Alternative Theorizing

Gosh, I didn't know he wanted to do that! Shame on him. The twins should most definitely have a normal life.

Seems some nerves have been touched here. I could be wrong (usually am! )

Verdi wrote:

cookiemuncher wrote:I said that the PJ were naive and thought that the FSS would do the right thing for a 3 year old girl who had gone missing....

I'll leave it that.

The PJ were certainly not naive, their focus was to conduct an open honest thorough investigation in line with standard policing protocol.  They were prevented from doing their job with integrity because of outside interference - primarily the British authorities.

Gonçalo Amaral's take on the subject, taken from his book 'the Truth of the Lie'..

HARVESTING OF THE SAMPLES DERIVED FROM THE SPECIALIST DOGS' INSPECTIONS.

So that the items of evidence might constitute admissible proof, the harvesting and packing must conform to the rules avoiding all risk of deterioration and contamination. It is experts from our police forensic laboratory who carry out the harvesting.

The minuscule traces cannot be gathered in situ, so the tiling is gently lifted out before being transferred to the Forensic Science Laboratory in Birmingham. Photos bear witness to every stage of the operation. For added security, it is the expert responsible for the collection who takes them to FSS on the morning of August 7th.

The choice of this laboratory is not insignificant. Apart from their use of cutting-edge technologies - LCN (Low Copy Number) a DNA identification test, used particularly when only microscopic samples are available -, the results, whatever they might be will not be able to be contested by the British since it's one of their most reliable laboratories.

All other items of evidence gathered - the keys to the McCanns' car, hair and traces of blood found in the boot - are also sent to England.

I call that intelligent smart shrewd  thinking - not naivety.  Snr Amaral was ahead of the game until he was removed from the case.  I venture to suggest his sagacity was the true reason he was removed from the case.

Verdi

I didn't mean that the PJ were naive in the way of being thick and stupid and in fact were the opposite and I think they frightened the McCanns and SY(OG) as they were so astute in their way of thinking and Amaral was "ahead of the game" as you state. as was nobody's fool

You only have to read the PJ files, the witness statements etc to see the minute detail that was put in them, their attention to detail was quite stunning, if that is the right word to use.

I only mentioned "naive" as I'm sure I remember an interview with Amaral when he said that his only regret was sending the samples to the FSS (hence being naive).  I may have been mistaken but it's such a long time ago and now water under the bridge, that it doesn't really matter any more.

Can anyone point me to whatever the latest thread about that photo? Blue eye shadow, head back.

Ignore now - found one and replied.

KM talked about the row she and GM had which led to her sleeping in the room with the children the night before Madeleine went missing. She made a lot of this row, indicating that G had humiliated her in front of the Tapas group over dinner and went into some detail about it. She said she never usually let things like this get to her and they never slept apart but on this occasion, she was particularly angry or words to that effect.  But I am wondering if this row ever occurred and the reason she slept in the other room was that Madeleine's body was now in the wardrobe and she couldn't bear the thought of sleeping in the same room.

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The alleged row is, imo, clearly an excuse/reason for the noise coming from 5A. For different reasons than proposed by K&G. Not buying it one little bit.

There was not an argument..

Kate McCann's interview - 6th September 2007

When asked if she ever slept in Madeleine's room, she says that this happened on the Wednesday, because she was annoyed with Gerry. He ignored her after dinner when they went to the Tapas bar, which only happened that day. She decided to retaliate by sleeping in the other room, in the bed next to the window. She doesn't know if Gerry realized this because he was sleeping when she left, and if in fact her husband was aware of this, he made no comment.

....................

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

At about 11.50pm, Gerry abruptly announced, ‘Right, I’m off to bed. Goodnight.’ As he turned to leave, Dave said jokingly, ‘She’s not that bad, Gerry!’ I must admit I was slightly hurt that Gerry should just go off without me, as if I was unimportant – irrelevant, even – and Dave’s remark was an indication that it wasn’t just me being over-sensitive. Let me tell you something about Gerry. His honesty and openness make him very direct, often to the point of bluntness, and he’s not a touchy-feely guy. Like many men, he assumes I take his feelings as read and doesn’t see any need to express them with soft-soaping, flowers or cards. And although, like most women, I would appreciate the odd romantic gesture, the fact that he has always been loyal, solid and loving deep down, where it really matters, is far more important. It’s just Gerry, I’m used to his foibles and generally any deficiencies in gallantry simply go over my head.

As far as Gerry was concerned, it was late, he was tired, and he was going to bed. End of story. I am not sure why I was miffed by his lack of social graces that particular evening. Perhaps because the other guys in the group were all attentive ‘new men’, compared with Gerry, at least, and I was a bit embarrassed. Anyway, I followed him a few minutes later. He certainly was tired, because by the time I got into the apartment, he was asleep – snoring, in fact. Still feeling a bit offended, I decided to go and sleep with the children. This was highly unusual; unprecedented, even: the only occasions when we ever slept apart were when our jobs and on-call duties dictated it. I wasn’t the type to flounce off to the spare room and never would have done so at home.

I suppose it was because there was a bed made up and ready in the other bedroom and at that moment my peaceful, slumbering babies were more attractive room-mates than my snoring husband. It was a storm in a teacup, and I’m loath even to mention it as it was such an isolated incident and not at all representative of our relationship. However, since every scrap of information was shortly to become potentially crucial, I feel it is necessary to state for the record that I was in that room that night.

...................

Move on ....

I'd never paid much attention to this night in terms of Kate being in the spare bed. Yes, according to Kate there was no argument. Anyone else able to say that it was all quiet that night? My memory is terrible.

Row or not the significance here is that she slept elsewhere and for some good reason she felt it needed to be known. What on the face of it could be construed as a minor detail and an irrelevance in the great scheme of things is actually highlighted by Kate and by her doing so I feel that she is alerting to it be of very great significance indeed. And furthermore how would anyone have ever known this happened or cared unless she decided to say so. Whether it happened when she said it did is also debatable but it is important of that I feel certain.

miffy8 wrote:Row or not the significance here is that she slept elsewhere and for some good reason she felt it needed to be known. What on the face of it could be construed as a minor detail and an irrelevance in the great scheme of things is actually highlighted by Kate and by her doing so I feel that she is alerting to it be of very great significance indeed. And furthermore how would anyone have ever known this happened or cared unless she decided to say so. Whether it happened when she said it did is also debatable but it is important of that I feel certain.

Yes. There was something significant about this. But what and why would K think that it was necessary to mention?

Please see my previous post further up this thread for my thoughts on this.

All I can come up with is that the bed by the window was messed up, the other was pristine. Why? Because Madeleine was there in their fake account?

miffy8 wrote:KM talked about the row she and GM had which led to her sleeping in the room with the children the night before Madeleine went missing. She made a lot of this row, indicating that G had humiliated her in front of the Tapas group over dinner and went into some detail about it. She said she never usually let things like this get to her and they never slept apart but on this occasion, she was particularly angry or words to that effect.  But I am wondering if this row ever occurred and the reason she slept in the other room was that Madeleine's body was now in the wardrobe and she couldn't bear the thought of sleeping in the same room.

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LdB this is my earlier post that I thought might be easier for me to just re-post here. 
I want to add to this some further observations on this. Namely Kate talks about retaliation for Gerry's treatment of her that night, but then goes on to say that he was fast asleep snoring when she got back. So no need for retaliation on that front! And secondly, and more importantly in my view is that she refers to 'her babies' as being better bedfellows than her husband, but considering Madeleine could no longer be described as a baby it would, in my view been more appropriate to say 'my childen' and the reason she chose to say babies instead was for one reason and one reason alone =Madeleine was not there.

Thanks miffy.
Only thing I differ with you on is that I called mine "babies" till they were at senior school!

Yes me too and, as a term of endearment in warm circumstances I agree. But in this context I don't think so. What I am saying is there is a time and place for choices of words and to me this was the subliminal 'truth'

Yes. Again I think you could be right. I'm a soppy git underneath!

miffy8 wrote:

miffy8 wrote:KM talked about the row she and GM had which led to her sleeping in the room with the children the night before Madeleine went missing. She made a lot of this row, indicating that G had humiliated her in front of the Tapas group over dinner and went into some detail about it. She said she never usually let things like this get to her and they never slept apart but on this occasion, she was particularly angry or words to that effect.  But I am wondering if this row ever occurred and the reason she slept in the other room was that Madeleine's body was now in the wardrobe and she couldn't bear the thought of sleeping in the same room.

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LdB this is my earlier post that I thought might be easier for me to just re-post here. 
I want to add to this some further observations on this. Namely Kate talks about retaliation for Gerry's treatment of her that night, but then goes on to say that he was fast asleep snoring when she got back. So no need for retaliation on that front! And secondly, and more importantly in my view is that she refers to 'her babies' as being better bedfellows than her husband, but considering Madeleine could no longer be described as a baby it would, in my view been more appropriate to say 'my childen' and the reason she chose to say babies instead was for one reason and one reason alone =Madeleine was not there.

Kate McCann said in her bewk...so it must be a lie to provide a form of back story to support the fake abduction story.  
One 'messed up' single bed directly under the window, blocked in by 2 cots where 'her babies' were sleeping. Who slept on this bed, as Kate discovered an abduction at 10pm and it should have been made-up that morning. 
How did you access said single bed you claimed you slept in Kate? It looks blocked in to me.

As to the famous 'Maddy was abducted from ere' bed. It was mysteriously pushed against the wall, adjacent to the 'whooshing' door and therefore missing the fixed headboard.
We see that the headboard had the chest of drawers in front of it. Also, the Maddy bed was all neatly made up, so not slept in, but Maddy went to bed at 7pm didn't she?? There were No DNA traces found in this neat single bed -  

Also (and yes Verdi there is no direct evidence of this) if one questions these sleeping arrangements in the context of (a) swinging (regular bed hopping) and (b)  staging an abduction then it starts to make more sense.

cammerigal wrote:We see that the headboard had the chest of drawers in front of it. Also, the Maddy bed was all neatly made up, so not slept in, but Maddy went to bed at 7pm didn't she?? There were No DNA traces found in this neat single bed

The bed photographed by the PJ was not neatly made-up or not slept in.  It shows signs of being used or staged, Madeleine McCann was only 3 years old at the time..

The PJ forensic team were not looking for Madeleine McCann's DNA, why would they - they knew she had been there. The PJ forensic team were looking for evidence of someone who shouldn't have been there, not the McCann family or their group of friends who they knew to have been there. 

They recovered many strands of hair from various locations within the apartment and the bedroom occupied by Madeleine and the twins.  On the bed said to be occupied by Madeleine and the bed beneath the window and on the floor.  

 Conclusions

5th- In the samples from apartment 5-A, several mitochondrial DNA profiles were found:

- Profile identified by letter "C", present in 53 samples, was identical to that of Kate Healy, mother of the victim, meaning those samples were from her or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "N", present in 24 samples, was identical to that of Gerald McCann, father of the victim, meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "G", present in 1 samples, was identical to that of Matthew David Oldfield, meaning that sample was from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "I", present in 1 samples, was identical to that of David Anthony Payne, meaning that sample was from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "O", present in 2 samples, was identical to that of Russell James O'Brien, meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

- Profiles identified by letters "B", "D", "F", "J" and "Q" are different from the above, and from each other, and are distinct from reference samples.

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According to the PJ forensic reports, the only fingerprints to be found on the shutter/window in the bedroom occupied by the McCann children, were that of Kate McCann and a GNR officer.

The bedding on the bed beneath the window could have been crumpled by either,  or Gerry McCann when he was 'testing' the shutter, or any one of the many who trampled around the crime scene before the police were called.

I don't believe it to be worthy of interest without a solid foundation to lead.

The continued and unshakeable bond between the Tapas group is well documented and remains so despite their many statement inconsistencies. Considering this led to making what I think is a symbolic discovery. Please feel free to laugh me out of town on this one but, I thought it worthy of a mention as some things are discovered by chance.
I pondered what it would be that binds them and, being medics the Hypocratic Oath sprang to mind. I knew about it, but not really the content so I looked at both the original and the modern version. It is, as I expected, a non legally binding code of ethics. I also came across The Physician's Oath. Again an ethical text with one of the promises being 'I will respect the secrets confided in me even after the patient has died'
Following this ethical theme led me to look at the Latin ethic 'Dictum meum Pactum' My word is my bond. Again, often used in business transactions to show integrity (gentlemen's handshake) but again non legally binding. I googled the definition and images and it came up with not only the obvious coat of arms that most people recognise but also came up with keys. I looked into the meaning of the keys and they stand for confidence, security, and discretion. All the things needed to be kept in a bond such as the Tapas group has. And then I thought where do keys fit into all of this and then my heart suddenly leapt into my mouth when it dawned on me that there is a key in all of this. The key to the apartment left under the doormat. The key that nobody would know was there. The symbolic significance of the key perhaps to signify Dictum Meum Pactum. My word is my bond in confidence, security and discretion.

Unorthodox theory - Silentscope 

The Cleaners statement on Wed said one Travelcot was in the Parents bedroom. This leads me to believe that this cot was Maddies.
It would be harder to climb out of, to stop her running around?

Were the Twins then placed in the other room together in the other cot maybe - because they did not sleep well apart? 

This would explain the lack of Cadaver odour and DNA on the bed near the bedroom door.

What are the Forum members thoughts on this?

Thanks

Following on from Miffy8 - something that has struck me as potentially, odd; The number of times G, K and Clarrie (family? others?) have said the the exact same, phrases. Eg, No CONCRETE evidence of Maddie having come to harm. There was no KEY evidence.
Just 2 quick guide here: Sure there are more.
CONCRETE and KEY evidence are potentially be worth to take a look.

About to go back back further into my books, studies and "more scripts." for while.

Please feel free to ctc me via here or my email address.