Revisit of HiDeHo 2008 'Message to Matthew' and reasons behind it.

Back in 2008 I made a post regarding the discrepancies involving Matthew ... I 'addressed' it to him and subsequently continued to write my thoughts about his possible involvement...I wrote it from my heart.  I had no intention for it to be anything but a normal thread.  However, it took wings and before I knew it was being posted everywhere and someone apparently sent it to Matthew and his colleagues

I was told he read it, and if so, I wonder if it had any impact... 
Probably not but at least I tried...

Can be viewed here: http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/HiDeHo-s-Message-to-Matthew-1-2454797.html
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My reasons for believing that most of the T7 were in the wrong place at the wrong time and had no idea (before it was too late) how life changing it would be for them

Contrary to what many believe, my thoughts have always been that when they all went on that holiday they were all 'normal' caring parents looking forward to a fun holiday.  From my own research, it indicated to me the possibility that something happened to Maddie in the first couple of days.

At that point, everything changed and this is where it became 'abnormal'.  

Whatever happened to Maddie we don't know, but it seems there was a reason for the McCanns to hide her (ultimate) death.  A reason SO BIG it was decided to risk the crime of hiding her body and faking her abduction.

When it first happened, we dont know for sure if she died immediately, or if any of the T7 were implicated but SOMETHING happened during that holiday and none of the T7 have given any indication what happened.

Keep in mind that they would not have known how the media would react and that it was before social media would become so involved with cases, scrutinising every detail as ultimately happened.

They were in a little village in Portugal and it's possible that Gerry had assured them it would be dealt with (I do not believe Dianne Webster knew at the time)

By not reporting anything to the authorities immediately they automatically became complicit, (and ultimately intimidated because of the huge response of the media)

If something happened earlier in the week and the HUGE necessity to hide the facts, it could have  been comprised of continuing their holiday as normally as possible for the T7 but without the McCanns being involved in the activities as much as planned.

This could explain why the lunch at the Paynes, which we know the McCanns joined on Sunday, suddenly stopped.  The breakfasts at the Millenium were no longer attended by the McCann family after Sunday.  They were busy dealing with the circumstances of what happened.

The curiosity of it not being known if Kate went to the tapas Tuesday (quiz mistress did not see her there) and Wednesday when Gerry and Russell went to the tapas together, with Gerry telling Jez Wilkins that Kate was putting the children to bed.  Where was Jane?  If something had happened to Maddie was she helping Kate?

Its possible that by this time they were all involved and (whether the T7 knew the reason or not) the decision was made to fake an abduction, to explain why Maddie was not there and possibly to avoid an autopsy.  Is THAT the reason they were willing to risk the crime of being complicit in a fake abduction?  

Would an autopsy have revealed something FAR GREATER that the faked 'abduction' was the best option (not necessarily known by all T7)

To give the 'abduction' credibility it was asked of everyone to agree to say the children were left alone or the person that was looking after the children during the so called 'abduction' would have been a target.

By this time all the T7 may have known the basics of what happened and stood together to protect all their friend (or felt intimidated to do so with the knowledge that to step out of line could have resulted in them being responsible for exposing their 'friends' to a life changing demise.)

They were in a sleepy village in Portugal, they would have no idea of what was about to happen...

They were caught in the wrong place...at the wrong time....

Hence my Message to Matthew...

HiDeHo Message to Matthew
http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/HiDeHo-s-Message-to-Matthew-1-2454797.html

One thing that I've always found slightly odd, notwithstanding the need to forge a career and the duration of medical training, is the ages of the men of the group relative to their children.

All the men, GM/MO/DP & RO'B, were between 36 and 41 (their wives between 34 and 39) meaning most became fathers well into their 30s.

Was there another reason for this ? Were all their children conceived "naturally" ?

Maybe they were just getting their careers established and getting their post-student debts, house purchase and finances sorted before starting a family?

At least, that's what my daughter did.

Albatross by the Shadows? Albatross is by Fleetwood Mac, back in their bluesy Peter Green years HiDeHo 

It was written by Peter Green but that is the Shadows lesser known version

I' ve often mused over why the Tapas 7 were willing to pervert the course of justice and perjure themselves. It cannot merely be friendship. I have very dear friends but I would not cover up the death of one of their daughters out of loyalty or even pity. In fact, I don't even think Gerry and Kate were particularly close to the Oldfields or Russell and Jane. The common denominator in these friendships was the Paynes. I believe only fear and guilt, particularly shared fear and guilt, could account for it. I don't buy the swinging, all were paedos, all involved in secret research, child sacrifice etc. theories I'm afraid. I have come to believe that all the children were given sleep "aids" and left alone in their own apartments, but that on most nights one adult was on roving duty between apartments to keep an eye on things. If something happened in this case all would be equally blamed and shamed if it emerged they were sedating their kids to party and this had resulted in the death of one of them. I think they were bound by shared guilt, fear and responsibility and a sense of "there but for the grace of God, it could easily have been us."

Hi Phoebe
I too am at a loss as to what binds the "pact" together.
I'm of the belief that if it was a comparatively (to something more heinous) simple case of child sedation/neglect, I cannot believe that their immersion into something far more catastrophic wouldn't have loosened tongues.
IMO, the only things that would keep them tight lipped is involvement in something BIG and/or having been paid off possibly via the Fund. All my own opinion of course

No evidence except their 'word' that the children were left alone.

Its more likely they were watched.  It was suggested that Paulo Rebelo thought that 7 children watched in one apartment, but media news so not proven to be correctly quoted.

That is my opinion too. Either by DW with the baby monitor or via a Tapas 9 Tag Team

Madeleine wasn't in her apartment on the night of REPORTED disappearance.......she was already dead IMO.

And that's why CM mentions 7 children.....all the rest less Madeleine !!

polyenne wrote:It was written by Peter Green but that is the Shadows lesser known version

Well you live and learn.

Isn't it more likely that all the children were in one room being looked after by an adult or adults rather than having them scattered in their own rooms, and each taking turn to visit them?
Who in their right mind would think musical chairs as a way to enjoy an evenings dining.

8 green bottles.

JRP wrote:

polyenne wrote:It was written by Peter Green but that is the Shadows lesser known version

Well you live and learn.

Both versions on this page :)

Fleetwood Mac 1968

Shadows 1980

https://secondhandsongs.com/performance/192539

I believe they were all left in one apartment. The musical chairs Tapas7 timeline cherade is their cover - whoever came up with that bit has the smarts (rules out DP!). 

The neglect of the kids has, in a rather sickening way turned out to save their arses. It gives cause to many questions but also their one solid answer: "we were checking on the kids every half hour."

If only one of them had slipped up in questioning. David Payne mentions Madeleine lying on the bed... this has clear significance imo. Just like Kate saying in her rogatory statement that cuddle cat was on the shelf...

I'm pretty sure she meant window ledge.

Thinking of the logistics of putting all the kids in one apartment makes me think it didn't happen. For starters the twins, Grace Oldfield and Scarlett Payne were too young for beds and would have all needed cots. That meant carting at least two extra cots to an apartment. Then you would have the hassle of collecting these kids (with a fair bit of liquor on board) carrying them back to their own beds and re-settling them plus carting back their cots . If they were doing so, surely they would have just hired a baby-sitter? 7 euro each would have given a baby-sitter 63 euro, not bad for a few hours sitting reading or watching T.V., wouldn't have been prohibitively expensive and meant the whole group were free to wine and dine. They speak so much about a "Baby listening service" and how they were operating "Their own version" of this that it leads me to take them literally and suspect that the kids were all in their own beds (certainly until Wed) while the on-duty Tapas member went from room to room "Listening". If something happened in this scenario the on-duty person is also in deep doodah which might explain why two more Tapas (him/her + partner) were readily on board with the cover-up.

Cut to the chase. 

Group arrive on Saturday 28th April 2007.  First night they all troop to he Millennium restaurant for eats.  The following morning they all troop to the Millennium restaurant for breakfast.  Then.....

The decision is made to dine at the Tapas restaurant every night (block booking) because  the Millennium was too far to trek for the McCann family without aid for the twins (no buggy until later when they have been photographed using same issued by Warners).

David Payne knew beforehand that Warners didn't provide a listening service because of the layout of the complex but they did provide a babysitting service for a nominal cost and a free night care facility at the creche rooms.  The reason given by the McCanns for not using either option provided by Warner was a) they didn't want the children's routine disrupted [they were on holiday, their routine was already disrupted] and b) they didn't want their children left in the care of strangers [extraordinary claim considering they left their children with the same strangers ever day at the creche].

Why was this all such a problem for the McCann family alone - because after breakfast on Sunday 29th May 2007, they were minus one child?  Why did the McCann family suddenly distance themselves from the communal activities of the rest of the group?  Why was the child listening service created rather than leaving their children in the care of professionals provided by Warners?  Why so much emphasis on every nights activities as regards who was where why and when aka the timeline?  Because the McCann family was minus one child?

Why does the entire weeks recount revolve around subterfuge?  Why did the McCann family talk of using different doors, different routes, different activities - never together as five?  Why was there no evidence of children in apartment 5a, shown in the PJ photographs?  Why was that digital camera strategically placed on the centre table?

The whole group went along with this rollercoaster - they contrived, cajoled and colluded - they are complicit, no ifs or buts or whys or wherefores, they are complicit.  Be it McCann, Oldfield, O'Brien, Tanner, Mampilly, Payne, Webster - they were and are complicit.

Why?  Would you sell your soul to the devil if innocent?

I digress.

Reading through an excellent theory atm with the "checks" as checks yes... but not on any kids, it's on the streets surrounding the apartments - the whole charade seems to be much more coherent now..

Remember Jez Wilkins saying there was a women in purple outside one of the apartments at 8.30pm - most likely Jane Tanner. Seems like they had "watchers" on the street from very early on, potentially keeping an eye on the area - while Gerry/Kate prepared Maddie.

I mean there whole story of doors at 45 degree angles and whooshing curtains is just so absurd, now if the apartment was locked and only Kate/Gerry had access - that's another dimension altogether!

Not that it matters much but do we know if any of the tapas lot smoke? JT looks like a smoker.

@Foxy101 

What are you talking about?  You're not making any sense.

CMoMM is a serious forum - it doesn't entertain time wasters.  Please try to be coherent .  Thank you !

There's no question that the McCanns stopped mixing during the day (and possibly at night) with the rest of their group if what they all tell us is true.They didn't join them for breakfast and lunch. The question is why? Was it because something had happened to Madeleine or because they had had a blazing row and were not speaking for a time? If so that could explain a lot, including taking the kids to creche separately, lack of family photos etc. We have all noted the dearth of photos of Madeleine but there is a dearth of photos of Kate and Gerry. I have not seen a single one of them as a couple or with the others in the group, even at night. I've been looking again at the list of those who say they saw Madeleine during the week and on Thurs 3rd as I wonder why Dr. Amaral still claims she was alive that day. They are, Maria Jose, the Tapas cook who was on duty for high tea who claims she saw her with the other kids at tea at 4.30pm,  Jeronimo Salcedas who also says he saw her at high tea at 4.45, Georgina Jackson who claims to have seen her at the mini tennis lesson she taught on Tuesday, Cat.Baker, Charlotte Pennington, Emma Wilding. Susan Owen, Stacy Portz, Sarah Williamson, Kirsty Maryan and Jacqueline Williams who claim to have seen/interacted with her during that week and on the 3rd. There are no statements from the sailing instructors although I assume the police spoke to them. They too may have claimed to have seen Madeleine, we just don't know. The police have noted the anomalies in the creche files and must have investigated this but they do not seem to doubt that Madeleine was seen alive on Thursday. The starting point of any investigation is establishing when the victim was last seen. The problem is that if Madeleine died on Sunday/Monday all these people must be mistaken or deliberately lying and that is hard to get one's head around. I understand why the tapas 9 would lie but why would ALL the others? Sunday/ Monday death for me is too long a cover-up.

Maybe all those witnesses were mistaken and it wasn't Madeleine they saw. There were, after all, lots of "pretty little blonde girls" (OWTTE) that week and GM even took a spare one to the crèche every day.

Verdi wrote:@Foxy101 

What are you talking about?  You're not making any sense.

CMoMM is a serious forum - it doesn't entertain time wasters.  Please try to be coherent .  Thank you !

I apologise but I was incredibly shattered last night, yet rivited trying to read one of the excellent theories on MM disappearance. Shouldn't have been doing the forum and reading at the same time.

I know it's a serious discussion forum, I have emailed Richard Hall and Hideho about my thoughts on the case. I was pretty young back when Maddie disappeared and couldn't understand why people were so sure anything but an abduction had taken place. 

Discovering this forum, Richard's videos, Bogart's theories, and the analysis of the McCann's statements has been illuminating!

+1000 HiDeHo, you are amazing, so grateful for all your hard work.

@ HiDeHO. I get what you're saying and in fact my own instincts are that Madeleine was dead by Thurs morning and the change in routine of the Tapas 7 by taking themselves and their kids far from the McCanns via the beach afternoon was no coincidence. However, I'd be amazed if the P.J. had not looked very closely at this. The reason the nannies testimonies are questionable is because in several instances they contradict the creche file records re who collected/ dropped Madeleine. My gut instinct is that the creche was a shambles with very lax record-keeping, retrospectively amended to disguise what an unprofessional mess it was, nannies were not where they were officially meant to be and different groups were put together because of small numbers. The files have a section dedicated to anomalies in creche records, so the P.J had picked up on this. There are examples too of mistakes in the files re days/dates, (from memory it it recorded that one nanny began work for M.W. @ Ocean Club in '06 instead of '07. so perhaps times/days were confused. I find it hard to believe that the deception went on from Sunday/Monday. I would love to see the results of those conversations with the sailing instructors. If they told the P.J. that they had Madeleine with them that day for sure then that would change things. I've just come across the case of a 2yr old who  allegedly went missing during a camping trip to a National Park in the U.S. It did not take the police long in this case to examine the possibility that he was never there.  I just don't get why Dr. Amaral still seems to believe she was alive on Thursday.

The McCann's distanced themselves from breakfast and lunches with the group after Sunday, and as HiDeHo has painstakingly worked out, there isn't a credible sighting after Sunday.
Nothing suddenly changed on Thursday to suggest a routine had changed, the pattern was set earlier in the week, so that they who should have been 5 were not seen as a 4 by anyone outside the main group.

The creche sheets are a complete red herring in my opinion, simply an aid to proving Madeleine attended each day up to and including Thursday.

@ JRP "Nothing suddenly changed on Thursday to suggest a routine had changed, the pattern was set earlier in the week, so that they who should have been 5 were not seen as a 4 by anyone outside the main group."


On Thursday, for the first time, all of the children except those of the McCanns, were taken to the beach along with the rest of the group and missed high tea at the Tapas, eating instead at the Paraiso. On the preceding Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday they had all had high tea at the Tapas so this is a change from routine. The group only arrived on Saturday afternoon and the McCanns  had only breakfasted once at the Milleneium and lunched once at Payne's (on Sunday) yet their not continuing to do so is regarded as a change of their routine. Therefore I would suggest not going for high tea on Thurs, having done so for the previous four days is also a change of routine.