Truth is the daughter of time

What with some members falling ill and others in despair in seeing the same lies paraded on TV time and time again - I thought this quote may be a reminder that simply by treading water sometimes, we are still doing useful work.

So come on, make a list of what's been accomplished that is solid and unchangeable evidence available in the public domain.

I will have to start with http://www.mccannfiles.com/id405.html - the brilliant analyses of the Fund by Enid O'Dowd, FCA.
.

So come on, information that is in the public domain - let's just for once have a topic where we can put concrete evidence and cut through all the flak that's thrown at us.

1. The fact that the patio area of the apartment was NOT visible from the tapas area.
2. The fact that "as the crow flies" is irrelevant, that the apartment was not within boundary walls, was part of a residential complex outside the poolside area and that the proximity of the tapas area to 5a is a smoke and mirrors issue. The reality is that a 3 year old child left in an unlocked apartment would have to negotiate steep stone steps, know the direction to turn, walk along a road and then turn again to enter that area.
3. The fact that Kate Mc Cann stated in a tv interview that she did not physically search for their daughter but had been "working really hard ".
4. The fact that Kate Mc Cann has stated elsewhere that only she, Gerry, her immediate circle and locals were bothering to search, a lack of police activity when it is officially documented that the police were present and searching throughout the early hours of May 4th 2007.

The 'alibi' given to GM by meeting JW is worthless.

Jeremy Wilkins' third statement to British Police 8-4-2008 (see McCannfiles)

Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007;

As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time.

Jeremy Wilkins has stated several times that it it impossible to give the exact time he met Gerry McCann. He gives a window of half an hour.
Therefore it is only from GM that we can take the 'exact' time he met JW.
Therefore this meeting cannot be used in evidence and certainly not to create a timeline.

The fact that a child DISAPPEARED and is MISSING. Therefore words like 'taken' and 'abducted' are only theories, not factual!

The coloboma.
There are photographs of Maddie where it isn't visible at all, mostly in stills from videos. In many photos it is either at 6 or 7 o'clock. It cannot move so therefore there is something wrong with the photographs and not the eye.

This feature would instantly identify a child as being Maddie McCann since the condition is rare and taking age, appearance and coloboma together with 'provenance' would make the identification pretty well 100% accurate.

In May 2011, in an interview with Piers Morgan, this feature was said to be a mere 'fleck' and not really noticeable unless one was very close.

Evidence of existence of this feature provided by the McCanns themselves on many occasions and denied on camera by the McCanns four years after the disappearance just when the SY review had started.

Domain findmadeleine.com was registered on 10th May 2007

Created On: 10-May-2007 00
Expiration Date: 10-May-2012 00
Sponsoring Registrar: TUCOWS (TUCOWS)
Status: client_transfer_prohibited,client_update_prohibited

Registrant Name: N/A
Registrant Organization: Unknown
Registrant Street1: 27
Registrant Street2: Pulteney Street
Registrant Street3: Unknown
Registrant City: Ullapool
Registrant State/Province: Highland
Registrant Postal Code: IV26 2UP
Registrant Country: GB
Registrant Phone: Unknown
Registrant Fax: Unknown
Registrant Email: Unknown

Admin Name: MacRae Cameron
Admin Organization: Unknown
Admin Street1: 27
Admin Street2: Pulteney Street
Admin Street3: Unknown
Admin City: Ullapool
Admin State/Province:
Admin Postal Code: IV26 2UP
Admin Country: GB
Admin Phone: +441854612821
Admin Fax: Unknown
Admin Email: cameron@infohost.co.uk

From: GerryMcCannsblog days 1 - 50 McCannfiles.com
DAY 23 26/05/2007
3rd - OFFICIAL WEBSITE REGISTERED AS
www.cuddlecat.co.uk - LINKED TO
www.findmadeleine.com - LINKED TO
www.bringmadeleinehome.com Domain tools

Two weeks after their daughter is abducted by a paedophile - according to the parents - a domain name is registered which indicates strongly that it is for a commercial purpose.

This domain name is clearly not necessary either for raising funds or finding the child, two registered domain names already exist for this purpose.
The Fund name has been trademarked and is in no danger of being hijacked by third parties.
Therefore this shows unusual business acumen in the circumstances.

Personally, I think they would have launched it, but Clarrie may have vetoed it, one website too far. He also stopped Gerry from organizing a photoshoot for the press with Kate in her swimsuit. Clarrie did have his sensible moments - just think what alarm bells would have started up with the public:
Fund, OK. Cuddlecat, Why? Next you'd expect a PinkBlanket.co.uk to emerge.

I didn't realise they tried to commercialize cuddlecat in such early days.

And these people were supposed to be searching for their daughter!

aiyoyo wrote:

I didn't realise they tried to commercialize cuddlecat in such early days.

And these people were supposed to be searching for their daughter!

Well - ya know - we were working really hard !!!

The DNA in the car:
The Leveson Inquiry November 2011:
Re: Leveson Enquiry 23/11/11 - McCanns to give evidence
Stella on Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:57 pm

Kate McCann, "Headline said, it was her blood in parents car - totally untrue"

Gerry McCann, "Madeleine's DNA was not recovered from our hire car"

But the forensic reports disagree with both of them !!!

Processo pdf10 page 121-122 [2615-2616]

Ex.mo Sr. Coordenador de Investigacao Criminal

Serve a presente para proceder à juncao de um relatorio de exame laboratorial efectuado em Inglaterra, escrito em lingua inglesa e traduzido para portugues, entregue a esta policia no dia 04 de Setembro de 2007 pelo oficial de policia ingles Struart Prior.

Este relatorio laboratorial diz respeito aos exames efectuados a duas recolhas de vestigios, uma atras do sofa da sala de estar do apartamento 5A e outra na bagageira do veiculo utilizado pela familia MCCANN, em regime de aluguer, a partir do final do mes de Maio do corrente ano.

Em qualquer destas recolhas (amostras) foi encontrado ADN cujos componentes tambem se encontram no perfil de MADELEINE MCCANN.

No tocante aos vestigios recolhidos atras do sofa todos os componentes confirmados de ADN coincidem com os componentes correspondentes no perfil de ADN de MADELEINE MCCANN.

Na amostra recolhida na bagageira do veiculo, 15 dos componentes de ADN identificados coincidem com os componentes correspondentes no perfil de ADN de MADELEINE MCCANN, este de 19 componentes.

Portimao, 11 de Septembro de 2007
O Inspector,

(Joao Carlos)
translation:

In each of these samples DNA was found, the components of which were also found in the profile of Madeleine McCann.

As regards the samples collected from behind the sofa, all of the confirmed DNA components coincided with the corresponding components of the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann.

In the sample collected from the luggage boot of the car, 15 of the DNA components that were identified coincide with the corresponding components of the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann, which is composed of 19 components.
unquote
_____________
And in the Swedish interview, four months later:

Skavlan: There were rumours about DNA in the car... in the car that you hired?

Gerry McCann:
And we want to be
absolutely clear about these things, you know, there's two aspects: we
didn't hire that car for
3 and half weeks until [i]after
Madeleine was taken, and the second aspect is there's no DNA match.
Errr... You
know, when you see the
files there's a mixed sample of DNA that comes from 5 people and
obviously some of it matched Madeleine's.
But of course, all, of
our DNA matches Madeleine's_....
unquote

tigger wrote:The DNA in the car:
The Leveson Inquiry November 2011:
Re: Leveson Enquiry 23/11/11 - McCanns to give evidence
Stella on Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:57 pm

Kate McCann, "Headline said, it was her blood in parents car - totally untrue"

Gerry McCann, "Madeleine's DNA was not recovered from our hire car"

But the forensic reports disagree with both of them !!!

Processo pdf10 page 121-122 [2615-2616]

Ex.mo Sr. Coordenador de Investigacao Criminal

Serve a presente para proceder à juncao de um relatorio de exame laboratorial efectuado em Inglaterra, escrito em lingua inglesa e traduzido para portugues, entregue a esta policia no dia 04 de Setembro de 2007 pelo oficial de policia ingles Struart Prior.

Este relatorio laboratorial diz respeito aos exames efectuados a duas recolhas de vestigios, uma atras do sofa da sala de estar do apartamento 5A e outra na bagageira do veiculo utilizado pela familia MCCANN, em regime de aluguer, a partir do final do mes de Maio do corrente ano.

Em qualquer destas recolhas (amostras) foi encontrado ADN cujos componentes tambem se encontram no perfil de MADELEINE MCCANN.

No tocante aos vestigios recolhidos atras do sofa todos os componentes confirmados de ADN coincidem com os componentes correspondentes no perfil de ADN de MADELEINE MCCANN.

Na amostra recolhida na bagageira do veiculo, 15 dos componentes de ADN identificados coincidem com os componentes correspondentes no perfil de ADN de MADELEINE MCCANN, este de 19 componentes.

Portimao, 11 de Septembro de 2007
O Inspector,

(Joao Carlos)
translation:

In each of these samples DNA was found, the components of which were also found in the profile of Madeleine McCann.

As regards the samples collected from behind the sofa, all of the confirmed DNA components coincided with the corresponding components of the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann.

In the sample collected from the luggage boot of the car, 15 of the DNA components that were identified coincide with the corresponding components of the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann, which is composed of 19 components.
unquote
_____________
And in the Swedish interview, four months later:

Skavlan: There were rumours about DNA in the car... in the car that you hired?

Gerry McCann:
And we want to be
absolutely clear about these things, you know, there's two aspects: we
didn't hire that car for
3 and half weeks until after
Madeleine was taken, and the second aspect is there's no DNA match.
Errr... You
know, when you see the
files there's a mixed sample of DNA that comes [i]from 5 people and
obviously some of it matched Madeleine's.
But of course, all, of
our DNA matches Madeleine's_....
unquote

Some thoughts. Slightly off topic.

From five people? Which five? GA clearly is counting only himself, his wife and the twins: 'all of our DNA matches Madeleine's'.

If one of these five is Maddie, then how did her DNA get into the car?

In the spare wheel well, to be precise. Is that where he put his wife and his two remaining children? (joke)

Or did all of them finger the car key?

GM is very sure all four familiy members shared the same DNA, it appears. How can he be so sure? Why and when were they tested?

Does he, himself, really share Madeleine's DNA?

If not, then he's in for some explaining, if and when found out. Surely, as a cardiologist, he cannot be that obtuse, or can he?

Yes, I'm trying not to derail this, because it would be nice to have a topic with nothing but incontrovertible evidence with links where needed. So no theories, but evidence which is already in the public domain.

I should have added to the DNA post that Gerry seems to think we're all idiots. He is in effect saying that because their DNA is in the back of the car, it can be mistaken for that of Madeleine, because hers must be a mix of theirs.
He is telling us that individual DNA cannot be separated once it's in a mix.

Which is absolutely wrong - the beauty of DNA is that individual DNA profiles can be extracted from a mix. How clear the result is going to be depends on the degree of degradation of the samples. The FSS first and imo true result showed a very good match with Maddie.

I know you know all this Portia, but it should have been in my post to clarify. We're not the only ones reading this.

The coloboma.

I don't think we can allow this in a list of facts Tigger.

The only facts about this are that in the summer of 2007, Gerry was happy to wear a T-shirt showing a picture of Madeleine with a coloboma, Kate was happy to hold up posters showing Madeleine with a coloboma.

Fast forward to May 2011 - the picture on the front of Kate's book shows Madeleine with a coloboma.

A few weeks later (can't remember when exactly) in an interview with Piers Morgan, they stated that 'to be honest, we never made much of her eye' and that 'it was just a fleck'. ['You could have fooled me', was what I thought at the time.]

The only fact is that they say there was a coloboma in 2007 but say there wasn't in summer 2011.

tigger wrote:Yes, I'm trying not to derail this, because it would be nice to have a topic with nothing but incontrovertible evidence with links where needed. So no theories, but evidence which is already in the public domain.

I should have added to the DNA post that Gerry seems to think we're all idiots. He is in effect saying that because their DNA is in the back of the car, it can be mistaken for that of Madeleine, because hers must be a mix of theirs.
He is telling us that individual DNA cannot be separated once it's in a mix.

Which is absolutely wrong - the beauty of DNA is that individual DNA profiles can be extracted from a mix. How clear the result is going to be depends on the degree of degradation of the samples. The FSS first and imo true result showed a very good match with Maddie.

I know you know all this Portia, but it should have been in my post to clarify. We're not the only ones reading this.

Tigger,
Since this is supposed to be only evidence supported thread instead of mixed with theories, why not open up another thread for it titled: "Discussion of Truth is the Daughter of Time" or something like it.

Then put in the link at end of your signature, or at the end of the post, or indicate somewhere visibly , so that people can click on it and it takes people straight into discussion of it thread.

You might also want to shift the evidence from the rest into the two threads.

Miraflores wrote:

The coloboma.

I don't think we can allow this in a list of facts Tigger.

The only facts about this are that in the summer of 2007, Gerry was happy to wear a T-shirt showing a picture of Madeleine with a coloboma, Kate was happy to hold up posters showing Madeleine with a coloboma.

Fast forward to May 2011 - the picture on the front of Kate's book shows Madeleine with a coloboma.

A few weeks later (can't remember when exactly) in an interview with Piers Morgan, they stated that 'to be honest, we never made much of her eye' and that 'it was just a fleck'. ['You could have fooled me', was what I thought at the time.]



The only fact is that they say there was a coloboma in 2007 but say there wasn't in summer 2011.

No - I think you're wrong. There is a discussion on record with the PJ when Gerry was told that this feature would mean her death sentence.
It is not based on the use of this in photographs alone.
It's also mentioned in the Vanity Fair interview by Gerry. 2008 I believe.

Here is another quote from https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t752-dr-gerry-mccann-detailed-biography

Madeleine Beth McCann (born 12 May 2003 in Leicester, England) is a British girl, the eldest daughter of Kate McCann, a general practitioner in Melton Mowbray, and Gerry, a cardiologist at Glenfield Hospital in Leicester. Madeleine, who has a brother and a sister, twins Sean and Amelie, two years old, lived with her family in Rothley, England.

A notable identification feature is her right eye that has a type of coloboma, a complete split in the iris (a black radial strip reaching from the pupil out to the edge of the white) at "7 o'clock" position (i.e. about 30° clockwise from the bottom).