Re: Alternative Theorizing

by Secondthoughts2 29.08.20 16:17

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I would believe the cleaners version before I would believe the McCanns tale, as theirs does not reconcile.

It would be a very odd thing for a cleaner to say if not true. What reason would the cleaner have for saying this, unless she saw the cot?

And, as Madeleine, according to the parents statements had gone into their room on other nights - maybe to prevent her waking the twin children, and to prevent her getting up and wandering around in the night, the confinement of a cot was the resolution to their problem as you say.

It could also possibly explain the DNA or lack of!

At risk of daring to theorise - how sturdy would a travel cot be, as in, would it be possible for Madeleine (in one of her tempers, granny McCann said she could throw a temper) when parents not there, to rock it, and for it to topple causing her injury?

by Silentscope 29.08.20 16:44

As the other more Senior Members have pointed out, having a theory as to what might have occurred is one thing.

The way it evolves into acceptable EVIDENCE is another.

There is no evidence that she fell whilst climbing out of a cot.
There is no evidence that she fell off the balcony.
There was a Dog indicating that a Body was in the Garden below.

But- there is Fluid spatter and Blood under the tiles next to the Sofa in the living room. This was also alerted to by two separate Dogs.

That is the main body of supporting EVIDENCE that the Forum is working on. As a new member myself I have also come across things that have led me to taking false directions, but this is what we all are up against. “Confusion is good”

It is entirely wanted.

by Silentscope 30.08.20 19:29

Has anyone noticed that on the Photos of Maddy, particularly where she is sitting down, she seems to be:

a) either positioned so she is furthest away from the Parents.

b) there is usually someone between her and a Parent.

I find this somewhere between interesting and odd somehow...?

by Secondthoughts2 30.08.20 20:27

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I haven't seen that many or any if I think about - pictures of Madeleine with her parents. Something I will have a look at.

On your other point - I firmly believe same as Dr Amaral that Madeleine had a fall in the living area. Always have. Nothing thus far has swayed me on this.

by Silentscope 30.08.20 21:26

As far as I understand the Evidence, there were no cracked tiles at the point of impact with the floor. The spatter patterns are not all from the victim’s blood, but may be from coughing something up.

After impact it is suspected she crawled behind the Sofa and expired.
This is where blood pooled and seeped under the tiles.

How this came to pass may not even be known by whoever discovered the body. Unless someone knows different - who was there at the time.

That is the main problem for all who want to know, no - one wants to tell us, and no - one wants us to find out!

This is the result of failing to separate Justice - from Politics.

Times are changing though, are they not?

by minder_1966 31.08.20 21:28

Hi to all you good folks,

Sorry if the title comes across as clickbait! But I seriously believe i have a theory that I haven't heard yet but again, please forgive me if you have heard something similar already!

It goes like this:

Why do we have a situation whereby the political leaders, the main stream media, law enforcement agencies, secret service etc. etc. were all over this case from the beginning. And why, ever since the disappearance of Madeline has her parents been paraded on the world stage, almost like royalty? And even in the pandemic we are now in. And even today, there's still daily updates all over the media in many countries around the world?????

You need to ask yourself why? It's that simple & then you have a solution!

First some loose facts:

1. Pizzagate - Wikileaks has emails relating to an alleged secret coded sex cult
2. The photo fits of 2 men with an uncanny resemblance to the Podesta brothers.
3. The royal family had links with Jimmy Saville.
4. Epstein had links with the Royals.

Ok so here goes. It's my theory that there could have been some kind of sex cult event happening in or around the hotel perhaps even child sacrifices (see Pizzagate). Now what if she was sacrificed ... then there would be no need for the worlds press and politicians to get involved... Madeline would be just another statistic.

But what if someone in the 'event' suddenly had a change of heart, maybe it was their first time and they all of a sudden felt guilty... what if they grabbed Madeline and ran for theirs lives, saving her!

Now that would explain everything! The constant obsession to keep Madeline in the media so the general public could spot her, report to the authorities and she would of course be disappeared instantly.

And maybe after all this time, she is still in hiding with the person that saved her...

Also, She has a defect in her pupil, it makes her impossibly dangerous to the elite! As soon as the time is right, she may come out of hiding and no one will be able to say she is not Madeline.

Ok guys, be gentle with me, it's my first post here, love to hear what you think about this theory and thanks for reading
cheers
Terry

by **Mainline** 31.08.20 21:42

Secondthoughts2 wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I would believe the cleaners version before I would believe the McCanns tale, as theirs does not reconcile.

It would be a very odd thing for a cleaner to say if not true. What reason would the cleaner have for saying this, unless she saw the cot?

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Maybe even a similar travel cot switched up and alibi-ed on the night as either 'given to Paynes on first day' 'surplus' or (depending who you ask) requiring assembly by ephemeral o/h for Balu/Cox parents evening of 3rd after one seen hanging around elevator to Payne's between 1800-1900 on 3rd.

Imagine putting that in front of a jury!

by **Jill Havern** 31.08.20 21:43

Welcome to the forum Terry.

How do you explain the dogs' findings in the apartment and hire car and on Kate McCann's clothes and Madeleine's cuddle cat etc if you think someone grabbed her and ran for their lives and she may come out of hiding when the time is right? huh

Whose dead body do you think was in the McCann's apartment and hire car?

by **Mainline** 31.08.20 21:45

Podestas/Maddie was 2016 US election silliness. Amazing people still quote it 4 years later.

by Guest 31.08.20 21:51

by **sharonl** 31.08.20 21:57

Welcome to the forum minder_1966

Thank you for the input but firstly we are in no doubt whatsoever that Madeleine died in the apartment and the cadaver had been concealed, probably moved on a number of occasions.

After years of excellent research, MMRG concluded, along with many others, that Madeleine died on April 29th and that the Government were involved in a coverup of the case right from the start.

Private investigators ran an investigation along side the official investigation causing confusion and diversion as they created false evidence and probably recruited many false witnesses sending the PJ on many a wild goose chase.

As for you points re the cult, then yes I do believe that something was going on along these lines. The Spartacus club, maybe. Plus, there is something very odd with the ex-pat community and owners of some villas in PDL.

We have, paedophile suspect Dr Payne
Sir Clement Freud
Allegations of swinging
Pole dancing nannies
suggestive pics of Madeleine
McCanns obsession with paedophiles

Madeleine was seen walking up to David Paynes apartment at lunchtime on April 29th. Many of us now believe that this is the last credible and verifiable sighting of Madeleine before she died later that day. No one ran off with her, she was in the area.

I suggest that you take a look at Richard Halls documentaries, especially "When Madeleine died?"

by minder_1966 31.08.20 22:02

Hi Sharoni & thanks you for the excellent reply!

Lots to dig into

by minder_1966 31.08.20 22:04

Mainline wrote:Podestas/Maddie was 2016 US election silliness. Amazing people still quote it 4 years later.

Have you seen the photo fits? And you think there's no likeness at all?

by Silentscope 31.08.20 22:06

There is no suggestion any Extra Cots were swapped around with other Apartments. On the arrivals form, only three were requested.
One for Ellie.
Two for the Twins.

So the lack of DNA or any other evidence in the full size beds means only two things to me.

1. Either the Beds were swapped out somehow, so no trace could be found on them.

2. Or they were never really used, and the Twins were in one Cot together, and Maddy was in the other.

What it proves to me is deliberate deception, and is up to the Judge to decide if it is admissible as evidence of anything.

by **Mainline** 31.08.20 22:08

minder_1966 wrote:
Mainline wrote:Podestas/Maddie was 2016 US election silliness. Amazing people still quote it 4 years later.

Have you seen the photo fits? And you think there's no likeness at all?

Are you aware the efits aren't of different people?

by **Mainline** 31.08.20 22:17

Silentscope wrote:There is no suggestion any Extra Cots were swapped around with other Apartments. On the arrivals form, only three were requested.
One for Ellie.
Two for the Twins.

So the lack of DNA or any other evidence in the full size beds means only two things to me.

1. Either the Beds were swapped out somehow, so no trace could be found on them.

2. Or they were never really used, and the Twins were in one Cot together, and Maddy was in the other.

What it proves to me is deliberate deception, and is up to the Judge to decide if it is admissible as evidence of anything.

'1485 "If you can remember talking to anybody to the time you went to bed.'
Reply "Mm, err I think one of the things that I remember is there was difficulties you know we was trying to get the cots situation sorted out and I can't remember, I mean I've thought about this when, you know because I went into Kate and Gerry's apartment right, you know from the beginning to sort out one of the cots because I don't think they, you know, there was a spare one they, they'd had or just to work that out, but err you know during, during the day as I say I, its such a long time ago and all I can remember is we were you know excited, we were going into one person's apartment, having a chat and seeing where they'd been, err you know but I must admit I can't give any detail really err regarding exactly who we chatted to or what, the rest of that day. Err you know we, you know we all went err to Millennium, again I, whether it was the Saturday night or the Sunday night I'm not, I can't recall.''
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'She also says that when she arrived there weren't two but three cribs in the same place, one was lent to the Payne family.'
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by Silentscope 31.08.20 22:29

I do not understand what he is attempting to say. That three cots were delivered in the beginning of the Holiday to 5A, and he took one for Ellie?

He does not make himself very clear.

Confusion is good again?

Or is this an excuse why Maddies Cot disappeared later on, as Ellie was in a Bed originally?

No real attempt made to find that out in the interview was there?

by sandancer 31.08.20 22:46

minder_1966 wrote:
Mainline wrote:Podestas/Maddie was 2016 US election silliness. Amazing people still quote it 4 years later.

Have you seen the photo fits? And you think there's no likeness at all?

The efits first shown on Crimewatch in 2013 , are 2 efits of the same man as shown from different angles , apparently created by the Smith family . The Smiths stated the man they saw was aged 35/40 , the Podesta brothers in 2007 were 58 and 64 , big age difference .

Martin Smith later after seeing Gerry carrying Sean off the plane in September said he was 60/80% sure it was Gerry .

You'll find a lot of reading regarding the efits , the Smiths and their sighting on the forum ( and I do mean a lot !)

Welcome to the best forum going ! welcome

by Silentscope 31.08.20 22:55

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So the arrivals special request sheet specifically requested 3 travelcots, and stated for who they were intended.

Then Dr Kate “lent” one to the Payne family!?

Oops! flag

by **sharonl** 01.09.20 7:49

Silentscope wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So the arrivals special request sheet specifically requested 3 travelcots, and stated for who they were intended.

Then Dr Kate “lent” one to the Payne family!?

Oops!

If all the kids were being cared for in one apartment, the carer couldn't really request 6 more cots or beds could they? It's makes sense that the others would order extra and place them in the one apt.

The Payne had two kids, if they needed one extra cot they would have requested it themselves

by **sharonl** 01.09.20 8:05

minder_1966 wrote:
Mainline wrote:Podestas/Maddie was 2016 US election silliness. Amazing people still quote it 4 years later.

Have you seen the photo fits? And you think there's no likeness at all?

I take the Smith sighting and the e fits with a very large dose of salts, probably more red herrings to keep us focussed on May 3rd and stop us from looking back.

It was suggested that the two efits were of Adrian Oldfield and maybe this guy, whoever he is.

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by Silentscope 01.09.20 8:28

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Correction: Miss L Payne not Ellie.

Still, why “lend” a Cot to someone, when it was booked for them?

Still confused...

by **sharonl** 01.09.20 8:43

Silentscope wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Correction: Miss L Payne not Ellie.

Still, why “lend” a Cot to someone, when it was booked for them?

Still confused...

If all the kids were being cared for in one apartment, the carer couldn't really request 6 more cots or beds could they? It's makes sense that the others would order extra cots and place them in the one apt.

by Silentscope 01.09.20 8:51

If all the kids were being cared for in one apartment, the carer couldn't really request 6 more cots or beds could they? It's makes sense that the others would order extra cots and place them in the one apt.

Sorry, I am not getting what you mean...do you mean that the one empty place setting at the Tapas table was fo a person designated to look after ALL the kids in one Apartment every night?

OR

the OC Arrivals Staff just dropped off three cots in 5A by mistake?

by crusader 01.09.20 9:40

Because the cot's were requested on the same booking form, they were put in the 1 apartment. It doesn't actually say that the cot was requested in the Payne apartment. I can't see anything suspicious about the extra cot being in the McCann apartment.

A extra BED was requested in the McCann apartment.

Lily Payne had a 2 bed room to herself and Scarlet slept in the parent's room in the cot ( taken from the McCann apartment].

Dianne Webster chose to sleep on the bed settee in the lounge as she didn't want to sleep in the same room as Lily.

I'm not convinced that the children were being looked after by one of the group each night, too selfish for that.

They all knew before they went to Portugal, that they would be leaving the children alone, they had discussed this before the holiday.