that would weaken the reputations of all McCann sceptics,
including Goncalo Amaral, failed at every turn. Every attempt
by me and plenty of others to make the participants aware of the train
crash ahead was met by clannish insult – "Blacksmith is jealous of
Tony" "What's his agenda" "Troll" "Why doesn't he stop sniping from the
sidelines?" The poor bastards just couldn't get it. Some years ago I
myself attempted, on behalf of the Amaral team, to appeal to Bennett to
back off and take a lower profile in the interests of the larger cause
since Amaral refused to answer his messages or communicate with him in
any way. I even joined the Havern forum in a farcical attempt to try and
make him aware of certain facts in Portugal and why he was going to
destroy himself and, more importantly, harm others. I got banned before
accomplishing anything. Why join a forum to try and pass a message
under the public gaze? Because any written and confidential appeal
would, as always, be plastered up on Mr Bennett’s site unredacted.
Anyway, I had to report back and admit that I had failed completely.
Nah, it's just a troll
The
greatest weakness of this site, its owners, moderators and misguided
members was and is its inability to understand that truth is a weapon,
in the long term perhaps the most powerful weapon that exists. But a
weapon has to be gradually assembled with great study, craft and skill,
honed and proved so that when it is tested, as it inevitably will be in
any campaign involving real people, it can be wielded with devastating
effect.
Others
warned its members and its leaders time after time that the claims would
fail because they so obviously lacked the power of assembled truth: the
“weapon” would dissolve in their hands because it wasn't a weapon, it
was just a thrown-together yah-boo claim which was never tested but only
unthinkingly repeated.
Instead
the people on this forum are in denial. They’ll deny it now again, with
the usual abuse. They shouldn't waste words accusing me of being nasty
to Mr Bennett, though, because I'm not doing that – its them,
the members, I'm accusing: you have recklessly encouraged a very
ill-equipped old man into humiliation and defeat at every turn for your
own needs and by your sycophancy, cowardice and unwillingness to listen
to others. And this latest episode has actively helped the McCanns. I
hope you're proud of yourselves.

by tiny 09.02.13 14:59

can anyone tell me what blacksmith is on about,in plain english please.

by jd 09.02.13 15:00

There’s
nothing new about my views: months ago I described the Jill Havern site
as a sh****** that anyone with an ounce of self-respect should leave
immediately. And the same goes to a very large extent for the Missing
Madeleine site.

And this coming from Blacksmith who was wishing Steelmagnolia would fall over and die in her kitchen!!!!

by russiandoll 09.02.13 15:13

He is entitled to his opinion however, and maybe it is a good idea for all discussion forums on any subject to stand back and take a long cold look at themselves now and again, because there is probably a tendency to become bogged down and entrenched in one way of behaving.

There is a lot of speculation because of the nature of this case, perhaps we need to have less of this as interesting as it is, because it is ultimately useless.

He is an outsider looking in on all the McCann forums so his opinions are worth listening to even if we don't like them.

Harsh words from him, but because I value much of what he writes , I will see them as food for thought rather than dismiss them.

p.s. I was not aware he had posted such stuff about Steelmagnolia.... when was that? He has gone right down in my estimation if that is true, but it does not invalidate what he has written. IMO he honestly feels that what some forums are doing is counterproductive in the long term.

by jd 09.02.13 15:16

russiandoll wrote:He is entitled to his opinion however, and maybe it is a good idea for all discussion forums on any subject to stand back and take a long cold look at themselves now and again, because there is probably a tendency to become bogged down and entrenched in one way of behaving.

There is a lot of speculation because of the nature of this case, perhaps we need to have less of this as interesting as it is, because it is ultimately useless.

He is an outsider looking in on all the McCann forums so his opinions are worth listening to even if we don't like them.

Harsh words from him, but because I value much of what he writes , I will see them as food for thought rather than dismiss them.

We are all entitled to our opinions but from someone who wished death to someone for having their opinion, sorry can never have any respect for anyone like this....His true colours and true agenda were exposed with that episode with Steelmagnolia to me...he cons people with his writings but the true persona was revealed wishing someone else to die

by tiny 09.02.13 15:17

jd wrote:
There’s
nothing new about my views: months ago I described the Jill Havern site
as a sh****** that anyone with an ounce of self-respect should leave
immediately. And the same goes to a very large extent for the Missing
Madeleine site.

And this coming from Blacksmith who was wishing Steelmagnolia would fall over and die in her kitchen!!!!

really,blimey what a thing to say,why did he say that.steelmagnolia did great work

by jd 09.02.13 15:19

tiny wrote:
jd wrote:
There’s
nothing new about my views: months ago I described the Jill Havern site
as a sh****** that anyone with an ounce of self-respect should leave
immediately. And the same goes to a very large extent for the Missing
Madeleine site.

And this coming from Blacksmith who was wishing Steelmagnolia would fall over and die in her kitchen!!!!

really,blimey what a thing to say,why did he say that.steelmagnolia did great work

She was very upset about this episode, even more sadly it was only a few weeks before she sadly did pass away. There is a thread on here somewhere with what was happening at the time. It started after she had phoned the police and was shocked by what they said

by russiandoll 09.02.13 15:21

sorry jd, I was editing my post and writing a p.s. when you posted. Is it the same person writing all the Balcksmith stuff do you know....I have found a few of his recent pieces puzzling style- and content -wise.

Forget it is him saying this, are the words still worth considering? That is what matters. Sometimes a few home truths are necessary , I am not saying I agree with this piece, merely that it is food for thought and that we will seem unintelligent and dogmatic to reject it out of hand.

by tiny 09.02.13 15:29

jd wrote:
tiny wrote:
jd wrote:
There’s
nothing new about my views: months ago I described the Jill Havern site
as a sh****** that anyone with an ounce of self-respect should leave
immediately. And the same goes to a very large extent for the Missing
Madeleine site.

And this coming from Blacksmith who was wishing Steelmagnolia would fall over and die in her kitchen!!!!

really,blimey what a thing to say,why did he say that.steelmagnolia did great work

She was very upset about this episode, even more sadly it was only a few weeks before she sadly did pass away. There is a thread on here somewhere with what was happening at the time. It started after she had phoned the police and was shocked by what they said

thanks jd,will have a look for it

by russiandoll 09.02.13 15:51

thanks from me also jd, I will make sure I read it. I am shocked that anyone could write such a thing. It will make me look again at his recent writings with a rather more cynical eye, as you say... the agenda behind it.

by olipet 09.02.13 15:52

I am with you on this Russian Doll.

by **tigger** 09.02.13 15:54

'... I even joined the Havern forum in a farcical attempt to try and
make him aware of certain facts in Portugal and why he was going to
destroy himself and, more importantly, harm others. I got banned before
accomplishing anything. Why join a forum to try and pass a message
under the public gaze? Because any written and confidential appeal
would, as always, be plastered up on Mr Bennett’s site unredacted.
Anyway, I had to report back and admit that I had failed completely.
unquote

So come clean! What name did you use to post? In my experience people get banned because they
a) post insults (I mean straight insults such as 'Do you have brain?") or
b) the material they've posted can be actionable in libel terms.

We may still have a chance to read your advice as long as we know where to look. It's no good accusing us of not acting on advice given if we can't find it.
As for having to report back, that's interesting. thinking

Thank you.

by Ribisl 09.02.13 15:56

russiandoll wrote:
Forget it is him saying this, are the words still worth considering? That is what matters. Sometimes a few home truths are necessary , I am not saying I agree with this piece, merely that it is food for thought and that we will seem unintelligent and dogmatic to reject it out of hand.

by russiandoll 09.02.13 16:07

you make 2 very good points Tigger [ I thought this piece would generate good discussion !].

Yes stop being cryptic and tell us who you were when here...[ in fact given what he has said, he probably wants us to prove our combined intellect by searching and posting the member name he used !]

And report back to whom? His followers?

by Ange 09.02.13 16:08

russiandoll wrote:
Shoot the messengers

John Blacksmith writes:
we made no criticism of Mr Bennett in yesterday's piece. But we talked
of the screen of dishonesty which runs from top to bottom of those sites
which sponsor and support him, as manifested in their deliberate
omissions and misrepresentation of the court proceedings. [/size]
There’s
nothing new about my views: months ago I described the Jill Havern site
as a sh****** then <<<<<<<<<< snip >>>>>>>>>>

the members, I'm accusing: you have recklessly encouraged a very
ill-equipped old man into humiliation and defeat at every turn for your
own needs and by your sycophancy, cowardice and unwillingness to listen
to others. And this latest episode has actively helped the McCanns. I
hope you're proud of yourselves.

A sh****** - wow. big grin

Pretty scathing piece. Even although I expected more of a 'discussion' on the court case itself, I assumed those who were in attendance were reticent to report in detail what they had heard, being unsure of the boundaries they may cross, imo. I'm aware Blacksmith would say they're posting under anonymity, therefore he has a point there. As to how he can possibly know who left this forum last year 'on his advice', lord knows.

Last time I looked, I wasn't a fan of the Amish, nowt against them, nowt for them. I have not seen, not even in mainstream media, anything "favourable" to the McCanns that could possibly have been suppressed in this forum, what IS he talking about here?

Since Blacksmith suggests that Tony's a patsy having been set up by those in the loop, the loop consisting of himself by his own admission in this article, what exactly is he implying then? That he's part of the cover-up - or working for Amaral - neither of which make sense, as he's denied the latter before, nor would a person from that camp discourage the truth getting out there. He has always given the impression, then denied it, that he knows more than he has put in writing. Why? Why is he becoming more and more vitriolic to Tony personally? Likewise targetting posters on here. Are people 'like me' supposed to read that and think 'oh sh*t what a fool i've been reading that forum' and join the "sump"?

I've read, and agreed with, a lot of what Blacksmith's written in the past. Something has changed, I wonder what it is.

I'm not ashamed of anything I've done in support of Tony. I don't recall seeing anyone TELLING Tony what he should do, only encouragement of a man who had the courage of his convictions to stand firm in what he believes.. I don't see Blacksmith doing that, after all, he is in the Loop, therefore in the know, and should be putting his money where his mouth is. With respect, and all that jazz.

by russiandoll 09.02.13 16:14

We should be able to whittle down to a few who BS was posting as on the forum, there was a small group actively discouraging TB from his actions. I admire anyone making a stand like TB did, however as was pointed out to us regularly, fine for us to encourage when our necks were not on the block....a fair point. Depends on whether we recklessly or thoughtfully gave TB encouragment and what motivated us. Same goes for those discouraging as well , motive out of genuine concern or another motive altogether?
Something has changed, I take the point of that statement.

by Smokeandmirrors 09.02.13 16:23

Russian Doll I think you've said some wise words about this, and in the past I have enjoyed some of what Blacksmith has said.

However, this is a bit too vitriolic to command much respect IMO, and I think he has let himself down. There are more intelligent ways of communicating ones point than this diatribe.

by tiny 09.02.13 16:24

russiondoll,you seem to understand what blacksmith means,so can you tell me what he means by this part.
Instead
the people on this forum are in denial. They’ll deny it now again, with
the usual abuse. They shouldn't waste words accusing me of being nasty
to Mr Bennett, though, because I'm not doing that – its them,
the members, I'm accusing: you have recklessly encouraged a very
ill-equipped old man into humiliation and defeat at every turn for your
own needs and by your sycophancy, cowardice and unwillingness to listen
to others. And this latest episode has actively helped the McCanns. I
hope you're proud of yourselves.

how have we helped the mccanns?

by **sharonl** 09.02.13 16:27

tigger wrote:Blacksmith wrote: "... I even joined the Havern forum in a farcical attempt to try and make him aware of certain facts in Portugal and why he was going to destroy himself and, more importantly, harm others. I got banned before
accomplishing anything.

tigger, this is very interesting.

So 'Blacksmith' is saying that he joined the forum to make [Tony] aware of certain things and 'why he was going to destroy himself' and then got banned before accomplishing anything...

There was a poster called 'Me' who was on this forum for some time.

He then stayed away for a long time.

He suddenly strated posting actively a week ago.

He started trying to 'make Tony aware of certain things'.

He didn't exactly say that Tony was 'going to destroy himself' but he did keep on and on about Tony going the wrong way about it etc.

And for that reason, 'Me' got banned recently from the forum.

One other thing I noticed about 'Me's postings.

He described in very exaggerated language how wonderful 'Blacksmith' was.

Repeately.

Again and again.

Has 'Blacksmith' just admitted to everyone on this forum that, all along, he was 'Me'?

by Smokeandmirrors 09.02.13 16:29

tiny wrote:russiondoll,you seem to understand what blacksmith means,so can you tell me what he means by this part.
Instead
the people on this forum are in denial. They’ll deny it now again, with
the usual abuse. They shouldn't waste words accusing me of being nasty
to Mr Bennett, though, because I'm not doing that – its them,
the members, I'm accusing: you have recklessly encouraged a very
ill-equipped old man into humiliation and defeat at every turn for your
own needs and by your sycophancy, cowardice and unwillingness to listen
to others. And this latest episode has actively helped the McCanns. I
hope you're proud of yourselves.

how have we helped the mccanns?

The bit in red, I think spells out the motivation for this piece.

Sharon, I can see why you think that, a slight similarity in tone perhaps?

by **tigger** 09.02.13 16:32

russiandoll wrote:We should be able to whittle down to a few who BS was posting as on the forum, there was a small group actively discouraging TB from his actions. I admire anyone making a stand like TB did, however as was pointed out to us regularly, fine for us to encourage when our necks were not on the block....a fair point. Depends on whether we recklessly or thoughtfully gave TB encouragment and what motivated us. Same goes for those discouraging as well , motive out of genuine concern or another motive altogether?
Something has changed, I take the point of that statement.

What a pity Mr. C. Edwards has been banned so recently. He did seem to have very good legal advice to give. It wouldn't be? Surely not!
Although he was fond of instructing us in the finer points of law, he lost his cool in a big way when we didn't listen or dare to ask questions.
Exactly the same has happened to him on MM. Nowhere left to rant now or is this it?

by russiandoll 09.02.13 16:32

Oh yes !! Me is imo the no 1 suspect. It all depends on motivation and despite some interesting points there is a lot of vitriol in this piece from today, as someone has said earlier.

C Edwards might be another...?

by Spaniel 09.02.13 16:33

tiny wrote:can anyone tell me what blacksmith is on about,in plain english please.

I can. He's complaining that he has nothing to write about. Lazy blogger.
There are some good blogs, but they are just wordy extentions of what our members write here. Vanity press.

by marxman 09.02.13 16:35

Sharoni said,

"He didn't exactly say that Tony was 'going to destroy himself' but he did keep on and on about Tony going the wrong way about it etc.
And for that reason, 'Me' got banned recently from the forum."

Is this not an example of what BS is alluding to?

As in differing views are suppressed.

by **tigger** 09.02.13 16:37

russiandoll wrote:Oh yes !! Me is imo the no 1 suspect. It all depends on motivation and despite some interesting points there is a lot of vitriol in this piece from today, as someone has said earlier.

C Edwards might be another...?

Hadn't thought of that! More likely although I thought Me was a very old friend/poster, I remember when I was just here that lots of members were over the moon when Me came back.
I've copied my post and the whole piece to MM as they are included. Over there, C. Edwards is locked away in prison, cell block Complaints.

by **sharonl** 09.02.13 16:38

russiandoll wrote:thanks from me also jd, I will make sure I read it. I am shocked that anyone could write such a thing. It will make me look again at his recent writings with a rather more cynical eye, as you say... the agenda behind it.

Some of us have looked at 'Blacksmith's outpourings with a very cynical eye for a long time.

His flowery language may appeal to some. And sometimes his analysis of certain things is good.

But it's his track record of attacking those who have most stood up to the McCanns that makes a lot of us very cynical about him.
His attack on SteelMagnolia / Ironside was a despicable attack on someone who was dying, and unless he truly says sorry for that, that alone should make any thinking person permanently shun what he says.

SteelMagnolia was no ordinary McCann blogger. There was a great deal of penetrating research in her articles.

He attacks Tony repeatedly and vitriolically.

Now he lays into this forum which over 3 successful years has gone from nothing to what is by far and away the most popular Madeleine McCann discussion forum on the internet. The one of most interest to the likes of Carter-Ruck.

'Blacksmith' comes over as a con-merchant with a secret agenda to attack those who most vigorously oppose the abduction scenario.

by jeanmonroe 09.02.13 16:40

"it is an outright propaganda machine for views aligned with those of Mr Bennett. That is bad enough."

Strangely enough he dosen't say, but hints at, the McCanns use their website exactly the same way!

So presumeably he arrives at the same conclusion for BOTH sites which is, according to him:
"The result? A self-selected sump, a muddy residue of unthinking disciples!"
Is he really saying that the McCanns have a residue of 'unthinking disciples'
Actually, i know a few of THEM. lol.

"members can comment as much as they like and summarise as much as they like. In theory."
Yes we can.
However, are the theories we comment on just that?
Mr Blacksith, it seems, dosen't mind us discussing 'theories'
So until the McCanns , or ANYONE, can prove Madeleine was 'abducted' THAT is just a theory.
And he dosen't mind us discussing it, ad infinitum. That's awfully gracious of him.
Are the written, recorded statements given by the T9 only 'theories'?
Are the discrepancies and contradictions in the statements theories or fact?
EG; DP said 'we passed Matt on our way to the dinner, he continued up and back to his apartment'
Q. Who was at the dinner table when you arrived Mr Payne?
A. Russ and Matt were there, obviously"
Is it a theory that Matt is superman and could be in TWO places at once 150 metres apart?
If Mr Blacksmith could just explain this ONE anomaly to me, an unthinking disciple, who couldn't possibly form my own opinion, then i will gladly defer to his 'view' that i'm an unthinking person.
I've never made a decision or formed a view in my life, according to Mr Blacksmith.
Unless, as he states, i'm being guided by Mr Bennett.

Whatever did i do in the 55 years BEFORE i ever heard of Mr Bennett?

No, Mr Blacksmith, I and others can think and say what we like and do not, regrettably, have to conform to what YOU tell us to think and do!

YOU are beginning to sound like the very people, TB and McCanns, you constantly moan about!

Your motto isn't "Do as i say, not as i do" is it?

by olipet 09.02.13 16:59

I for one, admittedly, have found BB blogs interesting and at times, erudite.
I also found some of C. Edwards postings to be same. Always very composed.
Have I too, been tricked? There is similarity.
After all, I have just made my way to STM forum to have a look at their analysis of the TB hearing.
Oh gosh!
I am struggling! sad

by jd 09.02.13 17:06

'... I even joined the Havern forum in a farcical attempt to try and make him aware of certain facts in Portugal and why he was going to destroy himself and, more importantly, harm others.

What blacksmith seems to be conveniently missing, is that the facts we, Tony and everyone else are analysing and have theories are on are based on the facts from the official police investigation, from the mccanns very own mouths, the words the mccanns & their friends/family themselves have said, the actions the mccanns themselves have made

I have wondered if there was more than one writing blacksmith blogs. The articles change like the wind but as gerry mccann says "confusion is good"

And he was not just attacking this forum, he was attacking MM too...widening the scope to forums who are doubting the mccanns version of events

by bobbin 09.02.13 17:07

marxman wrote:Sharoni said,

"He didn't exactly say that Tony was 'going to destroy himself' but he did keep on and on about Tony going the wrong way about it etc.
And for that reason, 'Me' got banned recently from the forum."

Is this not an example of what BS is alluding to?

As in differing views are suppressed.

I don't know if I've misunderstood you here, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Having a differing view, or, being forced by someone else to change one's view is what this BS rant is really about.
Getting banned for having a different view is not what Blacksmith, Me or C.Edwards was about.
They were saying that because we refuse to think and say what they want us to think and say, then we are wrong.
Well, that is just bullying, and when they failed, they got nasty and then they flounced off.
It's good though to look at what they are trying to force us to think.
That then highlights where the sensitive areas are (where we are NOT supposed to look) and that's a good place to start investigation.
This forum is not about personalities, competing for supremacy in the debating society, it's about people putting their thinking power together to get justice for a little girl who went on holiday and didn't come back.
The parents are responsible for this, in one form or another and this is what needs to be addressed.
Blacksmith is a total irrelevance.
His opinions have been aired and people can approve, disapprove or be indifferent.
He has not contributed to the achieving of justice for Maddie, save perhaps in that now we may have a clearer view of where we should look and that is where he would have us not look.
Tony, achieving the impossible so far, has been an absolute thorn in BS flesh.
Tony has been the same to, and instilled fear into, the McCanns.
This latest rant IMO is closer to home, not BS as some independent ranter, but he does seem to carry a very strong and personal desire to belittle Tony and persuade him to desist.