Libel diary 1: it's called gratitude by Blacksmith Bureau

by Guest 05.09.12 20:36

Another good one.......................

Wednesday, 5 September 2012

Libel diary 1: it's called gratitude

http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/libel-diary-1-it-called-gratitude.html

by russiandoll 05.09.12 20:47

quote:
Philomena McCann: It was hours before the local police turned up and we're talking two bobbies that totally downplayed the incident and said that Maddie had maybe just wandered off, and that... but what 3-year-old would wander off for hours on their own? It took the CID 5 hours before they responded to come and even then it was, kind of, shrug of the shoulders. There's been no feedback from the Portuguese police to Gerry. The stress levels have been through the roof because of this, it's just been shocking.

Is this woman for real? What an idiotic thing to say. Did she really believe the police thought a 3 year old would have safely done the magical mystery tour of PdL and still be walking and safe hours later?
She is taking the p*ss.

by **tigger** 05.09.12 20:53

In the Irish Interview https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5406-the-irish-interview-13-5-2011?highlight=irish+interview -

here your are: (It's a long interview)
21.48 ...G:erry we started to search .. they phoned the police just after 10.00 but the call was only logged at 10.40 and another 20 minutes before they came.....
Kate: almost 4 hours before PJ came ...

I wonder what it says in the bewk, because I doubt that she dared to put it in black and white.....

by **PeterMac** 05.09.12 22:35

Book.
p. 73

"Just after ten past ten, Gerry asked Matt to run to the Ocean
Club’s twenty-four-hour reception to get the staff to call the
police. All the screaming and shouting had now alerted
other guests and staff that something was amiss and
various people were beginning to appear outside the
apartment, front and back. I vividly recall sobbing, ‘Not
Madeleine, not Madeleine, not Madeleine.’ I was trying so
hard to suppress the negative voice in my head tormenting
me with the words, ‘She’s gone. She’s gone.’ Even now,
when the dark clouds close in on me, I find myself shaking
my head manically and repeating over and over again, ‘Not
Madeleine, not Madeleine. Please God, not my Madeleine.’
Gerry and I were standing in the living room clutching
each other, utterly distraught. I couldn’t help myself, let alone
try to soothe Gerry, who was in a state too harrowing for me
to bear, howling for his precious little girl. I kept blaming
myself – ‘We’ve let her down! We’ve failed her!’ – which
increased Fiona’s own distress. ‘You haven’t, Kate. You
haven’t,’ she insisted.
By this time the Mark Warner people had rounded up as
many of their colleagues as they could, off-duty staff as well
as those just finishing their shifts, rousing some of them
from their beds. Close to ten-thirty they activated the
company’s ‘missing child search protocol’ and mobilized
people to comb the complex and its environs. At 10.35 the
police had still not arrived, so Gerry asked Matt if he would
go back down to the twenty-four-hour reception and find out
what was happening. John Hill, the Mark Warner resort
manager, came up to the veranda behind our apartment. I
remember screaming at him to do something. ‘Where are
the police?’ I yelled at him. He tried to reassure me they’d
be with us soon but I could tell that he, too, was finding the
waiting difficult. Minutes felt like hours.

[Incredible precision, "just after ten past ten..."]
What does Matt's statement say ?

Dave and Russell were just running off sort of shouting, so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police, so I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, which his back to the, to the main reception essentially, so I went down that route looking for her at that time and I asked the reception to phone the Police, and that must have been about five past, it's difficult to know what time it was at that time, but maybe about ten past ten, five past ten, ten past ten".

4078 "Quite quick then?"

Reply "Yeah, sort of pretty much, you know, straight away, erm, I think it was only, but then it was a kind of, it was surreal when you got there, I said, you've got to phone the Police, you know, a child's been taken, and they went, oh no, she's probably just sort of woken up and he thought she's probably sort of wandered off or something like that and you thought, yeah, maybe you're right, maybe you're right, erm, can you please, it was sort of, it was kind of, it was sort a weird kind of lack of urgency, you know, he'd ring, but you had to sort and stand there and say, ring now, ring now, so I don't know if they rang at that point, but certainly, erm, you know, I certainly asked them to, about perhaps sort of maybe about ten past ten maybe.

So now we do not know who told the person originally supposed to have been the last one to see MBM alive, to phone the Police.
We do not even know whether it was a man or a woman.
Does this not sound familiar ? JT's alleged "sighting" dismissed by Edgar as possibly a woman ?
They are doctors, and they can't tell the difference ?

Or perhaps they do not want to be judgmental !

by ShuBob 05.09.12 22:51

By this time the Mark Warner people had rounded up as
many of their colleagues as they could, off-duty staff as well
as those just finishing their shifts, rousing some of them
from their beds. Close to ten-thirty they activated the
company’s ‘missing child search protocol’ and mobilized
people to comb the complex and its environs. At 10.35 the
police had still not arrived, so Gerry asked Matt if he would
go back down to the twenty-four-hour reception and find out
what was happening.

Presumably, NONE of these members of staff had mobile phones they could use to call the police ON THE SPOT or even spoke English prompting Gerry to send Matt back to the reception? Is this woman for real? Well, I suppose their mantra is to fool some people some of the time.

by jd 06.09.12 1:46

However the British Consulate already had the mobile phone numbers of OC employees (via the Symingtons) as they were phoning them instead! No need to phone the police

From: Jose Maria Batista Roque

He also refers to a situation when he was searching outside, near the pool, that someone from the OC whom he cannot identify, passed him a mobile phone, as a British Consulate employee who spoke in Portuguese, wanted to talk to the authorities. Upon speaking to him, he told him that the investigation and subsequent actions were under the responsibility of the PJ.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm

by Cristobell 06.09.12 2:20

I cannot comprehend why they did not ask Jez Wilkins to help with the search. They knocked on the door of his apartment at 1.00a.m. and when he offered to help, they said there was no need. This makes no sense whatsoever.

by **Nina** 06.09.12 6:25

Cristobell wrote:I cannot comprehend why they did not ask Jez Wilkins to help with the search. They knocked on the door of his apartment at 1.00a.m. and when he offered to help, they said there was no need. This makes no sense whatsoever.

No makes no sense at all, waking someone then telling them/him they/he wasn't required. Also why did he just stay, almost like telling a dog to sit and stay. Most men would have quickly dressed, told the missus to stay put and gone off with the rest who were searching. Did he not realize that it was a three year old child, not a lost wallet, but of course, nothing valuable was missing.

by aiyoyo 06.09.12 6:46

Kate McCann: "Our first impressions of the police station were not encouraging.Basic and shabby, it didn't seem conducive to efficiency and order…in the control room officers in jeans and T-shirts smoked and engaged in what sounded more like light-hearted banter than serious discussion."

So Kate judged police's competence level by the state of a small village local Police Station - and she's supposed to be a doctor!
And she's supposed to be a doctor! I suppose she rather all police stations are like 6-star hotels and she's treated like royalty whenever she's summoned; and this is a mum who'd just lost a daughter!

If people were to peg physical condition of UK's local surgery with GPs efficiency level, local surgeries would be ghost town.

I

by **tigger** 06.09.12 7:07

From the book:
'I vividly recall sobbing, ‘Not
Madeleine, not Madeleine, not Madeleine.’ I was trying so
hard to suppress the negative voice in my head tormenting
me with the words, ‘She’s gone. She’s gone.’ Even now,
when the dark clouds close in on me, I find myself shaking
my head manically and repeating over and over again, ‘Not
Madeleine, not Madeleine. Please God, not my Madeleine.’
unquote

So Amelie or Sean would have been all right then or at least not so bad as Maddie? She's making it sound as if Maddie was her favourite, which we know not to be the case because she was written off fairly soon. The above passage is pure melodrama.

Asked how long they might stay there, he said: "Well, our kids don't start school for three years."'
Daily Mirror, 07 June 2007 - this leaves no room for Maddie who was due to start school in August.

by **PeterMac** 06.09.12 8:40

Cristobell wrote:I cannot comprehend why they did not ask Jez Wilkins to help with the search. They knocked on the door of his apartment at 1.00a.m. and when he offered to help, they said there was no need. This makes no sense whatsoever.

It does make sense if they wanted to keep him out of the way of the police, to prevent him from describing the meeting with GM right outside the apartment whist the 'abduction' was going down, only feet from where they stood, and in clear earshot of rattling and squeaking shutters or closing doors, and thus ruining JT's "sighting" before it even got going.
He had, IMHO to be kept well out of the way until the story could acquire momentum.

by marxman 06.09.12 8:43

PeterMac wrote:
Cristobell wrote:I cannot comprehend why they did not ask Jez Wilkins to help with the search. They knocked on the door of his apartment at 1.00a.m. and when he offered to help, they said there was no need. This makes no sense whatsoever.

It does make sense if they wanted to keep him out of the way of the police, to prevent him from describing the meeting with GM right outside the apartment whist the 'abduction' was going down, only feet from where they stood, and in clear earshot of rattling and squeaking shutters or closing doors, and thus ruining JT's "sighting" before it even got going.
He had, IMHO to be kept well out of the way until the story could acquire momentum.

But why disturb him? why not let him sleep

through it all?

by Guest 06.09.12 9:12

marxman wrote:

But why disturb him? why not let him sleep

through it all?

***
To check if he did hear or see something that might be incriminating?
And, as PM says, to prevent him from going down to find out what's happening?

by **PeterMac** 06.09.12 9:13

marxman wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Cristobell wrote:I cannot comprehend why they did not ask Jez Wilkins to help with the search. They knocked on the door of his apartment at 1.00a.m. and when he offered to help, they said there was no need. This makes no sense whatsoever.

It does make sense if they wanted to keep him out of the way of the police, to prevent him from describing the meeting with GM right outside the apartment whist the 'abduction' was going down, only feet from where they stood, and in clear earshot of rattling and squeaking shutters or closing doors, and thus ruining JT's "sighting" before it even got going.
He had, IMHO to be kept well out of the way until the story could acquire momentum.

But why disturb him? why not let him sleep through it all?

In case he heard the hundreds of people shouting and searching, and came out and went straight up to a Police officer to explain. He had to be kept out of the way until the story could get itself established.

by Woofer 06.09.12 9:53

tigger wrote:Asked how long they might stay there, he said: "Well, our kids don't start school for three years."'
Daily Mirror, 07 June 2007 - this leaves no room for Maddie who was due to start school in August.

Well spotted tigger - that says one hell of a lot imo and is a major blunder on GM`s part.

by russiandoll 06.09.12 10:14

Châtelaine wrote:
marxman wrote:

But why disturb him? why not let him sleep

through it all?
***
To check if he did hear or see something that might be incriminating?
And, as PM says, to prevent him from going down to find out what's happening?

from JW's statement :

The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I learnt to be John and one of Jerry's friends. I think his name was Matt. He is white, slim, and tall with greying hair. From previous conversations I learnt him to be a diabetics specialist. We met him o the way to the destination. Matt said XXXXX to the effect that Jerry's daughter had been abducted, and that Jerry said that he had met me and wanted to know if I had seen anything. I said 'You're joking'. I offered help but they said there was nothing that could be done at that stage. We remained at the apartment but could see people around the pool and at the front with torches. I also saw the police arriving. We then went to bed.

In bold is the motive for not simply leaving JW undisturbed, what they would have done had it been a simple case of "nothing could be done at that stage." Gerry McCann sent them to JW despite not needing his assistance.
Wanted to establish if JW had seen anything incriminating and make sure he stayed well out of the way. Gerry did not go himself of course which would have been the sensible thing to do in the case of a genuine abduction, to retrace his steps and where exactly they had been on the street when they chatted. Why send a thid party to discuss this, a go- between ? Of course the impression created was that Gerry was too busy searching to visit JW himself.
The deviousness, the cunning, the gift for manipulation is chilling.

and JW's "you're joking " is very telling of his disbelief that the child had gone missing in the manner explained to him. He was told about an abduction and probably the time- frame when it happened....when he was in the street nearby.

what a spanner in the works JW was !

by Guest 06.09.12 10:27

Why did JW not want to do the reconstruction? His email to Stuart Prior about a third of the way down. Why were they all so reluctant?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm

by marxman 06.09.12 10:33

And all this running around, ringing cops and

banging on doors proclaiming 'abduction' was

well before an 'eye witness' was found, as in

Tanner?

by Olive_Boyle 06.09.12 10:36

I love reading Blacksmiths posts, he really is a genious with the written word.

Taking aside that a 3 year old girl has 'possibly' lost her life - what really upsets me most about this case is this, which I believe is monumental.

"The giant effort that the Portuguese made was rewarded with a poison that the parents, and the parents alone,
are responsible for. They it was who set the tone for the countless
horrible attacks on the host country and its institutions, our oldest
ally and one in which the British have been made welcome for hundreds of
years."

As someone who has been to Portugal only twice, I can honestly say that I found the nicest, friendliest and welcoming people I've EVER come across on my travels.

It makes me want to weep that they alone have completely ruined this relationship with such a special country and the Portugese people.

by Ross 06.09.12 10:48

candyfloss wrote:Why did JW not want to do the reconstruction?

Warned off? Bought off?

by **tigger** 06.09.12 11:19

I've just started a topic on this because my answer would go wildly off topic.

I'm also looking for the topic Tony Bennett posted a few months ago with the statements of witnesses having heard the alarm well before 9.30 to add to it.

by Guest 06.09.12 11:23

tigger wrote:I've just started a topic on this because my answer would go wildly off topic.

I'm also looking for the topic Tony Bennett posted a few months ago with the statements of witnesses having heard the alarm well before 9.30 to add to it.

I have moved the topic to Debate section tigger, as it is for discussion and not latest news.

by **tigger** 06.09.12 11:28

candyfloss wrote:
tigger wrote:I've just started a topic on this because my answer would go wildly off topic.

I'm also looking for the topic Tony Bennett posted a few months ago with the statements of witnesses having heard the alarm well before 9.30 to add to it.

I have moved the topic to Debate section tigger, as it is for discussion and not latest news.

I am a tigger of little brain.. it was the reason I started a new topic. roses

by jd 06.09.12 11:38

Kate McCann: "Our first impressions of the police station were not encouraging.Basic and shabby, it didn't seem conducive to efficiency and order…in the control room officers in jeans and T-shirts smoked and engaged in what sounded more like light-hearted banter than serious discussion."

And how did gerry mccann himself behave while they were waiting for information at the police station from a possible kidnapper.....laughing & joking, sucking lollipops, reading football & rugby on the internet!

A man in the Netherlands demanded a ransom of two million euros, with an advance payment of 500 thousand euros. The contacts between Gerry and the man were made per email in an office at the PJ in Portimão. When the indication of the conditions and the location for the delivery of the money were awaited, "there was great tension in the room".

"On the other hand, the relaxed stance" of Gerry "made a stark contrast with the anxiety of the policemen and intrigued all the investigators". Maddie’s father "sucked on a lollipop in a relaxed manner while he read banalities on internet sites and discussed rugby and football with one of the English policemen", the author reveals. Later on, the individual was detained and the lead revealed to be false.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id164.html

by russiandoll 06.09.12 13:23

Ross wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Why did JW not want to do the reconstruction?
Warned off? Bought off?

Heaven knows. I guess if you were told the whole thing would be traumatic, feelings raw, reliving that evening, the police were useless and focusing on the group rather than elsewhere as they should be doing, it would not help find Maddie.... you might just feel pressured into declining to take part. He had witnessed the couple after the event, maybe he felt immese sympathy and simply had no reason to doubt their claims at the time.
Warned or bought off both distinct possibilities however. There was the interfering with witnesses going on.

by **tigger** 06.09.12 13:38

russiandoll wrote:
Ross wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Why did JW not want to do the reconstruction?
Warned off? Bought off?

Heaven knows. I guess if you were told the whole thing would be traumatic, feelings raw, reliving that evening, the police were useless and focusing on the group rather than elsewhere as they should be doing, it would not help find Maddie.... you might just feel pressured into declining to take part. He had witnessed the couple after the event, maybe he felt immese sympathy and simply had no reason to doubt their claims at the time.
Warned or bought off both distinct possibilities however. There was the interfering with witnesses going on.

Ross meant on the night itself I think. JW had quite enough of the McCanns I believe - he did complain about the fact that he never stated an exact time and Gerry had tried several times to press him on 9.15. If you read his account it's likely to be earlier. Since he didn't want to commit to even an approximate time - perhaps that was the reason. I don't know if he was asked to do the reconstruction by the PJ.

If you read the unterdenteppichgekehrt blog (above and on the topic on the timeline from 8.00 pm) I would think that he wasn't so much a spanner as a godsend.

by russiandoll 06.09.12 13:47

I am not sure about Ross meaning the same night Tigger, can you explain please?
I understand the point about JW being very convenient in one way, however the whole scenario despite giving Gerry an alibi at abduction time is implausible, 3 people including 2 associated with the abducted child only yards away when the abductor would have been seen and Maddie recognised by her pjs bottoms, if Gerry had been disturbed by noise and looked around him.
imo Gerry JT and ROB were preparing for the walkabout with Ella, I do not think Gerry wanted the disturbance of JW.
I also think that theory claims that Gerry was forced to place a large bag with Maddies body inside in the area of the flowerbed, because he was leaving the apartment to place the bag in a waiting car. I think if that were the case Gerry was very cool under the circumstances .

by **tigger** 06.09.12 14:19

russiandoll wrote: I am not sure about Ross meaning the same night Tigger, can you explain please?
I understand the point about JW being very convenient in one way, however the whole scenario despite giving Gerry an alibi at abduction time is implausible, 3 people including 2 associated with the abducted child only yards away when the abductor would have been seen and Maddie recognised by her pjs bottoms, if Gerry had been disturbed by noise and looked around him.
imo Gerry JT and ROB were preparing for the walkabout with Ella, I do not think Gerry wanted the disturbance of JW.
I also think that theory claims that Gerry was forced to place a large bag with Maddies body inside in the area of the flowerbed, because he was leaving the apartment to place the bag in a waiting car. I think if that were the case Gerry was very cool under the circumstances .

You're right, he didn't - I misread, apologies! smilie

As far as the bag goes: imo the body was long gone. Far too risky. The bag was back in the wardrobe so that would mean it had been emptied shortly before being put back?
The scent in the flowerbed etc. The S and R GNR dogs would certainly pick up scent and the real point is: The McCanns couldn't know when exactly the dogs were to be deployed. It might have been within a few hours.

by jd 06.09.12 14:24

tigger wrote:
Ross meant on the night itself I think. JW had quite enough of the McCanns I believe - he did complain about the fact that he never stated an exact time and Gerry had tried several times to press him on 9.15. If you read his account it's likely to be earlier. Since he didn't want to commit to even an approximate time - perhaps that was the reason. I don't know if he was asked to do the reconstruction by the PJ.

If you read the unterdenteppichgekehrt blog (above and on the topic on the timeline from 8.00 pm) I would think that he wasn't so much a spanner as a godsend.

He was and he refused....

"As discussed with your colleagues last week I still feel reluctant to agree to this for a number of reasons including family and work commitments, the likelyhood of media intrusion and a lack of information about anything tangible or constructive that is likely to be achieved by doing this."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id279.html

by russiandoll 06.09.12 14:28

jd, thanks for finding that re- JW and the reconstruction. So he gave the same reasons as the tapas friends....that nothing would be achieved. How interesting.