Gerald McCann: CATS system - registration number 19309

Tigger: this is the law firm you mean; it was also involved with the setting up of the fund. There is a brief topic here called "IFLG and PACT".

If G thought that his wife might need help bathing 3 v young children, why did he not go and check himself?
Re bath- times and the P word. I did jury service once and one of 3 cases I heard was that of a father abusing his 2 daughters when they were very young. He broke down under intense cross-examination and admitted to numerous occasions which took place mostly at bath-times.
It can all seem so innocent to bathe very young children, before they reach an age where they would wish for and get privacy due to modesty and in any case, could easily bath themselves. Also on these occasions it would be totally normal for the young girls to be naked and to be touched.....so a perfect opportunity to abuse in a scenario that seemed completely innocent.
I can't imagine anyone wanting, let alone being allowed, to bathe anyone else's children.

Jean wrote:Tigger: this is the law firm you mean; it was also involved with the setting up of the fund. There is a brief topic here called "IFLG and PACT".

Thanks, I'll have a look at that. I'd forgotten about them, thought it strange that in the first place the McCs knew about this outfit. Amazing, every time we turn over a stone, something slimy creeps out. Hmm. Well chosen motto in that case McCanns!

russiandoll wrote:If G thought that his wife might need help bathing 3 v young children, why did he not go and check himself?
Re bath- times and the P word. I did jury service once and one of 3 cases I heard was that of a father abusing his 2 daughters when they were very young. He broke down under intense cross-examination and admitted to numerous occasions which took place mostly at bath-times.
It can all seem so innocent to bathe very young children, before they reach an age where they would wish for and get privacy due to modesty and in any case, could easily bath themselves. Also on these occasions it would be totally normal for the young girls to be naked and to be touched.....so a perfect opportunity to abuse in a scenario that seemed completely innocent.
I can't imagine anyone wanting, let alone being allowed, to bathe anyone else's children.


_______________________________________________

Yes, russiandoll, that sounds very similar to the 'abuse survivor story' I mentioned a couple of pages back.
I just don't get the men bathing other people's children.
I had a little girl stay with me and my boys for a few days several years back. She got filthy and needed a bath, but I wouldn't have dreamt of doing it without her parents permission...
Its just plain odd. If the parents are not around, fine, but if they're not?
I don't buy the Tapas men were being helpful or chivalrous, either. It all screams 'sinister' to me.

rainbow-fairy wrote:

jd wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned before on this topic but on the morning of 4th May 2007, the mccanns were questioned by Yvonne Martin who had been working for 25 years as a child protector. The aggression towards her and in particular david payne watching & then butting in telling her where to go is very suspicious. I tend to think they were worried by who she was and what she would/could find out about them which is the only explanation for their behaviour towards her. david payne seemed to be the one who 'needed' to be in the control of the situation so maybe he too has a 'number' hidden away and info deleted off the files somewhere? This also suggests gerrys CATS number was pre May 2007

You can read all Yvone's statements here and they are interesting with what she says http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic53.html

However, the third individual overheard this conversation and interrupted Ms. Martin and took the McCann couple away from her.
This same individual came shortly afterwards to tell her that the couple did not want to talk to her any further and did not require her help—an action that appeared quite strange to her.

But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine’s parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.

She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.

What is also interesting is that 'holiday' in Majorca in sept 2005 re Gaspar statement. Like the holiday in PDL, this Majorca holiday was also organised by david payne and most will be familiar with him and the men only bathing the kids and the remarks he made about Maddie. Why would any 'man' (let alone a woman) want to be bathing their friends kids!!!! A strong picture is forming here

On a separate note, would it be just 'coincidental' if these holidays both organised by david payne just happened to be at resorts where 2 directors of Madeleine Foundation alledgely happen to have property interests....Food for thought

jd, thank you! Yvonne Martin. Yes I mentioned her and their reactions to her back on p6 I think. Just I couldn't recall her surname - I'd got it in my head it was Woods, for some reason.
I don't know if I come from a family of Neanderthal males, but they would NEVER bath the kids, not in a million years, not even their own... I totally agree that a strong picture is emerging, one that begins with 'P' and ends with 'A'...
Not so long back I read one of those 'abuse survivor' books. It was truly heartbreaking. The girls step-father was the one, and she told very graphically what 'bath times' were like... I can't remember the title, as I have 1000+ books its hard to keep track Worth a read though, shows how low abusers will go, and how invariably they are usually seen as 'pillars of the community', locking the abused in a cycle of silence.
I hope there is an extra specially fiery place in hell for all those who abuse children in whatever form that takes, I really do...

What triggered my radar when it all happened (and tbh I wasn't paying tooo much attention, too busy in the USA, but I just knew that quite obviously the Govt were in cover-up mode, and ehn I heard GB was involved, a kid missing, cover-up = paedophilia again) was how all these millionaires seemed to be coming out of the woodwordk IN PdL to help, Brian Kennedy, Clement Freud, And yet GM always said he had no friends in PdL. So in a very dodgy case, a 'new' friend Brian Kennedy puts his head on the media chopping block. Of course at the time, like most casual but intrested observers, I had no idea who he was.
If everyone is following the paedophile angle, that possible MBM was being 'pimped out', then a large resort like this with dozens of entrances and exits, in the low season, would be the perfect place for such a ring to arrange for victims to be supplied. 5A is coincidentally right on the edge, but also very very close to RM's mother's house. And as jd says it looks like there is a pattern of previous holidays and golf-breaks at places possible owned or timeshared by other big players in this case.
I think R Murat fits a certain kind of profile, as does Pat Brown, as did the LP wo said he was a 90 per center. We know GM as much as lied when asked if he knew RM (asked when RM presumably was made an arguido), GM dodges the question and says I'm not going to comment on that.
Thing is I posted yesterday the witness statement of the chap that (innocently) introduced RM to GM as an interpreter, this was very late on the 3rd, during all the commotion. The witness assumed GM and RM were meeting for the first time, my feeling is that they knew each other from way further back.
Reasons? Just a gut feeling, plus there is something big going on with RM, so that BK had to fly out and meet at RM's house, with Smethurst and RM's lawyer, to thrash something out. The meeting was allegedly arranged through a mutual friend, who appears to be Smethurst.
Sweet!!! If true, that means property dealer and used car salesman RM hung out with a masonic feemason top lawyer, dodgy dodgy dodgy. Next, I ask, is RM on the square? A mason? I would put money on it. I heard Smethurst/BK offered RM a job - this sounds like witness tampering/bribery to me.
Allegedly the 'job' bever materialised. Or did it? Is RM working on this 'job' now. A job of course can just mean a contract to do certain things. Like maybe keep quiet, shut up, divert etc etc etc.

Advocatus wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:

Advocatus wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:

russiandoll wrote:I must have not communicated my thoughts very well as you and I are thinking along similar lines! I have read a few posts on other forums regarding this issue, from people thinking it is perfectly understandable that a file would be created for parents who admitted freely to leaving children unattended then one came to harm, [did not admit it, as that implies they were asked a question.... they actively brought "neglect" to everyone's attention].
I was saying here that there would be no reason to delete anything if this was standard social services procedure. I should have stated also that it is not a social services system but a police system for child protection [ isn't it? hope I am correct here]
I do not see how it could have been related to a social services visit that I believe was requested by the McCanns on their return to UK as has been suggested elsewhere.
Bottom line is, I never did believe this file was created for any reason to do with possible neglect in May 07. I too believe it was in existence before that date, maybe a long time before.
Wondering what you thought I was saying....but I was not disagreeing with people who find this file and deletion of contents suspicious....my post was titled DODGY after all !!

russiandoll, I agree with all your conclusions, bar one. I have to say I unequivocally believe that in no shape or form did the McCanns request the Social Services visit. They just had to go along with what would be an automatic referral. I believe that 'we asked for a Social Services visit' is pure desperate spin, and in the same vein as Robert Murat+Arguido='Suspect', Kate/Gerry McCann+Arguido='Persons of Interest'.
No, I think Kate's alleged reaction to the Social Worker (was her name Yvonne somebody?) In PdL tells you all you need to know. She wasn't welcome and I'd bet my bottom dollar the ones who visited weren't, either. We are told, by Kate and Gerry (natch!) That the visiting social workers were 'obviously embarrassed to be having to scrutinising them' and that their conclusion was all was well (how could it be? One child missing allegedly as a result of neglect!?!) The thing is, family courts and social services are done so secretly we'd have no way of verifying this. Sean and Amelie could be on a child protection register for all we know. Also, who is to say that the 'Ward of Court' wasn't ordered by family court? Of course the version we are told is that WOC gives greater powers to aid a search etc, yet to my knowledge Ben Needham wasn't made a Ward?
TBH, I don't believe a word either of the McCanns say. If either of them said I was alive I'd feel my pulse to check...

Spot-on rainbow-fairy. More later on the 'stolen' wallet fairytale!!!

Uh-huh. I think somebody googled the wrong keyword, pressed the wrong button and then accidentally-on-purpose put in their card details before realising it was the 'wrong' site - I don't think so! Methinks someone has been a very naughty boy. I wasn't born yesterday nor am I as dim as I sometimes sound

I used to be a very senior credit card troubleshooter/systems analyst/fraud analyst and so on for one of top 3 players in the biz, Gerry's fairytale does not add up whatsoever. More when I get on a proper laptop. This credit card loss bullmerde is one of the biggest red flags I have ever seen.

But even preceded by THAT hokum, the Leicester Police refused to provide detailed credt/debit card transaction history, bank history et cetera.

That in itself is a scandal in a potential homicide inquiry.

Yes, homicide, sorry.
OK was reading some stats yesterday where some major CC company, forget who, said 350,000 of their tranx were to paedophile sites. That number, to me, is astonishing, and shows that the particular crime is on the rise.
The first things an accused paedophile says when questioned by the police are, someone hacked my computer, someone stole my wallet/credit cards, and so on.
The PJ initially asked if GM and KM had any cards, and they were bizarrely told 'no'...
The chief constable of Leicester Police was clearly lying when he said the PJ were being given full help and cooperation, when the simplest of things could not be supplied. The PJ were refused access to medical records, financial records, credit/debit card records (which can obviously pin point what you are purchasing, but also when and where), in fact any request was met with either a refusal, or the very bare minimum.
When the chief constable made his statement he was aware of the Gaspar statement. It could have blown the case wide open, but the LP stalled on sending it to Goncalo, for obvious reasons. From memory they kept this info for five months.
G Brown gets a call from Portugal - "he's off the case..." - two hours later Goncalao is called to his suoperior's office and told the same thing. So we know who is pulling all the strings here, the Lisbon Treaty about to be signed, full glare on Portugal etc etc etc
Shortly, I think it was 5 days or so, the vital Gaspar statements make their way to the PJ, now rudderless...
One last thing before the wallet theft fairytale. The initial findings from the FSS lab in Birmingham were that the sample matched Maddie to a RCH under 100pc - Stuart Prior and GA were cock-ahoop, with 15 out of 19 alleles matching, enough to convict in the UK and most countries.
But not so quick - Gordon hears about this and gathers up his Nokias, next minute FSS are pressured into issuing backtracking statements, lead LP Detective Stuart Prior is 'furious' in PT - but the Gordon magick has worked again. As a bonus prize the FSS is shut down.
The wallet - best thing to do is read this brilliant article by Dr Robert Martins: Max Bygraves
16 March 2011

"I WANNA TELL YOU A STORY"
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id356.html

I would be most interested to hear of the findings of the credit card fraud expert that posted here this week. I am new to this board and my brain is frazzled! GA, PB, NSY, Court cases, CATS its endless!

Just out of curiousity, did Gerry Mccann claim to have had his credit card stolen, and if so, was it ever returned?

justme3 wrote:Just out of curiousity, did Gerry Mccann claim to have had his credit card stolen, and if so, was it ever returned?

Hi justme3, yes he did and yes it was!
IIRC, he claimed his wallet was stolen whilst he was using a cashpoint near Downing Street. It was subsequently returned, missing only some photo's of Maddie, I believe?
Was this a cover story to divert from what the card may have been used for? If it was kiddie p***, that would tie in with the 'theft' of the photo's of a child. Just a thought?

My thoughts exactly! I've never contributed to the child abuse by the parents debate, but something stinks here. The CATS file obviously exists, and even though I am no expert on this issue, NO ONE has a CATS file without a reason. So, when Madeliene "went missing" and Gerry, at least, has a CATS file , it now makes sense why an "abduction" was their only way out.

And what another coincidence...............he lost his card near DOWNING STREET!

justme3 wrote:My thoughts exactly! I've never contributed to the child abuse by the parents debate, but something stinks here. The CATS file obviously exists, and even though I am no expert on this issue, NO ONE has a CATS file without a reason. So, when Madeliene "went missing" and Gerry, at least, has a CATS file , it now makes sense why an "abduction" was their only way out.

And what another coincidence...............he lost his card near DOWNING STREET!

Well, if you check Forensic Linguistics, Gerry tells the journalist as early as 7/7/07 'the kids don't go to school for three years'. Meaning the twins, excluding Maddie and in answer to a question of how long they were staying in Portugal.
I'm still firmly convinced they meant to have a new lifestyle, (also see topic on the Original Plan). I also had a feeling they were trying to get away from something....

When tragedy hits, the only place a person wants to be is with his/her family. Strange that they had no intention of coming home from Portugal until they were made arguidos, then they couldn't get out of there quick enough. And even then, they were treated like VIPs.



One may sometimes tell a lie, but the grimace that accompanies it tells the truth.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Here is an intriguing thought. No cashpoints near downing street. Google maps has nearest at charing cross one end. Of whitehall and the others at the other end of parliament street in. Victoria street near the WE conference centre . The length of both roads is virtually all government buildings and full of tourists and police where downing street is guarded and blocked off to us ordinary types. So, reporting a theft would be easy but finding a Cashpoint not so easy or quick. I will stand corrected if someone knows more or even if the location is revealed of course. The treasury is quite close!

Sorry... the QE conference centre. Neither could be described as near downing street. So imo that name drop was for effect.

Now WHERE have I heard the names Gordon Brown and George Robinson before

It's good to go over old ground. One never knows what one has missed!

Blair's Protection of Elite Paedophile Rings Spells the End For His Career - NATO boss and Blair government insider Lord Robertson has threatened to sue Scotland's leading independent newspaper over internet allegations that he not only used his influence as a Freemason to procure a gun licence for child killer Thomas Hamilton, but was also a member of a clandestine paedophile ring reportedly set up by Hamilton for the British elite

justme3 wrote:My thoughts exactly! I've never contributed to the child abuse by the parents debate, but something stinks here. The CATS file obviously exists, and even though I am no expert on this issue, NO ONE has a CATS file without a reason. So, when Madeliene "went missing" and Gerry, at least, has a CATS file , it now makes sense why an "abduction" was their only way out.

And what another coincidence...............he lost his card near DOWNING STREET!

It definitely stinks and surely if it stinks of fish to us, then it should also stink to those currently investigating the whole affair.

The CATS File could easily be investigated by those with the appropriate authority - Scotland Yard perhaps? Even if it is empty, it can give up a lot of useful information - eg. WHEN was it opened . If the file itself doesn't have a date, what is the created date for the file number before and after this one. Dead easy for those with the power and authority to investigate. Then the issue is either closed - the file was opened after 3 May 2007 - or the issue is now a big open can of worms because the file was opened before 3 May 2007.


Same with the credit card - easy to look at transactions for those with relevant power and authority to do so....Let's hope they're asking the right questions and not only looking in one direction

justme3 wrote:Now WHERE have I heard the names Gordon Brown and George Robinson before

It's good to go over old ground. One never knows what one has missed!

Blair's Protection of Elite Paedophile Rings Spells the End For His Career - NATO boss and Blair government insider Lord Robertson has threatened to sue Scotland's leading independent newspaper over internet allegations that he not only used his influence as a Freemason to procure a gun licence for child killer Thomas Hamilton, but was also a member of a clandestine paedophile ring reportedly set up by Hamilton for the British elite

Indeed. The Dunblane cover-up, Gordon, can't help feeling this all links back somehow...

Stewie wrote:

justme3 wrote:My thoughts exactly! I've never contributed to the child abuse by the parents debate, but something stinks here. The CATS file obviously exists, and even though I am no expert on this issue, NO ONE has a CATS file without a reason. So, when Madeliene "went missing" and Gerry, at least, has a CATS file , it now makes sense why an "abduction" was their only way out.

And what another coincidence...............he lost his card near DOWNING STREET!

It definitely stinks and surely if it stinks of fish to us, then it should also stink to those currently investigating the whole affair.

The CATS File could easily be investigated by those with the appropriate authority - Scotland Yard perhaps? Even if it is empty, it can give up a lot of useful information - eg. WHEN was it opened . If the file itself doesn't have a date, what is the created date for the file number before and after this one. Dead easy for those with the power and authority to investigate. Then the issue is either closed - the file was opened after 3 May 2007 - or the issue is now a big open can of worms because the file was opened before 3 May 2007.


Same with the credit card - easy to look at transactions for those with relevant power and authority to do so....Let's hope they're asking the right questions and not only looking in one direction

Indeedy Stewie.

The 'empty' file doesn't wash with me - no way is a file opened if there is nothing to go in it. Not a chance.

Incidentally, I'm not sure even if it was opened after May 3rd it would mean case closed either. I've seen it written that it was a file created after the infamous 'Social Services' visit to Rothley. That can't be right either. It wouldn't be empty in that instance, it would contain details of the meeting and conversations, along with any recommendations - eg No Further Action, Child Protection measures (Sec 47) or Child in Need Measures (Sec 17). It wouldn't be 'empty'.

As I understand it, the CATS system is spftware used for sharing information between Police and Social Services concerning child protection an d vulnerable ADULTS and is used to build up a picture of the needs of the vulnerable person and the family so that protection plans can be prepared as necessary. Now if that is the case, why would the file be in the name of GM and not in the whole family name? Does the file refer to the vulnerable person, or another familial adult, or a child? Surely in an investigation of a serious crime, medical health records and records of this nature cannot be held back from the investigating police. It is a small wonder why they and their 'followers' cannot understand why people question their 'account'.

anil39200 wrote:As I understand it, the CATS system is spftware used for sharing information between Police and Social Services concerning child protection an d vulnerable ADULTS and is used to build up a picture of the needs of the vulnerable person and the family so that protection plans can be prepared as necessary. Now if that is the case, why would the file be in the name of GM and not in the whole family name? Does the file refer to the vulnerable person, or another familial adult, or a child? Surely in an investigation of a serious crime, medical health records and records of this nature cannot be held back from the investigating police. It is a small wonder why they and their 'followers' cannot understand why people question their 'account'.

Exactly. And the file would not be empty... it stinks to high heaven

I've been doing some research into CATS. All I want is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth:

WPC is pleased to announce that it has been awarded the contract to support and maintain CATS – Case Administration and Tracking System which currently has two modules – Child Protection and Domestic Abuse. CATS can also be configured to record information about Vulnerable Adults if required.

The CATS system was developed in the absence of a national database for Child Protection, and in light of the recommendation in Lord Laming’s Report into the death of Victoria Climbie that Chief Constables must ensure that their police force has in use an effective Child Protection database and IT management system. The Domestic Abuse module was developed later to complement the Child Protection system.
System Benefits

• CATS gives police officers a much clearer picture of the child or vulnerable person referred to them. The data collected in CATS can be used to piece together vital information on family background of that individual, helping the officer make more informed decisions.

• CATS may also be used to help identify previous accusations against suspects offering further lines of investigation and valuable information to help assess the safety of the vulnerable person. It may also be used to help identify repeat offenders.

There was nothing in the file, no work had been done as it was not deemed necessary at the required time of enquiry and it was just a registration number. No cover-up, no conspiracy just paperwork and file allocation numbers issued just in case and at the onset of the incident, namely the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Here is the link for those who haven't read it, and would like to read it in its entirety

http://regretsandramblings.com/2011/10/07/cats-case-administration-tracking-system/

Does Mrs McCann have a CATS system registration number too?

MrsC wrote:Does Mrs McCann have a CATS system registration number too?

Pretty sure they both did...

I still find it strange to create a file without content.
The information given in the link above doesn't give the date the file was created. Which would be of interest. I was under the impression a year ago that it was created a fairly long time before 3/5/07.

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Related link: https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4170-did-jim-gamble-sanitize-gerry-mccann-s-cats-file-19309

justme3 wrote:I've been doing some research into CATS. All I want is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth:

WPC is pleased to announce that it has been awarded the contract to support and maintain CATS – Case Administration and Tracking System which currently has two modules – Child Protection and Domestic Abuse. CATS can also be configured to record information about Vulnerable Adults if required.

The CATS system was developed in the absence of a national database for Child Protection, and in light of the recommendation in Lord Laming’s Report into the death of Victoria Climbie that Chief Constables must ensure that their police force has in use an effective Child Protection database and IT management system. The Domestic Abuse module was developed later to complement the Child Protection system.
System Benefits

• CATS gives police officers a much clearer picture of the child or vulnerable person referred to them. The data collected in CATS can be used to piece together vital information on family background of that individual, helping the officer make more informed decisions.

• CATS may also be used to help identify previous accusations against suspects offering further lines of investigation and valuable information to help assess the safety of the vulnerable person. It may also be used to help identify repeat offenders.

There was nothing in the file, no work had been done as it was not deemed necessary at the required time of enquiry and it was just a registration number. No cover-up, no conspiracy just paperwork and file allocation numbers issued just in case and at the onset of the incident, namely the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.



Here is the link for those who haven't read it, and would like to read it in its entirety

http://regretsandramblings.com/2011/10/07/cats-case-administration-tracking-system/

I've read it before. Considering it comes from a notorious 'Anti' turned 'Pro', I wouldn't take it as gospel.

Just to draw attention to this paragraph;

There was nothing in the file, no work had been done as it was not deemed necessary at the required time of enquiry and it was just a registration number. No cover-up, no conspiracy just paperwork and file allocation numbers issued just in case and at the onset of the incident, namely the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

This just does not stand up to scrutiny. Paperwork and file allocation numbers are not made 'just in case at the onset of the incident', then ignored. At the very least the Social Services visit would be written up inside.

They must think we are stupid.