Mikaeel Kular

Poor little innocent.

My heart does go out to his family members though, they must be in turmoil at the news.

Just a bunch of people, who when prompted, can smell a rat and during discussion with one another, can, usually come up with something close to, if not THE truth. I have never gone on that site and don't think I ever will. None of us EVER wanted this outcome for Mikaeel but sadly, we got it.

So, so sad. RIP wee chap. When I went to bed last night there was still hope (although I did fear the worst) and I got up early this morning to go through to Edinburgh to help. I knew the Emergency services were searching throughout the night , so checked the BBC in the hope they'd found the 'wee scone' (local phrase). Sadly Twitter states that in the light of the discovery volunteers are no longer required. Such a tragic loss of a young life just starting.

tiny wrote:

tiny wrote:From sky news live updates.

John Moses, a former Royal Military Policeman and detective, tells Sky News the evidence in the case points towards a "professional abduction". Read the full story here:

What can one say

Well, God preserve us from the ignorant utterances of so-called experts like this.
As for the chorus of ignorance from JATYK - not a flicker of logic between them. And so loudly amplified.
A tragic outcome. RIP Mikaeel.

I know who I am, a person who 10 minutes ago tuned in to the news and was greeted by a breaking story which has shocked, but not surprised me.

The little body has been found at the property of a relative.  Just saw the re-run of the ACC making the announcement of this grim discovery to the press who gasped when they got the news. The man, as did his Chief Super last night, looked drained and there were tears in his eyes. I thought it was telling when he made an appearance alongside his Super last night, looked as if things were heading in a firm direction and it was clear from their faces when they spoke of the possibility of Mikaeel having left under his own steam and might be safe, that they did not believe it.

I am not a heartless hater, because there are tears in my eyes, knowing that if not his mother, a member of his family has allowed police and strangers who cared enough to go out in all weather for up to 8 hours at a time to search, to believe that he had possibly left a building alone and although unlikely as time passed, could be found alive.

He did not leave of his own volition. He was taken and by a person he knew, loved and almost certainly trusted.

 And hateful to link this to Madeleine?

 Not at all. Same age, similar size, different circumstances.

 Same story : put to bed, all was well, then was reported gone.


It does not mean that Maddie was taken by a family member and her body concealed while a story was concocted to cover up the reality.

 It is proof , however, that when police hear a story like this, look at the crime scene and check the timeline, they are right to consider IF IN DOUBT THINK MURDER and follow their procedures stating   CONSIDER CAREFULLY THAT THE PERSON REPORTING THE CRIME IS THE PERPETRATOR AND COVERING ANOTHER CRIME.

The police here have worked according to logic and deductive reasoning.

The mother is detained, not yet arrested as is the first stage in England. The police have a fixed time for interviewing her, then releasing her or arresting her and then charging her.

 She might be innocent of any crime, having no knowledge of what happened to her son and a grieving mother.
 But they clearly believe that with all the information they have, forensic and otherwise, she is to be detained.

  The local community and people who searched for many hours, will probably need to gather somewhere for a collective coming to terms with the fact that a family member knew his fate then spun this tale, then remember him together and wonder at the deceit and cunning of human nature.

Because whoever took him was not a stranger in the night. Whether he died because of an accident, manslaughter or murder, a member of his family knew that he was dead and at least one person knew why.


 RIP little Mikaeel and may you receive justice.

Tony Bennett wrote:The JATYK forum has been relentlessly attacking members of this forum for the past two days in relation to missing Mikaeel, in a thread about ‘numpties’. Not surprisingly, this morning they have fallen silent, no doubt with embarrassment, as the suspicions aired here have proved, sadly, all too correct. Here are some samples of their idiocy:

+++++++++++++++++ 

Nigel Nessling:  A perfect description of the whole sickening lot of them, entertaining themselves by stalking the child's family, making up crap, thinking they're entitled to know what's in '911' calls, speculating and generally behaving like, well, pitchforkers. All over again.

OTHERS

1 You know, why waste your time with proper professionals when there are loads of crackpot ignorant busybodies they could be using, for free?

2 It shows how warped her thinking is that she thinks there's something odd about a three year old with a bad cold staying at home in January, in Scotland - to anyone normal, that would be GOOD.

3 They'd all be well advised to STFU and stop showing themselves up; they haven't a clue what they're talking about - not that that has ever stopped them.

4 They all want to be experts, Bonny. What a joke and it's not even April 1st.

5 she's just another armchair defective

6 She doesn't even know that Scottish schools broke up before Christmas and didn't go back till the 6th.

7 Even worse, she doesn't even know that Mikaeel is at NURSERY, not school, and NURSERY is not compulsory. There's nothing particularly odd about a three year old staying home from NURSERY with a bad cold, especially at this time of year.

8 Ignorant, pitchforking attention-seekers

9 gross ignorance from the pitchforkers

10 They are all really showing themselves in their true colours now, Lily. They seem to have some kind of mental illness - this goes well beyond taking an interest, and hoping the little boy will be found safe and well.

11 They're revelling in this, playing armchair defective all over again and enjoying speculating. It's a most unpleasant sight.

Finally, yesterday I posted this:

Judging by the latest leaks, about Mikaeel 'not being at nursery all week', I am wondering if this is a possible scenario:
1. Parents cry 'abduction'
2. Boy said to be missing from bed sometime after 9pm in the evening
3. Cock-and-bull stories about 'first time he had slept in his own room', '3-yr-old perfectly capable of getting dressed and walking out on his own' etc etc
4. Conflicting claims about when the boy was first noticed missing
5. No evidence whatseover of abduction
6. Boy actually 'disappeared' several days ago
7. Mother and maybe at least one other planned an abduction hoax
8. 'Look over here, don't look over there' - typical magician's trick scenario


This drew the response from a JATYK member:

Just who the hell do they think they are?

A bit more savvy than you dumbo,s

Well said RD.
Simple rule of thumb, first and last, the investigators' duty is to the child and to that end they proceed without fear or favour.
The British police, catastrophically for Madeleine, lost sight of this when they turned up in Portugal wearing McCann-issue wristbands. That's called favour.

[quote="Tony Bennett"][font=Verdana]The JATYK forum has been relentlessly attacking members of this forum for the past two days in relation to missing Mikaeel, in a thread about ‘numpties’. Not surprisingly, this morning they have fallen silent, no doubt with embarrassment, as the suspicions aired here have proved, sadly, all too correct. Here are some samples of their idiocy:[/font


**********************
Seems to me posters here have expressed compassion, concern and objective reasoned comment.

From what I've now seen of JATYK, those posters are full of vitriolic paranoia, do they have no normal feelings ?

The silent witness tells its story, that is the saying of the pathologists who conduct autopsies, isn't it?

    The little body will probably have to be left in situ for a while, and forensics will  have been at work already on the basics. They are usually called shortly after discovery for an initial assessment.
 I feel for them and the police, whose human instinct would be to give the little body some dignity after discovering it deposited without respect. They would want to remove it from the cold, wet and dirt and take it somewhere where it could be cleaned, wrapped and be treated with respect.

    Even the basics will give clues as to how long Mikaeel has been at that location.

    The police will I think get a confession, if they have not done so already.

  There might be a tragic accident behind this, maybe accidentally harmed by a sibling and panic followed to protect another child.

   Or it might be a darker story. We will know soon enough.

  I hope that little boy can be moved soon, although he will now have to undergo a post-mortem examination and so still can't rest in peace.

 He will eventually and at least for now, he is not in danger. RIP little one.

tiny wrote:

tiny wrote:

John Moses, a former Royal Military Policeman and detective, tells Sky News the evidence in the case points towards a "professional abduction". Read the full story here:

What can one say

So much for the prediction of this so called expert then ?
The Mccanns must have been chuffed at his comment yesterday.

Has Kate, the Ambassador of Missing People, having a daughter taken from bed, said anything yet ?

Sky news says the body will be examined by forensics in situ in the back garden. It is possible then that he was left there without grandma's knowledge and believe she is not currently there.

correction

UD...I believe that when a body is discovered a duty forensics officer is on the scene rapidly, to do an assessment and so provide detectives with yet more valuable info for their investigations.


e.g. it might have been immediately established that the body had been lying there for longer than 48 hours.

Very sad news. The search for this boy did remind me of the Stuart Hazell/ Tia Sharp case. All those people and sniffer dogs looking outside for a living child when in reality a body was concealed somewhere. I didn't want to suspect the mother but her story didn't add up and she was last to see him and not a shred of CCTV, just like Hazell's odd story.

  There are alot of logical people on this forum who look at the facts first. It reinforces for me that people who don't suspect the parents in other certain cases are in a state of denial and cognitive dissonance. They will accept any theory but the most plausible one, that some parents do harm their children.

Upsy Daisy wrote:Sky news says the body will be examined by forensics in situ in the back garden. It is possible then that he was left there without grandma's knowledge and believe she is not currently there.

I'm confused. Wasn't he found in his Aunt's empty bungalow ?
The Mum was seen driving up there alone last week.
It is possible he was left in the empty property, and her family members knew nothing about it.

ChippyM wrote:Very sad news. The search for this boy did remind me of the Stuart Hazell/ Tia Sharp case. All those people and sniffer dogs looking outside for a living child when in reality a body was concealed somewhere. I didn't want to suspect the mother but her story didn't add up and she was last to see him and not a shred of CCTV, just like Hazell's odd story.

  There are alot of logical people on this forum who look at the facts first. It reinforces for me that people who don't suspect the parents in other certain cases are in a state of denial and cognitive dissonance. They will accept any theory but the most plausible one, that some parents do harm their children.

When I saw the searchers combing the foreshore yesterday I thought it had a kind of "make work" look about it - even the Police admitted that they were overwhelmed by the number of willing helpers who turned up. I wonder how long they've known for? I would have thought that property connected to the family would be among the first places to be searched.

Were wider McCann family properties in the UK ever forensically searched? In light of this case perhaps that might have been a good idea.

I just visited the JATYK site for the first time, am I reading correctly that they have 15 registered users?

According to 192,   the aunt, the mother, the grandmother and a male all lived at that house at one time or another.

http://www.192.com/atoz/people/kular/pandeep/


 I suppose it will become clear in time, who was living at the address (if anyone)  at the time of the boys death.


( Just editing to add there is a more recent entry on 192 for the aunt, mother and grandmother, grandmother seems to have remarried.)

ChippyM wrote:Very sad news. The search for this boy did remind me of the Stuart Hazell/ Tia Sharp case. All those people and sniffer dogs looking outside for a living child when in reality a body was concealed somewhere. I didn't want to suspect the mother but her story didn't add up and she was last to see him and not a shred of CCTV, just like Hazell's odd story.

  There are alot of logical people on this forum who look at the facts first. It reinforces for me that people who don't suspect the parents in other certain cases are in a state of denial and cognitive dissonance. They will accept any theory but the most plausible one, that some parents do harm their children.

The last person to have seen the child or the person who raised the alarm MUST be investigated, especially if it quickly becomes apparent that the story does not add up.

I've just watched the BBC footage of the statement from the ACC again. The poor man is quite obviously emotional about the result and the very audible gasps from the assembled when he said a body had been found, then again when he said they had detained someone, show that everyone had believed a good outcome was possible. Perhaps it is the fact that so many 'good people' had turned out to help gave hope that there wasn't a 'bad' person involved.

the aunt, not the grandmother.

Property according to Sky is that of the mother's sister and little Mikaeel is outside in the rear garden area...which is next to woodland.

 The police have 12 hours to question the mother under detention rules, then an application can be made for an extra 12 , after which she must be released or arrested, the latter is effectively charging her.

Sky news showed back of house -body in woodlands behind garden.can't imagine how distraught neighbours will feel knowing he was there. Just awful. Now saying it's the home of Mikaeel's Auntie.

The Rooster wrote:I just visited the JATYK site for the first time, am I reading correctly that they have 15 registered users?

As many as that, Rooster?!

Still, with quality like those 15, they don't need any more.


P.S. I've just checked - didn't risk my blood pressure by reading any comments - and there are 36 registered users.