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Jane Tanner Liar?

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by Ruby on Mon Jan 04 2010, 14:32

So first you assault with your witty line about me not having a brain, then you top that by blaming me for your being 'hard of understanding'.

Oh dear. never mind
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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by preciousramotswe on Mon Jan 04 2010, 15:03

We have a link to one of the notes, but it's claimed there were two.

Do we know what the other one said, and in what way, if any, did it differ from this one?

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by preciousramotswe on Mon Jan 04 2010, 15:24

Let us look at what Tanner actually said, in its time context:

00.56.47 4078 “And what happened after that?”
Reply “Erm, I think that’s when I went back to the roadside, I sort of looked out of the
roadside door. I think I heard some shouting, erm, so I actually went to sort of put
my head out the roadside door. And I think it was Rachael that I saw first because
she had run back I think to check that G***e was obviously okay. And then I think
Rachael said, you know, she told me what had, you know she said ‘Oh Madeleine’s
gone’ or, you know, something along those lines. And that’s, it was almost
straightaway as she said that I sort of had that, this person sort of came into my head
at that”.
4078 “It was that quick was it after you?”
Reply “It was almost, yeah, I was sort of like, oh, it just sort of seemed a bit, the connection
made, you know, I thought ‘Oh that person was a bit odd’, he sort of seemed a bit, a
bit odd. But I think at that point I was obviously, I think I actually might have
wondered, wondered and, you know, I was sort of thinking ‘Well I’m sure it couldn’t
have been’, but it did come that immediate into my mind”.
4078 “So what happened from then?”
Reply “Erm, well I think I was in a bit of a, I mean, obviously, erm, the next thing I can
remember is seeing Kate and Fiona, they came running from the direction of Kate’s
flat, say sort of along the, sort of it’s, I’ll try and describe how it is, but as you come
into the flats there’s sort of a passageway and there’s flats above so there’s a roof and
there’s a passageway, it’s really badly described, but they came running along there
and they were shouting ‘Madeleine’ and they were like looking in the stairwell and
what have you. And Fi started running upstairs and that’s when I ran to Fi and said
what I thought, you know, I said ‘I think I’ve seen somebody’. I didn’t want to say to
Kate at that point, which might sound odd now, you know, ‘Oh why wouldn’t you say
straight away to Kate’, but, you know, the thought of telling the mother of a child
that you might have seen being carried away is, it’s too horrible to even say.
So I just
said to Fi, erm, you know, ‘I think I might have seen somebody a bit odd when I came
back to do one of the checks’.


So, she told Fiona at that time that she had seen a man carrying a child. This was just after the alarm had been raised. I have italicised the bit I think Himself has quoted.

then:

4078 “Who else did you speak to?”
Reply “I’m trying to think of the order, it was sort of like, it was Rachael first, then it was Fi
and I can’t remember when Russell and Matt came back, they came back at, erm, tut,
I don’t know whether they came back first or I told them or who else was there, but
as soon, the Police, when the Police came, I know Rachael went straight away to get
them to say, so that I could tell the GNR, I think, yeah, the GNR, what I’d seen, but I
don’t know if I told anybody else, I can’t remember when people like Sylvie, who
was the translator, I’m not sure when she arrived whether it was before the Police
arrived or after the Police arrived or whenever, but”.
4078 “But you told the Police when they came?”
Reply “Yeah, when they arrived Rachael I think went and got the GNR and I told the GNR
chap and then when the PJ actually arrived they came and got me to go and talk to
the, the PJ”.


and finally:

Russell was there when I spoke to the PJ, because I can remember Russell
coming in with me when I spoke to the PJ, because there was Russell and Gerry was
there as well in the apartment when I spoke to the PJ. And that was the first time I’d
ever been into their, into Kate and Gerry’s apartment through the whole week, I
hadn’t, it might seem like, but we hadn’t really been into their apartment before”.

01.04.52 4078 “Sorry, was that on the night that Madeleine had disappeared?”
Reply “That was at three o’clock in the morning after she’d disappeared, yeah”.

4078 “Okay. Well tell me about that part then, how did you come to go into Gerry and
Kate’s apartment?”
Reply “Well when the GNR people came, so the first lot of Police, the local Police came,
erm, I spoke to them and I think that was through the translator, which was, I think
she’s called Sylvie, she’s the Head of Housekeeping or something, she was doing the
translating at that point. So I’d spoken to the GNR Police and then when the PJ
came, they came to get me to talk to them to say, to say what, what I’d seen.
And
then I can remember the same GNR person saying to me later on in the night ‘Oh
have you spoken to the PJ’ and I had by that stage, so”.
4078 “So when you went into Gerry and Kate’s apartment who else was there?”
Reply “Erm, I think there was Russ, I think Russell came with me and there was Sylvie who
was the translator. I can’t remember which, there was some, there was a PJ chap was
sitting on the, by the table. And there was Gerry who was standing by the, the
bedroom door”.
4078 “And how was Gerry at that point?”
Reply “Oh he was just, well obviously, obviously distraught. And I think it was quite hard
for me to be saying at that, you know, looking in his face and to be explaining what
I’d seen, at that point was quite hard because, you know, Gerry was obviously

standing there, I don’t know whether, and you sort of think ‘Oh God, here’s me, if I’d
tried to stop them this wouldn’t have happened’ sort of thing. So I think I did feel
sort of a bit obviously guilty at that stage even though I didn’t know whether it was
anything, but obviously you think ‘Oh blo*dy hell, what if I’, not stopped it happened
potentially”.
01.06.30 4078 “And what was Gerry’s reaction to what you said?”
Reply “Well I don’t even know whether he took it in, I mean, he was just, he was, you
know, obviously just standing there looking absolutely horrified, so”.
4078 “And where was Kate?”
Reply “I don’t know at that point, she wasn’t, she wasn’t in the, she wasn’t there. I don’t
know whether, I think they had taken the twins out of the room by that stage, so I
don’t know whether she was up in Dave and Fi’s room”.



I think she is wrong about the time - it's that simple.
She clearly places this telling of the PJ in front of Gerry at 3 in the morning. It wasn't, it was much earlier as is clear from everyone else's account of it, and given that we know that this 'note' was written when a PJ officer was present, it solves the mystery. Kate would not have found out until afterwards because Jane had not told her straight away afterwards and she wasn't in the room when the PJ were there.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by Perelli on Tue Jan 05 2010, 08:53

Ruby wrote:So first you assault with your witty line about me not having a brain, then you top that by blaming me for your being 'hard of understanding'.

Oh dear. never mind

No, merely pointing out that V has a brain does not necessarily preclude you from having one too, but as you say never mind

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by Ruby on Tue Jan 05 2010, 08:59

A new day has begun. How about moving on?
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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by Perelli on Tue Jan 05 2010, 09:04

Ruby wrote:A new day has begun. How about moving on?

Absolutely, here's hoping you will have a good one bashful

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by aliberte2 on Tue Jan 05 2010, 16:28

Ruby wrote:I would if said child had disappeared.

What have you got instead of a heart?

But it Wasn't a McCann who Ripped It - it Was one of the Friends Who Were Searching for a Piece of Paper to Write Down the Timeline To Try and Figure Out When the Missing Child Could Have Went Missing -- Far More Important than Saving a 99 Cent Sticker Book.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by vaguely on Tue Jan 05 2010, 16:56

Ruby wrote:I would if said child had disappeared.

What have you got instead of a heart?

If said child had disappeared I would suggest that everybody had something better to worry about than whether or not a travel sticker book belonged to a child or not. Had they of ripped up a favoured storybook or defaced a photograph of her then I'd take your point.

It is not heartless to tear the cover off of a travel sticker book. I have children. I have travel sticker books. After a day of having them they'd not even notice them going missing.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by aliberte2 on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:00

Indeed. It's Just Another Supposed Evidence of a Black Heart or Something. Too Many of my Fellow Antis Seem to Think that "Why" -- that the McCanns were Involved in Pedophila, Were Mean, Mean to Madeleine, As Evidenced By Other People Ripping Off Sticker Book Covers to Write Timelines About Missing Children On -- Answers Who, What, When, and How.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by Old Nick on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:02

My travel sticker books are very dear to my heart.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by littlepixie on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:03

To me there was something very wrong in them writing that time-line in the first place with their little girl being God knows where.
Was it written to help the Police or to help themselves get off a neglect charge.
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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by vaguely on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:07

littlepixie wrote:To me there was something very wrong in them writing that time-line in the first place with their little girl being God knows where.
Was it written to help the Police or to help themselves get off a neglect charge.

Writing a time would have been recommended. It's not a strange thing to do. They wouldn't be able to piece the evening together verbally. Too many people.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by littlepixie on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:08

Depends when it was written. If it was before the Police arrived what the hell were they doing all sitting down collaborating and not searching.
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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by aliberte2 on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:09

littlepixie wrote:To me there was something very wrong in them writing that time-line in the first place with their little girl being God knows where.
Was it written to help the Police or to help themselves get off a neglect charge.

Really? You think Its Strange That When a Child Went Missing People Tried to Determine When That Child Would Have Been Most Likely to Have Been Vulnerable By Retracing Their Movements?

It's Not Strange. And they Were Never Going to Prosecuted For Neglect.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by littlepixie on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:10

I think it strange them sat round a table not out searching yes.
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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by aliberte2 on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:11

littlepixie wrote:Depends when it was written. If it was before the Police arrived what the hell were they doing all sitting down collaborating and not searching.

If People Believed She was Abducted, a Timeline Would Have Been Essential to Determine How Far Away an Abductor Had Gone. Even If They Were Hoping She Had Woke and Wandering, Again, a Quick Timeline Would have Been Essential To Determine How Far She'd Gotten.

It was Actually Quite Rational and No Doubt the Work of One of the Friends, Trying to Keep Everything Under Control. It was Not Done by the McCanns Themselves.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by aliberte2 on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:12

littlepixie wrote:I think it strange them sat round a table not out searching yes.

Why Not Take Five Minutes to Narrow Down the Search Area and Gives People Ideas of Where She Might Be Than Just Scream and Panic and Run Around like Chickens With Their Heads Cut Off?

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by vaguely on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:12

in relation to heartless: If a child has died or has been missing for a period of time - then everything they own is precious, even ridiculous throwaway stuff such as said sticker book. But precious to the parent, not to the child that is missing or no longer alive. But I think that's part of a long term process and involves grief and memories.

At the point that the book was used there was a crisis going on. Completely different situation and completely different sentiments.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by vaguely on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:14

littlepixie wrote:I think it strange them sat round a table not out searching yes.

I don't know how it works in Port, but over here the parents (or the mother) wouldn't have been out searching. The police wouldn't let them.


edited to correct country

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by littlepixie on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:17

They wouldnt have stopped me if my little girl was missing.

Anyway, was the timeline written before the Police got there?
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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by aliberte2 on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:21

littlepixie wrote:They wouldnt have stopped me if my little girl was missing.

Anyway, was the timeline written before the Police got there?

Actually, From Your Description of How You Think They Should Have Reacted, You Would have Been Useless. And Yes, they Would Have Stopped You, they Would Jail you If They Had to, Post Guards at Your House, If They Had to.

Yes, I Believe It was Written Before the Police Got There.

None of This is At All Relevant to How The McCanns Moved the Body or How Madeleine Died, However.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by vaguely on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:21

littlepixie wrote:They wouldnt have stopped me if my little girl was missing.

Anyway, was the timeline written before the Police got there?

Littlepixie, with respect - and you may well speak from experience, but I don't think that ANY of us can comment on the way we would behave if our children went missing.

There is a reason why the police discourage immediate family from joining a search.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by aliberte2 on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:23

vaguely wrote:

There is a reason why the police discourage immediate family from joining a search.

Yes, and It's Because of the Reason So Many of My Fellow Antis Feel is Evidence Of the McCanns' Guilt - It's Statistically Likely that the Parents or a Parent or Close Friend Was Involved.

ETA: And to Prevent a Parent or Close Loved One from Coming Across a Dreadful Scene.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by Perelli on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:25

littlepixie wrote:They wouldnt have stopped me if my little girl was missing.

Anyway, was the timeline written before the Police got there?

Well, maybe not everyone beleives that they are better than the police at searching for missing people, the primary concern for most would have been to be of assistance to those who were trying to organise the search effort. In many countries the police don't even accept volunteers from the public to be involved in searches as they don't want untrained people trampling around and possibly destroying vital clues or evidence that could lead to the whereabouts of the person that is missing.

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Re: Jane Tanner Liar?

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 05 2010, 17:32

littlepixie the timeline was written while the police was present. The men and some of the women have been searching (including Kate). It's all in the files.
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