Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

[Guest]

Didn't I say we would have front page headlines in the Sunday Express............



Underneath the main heading is

McCanns lawyer lifts the lid

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Crucial clues that could have solved the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance were never followed up by Portuguese police, the Sunday Express says.

[Trigger1985]

Trigger. Can you copy and put the last two posts in the Kennedy putting in a bid for Rangers thread please. I will then delete these in here. This is about the Panorama programme and Andy Redwoods interviews etc. Thank you.

ETA please add links to those articles.

This thread......

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My apologies. I will do so.

[tuom]

from John Blacksmith, The Blacksmith Bureau - good read......

Saturday, 28 April 2012

Benny Hill's Alive Too

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TY interesting article ...

[Woofer]

from John Blacksmith, The Blacksmith Bureau - good read......

Saturday, 28 April 2012

Benny Hill's Alive Too

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TY interesting article ...

Seems Trigger is too.



Excellent article by Blacksmith, thanks Candyfloss.

[Trigger1985]

Didn't I say we would have front page headlines in the Sunday Express............



Underneath the main heading is

McCanns lawyer lifts the lid

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Crucial clues that could have solved the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance were never followed up by Portuguese police, the Sunday Express says.

Indeed you did. 'Tis like a metronome.

[Trigger1985]

Re: BK - Be careful there`s nothing libellous - remember the forthcoming case. Havn`t there already been warnings?

Trigger - do you still pull the fastest milkcart in the West?

Thank you for the warning. Of course there is nothing there in libel law, I simply cut and pasted two relevant articles from The Scottish Daily Record and the mccanfiles, who sourced it from the mainstream press.

I am sure more able minds than mine own notice that Brian Kennedy is apparently worth 3,600,000,000...

Ergo. A hypothetical thought...

I trust interested observers, with a great deal more mathematical ability than myself, will be able to divide two million pounds into 3600m (as Newsnight like to scribe our country's demise)...

I make that, the Scotland Yard expenditure so far, 2m : 3600m

That is 1m : 1800m

Which is an 0.72% figure. I expect even Mr Brown might understand.

I

[jd]

Crucial clues that could have solved the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance were never followed up by Portuguese police, the Sunday Express says.

Will they say what the clues actually are or just waffle on?

[justme3]

Crucial clues that could have solved the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance were never followed up by Portuguese police, the Sunday Express says.

Will they say what the clues actually are or just waffle on?

So says McCanns' lawyer, who "lifts the lid on promising leads police ignored"

Again, we all know what the lawyer is going to say, don't we?

[russiandoll]

an hour ago on Sky the only comments from 2 people talking front pages and mentioning Express were about all the other missing children and more robust procedures need to be in place
the host asked was it so complex now due to crime occurring abroad and a flawed initial investigation

fuller paper preview now and one of the contributors is the barrister who covered the Jackson manslaughter trial...wonder what he will say with his legal hat on
the host has only elaborated in initial intro with Maddie case, "vital clues to solve the mystery"

[Lady-Heather]

100% LadyHeather. The McCanns are being protected, but only to take the heat off a bigger picture IMO. Dots join, they may be on the periphery but my money is on another 2 elements within the group connected outwards to the bigger picture, too many coincidences.

Can you flesh this out a bit? The Mccanns are being protected from what exactly and for what reason? And they are going along with a lie because?

Well two people within the group have been more prominent in the discussions, Payne and Tanner. You'll be aware of a lot of the background that's out there in the public domain, there are many co-incidences and correspondences which are mind boggling when listed. I don't "do" all the cross referencing back and forth, bad enough keeping up with the main topics of the day, so I normally don't involve myself in in-depth analysis on here, leave it to those better at it!! But, if you look at the Bergau thread, look up Exeter connections, Gaspar statements which media ignored and so forth, Yvonne Martin statement, then look at other co-incidences like Murats girlfriend being a Jehovahs Witness, as is the McCann funder, Brian Kennedy, discussions around Smethurst .....it just goes on. I think there is a picture that can be developed, a theory to be purported. If the whole crony network that appears to have developed around this case gets dissected and examined as a result of, maybe the McCanns being investigated, well who knows.........I'll say no more on the matter, it's all just speculation, myth a rumour [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'll name no names for two reasons: 1. I don't know; 2, I would like this forum to continue to exist. In order to flesh this out a bit, here's some thoughts:

1. Imagine you are that satellite orbiting overhead. Zoom out - right out all the way to the date & location: Praia da Luz, April 29th - May 5th 2007.

2. Then zoom in a bit - who was there? Group them in terms of locals, holidaymakers, business, law-enforcement. Other. Then eliminate those persons who are of no interest.

3. Zoom in a bit more. Who's left? any patterns, coincidences, relations to each other - in any conceivable way. Who are they? Why were they there?

4. Then ask questions of the locals - how are they feeling, what's the gossip? Anyone scared? If so, why and of whom?

5. Then move on to the McCanns. Their daughter disappeared - they told the world about it via Sky etc. Drew attention to themselves, their associates, their location, their connections.

Remember at this point that this mess is 'a matter of national security', according to Gordon Brown. Why? At this point go back to point 2.

It's all out there in the PJ files, in the interviews given by the locals and holidaymakers at the time, the photos, Amaral's book. What gets lost in all this is what happened to Madeleine - I still cling to a hope that she's alive, poor soul, but logic tells me otherwise.

[Trigger1985]

Theresa May is the Home Secretary and wasn't she against a review? Didn't the Sun/ McCann's go over her head with the open letter to DC?

I'd love to know if she was personally against a review or if she was just passing on the view that the police didn't want to do it.

IIRC the McCanns went over her head. I also remember Sir Paul Stephenson saying it was his decision to take the case on after the Home Secretary asked him, as if he was saying he didn`t have to but decided, as the murder rate was down, they might as well. But I think a couple of directors on the MET committee were against SPS doing so.

Though I believe the MET is answerable to the Home Secretary and always has been since the MET was created by Sir Robert Peel. I could be wrong though.

Mr Woofer, you seem like a decent cove. Some information on Yates and Stephenson of the Yard.

Warning, their are one or two expletives:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[jd]

an hour ago on Sky the only comments from 2 people talking front pages and mentioning Express were about all the other missing children and more robust procedures need to be in place
the host asked was it so complex now due to crime occurring abroad and a flawed initial investigation

fuller paper preview now and one of the contributors is the barrister who covered the Jackson manslaughter trial...wonder what he will say with his legal hat on
the host has only elaborated in initial intro with Maddie case, "vital clues to solve the mystery"

They totally ignored it!!!

[Trigger1985]

100% LadyHeather. The McCanns are being protected, but only to take the heat off a bigger picture IMO. Dots join, they may be on the periphery but my money is on another 2 elements within the group connected outwards to the bigger picture, too many coincidences.

Can you flesh this out a bit? The Mccanns are being protected from what exactly and for what reason? And they are going along with a lie because?

Well two people within the group have been more prominent in the discussions, Payne and Tanner. You'll be aware of a lot of the background that's out there in the public domain, there are many co-incidences and correspondences which are mind boggling when listed. I don't "do" all the cross referencing back and forth, bad enough keeping up with the main topics of the day, so I normally don't involve myself in in-depth analysis on here, leave it to those better at it!! But, if you look at the Bergau thread, look up Exeter connections, Gaspar statements which media ignored and so forth, Yvonne Martin statement, then look at other co-incidences like Murats girlfriend being a Jehovahs Witness, as is the McCann funder, Brian Kennedy, discussions around Smethurst .....it just goes on. I think there is a picture that can be developed, a theory to be purported. If the whole crony network that appears to have developed around this case gets dissected and examined as a result of, maybe the McCanns being investigated, well who knows.........I'll say no more on the matter, it's all just speculation, myth a rumour [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'll name no names for two reasons: 1. I don't know; 2, I would like this forum to continue to exist. In order to flesh this out a bit, here's some thoughts:

1. Imagine you are that satellite orbiting overhead. Zoom out - right out all the way to the date & location: Praia da Luz, April 29th - May 5th 2007.

2. Then zoom in a bit - who was there? Group them in terms of locals, holidaymakers, business, law-enforcement. Other. Then eliminate those persons who are of no interest.

3. Zoom in a bit more. Who's left? any patterns, coincidences, relations to each other - in any conceivable way. Who are they? Why were they there?

4. Then ask questions of the locals - how are they feeling, what's the gossip? Anyone scared? If so, why and of whom?

5. Then move on to the McCanns. Their daughter disappeared - they told the world about it via Sky etc. Drew attention to themselves, their associates, their location, their connections.

Remember at this point that this mess is 'a matter of national security', according to Gordon Brown. Why? At this point go back to point 2.

It's all out there in the PJ files, in the interviews given by the locals and holidaymakers at the time, the photos, Amaral's book. What gets lost in all this is what happened to Madeleine - I still cling to a hope that she's alive, poor soul, but logic tells me otherwise.

We "amateurs" have already pieced together who was there, and who left very unexpectedly early, as if multiple fires occurred in each of their dens.

Scotland Yard know all this. I'm sure you know that too, Lady Heather.

[Guest]

Have you transferred those posts Trigger?

[Trigger1985]

Have you transferred those posts Trigger?

Not yet candyfloss. I am busy researching, as I think at last we are making some headway. I will certainly do so Sunday morning. In the meantime, for Mr Wooter, I'm afraid I gave you the wrong URL ref Mr Stephenson. This is the pertinent information:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[roy rovers]

Back to Andy Redwood and Panorama. The SY review team have probably already been told by the Crown Prosecution Service that in the absence of a body or a retraction from one of the T7 there is little prospect at the present time of a successful prosecution. Even if everything on this forum was included in the prosecution it wouldn't stick if the Mccanns had a half decent defence team to cast reasonable doubt and with the massive public sympathy that they enjoy. So what do SY do - they strengthen their case by eliminating all the supposed leads to give the McCanns less wriggle room when that fateful day finally arrives. That's what Andy Redwood's about at present.

[Woofer]

Mr Woofer, you seem like a decent cove. Some information on Yates and Stephenson of the Yard.

Warning, their are one or two expletives:

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjlkMHvwQpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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No holding back there, eh?

[TheTruthWillOut]

@Trigger, Lady-Heather and Smokeandmirrors. Do you guy's/girl's have an idea what this thing/person is that is being protected that is a national security matter?

I have read of various theories over the years but if this was about a much bigger "thing", why hasn't Amaral said anything about it? (though I could have missed the hints! )

[Trigger1985]

Back to Andy Redwood and Panorama. The SY review team have probably already been told by the Crown Prosecution Service that in the absence of a body or a retraction from one of the T7 there is little prospect at the present time of a successful prosecution. Even if everything on this forum was included in the prosecution it wouldn't stick if the Mccanns had a half decent defence team to cast reasonable doubt and with the massive public sympathy that they enjoy. So what do SY do - they strengthen their case by eliminating all the supposed leads to give the McCanns less wriggle room when that fateful day finally arrives. That's what Andy Redwood's about at present.

I take it you are one of Her Majesty's finest. I would be interested in your comments on the two London taxi driver videos I posted. There is little prospect of anything, as imo the Met is corrupt, UK plc is corrupt. Years ago I did the three day selection course at Hendon, got the final grilling from three very senior Policemen at Paddington, and was offered a job. After much reflection, I declined. I did the right thing.

Have you ever, Roy, heard of David Puttnam?

Ofcom architect Lord Puttnam says Leveson has uncovered a "banana republic": corrupt press, corrupt police, corrupt politicians #newsnight

[monkey mind]

@Trigger, Lady-Heather and Smokeandmirrors. Do you guy's/girl's have an idea what this thing/person is that is being protected that is a national security matter?

I have read of various theories over the years but if this was about a much bigger "thing", why hasn't Amaral said anything about it? (though I could have missed the hints! )

Ooooh, bit woosy now am I, 'jection tooth must be.
protection blackmail same in my book 'jection must be
mirror has two sides which side you look, 'ouch jection must be
Young was I so long ago but even though 'jection must be
I remember your meaningless now famous face, and call my favours......

Can't believe I said that, jection must be....

[rainbow-fairy]

@Trigger, Lady-Heather and Smokeandmirrors. Do you guy's/girl's have an idea what this thing/person is that is being protected that is a national security matter?

I have read of various theories over the years but if this was about a much bigger "thing", why hasn't Amaral said anything about it? (though I could have missed the hints! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] )

Hi TheTruthWillOut.
I have intimated several times what I believe the cover-up stems from. Gonçalo has made passing references I believe, however his ex-wife was much more emphatic. Do you recall when she said "We would not invite *persons of that persuasion* into our circle of friends".

Another hint - Gaspar statements, and Team McCanns very early insistence MBM had been 'taken by a paedophile'.
Its the only thing I can think of so heinous that the public would not forgive (after all, many seem to have forgiven if not outright condoned the 'neglect' (which I don't believe happened, personally)

[TheTruthWillOut]

@Trigger, Lady-Heather and Smokeandmirrors. Do you guy's/girl's have an idea what this thing/person is that is being protected that is a national security matter?

I have read of various theories over the years but if this was about a much bigger "thing", why hasn't Amaral said anything about it? (though I could have missed the hints! )

Ooooh, bit woosy now am I, 'jection tooth must be.
protection blackmail same in my book 'jection must be
mirror has two sides which side you look, 'ouch jection must be
Young was I so long ago but even though 'jection must be
I remember your meaningless now famous face, and call my favours......

Can't believe I said that, jection must be....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It is late and need sleep. I'll come back to this tomorrow (if it isn't a joke!)

[Trigger1985]

100% LadyHeather. The McCanns are being protected, but only to take the heat off a bigger picture IMO. Dots join, they may be on the periphery but my money is on another 2 elements within the group connected outwards to the bigger picture, too many coincidences.

Can you flesh this out a bit? The Mccanns are being protected from what exactly and for what reason? And they are going along with a lie because?

Well two people within the group have been more prominent in the discussions, Payne and Tanner. You'll be aware of a lot of the background that's out there in the public domain, there are many co-incidences and correspondences which are mind boggling when listed. I don't "do" all the cross referencing back and forth, bad enough keeping up with the main topics of the day, so I normally don't involve myself in in-depth analysis on here, leave it to those better at it!! But, if you look at the Bergau thread, look up Exeter connections, Gaspar statements which media ignored and so forth, Yvonne Martin statement, then look at other co-incidences like Murats girlfriend being a Jehovahs Witness, as is the McCann funder, Brian Kennedy, discussions around Smethurst .....it just goes on. I think there is a picture that can be developed, a theory to be purported. If the whole crony network that appears to have developed around this case gets dissected and examined as a result of, maybe the McCanns being investigated, well who knows.........I'll say no more on the matter, it's all just speculation, myth a rumour

Dear Smoke and Mirrors,

It is very late. I was perusing several important missives. Your astute post above mentions the JW term.

The article I posted earlier describes how £3,600,000,000 Mr Kennedy is allegedly a Jehovah's Witness. I think it is a pity that he is not an MM witness. For those that may not know, JWs are extremely fundamental. Some might go further. They do have a habit of knocking on doors, and bothering people. Masses of leads say witnesses were "door stepped" - much like a double glazing salesman might do, or a true believer JW.

[monkey mind]

@Trigger, Lady-Heather and Smokeandmirrors. Do you guy's/girl's have an idea what this thing/person is that is being protected that is a national security matter?

I have read of various theories over the years but if this was about a much bigger "thing", why hasn't Amaral said anything about it? (though I could have missed the hints! )

Ooooh, bit woosy now am I, 'jection tooth must be.
protection blackmail same in my book 'jection must be
mirror has two sides which side you look, 'ouch jection must be
Young was I so long ago but even though 'jection must be
I remember your meaningless now famous face, and call my favours......

Can't believe I said that, jection must be....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It is late and need sleep. I'll come back to this tomorrow (if it isn't a joke!)

Of course it is a joke. And it has absolutely nothing to do with dentists injections or teeth. A joke, a tired one, from a tired man.

[Zozo]

...
They have said what they think has happened, a stranger crime, and that is how they will unflinchingly pursue the investigation unless some monumental piece of evidence arises which is impossible to ignore. I'm not happy to say this but I know what I am talking about here.
....

Good post Monkeymind.
What you are saying here of "monumental piece of evidence", I think IMO those evidences are already there but they have been manupilated and made them inconclusive just to protect the Mccanns.

Beside many inconsistencies in the T9 statements and the behaviour of the Mccanns, there are those blood and death scent dogs findings, with which samples taken from the Mcanns house and car were sent into the British forensics laboratory for analysis and to be returned saying there were inconclusive. Someone or a group of people have manupilated maybe to avoid the mccann going in foreign country jail or for other reason.

SY doesn't want at any cost to go back in review of those findings. Because if they accept to make a proper review of them and at the end gives differents results which incriminate the Mccanns and proove without doubt the death of madeleine, this could trigger public inquiry and anger of what went wrong with the first results which was said to be inconclusive, which of course will point out the responsibles of that corruption and manupilation of the first results. The responsible of course are ones of their own who works in their forensics laboratory. SY is well aware of this situation without doubt.
Someone says that "Cops don't hang one of their own". Which is the position the SY is now. And i think many of you here on this forum knows how is very very hard to convict a police man found criminaly against civilian. There has been such cases in UK which has been reveal to be very to build a case for trial.

SY doen't want to go that road not only they don't want to hang one of their own but also the backlash of bad reputation and high level corruption revealed, not only to the british public but also worldwide can be huge.

Because all of this said above, the Mccanns are very sure that the british police or SY will never go back in the review of those dogs findings, thats why we see them miltiplying their arrogance statement, sueing people here and there.

Thats why in my point of view, as i said before, we will have to wait 100 years or more, the mystery of this case to be solved when there will be no one involved in the case still alive.

[Trigger1985]

The rumors endemic in PDL and Portugal = swinging. Let's call a spade a spade. This is a rumor, not an accusation. I have no problem with couples holIidaying together. As dear Kate said, paraphrased - "we were so into each other" - the problem comes when an Infant (3) are left alone to fend for themselves. Whilst the Hippocratic Oath hypocrites are gettIng drunk, and more besides. The night of "panic" allegedly 12-15 bottles of wine were consumed.

Was it "Dutch Courage"?








[/quote]
Hi TheTruthWillOut.
I have intimated several times what I believe the cover-up stems from. Gonçalo has made passing references I believe, however his ex-wife was much more emphatic. Do you recall when she said "We would not invite *persons of that persuasion* into our circle of friends".

Another hint - Gaspar statements, and Team McCanns very early insistence MBM had been 'taken by a paedophile'.
Its the only thing I can think of so heinous that the public would not forgive (after all, many seem to have forgiven if not outright condoned the 'neglect' (which I don't believe happened, personally)[/quote]

[Trigger1985]

@Trigger, Lady-Heather and Smokeandmirrors. Do you guy's/girl's have an idea what this thing/person is that is being protected that is a national security matter?

I have read of various theories over the years but if this was about a much bigger "thing", why hasn't Amaral said anything about it? (though I could have missed the hints! )

Ooooh, bit woosy now am I, 'jection tooth must be.
protection blackmail same in my book 'jection must be
mirror has two sides which side you look, 'ouch jection must be
Young was I so long ago but even though 'jection must be
I remember your meaningless now famous face, and call my favours......

Can't believe I said that, jection must be....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It is late and need sleep. I'll come back to this tomorrow (if it isn't a joke!)

Of course it is a joke. And it has absolutely nothing to do with dentists injections or teeth. A joke, a tired one, from a tired man.

Please return. You are an inspiration.

[Trigger1985]

@Trigger, Lady-Heather and Smokeandmirrors. Do you guy's/girl's have an idea what this thing/person is that is being protected that is a national security matter?

I have read of various theories over the years but if this was about a much bigger "thing", why hasn't Amaral said anything about it? (though I could have missed the hints! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] )




Sorry. My response about swinging was aimed at your findings. I have an aberrant browser.

Hi TheTruthWillOut.
I have intimated several times what I believe the cover-up stems from. Gonçalo has made passing references I believe, however his ex-wife was much more emphatic. Do you recall when she said "We would not invite *persons of that persuasion* into our circle of friends".

Another hint - Gaspar statements, and Team McCanns very early insistence MBM had been 'taken by a paedophile'.
Its the only thing I can think of so heinous that the public would not forgive (after all, many seem to have forgiven if not outright condoned the 'neglect' (which I don't believe happened, personally)

[aiyoyo]

no tirgger u will find the police do NOT report to the government

You will find endless explanations on wiki and elsewhere, the fact is that the British Government asked Scotland Yard to do a review, and they budgeted several million pounds for it. I hardly think the Queen is behind all this, and/or is crossing the Ts and dotting the Is.

That does not change the fact that by Constitution the Police allegiance is to the Crown Prosecution Service.

BTW, no offense, but I find your screen name easily confused with another poster "tigger". I dont know whether you realised that, and I will be surprised if I am the only the one who think that!
What if a newbie were to come along and decides to have a screen name of "aiyoyoyo"? Confusing no?

[Ribisl]

BTW, no offense, but I find your screen name easily confused with another poster "tigger". I dont know whether you realised that, and I will be surprised if I am the only the one who think that!
What if a newbie were to come along and decides to have a screen name of "aiyoyoyo"? Confusing no?

Trigger - I too was confused by your choice of name. Maybe you would consider asking admin to modify it so we don't get the two of you mixed up in a thread? Just a suggestion