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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 38 Mm11

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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 38 Mm11

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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

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Post by Verdi 25.04.17 12:48

Phoebe wrote:Cat Baker on 10/3/07 makes an extra statement about trips to the beach taken by Madeleine's group. She alleges these happened on Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons and on Thursday morning for the "mini sail". She describes the route taken and places herself at the head of the "Sammy Snake" line but does not clarify that this was the case for each trip. She merely describes the safety measures used when taking children to the beach. Regarding the day of the "mini sail" she states-

- Alice Standley accompanied the children ON THE ROUTE and on the boat.

- All said that the children did not meet anyone else during their time at the beach, nor during the trip to it.
- All said that they saw no-one suspicious watching the children nor in the vicinity.
- Catriona said she noticed nothing abnormal [unusual] along the route either when going to the beach or when returning to the resort area.


 Why does Cat. report on what "all said". If she was there she would have stated "I saw nothing suspicious".
There is no mention of the "I'm scared" episode and indeed Cat never says anything in this interview to place her at the beach on the Thurs. Why would Alice Standley need to leave the beach (she was a sailing instructor) and accompany children on the route down to the beach if the nannies were already with them? My take on Cat's statement is that she did not accompany the children to any mini sail on Thursday and therefore did not see Madeleine there.
The information contained in the PJ files about Madeleine's alleged trip to the beach, with other children, is not a verbatim witness statement.  It is the PJ's report on the beach trip, including a transcript of Catriona Baker's description of the sequence of events..

04-Processos, volume IV . Pgs. 870 to 873
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04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_870
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_870_prosesso.jpg][/url]
04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_871
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_871_prosesso.jpg][/url]
04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_872
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_872_prosesso.jpg][/url]
04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_873
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_873_prosesso.jpg][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/url]
Date: 2007.05.10
Place: Praia da Luz, Lagos
Officer responsible: Manuel Pinho, Inspector
Description and result of diligence
Today (10 May 07), accompanied by Joao Barreiras and Catriona Baker, the 'nanny' responsible for the missing minor, retraced the places and times at which they left the resort area to go to Praia da Luz. A photographic report [of this journey] is attached:
- We were told by Catriona that the only days they went to the beach were Tuesday afternoon (1 May 2007) between 15:30 and 16:30, on Wednesday (the next day) at the same time and on Thursday between 10 and 11 o'clock (see attached table [of creche activities]).

- The route taken was as follows:

1. The parents left the children at "Baby Club", Mark Warner, situated next to the principal reception and which is open 24 hours;
2. then Catriona, with Madeleine and 4 or 5 more children, walked toward the beach. The distance is about 100 metres but not in a straight line;
3. she was always in front with the children behind linked together in a "summy snake" (the object being to form a snake so that the children stayed together in Indian file);
4. leaving the "Baby Club" they descended the stairs to the principal reception, through the front-entrance and crossed Rua Direita (the main street in Praia da Luz) heading for Beco das Palmeiras [passageway: called 'alley of palm trees'];
5. then they made a right towards Beco do Nordeste [passageway: called 'northeast alley'] after which they made a left and went down a stairway next to a property called "Casa Ortiga", that has the number 17;
6. at the bottom of the steps is Travessa das Redes [another street];
7. crossing this they descended alongside the parking lot towards the esplanade that runs the length of the beach;
8. after reaching the beach they went along the boardwalk to an area where there was a red awning and several thatched sunshades;

- On the first two days the children played and did activities in the sand. On the Thursday they went sailing next to the beach.
- On that day they sailed in a small yellow "catamaran";
- Alice Standley accompanied the children on the route and on the boat. Three children sailed with her at one time;

- Chris Unswork transported the children in a red amphibious boat (life-saving boat) until the boat reached the open sea, and, a few minutes later, returned them to the beach to pick up three other children from the group;

- All said that the children did not meet anyone else during their time at the beach, nor during the trip to it.
- All said that they saw no-one suspicious watching the children nor in the vicinity.
- Catriona said she noticed nothing abnormal [unusual] along the route either when going to the beach or when returning to the resort area.

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Post by Phoebe 25.04.17 13:01

Verdi wrote:
Phoebe wrote:Cat Baker on 10/3/07 makes an extra statement about trips to the beach taken by Madeleine's group. She alleges these happened on Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons and on Thursday morning for the "mini sail". She describes the route taken and places herself at the head of the "Sammy Snake" line but does not clarify that this was the case for each trip. She merely describes the safety measures used when taking children to the beach. Regarding the day of the "mini sail" she states-

- Alice Standley accompanied the children ON THE ROUTE and on the boat.

- All said that the children did not meet anyone else during their time at the beach, nor during the trip to it.
- All said that they saw no-one suspicious watching the children nor in the vicinity.
- Catriona said she noticed nothing abnormal [unusual] along the route either when going to the beach or when returning to the resort area.


 Why does Cat. report on what "all said". If she was there she would have stated "I saw nothing suspicious".
There is no mention of the "I'm scared" episode and indeed Cat never says anything in this interview to place her at the beach on the Thurs. Why would Alice Standley need to leave the beach (she was a sailing instructor) and accompany children on the route down to the beach if the nannies were already with them? My take on Cat's statement is that she did not accompany the children to any mini sail on Thursday and therefore did not see Madeleine there.
The information contained in the PJ files about Madeleine's alleged trip to the beach, with other children, is not a verbatim witness statement.  It is the PJ's report on the beach trip, including a transcript of Catriona Baker's description of the sequence of events..

04-Processos, volume IV . Pgs. 870 to 873
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_870
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_870_prosesso.jpg][/url]
04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_871
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_871_prosesso.jpg][/url]
04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_872
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_872_prosesso.jpg][/url]
04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_873
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/04 - VOLUME IVa_Page_873_prosesso.jpg][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/url]
Date: 2007.05.10
Place: Praia da Luz, Lagos
Officer responsible: Manuel Pinho, Inspector
Description and result of diligence
Today (10 May 07), accompanied by Joao Barreiras and Catriona Baker, the 'nanny' responsible for the missing minor, retraced the places and times at which they left the resort area to go to Praia da Luz. A photographic report [of this journey] is attached:
- We were told by Catriona that the only days they went to the beach were Tuesday afternoon (1 May 2007) between 15:30 and 16:30, on Wednesday (the next day) at the same time and on Thursday between 10 and 11 o'clock (see attached table [of creche activities]).

- The route taken was as follows:

1. The parents left the children at "Baby Club", Mark Warner, situated next to the principal reception and which is open 24 hours;
2. then Catriona, with Madeleine and 4 or 5 more children, walked toward the beach. The distance is about 100 metres but not in a straight line;
3. she was always in front with the children behind linked together in a "summy snake" (the object being to form a snake so that the children stayed together in Indian file);
4. leaving the "Baby Club" they descended the stairs to the principal reception, through the front-entrance and crossed Rua Direita (the main street in Praia da Luz) heading for Beco das Palmeiras [passageway: called 'alley of palm trees'];
5. then they made a right towards Beco do Nordeste [passageway: called 'northeast alley'] after which they made a left and went down a stairway next to a property called "Casa Ortiga", that has the number 17;
6. at the bottom of the steps is Travessa das Redes [another street];
7. crossing this they descended alongside the parking lot towards the esplanade that runs the length of the beach;
8. after reaching the beach they went along the boardwalk to an area where there was a red awning and several thatched sunshades;

- On the first two days the children played and did activities in the sand. On the Thursday they went sailing next to the beach.
- On that day they sailed in a small yellow "catamaran";
- Alice Standley accompanied the children on the route and on the boat. Three children sailed with her at one time;

- Chris Unswork transported the children in a red amphibious boat (life-saving boat) until the boat reached the open sea, and, a few minutes later, returned them to the beach to pick up three other children from the group;

- All said that the children did not meet anyone else during their time at the beach, nor during the trip to it.
- All said that they saw no-one suspicious watching the children nor in the vicinity.
- Catriona said she noticed nothing abnormal [unusual] along the route either when going to the beach or when returning to the resort area.
I'm still wondering why Alice Standley would need to accompany the children on the route. I would have expected her and Chris to have waited on the beach for them. Lindsay Johnston, the creche manager, is also confused about this trip. She's not sure what day it happened but claims Gerry and Kate also accompanied Madleleine on her way to the mini sail. I find it odd that allegedly, on Tues and Wed, the nannies alone were capable of taking the children there but by Thurs they had to enlist the sailing instructor and Kate and Gerry to make the same short trip.
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Post by roz 06.09.17 11:09

I also have my doubts re Mini club beach/boat trip Thursday morning.  
Lyndsay J Johnston (Manager of Kids Club) was the first person (as far as I see) to mention the Mini club boat trip, but does not know the day:
 
Lyndsay J J – Sunday 6.5.07 (Snipped - my italics)
The informant tells us that on a date which she cannot be precise about but which was some time last week, Madeleine McCann participated in a boat trip, organised by the company's crêche. Several children participated in this outing to the sea, accompanied by the employees mentioned above and an expert in water activities, whose name she is not aware of.
‘Participated in a boat trip’ (participou num passeio de barco -singular) suggests one boat trip.
The word ‘employees’ as in plural is used (funcianarias), and to specify further in the statement, in brackets is the plural word for educators (educadoras).
That strongly suggests that Cat Baker (Mini club nanny-3 to 5 year olds) and Emma Wilding (also Mini club nanny-3 to 5 year olds) took the two Mini club groups together to the beach for the boat trip.
We are told by Emma W -7.5.07 (snipped)- When questioned, she states that on Wednesday May 2, her group and Madeleine's group went to the beach, but she is not sure if Madeleine was in the group or not, …… (She does not say what activities they did there.)
Why does Cat not mention this joint venture to the beach with Emma? (We are told by Kirsty M - Junior club nanny -7.5.07 - that she had to accompany the two groups from the beach back to the Mini club-then to the Tapas area for High tea that Wednesday afternoon. We are told where Emma went, but where was Cat?).
In her interview on Sunday 6.5.07 Cat mentions only that her group had ‘outside activities’- (tennis, swimming, beach). In the PJ report of Cat’s route to the beach with the children - 10th May 07, it mentions the trip to the beach Wednesday afternoon -3.30 to 4.30, and the boat trip as being on Thursday morning. (Madeleine is not specifically named – only that 3 children sailed at one time etc. This is elaborated on by Cat in her Rogatory interview in April the following year-naming Madeleine as one of the children, scared etc.)
The ‘Mini sail’ was to have taken place Wednesday morning according to the Lobster crèche sheet. We know that it rained early that morning, but it was well dried up by the afternoon.
Is it possible that the boat trip was re-scheduled for later that same day, and was not held on the Thursday morning?
Emma W 7.5.07 Re Thursday 3rd (snipped-my italics) - She is not sure whether during the morning Madeleine's group had outdoor activities, mainly at the pool; …………

It seems that Emma was questioned regarding Cat’s activities that Thursday morning. Why, in particular, does Emma answer as to the outdoor pool area? (teve actividades no exterior nomeadamente na piscina).
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Post by Doug D 14.03.19 21:17

Looking at the nannies statements in respect of Berry’s new claims in the Netflix production, and came across these from the ever reliable Cat Baker. I’m sure they’ve been looked at before, but I didn’t remember them specifically:
 
18/4/08
‘I got to know Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, in the Minis Club. They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children's bracelets which included their name, allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner. Either Kate or Gerry would accompany Madeleine every day in the morning and would return at lunch hour to take her back.’
 
Yet 6/5/07, just three days after the ‘abduction’, and she doesn’t know if MM was even there on the day she would have put on their ID bracelets:
 
'When asked she states that she knows the McCann family since last Sunday, 29th April, 2007, when they enrolled their daughter in the “Minis” service. She replies that since that date and until Thursday, the 03rd of May, 2007, she was with Madeleine every day, but is unable to specify if she was present on the Sunday morning.'
 
Can’t even claim to have been lost in translation (google translate):
 
‘Not being able, however, to know if she attended Sunday morning’
 
What about looking at the undated crèche register sheet that had to be from the Sunday Cat, or were they just incomplete/fabrications?
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Post by Phoebe 14.03.19 22:01

If this new photo is indeed of the Lobster's group and was taken during that week it should be very simple to identify who the nanny in the picture is. I'm sure it can be enhanced. If "Parachute Grass Time" took place during its allocated slot then this picture was taken between 10-11 a.m. on the Sunday morning. It does look rather like Cat B in the picture.
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Post by Jill Havern 14.05.21 11:57

kikoraton wrote:Hello folks!
I’m sure that on this forum we find people with open minds, who like to consider all possibilities without a disposition to decry the ideas and opinions of others. Posters who indulge in rational debate and criticism, rather than those who seek to deflect the argument to support their own theories. There are plenty enough opportunities for everyone to air their own opinion, in their own space.
Let me put forward a possibility which I have been developing for some time now. It hinges on the conclusion I reached about two years ago, which is that Madeleine died at a very early stage in the holiday at PdL. Probably on 29 April – the first full day. (I can explain how I came to that conclusion in another thread, if you're interested).
The big objection to this theory has been, that a certain number of witnesses claim that Madeleine was present in the Lobster crèche until the last possible moment before KM cried “abduction”. That is, until 1730 on 3 May. But on another forum HiDeHo has shown that this “certain number” of people is actually very small. Probably only Cat Baker, in fact.
Until recently, I used to admit that I didn’t know how to get round this problem, whilst clinging on to my belief that Maddie died on or around 29 April. But once I had resolved this in my own mind, and put forward a theory as to how this apparent anomaly could be explained – my God, all hell was let loose on that forum. Organised opposition became the norm, with reasoned arguments from supportive posters being sent careering off-road at the slightest excuse. And with lots of “don’t tell us we didn’t warn you – you’re putting yourself at the mercy of Carter Ruck” from the mods.
So with much apprehension (I’m a very timid poster, with no posts to my name as you can see) I merely introduce myself as kikoraton, and ask if anyone here would care to hear my opinion as to how it was made to appear that Madeleine McCann was  present in the Lobster group until 1730 on 3 May.

I'm just bumping this old thread to say that Kikoraton, who did a lot of work on the creche and telephone records, has sadly passed away.

RIP Kiko  singlerose

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Post by Guest 14.05.21 13:13

I'm sorry to hear this. R.I.P.
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Post by Ladyinred 14.05.21 17:33

RIP
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Post by Milo 18.08.22 14:05

Decades ago you found crossed sevens in the original hand-written  version of results of science experiments and such like so that in taking the rough data and using it in print version or in calculations along the way, you and others did not read 7 as 1 and vice versa.
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Post by Verdi 18.08.22 16:22

Milo wrote:Decades ago you found crossed sevens in the original hand-written  version of results of science experiments and such like so that in taking the rough data and using it in print version or in calculations along the way, you and others did not read 7 as 1 and vice versa.

What on earth are you talking about Milo confused ?

Does this in some way relate to the thread - could you please elaborate?

Ta!

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Post by CaKeLoveR 18.08.22 16:39

Do you mean the number 7 with a line through it, in the continental way?
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Post by Milo 19.08.22 1:43

About the 7

There has been a comment (I will go looking later) in the context of the creche timetable and sign ins etc, which referred to that type of 7. I was commenting on the way some write it with a horizontal line acros the stem.

Sorry for being so cryptic. I have been re-digesting a few topics and was getting excited!
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Post by CaKeLoveR 19.08.22 6:37

I remember that as well, but not why it was mentioned.
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Post by crusader 19.08.22 16:44

All the mobile phone numbers apart from 1 have crossed 7s.
They all look to have been written by the same person.
On 1st May, it looks like the same person signed in Ella O'Brien and Elizabeth Naylor AM.

Looks like Madeleine and Jessica Berry signed in by same person at 2-30.

Tia Patel Ella and William Totman all signed out 5-30, looks like the same handwriting.

There is something not right about the crèche sheets, they look to me at least, they were cobbled up in a hurry.
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