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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 Empty Who was the tall, thin man, not the father of the child (Madeleine), who was often seen with the child?

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.11.10 17:16

Stella wrote:For me the strongest clue yet that Madeleine had been replaced at some point, was with a comment made by the tapas receptionist.

"She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group arrived with the child Madeleine McCann, she does not know his name and can only say that he was male and tall and thin and that he approached her to request a booking for the whole group, for the whole week and always at 20.30. When questioned, she confirms that the man was not the father of the girl but one of the members of the group whom was often seen in his company."

The girl that was used by Gerry to enter the creche, must have been the exact same child who was taken to book the tapas, which is why the receptionist said that this child was not with "the father". There has to be a very good reason why everyone lied and said Rachel made that booking. Not just to protect this man, but to protect the identity of that child.
Yes, that's right, I think Rachael Oldfield/Mampilly said she made the booking.

There has been much speculation over the identity of 'the tall, thin, male' who was not the father of the girl but 'was often often seen in his company'.

Some have said this was Dr Matthew Oldfield - certainly quite tall.

Others have suggested it was 'Tapas 10'.

So far as I am aware this is the first time it's been suggested that this was Dr Gerald McCann with a substitute Madeleine McCann.

There is yet another possibility. That the tall, thin man was the substitute Madeleine's father - pretending that he was not the father.
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Post by YNG on 26.11.10 17:54

Stella wrote:Exactly YNG, that would explain how and when the substitute Madeleine left.

Which will coincide with their flights back home and why the alarm was raised after that. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 160807


Yes it does coincide nicely Stella, that's one of the details along with the descriptions of the people & child that makes this ' sighting ' a bit of a mystery. The idea of using a Taxi puzzles me a bit , but I suppose if it's necessary to get somewhere quickly and they were without other transport , what else is left ?
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Post by Cheshire Cat on 26.11.10 18:33

@YNG wrote:
Stella wrote:Exactly YNG, that would explain how and when the substitute Madeleine left.

Which will coincide with their flights back home and why the alarm was raised after that. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 160807


Yes it does coincide nicely Stella, that's one of the details along with the descriptions of the people & child that makes this ' sighting ' a bit of a mystery. The idea of using a Taxi puzzles me a bit , but I suppose if it's necessary to get somewhere quickly and they were without other transport , what else is left ?

Is this the taxi journey you mean? (I posted this a while back on a thread of its own)
All

I am posting this old article from Joanna Morais blog because it continues to intrigue me. There does not appear to be any official record of this sighting in the case files but it differs from all the obviously manufactured sightings because it occured before Madeleine was reported missing. Aspects of this story which leap out at me include the reaction of Clarence Mitchell (his comment about time-lines) and the description of Madeleine being similar to the Smith sighting (pink pyjamas / light, rose coloured pyjamas). Other articles about the taxi drivers sighting include descriptions of 'Madeleine' staring straight ahead and remaining motionless with the exception of the twitch in her chin.

This comment might be important:
“In two hours you can travel from Aldeia da Luz to Vila Real de Santo Antonio and return. Someone can be lying. They should establish if Kate did not go away during this period”, says António.

Is this all a "perfect nonsense" as stated by Clarence Mitchell or could it describe the events leading up to the Smith sighting at 10.00 PM on 3 May 2007? Would there have been time to attempt to resussitate Madeleine in the appartment before Gerry dashed off with the corpse and was spotted by the Smith Family?

Is it possible that this event actually occured prior to 3 May 2007?

Who were the other people in the car with 'Kate' ?

And don't forget the Rog Interview Question to David Payne :

00:52:56 1485 "Did you see them [Kate and Gerry] in a car at all whilst you were in Portugal, prior to Madeleine disappearing?”
Reply "Err we all arrived you know at Praia Da Luz initially in the taxi err apart from that I can’t really recall.”
1485 "That’s it.”
Reply "I can’t recall err seeing you know err going anywhere in a car.”


TAXI-DRIVER IS SURE THAT HE TOOK MADDIE IN HIS CAR IN THE NIGHT OF THE GIRL DISAPPEARANCE
“I transported that girl”

The driver remembers that he transported them in the night of the disappearance, in the 3rd of May, from the square of taxis of Monte Gordo for the Hotel Apolo, in em Vila Real de Santo Antonio. The passengers went then to a jeep. António contacted the PJ, but, as he says, no one took notice of his story.

A taxi-driver of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, in the Algarve, guarantees to have transported Maddie, Kate McCann and three men – one of them similar to Murat – in the night of the disappearance of the English girl, in the 3rd of May of last year. António Castela Cardoso, 67 years, does not forget the hour or the details of the passengers. He regrets that after having communicated the Judiciary Police of Portimão, he never received a follow up call to explain his statement. Taxi-driver, with 17 years in that profession, António Castela has the habit of memorizing the face of his clients. That one particularly, “She was a girl with very pretty eyes and she called my attention because of the sign that she had in one eye and the twitch that she was doing with the chin”, he remembered. In the beginning of that night, António was in the square of taxis of Monte Gordo, four kilometres of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, was ready to stop the cab service. “It was 20h10 and I like seeing the television news”, he remembers.

Man was similar to Murat

The clients approached and asked him to transport them to the Hotel Apolo, in Vila Real de Santo Antonio. The driver did not refuse. On his side a man seated who was using “fine glasses”. “He was similar with the one that appears in the television like the third suspect”, says António, concerning Robert Murat – who is arguido in the case. In the seat behind, a woman “like Kate” sat down, between two men. The girl that the taxi-driver says to be Maddie sat down to the lap of one of them.
“She was wearing pink pyjamas. The mother had the hair tied and a yellow coat”, he remembers, with exactness. It was a silent journey. The passengers did not exchange one word; they did not show any emotions. On the arrival to the journey destiny, António pulled out the baby's chair of the luggage car. “It was the same as what the couple usually uses”, he affirms. The customers asked him, in English language, how much the cab journey was. “I said that there were 3, 25 euros and they gave me five and then I thanked them”, he says.

Top-of-the-line Jeep

The taxi-driver saw three men, the woman and the child move towards a metallic-blue, top-of-the-line Jeep “ I do not know if it would be a BMW, but I remember that the license plate was yellow and therefore was not a Portuguese one ”, he affirms. The vehicle was parked in the Hotel Apolo parking. António returned to his house with the image of the girl in the head. It reminded him of his son, now with 37 years. “My son was operated to his eyes because he had a similar eye defect. He also did that twitch with the chin. They even looked like brothers”, he observed.
The next day, António was watching the television news besides his son and his granddaughter, with the same age of Maddie. With astonishment he saw that the blond girl of light eyes had disappeared. “I immediately told my son: ' I transported that girl yesterday! ’ ”.
The son, a police officer of the GNR, advised the father to phone to the Judiciary Police of Portimão. “ He (the son) dialled the number and I said what I am telling you (to the journalist of 24 Horas newspaper)”, he remembers to 24horas.
The inspector who answered then asked him if in the hotel there was a system of video vigilance. The taxi-driver did not know.
Up to today, António waits the police contact to give declarations personally. “I defend the girl as I would defend my granddaughter”, he affirms.
Some days later, out of curiosity, António still asked for informations to some of his acquaintances, at the service of the Hotel Apolo. He was told that there was not any reservation for that evening. They also told him that the Hotel had not been contacted by the Judiciary Police. Even worse. The system of video vigilance was damaged two years ago and was not catching any image. “Also I do not know if they did enter in the hotel”, says the taxi-driver.

Since then, António Castela has been accompanying the news on Maddie. When the telephone rings, he still thinks that it will be someone who investigates the case that want to speak with him. When he knew that a certain period of time was still to be explained in the investigation, António Castela immediately thought that this might be the explanation. “In two hours you can travel from Aldeia da Luz to Vila Real de Santo Antonio and return. Someone can be lying. They should establish if Kate did not go away during this period”, says António.

The taxi-driver has been telling this history in public establishments and to clients whom he transports. Only this week a journalist of the “Jornal do Algarve” contacted him to publish what the driver affirms to have seen. “Now they do not leave me alone. Tomorrow [today] there is a team coming from England on purpose to interview me”, he says.
Madeleine McCann disappeared mysteriously from the Ocean Club, in Aldeia da Luz, in the 3rd of May. 300 days already have passed since. The parents are still arguidos in the process, but up to now nobody managed to know what it went on that night.

From Correio da Manhã: A source connected with the investigation guaranteed that the facts told by António Castela were "investigated" and the “lead was proven false”.

Madeleine has no Twitches

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, reacted yesterday with amazement at the declarations of the taxi-driver. “The declarations of Mr. Castela are false. They are a perfect nonsense. He can only be mistaken when he says that at that time he transported Kate and Madeleine with three men”, he said, underlining the fact of being several independent witnesses who place Madeleine's parents in a completely different place. “How is that possible, if at 20h35 several witnesses say that Kate and Gerry were sitting down on a table of the Tapas restaurant”, he questioned. Clarence doubts of the intentions of the taxi-driver. “It astonishes me that only now, ten months later, he talks about this. These are declarations that only cause pain to Kate and Gerry", he said, advancing that that the McCann's daughter has no facial twitches.
“The only sign to report is the one she has in the eye.”
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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 Empty Re: How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

Post by YNG on 26.11.10 19:22

@Cheshire Cat wrote:
@YNG wrote:
Stella wrote:Exactly YNG, that would explain how and when the substitute Madeleine left.

Which will coincide with their flights back home and why the alarm was raised after that. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 160807


Yes it does coincide nicely Stella, that's one of the details along with the descriptions of the people & child that makes this ' sighting ' a bit of a mystery. The idea of using a Taxi puzzles me a bit , but I suppose if it's necessary to get somewhere quickly and they were without other transport , what else is left ?

Is this the taxi journey you mean? (I posted this a while back on a thread of its own)
All

I am posting this old article from Joanna Morais blog because it continues to intrigue me. There does not appear to be any official record of this sighting in the case files but it differs from all the obviously manufactured sightings because it occured before Madeleine was reported missing. Aspects of this story which leap out at me include the reaction of Clarence Mitchell (his comment about time-lines) and the description of Madeleine being similar to the Smith sighting (pink pyjamas / light, rose coloured pyjamas). Other articles about the taxi drivers sighting include descriptions of 'Madeleine' staring straight ahead and remaining motionless with the exception of the twitch in her chin.

This comment might be important:
“In two hours you can travel from Aldeia da Luz to Vila Real de Santo Antonio and return. Someone can be lying. They should establish if Kate did not go away during this period”, says António.

Is this all a "perfect nonsense" as stated by Clarence Mitchell or could it describe the events leading up to the Smith sighting at 10.00 PM on 3 May 2007? Would there have been time to attempt to resussitate Madeleine in the appartment before Gerry dashed off with the corpse and was spotted by the Smith Family?

Is it possible that this event actually occured prior to 3 May 2007?

Who were the other people in the car with 'Kate' ?

And don't forget the Rog Interview Question to David Payne :

00:52:56 1485 "Did you see them [Kate and Gerry] in a car at all whilst you were in Portugal, prior to Madeleine disappearing?”
Reply "Err we all arrived you know at Praia Da Luz initially in the taxi err apart from that I can’t really recall.”
1485 "That’s it.”
Reply "I can’t recall err seeing you know err going anywhere in a car.”


TAXI-DRIVER IS SURE THAT HE TOOK MADDIE IN HIS CAR IN THE NIGHT OF THE GIRL DISAPPEARANCE
“I transported that girl”

The driver remembers that he transported them in the night of the disappearance, in the 3rd of May, from the square of taxis of Monte Gordo for the Hotel Apolo, in em Vila Real de Santo Antonio. The passengers went then to a jeep. António contacted the PJ, but, as he says, no one took notice of his story.

A taxi-driver of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, in the Algarve, guarantees to have transported Maddie, Kate McCann and three men – one of them similar to Murat – in the night of the disappearance of the English girl, in the 3rd of May of last year. António Castela Cardoso, 67 years, does not forget the hour or the details of the passengers. He regrets that after having communicated the Judiciary Police of Portimão, he never received a follow up call to explain his statement. Taxi-driver, with 17 years in that profession, António Castela has the habit of memorizing the face of his clients. That one particularly, “She was a girl with very pretty eyes and she called my attention because of the sign that she had in one eye and the twitch that she was doing with the chin”, he remembered. In the beginning of that night, António was in the square of taxis of Monte Gordo, four kilometres of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, was ready to stop the cab service. “It was 20h10 and I like seeing the television news”, he remembers.

Man was similar to Murat

The clients approached and asked him to transport them to the Hotel Apolo, in Vila Real de Santo Antonio. The driver did not refuse. On his side a man seated who was using “fine glasses”. “He was similar with the one that appears in the television like the third suspect”, says António, concerning Robert Murat – who is arguido in the case. In the seat behind, a woman “like Kate” sat down, between two men. The girl that the taxi-driver says to be Maddie sat down to the lap of one of them.
“She was wearing pink pyjamas. The mother had the hair tied and a yellow coat”, he remembers, with exactness. It was a silent journey. The passengers did not exchange one word; they did not show any emotions. On the arrival to the journey destiny, António pulled out the baby's chair of the luggage car. “It was the same as what the couple usually uses”, he affirms. The customers asked him, in English language, how much the cab journey was. “I said that there were 3, 25 euros and they gave me five and then I thanked them”, he says.

Top-of-the-line Jeep

The taxi-driver saw three men, the woman and the child move towards a metallic-blue, top-of-the-line Jeep “ I do not know if it would be a BMW, but I remember that the license plate was yellow and therefore was not a Portuguese one ”, he affirms. The vehicle was parked in the Hotel Apolo parking. António returned to his house with the image of the girl in the head. It reminded him of his son, now with 37 years. “My son was operated to his eyes because he had a similar eye defect. He also did that twitch with the chin. They even looked like brothers”, he observed.
The next day, António was watching the television news besides his son and his granddaughter, with the same age of Maddie. With astonishment he saw that the blond girl of light eyes had disappeared. “I immediately told my son: ' I transported that girl yesterday! ’ ”.
The son, a police officer of the GNR, advised the father to phone to the Judiciary Police of Portimão. “ He (the son) dialled the number and I said what I am telling you (to the journalist of 24 Horas newspaper)”, he remembers to 24horas.
The inspector who answered then asked him if in the hotel there was a system of video vigilance. The taxi-driver did not know.
Up to today, António waits the police contact to give declarations personally. “I defend the girl as I would defend my granddaughter”, he affirms.
Some days later, out of curiosity, António still asked for informations to some of his acquaintances, at the service of the Hotel Apolo. He was told that there was not any reservation for that evening. They also told him that the Hotel had not been contacted by the Judiciary Police. Even worse. The system of video vigilance was damaged two years ago and was not catching any image. “Also I do not know if they did enter in the hotel”, says the taxi-driver.

Since then, António Castela has been accompanying the news on Maddie. When the telephone rings, he still thinks that it will be someone who investigates the case that want to speak with him. When he knew that a certain period of time was still to be explained in the investigation, António Castela immediately thought that this might be the explanation. “In two hours you can travel from Aldeia da Luz to Vila Real de Santo Antonio and return. Someone can be lying. They should establish if Kate did not go away during this period”, says António.

The taxi-driver has been telling this history in public establishments and to clients whom he transports. Only this week a journalist of the “Jornal do Algarve” contacted him to publish what the driver affirms to have seen. “Now they do not leave me alone. Tomorrow [today] there is a team coming from England on purpose to interview me”, he says.
Madeleine McCann disappeared mysteriously from the Ocean Club, in Aldeia da Luz, in the 3rd of May. 300 days already have passed since. The parents are still arguidos in the process, but up to now nobody managed to know what it went on that night.

From Correio da Manhã: A source connected with the investigation guaranteed that the facts told by António Castela were "investigated" and the “lead was proven false”.

Madeleine has no Twitches

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, reacted yesterday with amazement at the declarations of the taxi-driver. “The declarations of Mr. Castela are false. They are a perfect nonsense. He can only be mistaken when he says that at that time he transported Kate and Madeleine with three men”, he said, underlining the fact of being several independent witnesses who place Madeleine's parents in a completely different place. “How is that possible, if at 20h35 several witnesses say that Kate and Gerry were sitting down on a table of the Tapas restaurant”, he questioned. Clarence doubts of the intentions of the taxi-driver. “It astonishes me that only now, ten months later, he talks about this. These are declarations that only cause pain to Kate and Gerry", he said, advancing that that the McCann's daughter has no facial twitches.
“The only sign to report is the one she has in the eye.”


Thats the one CheshireCat , there's been a lot of denial about this report ... and of course anything Clarence Mitchel say's I take with a pinch of salt How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 110921 .... and a child taken somewhere in pajamas that time of night is odd imo , as is the facial / jaw twitching , possible a sign of something ?
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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 Empty Re: How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

Post by Cheshire Cat on 26.11.10 20:12

@YNG wrote:
@Cheshire Cat wrote:
@YNG wrote:
Stella wrote:Exactly YNG, that would explain how and when the substitute Madeleine left.

Which will coincide with their flights back home and why the alarm was raised after that. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 160807


Yes it does coincide nicely Stella, that's one of the details along with the descriptions of the people & child that makes this ' sighting ' a bit of a mystery. The idea of using a Taxi puzzles me a bit , but I suppose if it's necessary to get somewhere quickly and they were without other transport , what else is left ?

Is this the taxi journey you mean? (I posted this a while back on a thread of its own)
All

I am posting this old article from Joanna Morais blog because it continues to intrigue me. There does not appear to be any official record of this sighting in the case files but it differs from all the obviously manufactured sightings because it occured before Madeleine was reported missing. Aspects of this story which leap out at me include the reaction of Clarence Mitchell (his comment about time-lines) and the description of Madeleine being similar to the Smith sighting (pink pyjamas / light, rose coloured pyjamas). Other articles about the taxi drivers sighting include descriptions of 'Madeleine' staring straight ahead and remaining motionless with the exception of the twitch in her chin.

This comment might be important:
“In two hours you can travel from Aldeia da Luz to Vila Real de Santo Antonio and return. Someone can be lying. They should establish if Kate did not go away during this period”, says António.

Is this all a "perfect nonsense" as stated by Clarence Mitchell or could it describe the events leading up to the Smith sighting at 10.00 PM on 3 May 2007? Would there have been time to attempt to resussitate Madeleine in the appartment before Gerry dashed off with the corpse and was spotted by the Smith Family?

Is it possible that this event actually occured prior to 3 May 2007?

Who were the other people in the car with 'Kate' ?

And don't forget the Rog Interview Question to David Payne :

00:52:56 1485 "Did you see them [Kate and Gerry] in a car at all whilst you were in Portugal, prior to Madeleine disappearing?”
Reply "Err we all arrived you know at Praia Da Luz initially in the taxi err apart from that I can’t really recall.”
1485 "That’s it.”
Reply "I can’t recall err seeing you know err going anywhere in a car.”


TAXI-DRIVER IS SURE THAT HE TOOK MADDIE IN HIS CAR IN THE NIGHT OF THE GIRL DISAPPEARANCE
“I transported that girl”

The driver remembers that he transported them in the night of the disappearance, in the 3rd of May, from the square of taxis of Monte Gordo for the Hotel Apolo, in em Vila Real de Santo Antonio. The passengers went then to a jeep. António contacted the PJ, but, as he says, no one took notice of his story.

A taxi-driver of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, in the Algarve, guarantees to have transported Maddie, Kate McCann and three men – one of them similar to Murat – in the night of the disappearance of the English girl, in the 3rd of May of last year. António Castela Cardoso, 67 years, does not forget the hour or the details of the passengers. He regrets that after having communicated the Judiciary Police of Portimão, he never received a follow up call to explain his statement. Taxi-driver, with 17 years in that profession, António Castela has the habit of memorizing the face of his clients. That one particularly, “She was a girl with very pretty eyes and she called my attention because of the sign that she had in one eye and the twitch that she was doing with the chin”, he remembered. In the beginning of that night, António was in the square of taxis of Monte Gordo, four kilometres of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, was ready to stop the cab service. “It was 20h10 and I like seeing the television news”, he remembers.

Man was similar to Murat

The clients approached and asked him to transport them to the Hotel Apolo, in Vila Real de Santo Antonio. The driver did not refuse. On his side a man seated who was using “fine glasses”. “He was similar with the one that appears in the television like the third suspect”, says António, concerning Robert Murat – who is arguido in the case. In the seat behind, a woman “like Kate” sat down, between two men. The girl that the taxi-driver says to be Maddie sat down to the lap of one of them.
“She was wearing pink pyjamas. The mother had the hair tied and a yellow coat”, he remembers, with exactness. It was a silent journey. The passengers did not exchange one word; they did not show any emotions. On the arrival to the journey destiny, António pulled out the baby's chair of the luggage car. “It was the same as what the couple usually uses”, he affirms. The customers asked him, in English language, how much the cab journey was. “I said that there were 3, 25 euros and they gave me five and then I thanked them”, he says.

Top-of-the-line Jeep

The taxi-driver saw three men, the woman and the child move towards a metallic-blue, top-of-the-line Jeep “ I do not know if it would be a BMW, but I remember that the license plate was yellow and therefore was not a Portuguese one ”, he affirms. The vehicle was parked in the Hotel Apolo parking. António returned to his house with the image of the girl in the head. It reminded him of his son, now with 37 years. “My son was operated to his eyes because he had a similar eye defect. He also did that twitch with the chin. They even looked like brothers”, he observed.
The next day, António was watching the television news besides his son and his granddaughter, with the same age of Maddie. With astonishment he saw that the blond girl of light eyes had disappeared. “I immediately told my son: ' I transported that girl yesterday! ’ ”.
The son, a police officer of the GNR, advised the father to phone to the Judiciary Police of Portimão. “ He (the son) dialled the number and I said what I am telling you (to the journalist of 24 Horas newspaper)”, he remembers to 24horas.
The inspector who answered then asked him if in the hotel there was a system of video vigilance. The taxi-driver did not know.
Up to today, António waits the police contact to give declarations personally. “I defend the girl as I would defend my granddaughter”, he affirms.
Some days later, out of curiosity, António still asked for informations to some of his acquaintances, at the service of the Hotel Apolo. He was told that there was not any reservation for that evening. They also told him that the Hotel had not been contacted by the Judiciary Police. Even worse. The system of video vigilance was damaged two years ago and was not catching any image. “Also I do not know if they did enter in the hotel”, says the taxi-driver.

Since then, António Castela has been accompanying the news on Maddie. When the telephone rings, he still thinks that it will be someone who investigates the case that want to speak with him. When he knew that a certain period of time was still to be explained in the investigation, António Castela immediately thought that this might be the explanation. “In two hours you can travel from Aldeia da Luz to Vila Real de Santo Antonio and return. Someone can be lying. They should establish if Kate did not go away during this period”, says António.

The taxi-driver has been telling this history in public establishments and to clients whom he transports. Only this week a journalist of the “Jornal do Algarve” contacted him to publish what the driver affirms to have seen. “Now they do not leave me alone. Tomorrow [today] there is a team coming from England on purpose to interview me”, he says.
Madeleine McCann disappeared mysteriously from the Ocean Club, in Aldeia da Luz, in the 3rd of May. 300 days already have passed since. The parents are still arguidos in the process, but up to now nobody managed to know what it went on that night.

From Correio da Manhã: A source connected with the investigation guaranteed that the facts told by António Castela were "investigated" and the “lead was proven false”.

Madeleine has no Twitches

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, reacted yesterday with amazement at the declarations of the taxi-driver. “The declarations of Mr. Castela are false. They are a perfect nonsense. He can only be mistaken when he says that at that time he transported Kate and Madeleine with three men”, he said, underlining the fact of being several independent witnesses who place Madeleine's parents in a completely different place. “How is that possible, if at 20h35 several witnesses say that Kate and Gerry were sitting down on a table of the Tapas restaurant”, he questioned. Clarence doubts of the intentions of the taxi-driver. “It astonishes me that only now, ten months later, he talks about this. These are declarations that only cause pain to Kate and Gerry", he said, advancing that that the McCann's daughter has no facial twitches.
“The only sign to report is the one she has in the eye.”


Thats the one CheshireCat , there's been a lot of denial about this report ... and of course anything Clarence Mitchel say's I take with a pinch of salt How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 110921 .... and a child taken somewhere in pajamas that time of night is odd imo , as is the facial / jaw twitching , possible a sign of something ?

You are right about the denials!

I found the taxi driver on Facebook once but not sure if he speaks english!
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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 Empty Red herring?

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.11.10 20:16

This taxi-driver's account simply doesn't seem to 'fit' with any of the scenarios we are talking about.

How long was the journey? - for 3.25 euros, it can't have been far, maybe the journey was silent because the child was tired.

The Correio da Manha article, quoted, says: "A source connected with the investigation guaranteed that the facts told by António Castela were 'investigated' and the 'lead was proven false'."

Maybe the PJ checked it out and discovered the people involved were unconnected with Madeleine's disappearance.

It doesn't sound like this was a substitute Madeleine being whisked off to Faro Airport.
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Post by kikoraton on 26.11.10 20:21

Absolutely agree.
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Post by YNG on 26.11.10 20:33

@Tony Bennett wrote:This taxi-driver's account simply doesn't seem to 'fit' with any of the scenarios we are talking about.

How long was the journey? - for 3.25 euros, it can't have been far, maybe the journey was silent because the child was tired.

The Correio da Manha article, quoted, says: "A source connected with the investigation guaranteed that the facts told by António Castela were 'investigated' and the 'lead was proven false'."

Maybe the PJ checked it out and discovered the people involved were unconnected with Madeleine's disappearance.

It doesn't sound like this was a substitute Madeleine being whisked off to Faro Airport.


You could be right Tony, we simply don't know as the statement / report does not seem to be in the files.


" While the secrecy of justice law continues to constrain any official clarification about the Madeleine Case, unofficial PJ sources were quoted by the Portuguese-language press as confirming the existence of António Cardoso’s report in the case files."


It supposedly occured at 21.10 on May 3rd , and the security camera's were , according to reports once again not working .
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Post by kikoraton on 26.11.10 20:41

Thank you for a very accurate summary of my view, Tony. I would only modify it as follows:
"had a 'Madeleine substitute' already lined up. That was another blonde girl called Madeleine," Or a variant of the spelling of her name.
"forged the signature of this Robert Naylor (or possibly another Robert Naylor)" I got into an awful spot of bother on another forum for using the word "faked". After that I started using the phrase "tried to imitate".
As for "or possibly another Robert Naylor" - yes, for several weeks I did believe that. Then, one night last weekend, I woke up in a sweat after dreaming that I was playing for Girona in front of several thousand Spanish and Catalan fans (at some industrial town near Valéncia), and yet as clear as anything I could hear voices singing in English "there's only one Robert Naylor", in the way that English fans do.
That sort of changed my mind, but I should be obliged in any of our readers in the investment banking business could produce a copy of the signature of Robert Naylor, of Matrix and formerly of the Icelandic bank Landsbanki. : winkwink
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Post by Cheshire Cat on 26.11.10 21:33

@kikoraton wrote:Thank you for a very accurate summary of my view, Tony. I would only modify it as follows:
"had a 'Madeleine substitute' already lined up. That was another blonde girl called Madeleine," Or a variant of the spelling of her name.
"forged the signature of this Robert Naylor (or possibly another Robert Naylor)" I got into an awful spot of bother on another forum for using the word "faked". After that I started using the phrase "tried to imitate".
As for "or possibly another Robert Naylor" - yes, for several weeks I did believe that. Then, one night last weekend, I woke up in a sweat after dreaming that I was playing for Girona in front of several thousand Spanish and Catalan fans (at some industrial town near Valéncia), and yet as clear as anything I could hear voices singing in English "there's only one Robert Naylor", in the way that English fans do.
That sort of changed my mind, but I should be obliged in any of our readers in the investment banking business could produce a copy of the signature of Robert Naylor, of Matrix and formerly of the Icelandic bank Landsbanki. : How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 302873

What about this scenario.....

Gerry McCann arrives at the Creche with only one child, Elizabeth Naylor.

This gives him access to the signing-in book where he "signs in" (in great haste) Madeleine McCann and Elizabeth Naylor (forging the signature of Robert Naylor and making it appear there is a 5 minute gap).

What he has achieved here is to get Madeleine McCann's name in the book without actually passing off another child as Madeleine. He needs another child with him to get access to the book but Madeleine never actually made it to the creche and there was no substitute.

Of course I am disregarding head-count checks here but I have seen such a club in action in another Algarve resort where the child was signed in and parents location was provided (in case they needed to be contacted) but I don't think any head-count checks were made as it was a secure creche.

What I am saying is that McCann handed Elizabeth over to the creche but made two entries in the book.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 26.11.10 22:09

@Kikoraton wrote:...one night last weekend, I woke up in a sweat after dreaming that I was playing for Girona in front of several thousand Spanish and Catalan fans (at some industrial town near Valéncia), and yet as clear as anything I could hear voices singing in English 'there's only one Robert Naylor', in the way that English fans do.

@Cheshire Cat wrote:...What about this scenario.....

Gerry McCann arrives at the Creche with only one child, Elizabeth Naylor. This gives him access to the signing-in book where he 'signs in' (in great haste) Madeleine McCann and Elizabeth Naylor (forging the signature of Robert Naylor and making it appear there is a 5 minute gap). What he has achieved here is to get Madeleine McCann's name in the book without actually passing off another child as Madeleine. He needs another child with him to get access to the book but Madeleine never actually made it to the creche and there was no substitute...What I am saying is that McCann handed Elizabeth over to the creche but made two entries in the book.
What is interesting about 'Cheshire Cat's idea is that, if he is right, that would suggest the McCanns and Naylors knew each other beforehand (The possible Mccandless connection is another Naylor link, but may be irrelevant). Would a 3-year-old girl go alone with Dr Gerald McCann if he was a complete stranger to her?

That is also the case with 'Kiko's theory. His theory also rests on the Naylors and the McCanns being familiar with each other.

Removing a 2nd Naylor family certainly makes this hypothesis more straightforward.

It occurs to me that signing in 'Madeleine' on the register - without there being a 'Madeleine' there - would surely have aroused the suspicion of the creche workers?

Is Robert Naylor tall and thin?
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Post by Guest on 26.11.10 22:26

Cheshire C - I think this would be a very plausible theory were it not for the fact that a number of the nannies stated that there was a child in the creche who answered to/introduced herself as " Maddie". ( Candyfloss kindly reminded us of these statements when I proposed that the child in question had insisted on calling herself Madeleine, hence Gerry`s insistence that " her name is Madeleine, not Maddy" was designed to explain that point).

It would also suggest that the nannies who had made these statements were - let us say - being " economical with the truth" and whilst there may be reservations about Cat Baker after her November 2007 visit to Rothley and her rogatory interview, it is harder to imagine that they were all prepared to state that a " Maddie" was there if she were not.

I believe that whoever posted anonymously on Joanna Morais`s blog- as early as November 2008 - was trying to point in a certain direction, even if the child they specifically identified ( the M.E.N referred to previously on this thread) was not the one actively involved.

ETA - I think Tony B is also making this point.
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Post by littlepixie on 26.11.10 22:31

Cheshire Cat, that is the way I am thinking also. It all depends on how slapdash the record keeping was at the creche. I am not a great believer in staff doing everything by the book. I worked for too long where the dual control system and the checksheet/list system was routinely forged by most of the staff to save time. Sometimes hundreds of thousands of pounds in cash required two signatures but there was more than one occassion when someone would say "initial/sign it for me". So a double check was never made.
Did the Nanny take the sheets every single morning and afternoon and double check the parents signatures to the number of children? Or were they left on a desk until the end of the day. The real Maddie may have only attended that creche for one day.
I can well believe one girl could have attended creche signed in with two different names. What other reason could there be for a fathers signature to be copied?
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Post by littlepixie on 26.11.10 22:36

I have read that a girl with the same name Maddie has been disregarded but we have someone staying in an apartment we are not sure of. Can we be sure their child was not called Maddie.
I have every confidence in Kiko and I agree that the handwriting for the signing in for Madeleine McCann and Elizabeth Naylor are written by the same hand - but why?
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Post by Guest on 26.11.10 22:50

@Little Pixie - I`ve been trying to research this with KikoR and it was he who said that M.E.N should be disregarded because we can`t find an obvious link between this family from the North of England and the London Naylors ( although we do know that another apartment was booked in the name of Naylor via the owner)

I still don`t think we can get away from the fact that there was a child in the creche who answered to the name of Maddie. And why Gerald M was in a position to sign in Elizabeth Naylor is still a mystery.

A slap dash approach to signing children in and a lack of headcount cannot of course be discounted but the " child who answered to the name of Maddie" is still something we have to consider.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 26.11.10 23:09

In order to fully understand this thread I made an 18-page summary of it earlier this week (too long to post here but I'll e-mail it to anyone who wants a copy - ajsbennett@btinternet.com).

I sent it round to a few people who are interested in research on the case and one person has come back with this today:

QUOTE

I would make the obvious point, which is that the 'planted' Madeleine who was carefully made known to the Nannies could never have been seen by them again after May 3, nor by any of the other children at the creche, not seen at restaurants or anywhere. So was she concealed out of sight of even cleaners in the apartment B1 by the occupants, if so when did they leave and how did they do so without the planted Madeleine being recognised?

UNQUOTE
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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 8:59

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Stella wrote:For me the strongest clue yet that Madeleine had been replaced at some point, was with a comment made by the tapas receptionist.

"She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group arrived with the child Madeleine McCann, she does not know his name and can only say that he was male and tall and thin and that he approached her to request a booking for the whole group, for the whole week and always at 20.30. When questioned, she confirms that the man was not the father of the girl but one of the members of the group whom was often seen in his company."

The girl that was used by Gerry to enter the creche, must have been the exact same child who was taken to book the tapas, which is why the receptionist said that this child was not with "the father". There has to be a very good reason why everyone lied and said Rachel made that booking. Not just to protect this man, but to protect the identity of that child.
Yes, that's right, I think Rachael Oldfield/Mampilly said she made the booking.

There has been much speculation over the identity of 'the tall, thin, male' who was not the father of the girl but 'was often often seen in his company'.

Some have said this was Dr Matthew Oldfield - certainly quite tall.
Anyone who thinks this person was Matt Oldfield is clearly ignoring all of the statements put forward by the tapas group. Everyone including Matt HIMSELF said it was Rachel. Yes they could all be lying of course, but why would an innocent action need to be covered up?

Others have suggested it was 'Tapas 10'.
I have no doubt that he was someone outside of the normal group.

So far as I am aware this is the first time it's been suggested that this was Dr Gerald McCann with a substitute Madeleine McCann.
That's not what I was suggesting at all. I was trying to state as you suggested below, that this pushy, tall, thin man was the father of the child USED by Gerry in the creche, which is why the receptionist said it was Maddie and that she was not with her father Gerry McCann.

There is yet another possibility. That the tall, thin man was the substitute Madeleine's father - pretending that he was not the father.
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Post by kikoraton on 27.11.10 9:12

I'd love to see the passenger lists for flights out of Faro for the evening of 3 May. I suspect the substitute Maddie and her parents were on such a flight, altho' travel by car or boat cannot be ruled out. As I've said "owner bookings" contain no details of means of travel. And very strangely, the Naylors entry says "no flights or transfers required". Put the two together, and you have the recipe for an undetected departure.
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Post by Cheshire Cat on 27.11.10 9:22

@kikoraton wrote:I'd love to see the passenger lists for flights out of Faro for the evening of 3 May. I suspect the substitute Maddie and her parents were on such a flight, altho' travel by car or boat cannot be ruled out. As I've said "owner bookings" contain no details of means of travel. And very strangely, the Naylors entry says "no flights or transfers required". Put the two together, and you have the recipe for an undetected departure.

Or private means of transportation by air.

Wouldn't public transport by any means by too risky - the substitute could be captured by CCTV and observed by many people at the airport!

The next day when the story was released to the media surly there would have been dozens of sightings of the substitute Maddie?
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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 9:27

@Tony Bennett wrote:In order to fully understand this thread I made an 18-page summary of it earlier this week (too long to post here but I'll e-mail it to anyone who wants a copy - ajsbennett@btinternet.com).

I sent it round to a few people who are interested in research on the case and one person has come back with this today:

QUOTE

I would make the obvious point, which is that the 'planted' Madeleine who was carefully made known to the Nannies could never have been seen by them again after May 3, nor by any of the other children at the creche, not seen at restaurants or anywhere. So was she concealed out of sight of even cleaners in the apartment B1 by the occupants, if so when did they leave and how did they do so without the planted Madeleine being recognised?

UNQUOTE

The creche records state that she was signed out at 5.30, the alarm was raised at 10pm. That's 4.5 hours for the child to leave by a private car, go straight to the airport and onto a flight. It was probably another 2 hours on top of that before the first pictures were released on air. If she left with her own passport to which she matched exactly, why would her journey raise any alarms bells? Why do you think that the first picture released was of a very young Madeleine ?
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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 9:39

@kikoraton wrote:I'd love to see the passenger lists for flights out of Faro for the evening of 3 May. I suspect the substitute Maddie and her parents were on such a flight, altho' travel by car or boat cannot be ruled out. As I've said "owner bookings" contain no details of means of travel. And very strangely, the Naylors entry says "no flights or transfers required". Put the two together, and you have the recipe for an undetected departure.

This has to be a serious consideration along with private jets.

And yachts of course out of Lagos marina, with time PERHAPS for a quick bite to eat first at somewhere discreet like the Doctors cafe. winkwink

shhhh that was very naughty of me, but it was another topic that was very quickly got shot down in flames for some reason.
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Post by soulthief on 27.11.10 10:15

Stella wrote:
@kikoraton wrote:I'd love to see the passenger lists for flights out of Faro for the evening of 3 May. I suspect the substitute Maddie and her parents were on such a flight, altho' travel by car or boat cannot be ruled out. As I've said "owner bookings" contain no details of means of travel. And very strangely, the Naylors entry says "no flights or transfers required". Put the two together, and you have the recipe for an undetected departure.

This has to be a serious consideration along with private jets.

And yachts of course out of Lagos marina, with time PERHAPS for a quick bite to eat first at somewhere discreet like the Doctors cafe. winkwink

shhhh that was very naughty of me, but it was another topic that was very quickly got shot down in flames for some reason.
No particular reason for asking you Stella this is for anyone, so if a child pretended to be Madeleine was at the creche and then spirited away where was the real Madeleine and where is she now?Alive somewhere adopetd or something...nice thought, Im not getting this thread at all./
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Post by ufercoffy on 27.11.10 10:32

@soulthief wrote:
Stella wrote:
@kikoraton wrote:I'd love to see the passenger lists for flights out of Faro for the evening of 3 May. I suspect the substitute Maddie and her parents were on such a flight, altho' travel by car or boat cannot be ruled out. As I've said "owner bookings" contain no details of means of travel. And very strangely, the Naylors entry says "no flights or transfers required". Put the two together, and you have the recipe for an undetected departure.

This has to be a serious consideration along with private jets.

And yachts of course out of Lagos marina, with time PERHAPS for a quick bite to eat first at somewhere discreet like the Doctors cafe. winkwink

shhhh that was very naughty of me, but it was another topic that was very quickly got shot down in flames for some reason.
No particular reason for asking you Stella this is for anyone, so if a child pretended to be Madeleine was at the creche and then spirited away where was the real Madeleine and where is she now?Alive somewhere adopetd or something...nice thought, Im not getting this thread at all./

I think they're trying to say that Maddie died early on that week but a substitute child was used to pretend Maddie was still alive until they could work out how to deal with her disappearance - i.e the faked abduction.

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Post by Rainbow on 27.11.10 10:38

@soulthief wrote:
Stella wrote:
@kikoraton wrote:I'd love to see the passenger lists for flights out of Faro for the evening of 3 May. I suspect the substitute Maddie and her parents were on such a flight, altho' travel by car or boat cannot be ruled out. As I've said "owner bookings" contain no details of means of travel. And very strangely, the Naylors entry says "no flights or transfers required". Put the two together, and you have the recipe for an undetected departure.

This has to be a serious consideration along with private jets.

And yachts of course out of Lagos marina, with time PERHAPS for a quick bite to eat first at somewhere discreet like the Doctors cafe. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 302873

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 592854 that was very naughty of me, but it was another topic that was very quickly got shot down in flames for some reason.
No particular reason for asking you Stella this is for anyone, so if a child pretended to be Madeleine was at the creche and then spirited away where was the real Madeleine and where is she now?Alive somewhere adopetd or something...nice thought, Im not getting this thread at all./


Me neither.So was the pretend Maddie already there on hols or did they ring for her to be brought over at a later date?
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Post by Judge Mental on 27.11.10 11:12

@Rainbow wrote:
@soulthief wrote:
Stella wrote:
@kikoraton wrote:I'd love to see the passenger lists for flights out of Faro for the evening of 3 May. I suspect the substitute Maddie and her parents were on such a flight, altho' travel by car or boat cannot be ruled out. As I've said "owner bookings" contain no details of means of travel. And very strangely, the Naylors entry says "no flights or transfers required". Put the two together, and you have the recipe for an undetected departure.

This has to be a serious consideration along with private jets.

And yachts of course out of Lagos marina, with time PERHAPS for a quick bite to eat first at somewhere discreet like the Doctors cafe. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 302873

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 20 592854 that was very naughty of me, but it was another topic that was very quickly got shot down in flames for some reason.
No particular reason for asking you Stella this is for anyone, so if a child pretended to be Madeleine was at the creche and then spirited away where was the real Madeleine and where is she now?Alive somewhere adopetd or something...nice thought, Im not getting this thread at all./


Me neither.So was the pretend Maddie already there on hols or did they ring for her to be brought over at a later date?

Good old Rainbow.

It may be that the child was not pretending to be anybody else at all, and that she was just being herself. After all, the child has the same name as the child we are still trying to find.
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