Re: the smith sighting

by Rob Royston 05.04.17 13:02

Phoebe wrote:Indeed! the veracity of the Smith's statements need a large pinch of salt IMO! Aoife, allegedly, later described buttons on Smithman's trousers. Where were these "buttons"- on the flies? the side pockets? Given that she couldn't initially remember whether the child was barefoot and given that its feet would have been positioned near this part of the the carrier's trousers such a contradiction smacks of invention! I also find it strange that the others in the Smith group never made statements to the P.J. and that the P.J. felt the need to to ask Aoife to tell the truth.

Lots of pictures on Google if you search Gerry McCann button trousers, here's just one.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If you try and find them without mention of Gerry you will realize that they are a very rare and unusual design. There is a picture of them on Gerry's bed taken on the night of "the abduction".

by Phoebe 05.04.17 16:46

Rob Royston wrote:
Phoebe wrote:Indeed! the veracity of the Smith's statements need a large pinch of salt IMO! Aoife, allegedly, later described buttons on Smithman's trousers. Where were these "buttons"- on the flies? the side pockets? Given that she couldn't initially remember whether the child was barefoot and given that its feet would have been positioned near this part of the the carrier's trousers such a contradiction smacks of invention! I also find it strange that the others in the Smith group never made statements to the P.J. and that the P.J. felt the need to to ask Aoife to tell the truth.
Lots of pictures on Google if you search Gerry McCann button trousers, here's just one.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If you try and find them without mention of Gerry you will realize that they are a very rare and unusual design. There is a picture of them on Gerry's bed taken on the night of "the abduction".

Well, my hubby must be in rarified company as he had, and still has, similar trousers! Aoife Smith must have been some kind of "hawkeye" to have ("possibly with buttons") spotted them on a dark night. I had to zoom and search for them. She also saw his face, but not his ears! She, a twelve year old, raised on Penney's and Dunnes Stores clothes and track suits (like all Irish kids her age) can tell that his trousers "were cotton, thicker than linen". What did she do - cop a feel of them when he was passing to check for quality? She couldn't tell what he was wearing on top but her cousin claims it was a "black jacket". Are we to believe that his arm which was wrapped around the child in front of her escaped her notice, but she examined the side of his legs as he strode past and spotted small, colour coordinated buttons in the dim light? No wonder the cops, immediateley after this asked her to tell the truth.

by **Tony Bennett** 05.04.17 17:51

Phoebe wrote:
Rob Royston wrote:
Phoebe wrote:Indeed! the veracity of the Smith's statements need a large pinch of salt IMO! Aoife, allegedly, later described buttons on Smithman's trousers. Where were these "buttons"- on the flies? the side pockets? Given that she couldn't initially remember whether the child was barefoot and given that its feet would have been positioned near this part of the the carrier's trousers such a contradiction smacks of invention! I also find it strange that the others in the Smith group never made statements to the P.J. and that the P.J. felt the need to to ask Aoife to tell the truth.
Lots of pictures on Google if you search Gerry McCann button trousers, here's just one.
Well, my hubby must be in rarified company as he had, and still has, similar trousers! Aoife Smith must have been some kind of "hawkeye" to have ("possibly with buttons") spotted them on a dark night. I had to zoom and search for them. She also saw his face, but not his ears! She, a twelve year old, raised on Penney's and Dunnes Stores clothes and track suits (like all Irish kids her age) can tell that his trousers "were cotton, thicker than linen". What did she do - cop a feel of them when he was passing to check for quality? She couldn't tell what he was wearing on top but her cousin claims it was a "black jacket". Are we to believe that his arm which was wrapped around the child in front of her escaped her notice, but she examined the side of his legs as he strode past and spotted small, colour coordinated buttons in the dim light? No wonder the cops, immediately after this asked her to tell the truth.

There are two possible explanations for the above, bearing in mind the following FACT - namely that before the Smiths gave their statements on 26 May 2007 - 23 days after Madeleine had been reported missing - photographs of Gerry McCann wearing trousers with buttons were already in circulation (see, e.g. Rob Royston's post above):

Alternative 1: Aoife Smith had the most remarkable powers of observation of a man seen for about 2 seconds in the dark,

or

Alternative 2: Aoife Smith was coached by her father about what details she should give to the police about a bloke none of them ever saw.

by Phoebe 05.04.17 19:07

Tony Bennett wrote:
Phoebe wrote:
Rob Royston wrote:
Phoebe wrote:Indeed! the veracity of the Smith's statements need a large pinch of salt IMO! Aoife, allegedly, later described buttons on Smithman's trousers. Where were these "buttons"- on the flies? the side pockets? Given that she couldn't initially remember whether the child was barefoot and given that its feet would have been positioned near this part of the the carrier's trousers such a contradiction smacks of invention! I also find it strange that the others in the Smith group never made statements to the P.J. and that the P.J. felt the need to to ask Aoife to tell the truth.
Lots of pictures on Google if you search Gerry McCann button trousers, here's just one.
Well, my hubby must be in rarified company as he had, and still has, similar trousers! Aoife Smith must have been some kind of "hawkeye" to have ("possibly with buttons") spotted them on a dark night. I had to zoom and search for them. She also saw his face, but not his ears! She, a twelve year old, raised on Penney's and Dunnes Stores clothes and track suits (like all Irish kids her age) can tell that his trousers "were cotton, thicker than linen". What did she do - cop a feel of them when he was passing to check for quality? She couldn't tell what he was wearing on top but her cousin claims it was a "black jacket". Are we to believe that his arm which was wrapped around the child in front of her escaped her notice, but she examined the side of his legs as he strode past and spotted small, colour coordinated buttons in the dim light? No wonder the cops, immediately after this asked her to tell the truth.
There are two possible explanations for the above, bearing in mind the following FACT - namely that before the Smiths gave their statements on 26 May 2007 - 23 days after Madeleine had been reported missing - photographs of Gerry McCann wearing trousers with buttons were already in circulation (see, e.g. Rob Royston's post above):

Alternative 1: Aoife Smith had the most remarkable powers of observation of a man seen for about 2 seconds in the dark,

or

Alternative 2: Aoife Smith was coached by her father about what details she should give to the police about a bloke none of them ever saw.

Alternative 2 is the only option. Definitely fed her lines. The fact that the P.J bothered to include a written notation in a formal statement that she was asked to tell the truth tells it all. Was n't Jane Tanner's first description released, reluctantly, by the P.J after pressure from the McCanns et al. the day before, May 25th? What a coincidence!

by Phoebe 05.04.17 20:36

Searching the Irish newspaper archives is a treasure trove re Smithman. According to the Drogheda Independent of Wed. August 8th 2007 the Smiths said they only contacted police after their return to Ireland because one of the family had a "Flashback and encouraged the others to jog their memory. They remembered passing a man walking toward the beach with a child in his arms. Other than his approximate height and the fact that he was wearing beige clothes (no mention of jacket) they cannot be more specific than that. 'We are annoyed at how vague our description is' said the family member." Strange statement, having given such minute detail as small trouser buttons earlier. In this piece the Smiths make it clear to their local paper that they never made any report of the sighting until after they returned to Ireland - "Because the reported abduction times didn't ORIGINALLY ??? match they never had cause to examine their journey that night". What the hell does "Originally match" mean? If they saw him at a certain time, then they saw him at that time. Match what exactly?

by Rob Royston 05.04.17 23:15

Phoebe wrote:"Because the reported abduction times didn't ORIGINALLY ??? match they never had cause to examine their journey that night". What the hell does "Originally match" mean? If they saw him at a certain time, then they saw him at that time. Match what exactly?

They did not match the original reported abduction time of 21:15, I would guess.
I know the original sighting statement was not released immediately, but I'm pretty sure the papers would have had timelines in their stories from the get go.

by Rob Royston 05.04.17 23:31

Phoebe wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Phoebe wrote:
Rob Royston wrote:
Phoebe wrote:Indeed! the veracity of the Smith's statements need a large pinch of salt IMO! Aoife, allegedly, later described buttons on Smithman's trousers. Where were these "buttons"- on the flies? the side pockets? Given that she couldn't initially remember whether the child was barefoot and given that its feet would have been positioned near this part of the the carrier's trousers such a contradiction smacks of invention! I also find it strange that the others in the Smith group never made statements to the P.J. and that the P.J. felt the need to to ask Aoife to tell the truth.
Lots of pictures on Google if you search Gerry McCann button trousers, here's just one.
Well, my hubby must be in rarified company as he had, and still has, similar trousers! Aoife Smith must have been some kind of "hawkeye" to have ("possibly with buttons") spotted them on a dark night. I had to zoom and search for them. She also saw his face, but not his ears! She, a twelve year old, raised on Penney's and Dunnes Stores clothes and track suits (like all Irish kids her age) can tell that his trousers "were cotton, thicker than linen". What did she do - cop a feel of them when he was passing to check for quality? She couldn't tell what he was wearing on top but her cousin claims it was a "black jacket". Are we to believe that his arm which was wrapped around the child in front of her escaped her notice, but she examined the side of his legs as he strode past and spotted small, colour coordinated buttons in the dim light? No wonder the cops, immediately after this asked her to tell the truth.
There are two possible explanations for the above, bearing in mind the following FACT - namely that before the Smiths gave their statements on 26 May 2007 - 23 days after Madeleine had been reported missing - photographs of Gerry McCann wearing trousers with buttons were already in circulation (see, e.g. Rob Royston's post above):

Alternative 1: Aoife Smith had the most remarkable powers of observation of a man seen for about 2 seconds in the dark,

or

Alternative 2: Aoife Smith was coached by her father about what details she should give to the police about a bloke none of them ever saw.
Alternative 2 is the only option. Definitely fed her lines. The fact that the P.J bothered to include a written notation in a formal statement that she was asked to tell the truth tells it all. Was n't Jane Tanner's first description released, reluctantly, by the P.J after pressure from the McCanns et al. the day before, May 25th? What a coincidence!

That's quite a strong accusation you have both levelled at Mr Smith. Are you both saying that he made it all up?

Regarding Alternative 1: Aoife Smith had just got to the top of the steps when she saw the man with the child a few metres to her left. It's not very clear as to how the passed each other but if she was still on the steps and the man crossed in front of her then she would have had a perfect view of the buttons.

by Phoebe 06.04.17 2:26

Rob Royston wrote:
Phoebe wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Phoebe wrote:
Rob Royston wrote:
Lots of pictures on Google if you search Gerry McCann button trousers, here's just one.
Well, my hubby must be in rarified company as he had, and still has, similar trousers! Aoife Smith must have been some kind of "hawkeye" to have ("possibly with buttons") spotted them on a dark night. I had to zoom and search for them. She also saw his face, but not his ears! She, a twelve year old, raised on Penney's and Dunnes Stores clothes and track suits (like all Irish kids her age) can tell that his trousers "were cotton, thicker than linen". What did she do - cop a feel of them when he was passing to check for quality? She couldn't tell what he was wearing on top but her cousin claims it was a "black jacket". Are we to believe that his arm which was wrapped around the child in front of her escaped her notice, but she examined the side of his legs as he strode past and spotted small, colour coordinated buttons in the dim light? No wonder the cops, immediately after this asked her to tell the truth.
There are two possible explanations for the above, bearing in mind the following FACT - namely that before the Smiths gave their statements on 26 May 2007 - 23 days after Madeleine had been reported missing - photographs of Gerry McCann wearing trousers with buttons were already in circulation (see, e.g. Rob Royston's post above):

Alternative 1: Aoife Smith had the most remarkable powers of observation of a man seen for about 2 seconds in the dark,

or

Alternative 2: Aoife Smith was coached by her father about what details she should give to the police about a bloke none of them ever saw.
Alternative 2 is the only option. Definitely fed her lines. The fact that the P.J bothered to include a written notation in a formal statement that she was asked to tell the truth tells it all. Was n't Jane Tanner's first description released, reluctantly, by the P.J after pressure from the McCanns et al. the day before, May 25th? What a coincidence!
That's quite a strong accusation you have both levelled at Mr Smith. Are you both saying that he made it all up?

Regarding Alternative 1: Aoife Smith had just got to the top of the steps when she saw the man with the child a few metres to her left. It's not very clear as to how the passed each other but if she was still on the steps and the man crossed in front of her then she would have had a perfect view of the buttons.

I genuinely cannot believe that glimpsing, on a dark street at night, an unremarkable stranger, about whom in the family's own words (Drogheda Independent Aug 2007) they could remember "nothing other than an approximation of his height and that his clothes were beige" would enable anyone would take note of and remember, over 3 weeks later, a detail such as buttons (small and of the same colour as the material) on the side of trousers. I believe the Smiths saw a harmless passerby and were influenced by other descriptions.