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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 Mm11

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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

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Post by littlepixie on 07.06.11 18:45

I don't know kiko, it all seems to have gone quiet on that front now.
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Post by kikoraton on 07.06.11 19:59

Oh well, never mind, it's quite noisy on the "Creche Records" thread!!!
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Post by kikoraton on 12.07.11 14:57

OK, you guys, all my evidence is making its way to the Met. God knows, they've enough to worry about at the moment, but if the review team is serious, it will be ring-fenced and able to keep apart from all the shit that's going on at the moment.

ETA: if you tweet, you may like to know that I've been tweeting recently under the name kikoratton, with double-t. That's simply a device to protect the excellent footballer Kiko Ratón, from whom I took my JillHavern name.
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Post by ufercoffy on 12.07.11 15:05

@kikoraton wrote:OK, you guys, all my evidence is making its way to the Met.

clapping1 clapping1 clapping1 clapping1 clapping1 clapping1 clapping1

bravo bravo bravo

I hope you've sent it recorded delivery big grin

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Post by Guest on 12.07.11 15:30

Nice one kiko clapping thumbsup
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Post by Guest on 12.07.11 16:27

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 281194 How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 2346296870
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Post by littlepixie on 13.07.11 0:09

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 725573 Kiko How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 351181 How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 759815 How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 342142 How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 342142 How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 342142 that this info gets into the right hands and is acted upon as it should be.
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Post by kikoraton on 13.07.11 7:27

It will get to the very door of the Met Review Team's station in London. After that, it will be followed up!
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Post by kikoraton on 23.12.11 20:06

Hello again, you folks
Where have I been, these last months? Having fun on Twitter, for one thing. All the theories and their development you've read on here, has over the last six or more months been tweeted to thousands of people all over the world. You only have to join twitter and search for the tweeter called "kikoratton". Yes, with two "t"s, because (a) Kiko Ratón is my favourite footballer (blush) and I didn't want anyone to blame him for my posts, and (b) the McCs are too thick to connect kikoraton with kikoratton.
Secondly, for what has seemed an endless period, I have been waiting for a response to a research request I made to a firm of private detectives, to carry out some work on the general theme of creche and phone records. Normally they respond within a few days, but I've been waiting several weeks, with occasional updates from them, which must mean that they are having to delve pretty deeply into murky waters. I'll let you know if they turn out to be Santa and bring me a pressie for Christmas! (Or after).
I'm posting only on Jill Havern now (apart from twitter). Some unpleasant events happened on the MCF forum, in which an innocent poster on the chat/pets/sharing-photos thread was victimised and lied about by one or two other posters there, who violated her character by PM, email and facebook. We would all have expected more decent behaviour by the person or people who did this to her. Some of us still keep in touch with the victim, who was traumatized by the matter.
I've not changed my mind one iota about my conclusions, that Madeleine McCann never took her place in the creche, because she was no longer around at that time, and instead was replaced by a substitute whose name was "Madeleine" although spelled in one of its variations. I'm not quite ready yet to tell you who she was, although I believe I know. I re-visited Cat Baker's statement today (I've actually acquired a benign view of Cat Baker), and it speaks volumes that she says that the parents presented Maddie's name for registration (at 0945 on the first morning, 29 April), but she cannot say that she saw the child at that registration, or that morning.
You bet she didn't. One, because Maddie McCann was most likely already dead, and two, because the "substitute" deception arrangements went belly-up that morning. When "Maddie McCann" did eventually show up, she wasn't, in my opinion, Maddie McCann at all, but Mad'lene R.
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Post by Guest on 24.12.11 9:51

@kikoraton wrote:I re-visited Cat Baker's statement today (I've actually acquired a benign view of Cat Baker), and it speaks volumes that she says that the parents presented Maddie's name for registration (at 0945 on the first morning, 29 April), but she cannot say that she saw the child at that registration, or that morning.

How could she have not seen her that morning. Madeleine was the last to arrive and the first thing she would have had to do, was to attach her ID bracelet and introduce herself. She could not have missed her !!!

Did Murat take her statement? Could he have changed the wording when translating it into Portuguese?, to ensure nothing gave the game away.
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Post by Guest on 24.12.11 9:58

@kikoraton wrote:I'm posting only on Jill Havern now (apart from twitter). Some unpleasant events happened on the MCF forum, in which an innocent poster on the chat/pets/sharing-photos thread was victimised and lied about by one or two other posters there.

That does not surprise me, I worked out what was really going on over there a while ago. I have no idea why Joana cannot see right through Ines and a few of her little helpers.
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Post by Jill Havern on 24.12.11 10:03

Stella wrote:
@kikoraton wrote:I'm posting only on Jill Havern now (apart from twitter). Some unpleasant events happened on the MCF forum, in which an innocent poster on the chat/pets/sharing-photos thread was victimised and lied about by one or two other posters there.

That does not surprise me, I worked out what was really going on over there a while ago. I have no idea why Joana cannot see right through Ines and a few of her little helpers.

sad It took me a while to realise what JM and her little helpers were doing here....
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Post by Guest on 24.12.11 10:31

That's the thing. The good in all of us really wants to believe in other people. It's a very natural thing to do and something that only gets worse as we get older. This is precisely why the elderly become targets for fraudsters. Sadly this tragedy has made me even less trusting of other people now, which I do not like, but we have to realise that we are up against people with an endless pit of money, dangerous contacts and a secret to keep. JM was one who 'almost' had me believing in her, but my better judgement thankfully saved the day in the end.
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Post by kikoraton on 24.12.11 19:40

Yes, I think it was Murat who took her statement and translated it into Portuguese. But the reason Cat Baker couldn't say she saw Maddie is, I'm convinced, because she is being honest. Maddie McCann was dead by then. Her substitute hadn't turned up on time. Someone wrote "Maddie McCann" in at 0945, then had to make some excuse for her non-appearance.
At what time a substitute did turn up, I'm not sure. A bit later that morning, probably, once all the frantic phone-calls had died down.

A Peaceful Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
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Post by Cheshire Cat on 24.12.11 22:14

Stella wrote:That's the thing. The good in all of us really wants to believe in other people. It's a very natural thing to do and something that only gets worse as we get older. This is precisely why the elderly become targets for fraudsters. Sadly this tragedy has made me even less trusting of other people now, which I do not like, but we have to realise that we are up against people with an endless pit of money, dangerous contacts and a secret to keep. JM was one who 'almost' had me believing in her, but my better judgement thankfully saved the day in the end.

What do you mean about JM Stella?
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Post by Guest on 25.12.11 9:41

When everyone left here, I was invited to this other secret site where JM, Estelle and all of them were and had been for quite some time. But when I tried to recreate some of the missing very important topics, I started to come up against a lot of very strange citicism. Very, very quickly I realised that something was very wrong with that place and left, I think, just days after starting to post there. My last few contacts with JM were also strange to say the least. She told me her real name?? and I think I was supposed to tell her mine. But when I said I work alone and do not take sides, I never heard from her again. I didn't play ball obviously. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 37 110921
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Post by kikoraton on 25.12.11 17:55

I have fallen out big-time with three people over on MCF. And on each occasion, it was after they (in turn) had persuaded me to part with information on the pretext of following it up (one of them claimed to be a personal acquaintace of GA), and then turned on me, either refusing to enter a dialogue, or in the case of Shibboleth Chatelaine, telling me my research was rubbish.
The only poster there who ever gave me a real lead, was Cheshire Cat.
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Post by Guest on 26.12.11 8:57

I am beginning to wonder if the MCF's lot are on Bell Pottinger's payroll. Ines speaks several languages and has kept tight control of the translations. It's interesting some of them over there have been asking you for information, only to turn on you. I'm not getting a feeling they are being paid by the McCann's. Maybe this is where most of my dodgy tracking cookies are coming from, via Ines, as I used to connect to the PJFiles several times a day for info. But I now try to get what I need from McCannfiles.

I think a few of us had noticed how Shibb's attitude has changed recently, now we know why.
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Post by monkey mind on 15.07.12 14:15

I’ve just finished ploughing through all 92 pages of this excellent thread and there are a couple of points I should like to make even though the thread appears somewhat dormant. I’ll endeavour to be brief...

Personally speaking I find the substitute theory as outlined by Kikoratton and others quite compelling but for many it rubs against the grain and I can understand that. So my first point....

One objection that I have heard raised a number of times and in this thread is that the substitute theory would quite simply involve too many people hence complicating issues. I don’t see it that way. The bare minimum that need have known in the theory outlined on this thread are the McCanns, whoever was the custodian of the substitute Madeleine and probably the Naylors. As I see it, nobody else need have known though they may have. I’m undecided on the Paynes.

The nannies including Cat Baker certainly need not have known, and presupposing that the real Madeleine did in fact make it out to Portugal as I suspect then this does not imply that the O’Brien’s and Oldfield’s necessarily knew. It appears they were only casual acquaintances of the McCanns and did not travel out with her. Even if they encountered the sub that week they may only have met the real Madeleine once or twice before when she was considerably smaller. They allegedly went for lunch on occasion to the Payne apartment but can we say for sure M was there? She may have been ‘sleeping’ or ‘a little unwell’.

For the sub theory to be carried out successfully, very few people need be in the loop. The function of the Tapas crowd could at best have been to unwittingly provide support to the obvious neglect ie ‘we all did it’ scenario which was necessary to provide opportunity for an *abductor* or, taking it a little further they may have been privy to an accident and somehow were persuaded to provide support to that theory whilst being completely unaware the real M disappeared at the beginning of the week.
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Post by monkey mind on 15.07.12 14:20

Second point. Someone asked way back on this thread if this was preplanned, a substitute engaged and the body disposed of then why the blood behind the sofa in 5A? Surely they would have not made such a mistake and being doctors could have employed any means to put a child to ‘sleep’. It’s a very good point.

In order to consider the above question it is necessary to accept that the blood behind the sofa found by Keela relates to the cadaver indicated by Eddie. It’s a more than reasonable assumption as they were in the same place and no satisfactory explanation for that blood has been provided considering there must have been a fair bit to make it to the curtains also.

I think it is fair to say this case is far from simple hence it remaining unsolved and must have involved a good degree of cumming particularly if there were a substitute.

I don’t know about you, but personally speaking if I embark on any major enterprise I like to have a plan B, it’s very important to me, part of my nature. Henceforth if I had embarked on a plan as outlined in this thread then I would definitely have had a plan B.
The best scenario would be that the body is temporarily hidden until permanent disposal at a later date, the police are misdirected as to date, time and suspect for the crime, wrong footed from the off and we all get away scott free.

But even the best laid plans can go awry for infinite unforeseen reasons. What if, after the child was dead, what if her body was found in its temporary resting place, what if I were found transporting it there god forbid!! Worst nightmare!! It could happen. If she had been put to sleep by drugs the game would be up. But not if she had some sort of head injury, I could claim she had an accident. I could even show them where it happened, where we had tried to clean up so no one would notice. The acts of desperately panicked parents. Or so I could make it appear.

And indeed that was the preliminary conclusion the PJ came to an accident covered up. Or at least that was their opening bid. If it were me, and I had planned a substitute, then that would have been my plan B, my get out of jail card, or at least only stay for a very short time card....

And if the plan be were called for it could only fail if the sub were discovered but why should that be? After all, there would be no reason to put the creche records under a microscope I admitted neglect and showed them where the accident happened. In both plan A and B, the full depth of my plan would likely lie undiscovered.

All just my thoughts and ideas in a possible scenario as outlined in this thread.
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Post by Kathian1997 on 24.04.17 13:09

This is my first post so please be gentle! The crossing of the number 7 is also a military thing. My husband was in the army for 33 years and he always crosses the sevens. Just thought I'd mention it.
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Post by Jill Havern on 24.04.17 14:39

Thank you for bumping this thread with posts from monkey mind, our original former pro-Maddie MET Police officer, who is no longer with us as he's not well.


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Post by sallypelt on 24.04.17 14:50

@Kathian1997 wrote:This is my first post so please be gentle! The crossing of the number 7 is also a military thing. My husband was in the army for 33 years and he always crosses the sevens. Just thought I'd mention it.
I wouldn't look too much into the crossing of the number 7. I have used it for decades. When ever I write the number 7, without thinking I cross it, and I have no military connections. I started using it, way back in another life, lol   so that it wouldn't be mistaken for the number one.
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Post by Nina on 24.04.17 15:16

@sallypelt wrote:
@Kathian1997 wrote:This is my first post so please be gentle! The crossing of the number 7 is also a military thing. My husband was in the army for 33 years and he always crosses the sevens. Just thought I'd mention it.
I wouldn't look too much into the crossing of the number 7. I have used it for decades. When ever I write the number 7, without thinking I cross it, and I have no military connections. I started using it, way back in another life, lol   so that it wouldn't be mistake for the number one.
I too cross the seven. Living in Spain for 15 years their written one looks very like our seven but they cross the seven to distinguish it from the one.

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Post by Phoebe on 25.04.17 12:24

Cat Baker on 10/3/07 makes an extra statement about trips to the beach taken by Madeleine's group. She alleges these happened on Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons and on Thursday morning for the "mini sail". She describes the route taken and places herself at the head of the "Sammy Snake" line but does not clarify that this was the case for each trip. She merely describes the safety measures used when taking children to the beach. Regarding the day of the "mini sail" she states-

- Alice Standley accompanied the children ON THE ROUTE and on the boat.

- All said that the children did not meet anyone else during their time at the beach, nor during the trip to it.
- All said that they saw no-one suspicious watching the children nor in the vicinity.
- Catriona said she noticed nothing abnormal [unusual] along the route either when going to the beach or when returning to the resort area.


 Why does Cat. report on what "all said". If she was there she would have stated "I saw nothing suspicious".
There is no mention of the "I'm scared" episode and indeed Cat never says anything in this interview to place her at the beach on the Thurs. Why would Alice Standley need to leave the beach (she was a sailing instructor) and accompany children on the route down to the beach if the nannies were already with them? My take on Cat's statement is that she did not accompany the children to any mini sail on Thursday and therefore did not see Madeleine there.
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