Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

Greater Manchester police chief faces criminal investigation
Peter Fahy to be interviewed under criminal caution over claims officers allowed boy to enter suspected paedophile's home

Sir Peter Fahy, the chief constable of Greater Manchester police, is to be interviewed under criminal caution as part of an investigation into whether his force allowed a teenager to enter the home of an alleged paedophile.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission announced on Tuesday that Fahy and other top officers from GMP had been placed under investigation over a series of allegations. The IPCC has launched three investigations into GMP after hearing claims from a whistleblower, who is a serving officer.

The allegations against GMP included that officers:
• Bugged an office at GMP and allowed armed robbers who were under surveillance to attack a pub instead of stopping them.
• Failed to intervene and detain a suspected sex offender who was under surveillance, but as police tried to gather more evidence, allowed a child to enter the suspect's home.
• Mishandled the disposal of body parts belonging to victims of the serial killer Dr Harold Shipman.

The IPCC said the investigation into Fahy related to allegations that may breach the criminal law and police discipline regulations. They stem from the allegation that GMP detectives allowed an operation into a suspected paedophile to run on too long, and thus placed a teenager in danger of being attacked. The criminal investigation into Fahy will examine if he had knowledge of the operation into the sex offender and of the strategic decisions it operated within.

Carrry On Doctor wrote:Interesting news today regarding Manchester Chief of Police being served a criminal and misconduct notice due to a poorly handled investigation.

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A DS and a DCI also served with criminal and misconduct notices.

Sky News reporting probe was set up due to whistle-blower within the force. Somebody didn't like what was going on ?

Surely, taking into account the size of OG, the mccann affair cannot be a whitewash ?

MP calls for head of Greater Manchester Police to be suspended after criminal probe is launched by watchdog into his role in 'bungled' sex crime suspect investigation
Chief constable Sir Peter Fahy handed criminal and gross misconduct notice
55-year-old is one of three serving officers to be served with notice by IPCC
Notice in relation to 'poorly-handled' investigation of suspected sex offender
Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk has called for him to be suspended from duty

jeanmonroe wrote:

Carrry On Doctor wrote:Interesting news today regarding Manchester Chief of Police being served a criminal and misconduct notice due to a poorly handled investigation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A DS and a DCI also served with criminal and misconduct notices.

Sky News reporting probe was set up due to whistle-blower within the force. Somebody didn't like what was going on ?

Surely, taking into account the size of OG, the mccann affair cannot be a whitewash ?

A LOT of police 'whistleblowers' have come out of the woodwork during the past month!

SDS (undercover cops)
Driscoll. Lambeth 'abuse'
Rochdale. Cyril Smith 'abuse'

The MORE police 'whistleblowers' the better, imo.

But DCI Redwood hasn't got to worry about THAT!

He's got enough 'worries' about what the 'files' the PJ will 'release' will 'expose' about the Met co-operation, or NOT, if they re-shelve, NOT CLOSE, their latest 'investigation'!

Just like Stuart Prior, of Leicester Police, had to face, not realising, his, er, 'helpfulness', to the Madeleine 'investigation' he led, would be released, by the PJ. He never, in his worst nightmare, THOUGHT his er, 'input' into his investigation with the PJ would EVER 'see the light of day'

But we all know what THOUGHT did, don't we?

So does Stuart Prior..........NOW!
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"We prefer not to discuss this with Detective Superintendent Stuart Prior of Leicestershire Police. We have the impression that he is only here to accompany the McCanns' interrogations and to prevent their detention. His concern on that subject is obvious" (to us, the PJ).

Carrry On Doctor wrote:
SY daren't risk a whitewash as it will be a massive own goal for them and the British Government.
So I have faith, but the delay is frustrating.
IMO

PeterMac wrote:

Carrry On Doctor wrote:
SY daren't risk a whitewash as it will be a massive own goal for them and the British Government.
So I have faith, but the delay is frustrating.
IMO

So is their only get-out option -  Incompetence ?
That has its own problems since they could simply appoint another SIO to review what was done and then do it properly.

GA does a review of his own enquiry, of sorts, and comes to some conclusions about what HE / they should have done, and points up mistakes HE / they made.

Carrry On Doctor wrote:
This case is not going to go away and SY know it.
Evidence allowing, I think they have no choice but to see it through (not that I doubted an intended whitewash in the first place).
IMO

Carrry On Doctor wrote:Indeed Peter !

We can only live in hope, although AR's pending retirement does concern me slightly. I would have thought continuity would be needed, but I don't know how these things work.

Carrry On Doctor wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:[
Just like Stuart Prior, of Leicester Police, had to face, not realising, his, er, 'helpfulness', to the Madeleine 'investigation' he led, would be released, by the PJ. He never, in his worst nightmare, THOUGHT his er, 'input' into his investigation with the PJ would EVER 'see the light of day'

Exactly, and OG know the PJ will do the same again.

The PJ have not re-opened the case and co-operated with SY simply to go through the motions. They want a result. Payback time after their reputation being trashed.

SY daren't risk a whitewash as it will be a massive own goal for them and the British Government.

So I have faith, but the delay is frustrating.

IMO

PeterMac wrote:

OR, might not a dawn raid be AR's parting shot.
Organises the raid, sets the scene, quietly exits stage- left,  and lets his team of professionals get on with it, with no further intervention from him.

Praiaaa wrote:

PeterMac wrote:

OR, might not a dawn raid be AR's parting shot.
Organises the raid, sets the scene, quietly exits stage- left,  and lets his team of professionals get on with it, with no further intervention from him.

Dawn raid - now there's something to hope for...

Dont Make Me Laff wrote:I think most of us realised it was a given that the 'elite' would return to Portugal just as the trial reconvenes.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I can't understand why a 'situation/crime' which occurred on foreign soil warranted the input of a police force outside of the jurisdiction in that country - (sorry if I am sounding thick)
but if I were foolish enough to get myself arrested/suspected of a crime whilst on holiday outside the UK can I expect the country of my domicile to intervene and get me off?

Newintown wrote:

Dont Make Me Laff wrote:I think most of us realised it was a given that the 'elite' would return to Portugal just as the trial reconvenes.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I can't understand why a 'situation/crime' which occurred on foreign soil warranted the input of a police force outside of the jurisdiction in that country - (sorry if I am sounding thick)
but if I were foolish enough to get myself arrested/suspected of a crime whilst on holiday outside the UK can I expect the country of my domicile to intervene and get me off?

Don't forget the "Find Madeleine fund", which turned out to be "Assist the family" Fund.  The Ltd Company Fund is operating in the UK and therefore would have to be investigated by the UK police.  There may be many people involved in the "Fund" who live in Portugal/Spain and elsewhere who the UK police will need to contact and interview hence the assistance required from the Portuguese police and other police forces in Europe and from around the World (off shore accounts to be looked at, maybe).

Dont Make Me Laff wrote:

Don't forget the "Find Madeleine fund", which turned out to be "Assist the family" Fund.  The Ltd Company Fund is operating in the UK and therefore would have to be investigated by the UK police.  There may be many people involved in the "Fund" who live in Portugal/Spain and elsewhere who the UK police will need to contact and interview hence the assistance required from the Portuguese police and other police forces in Europe and from around the World (off shore accounts to be looked at, maybe).

Realist wrote:A the end of the day, there can only be two possible conclusions that can be derived for the raison detre of Operation Grange, the first being that the Met. Police are privy to information/evidence that we are unaware of which leads them to the conclusion that some kind of Kidnapping by a third party transpired, or it is a blatant cover up operation to exonerate the McCanns from any culpability in the disappearance of their daughter, Madeleine.

WMD wrote:

Realist wrote:A the end of the day, there can only be two possible conclusions that can be derived for the raison detre of Operation Grange, the first being that the Met. Police are privy to information/evidence that we are unaware of which leads them to the conclusion that some kind of Kidnapping by a third party transpired, or it is a blatant cover up operation to exonerate the McCanns from any culpability in the disappearance of their daughter, Madeleine.

Still doesn't explain the dog alerts in the apartment,they alerted to something to which they were trained to do.That something is a cadaver alert and blood alerts.

On the Reliability of Cadaver dogs

Dogs trained to detect the smell of human cadaverine are now routinely used throughout the world.  We examine some of the leading cases.

From the outset it is important to note that a dog cannot give “evidence“ in a criminal trial. In most jurisdictions evidence has to be subject to examination and cross examination by learned counsel, and this is clearly impossible.  On many occasions the alert by the dog will result in the discovery of remains and it will be that which becomes the primary evidence. The fact that the dog indicated where to look becomes a side issue, of no particular legal importance.

Here we look at some occasions when the dog alerts, but no significant physical evidence can be found at the time.   The best that can be achieved in these circumstances is that the handler of the animal gives evidence of the dog’s reactions, often with video confirmation, and can then be cross examined on his interpretation of the animal’s behaviour.

(I shall refer to the cases by the name of the deceased or missing person, rather than by the Trial reference, because of the ways in which these differ across jurisdictions)

1 The case with a legal significance may not yet have been fully appreciated, is that of Jeanette Zapata. in Dane Country, USA.   In 1976 she served her husband Eugene Zapata with divorce papers.  She went missing shortly afterwards.  29 years later dogs alerted in the basement of the family home, and in several other places where the family had lived over the intervening time.   At trial his lawyer persuaded the judge that the dog’s finding could not be admitted, since the places in which they had alerted indicated that he had carried the body round to everywhere he had lived, and it was suggested that this was preposterous.   The jury failed to reach a verdict.    Before his retrial however, he confessed, and crucially confirmed that he had in fact transported the body round before disposing of it.    The dogs had been absolutely accurate.   No body has been found.  

2 The recent case of  Bianca Jones, a 2 year old girl murdered by her father D’Andre Lane in Detroit USA, with the added details of an alleged abduction, was an occasion when Mr Martin Grime, a British retired police officer, was working for the FBI.  His evidence of the alerts by his dog was admitted to show that Bianca was dead whilst in the back of the car, and not taken by armed men as was being alleged. Lane was convicted, though no body has been found.

3 The trial of Adrian Prout, in 2010, for the murder of Kate Prout, his wife, in the UK, was notable again for a verdict of guilty, despite no body having been found. Dogs had indicted the presence of a body in the house, but nothing had been found.  Some time after his conviction Prout confessed, and indicted the location of the body, confirming that the dogs had been absolutely accurate in their findings.

4 In the murder of Susan Pilley in Edinburgh, by her colleague David Gilroy, in 2010, the court heard that the dogs had alerted in the office basement garage and in two areas of the boot of Gilroy’s car, even though this had been cleaned recently with fluid or air freshener.  The defence failed to convince the jury that the absence of physical evidence entitled his client to acquittal.  He was convicted.   No body has been found.

5 Cori Baker from Oklahoma was murdered by her sister’s boyfriend Marquis Bulloch, in 2007. He changed his story several times whilst being investigated, and the dogs, partly funded by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, were brought into search a large area after a skull had been found.  They alerted in several places.  No other physical evidence was discovered.  He was convicted

6 The case of  Guadeloupe Montano from Kane County, USA, is now complete. It is alleged that she was murdered by her husband Aurelio Montano in 1990.  It may be the first time that the dog’s alerts have been used as evidence in that State.  They indicate that the body lay in one position and was then moved to another. The trial took place in October 2013.   No body has been found.   He was convicted

7 The case of Amir Jennings, allegedly killed by her mother Zinah Jennings in 2011, involves a mother who reported her son missing.   Dogs searched the house and the car, and human blood was then found. No body has been found. Zinah Jennings was convicted on a charge of unlawful conduct toward a child, and sentenced to 10 years

8 The trial of Albert Fine, the partner of Catherine Hoholski, from Lorain USA, is  pending.  In this case the body was found within 60 seconds of the dog being deployed, and it was then used to identify other locations relevant to the prosecution case.  He faces the death penalty if convicted.

9 The alleged abduction of Isabel Mercedes Celis has been called into question by the findings of two dogs, one a cadaver dog, in the family home.  The findings were said to be “significant”,  the house is being treated as a crime scene and the matter is still under investigation.   No body has been found.

10 The disappearance of 6 year old Etan Patz in New York 33 years ago, has already shown the almost unbelievable feats of which cadaver dogs are capable. In this case pads of absorbent material were left for a time on the concrete floor of the basement and then presented to the dogs for testing.  As a result the concrete floor  was then ripped up. The handler Englebert said.  "We as human beings never lose our scent. If [a body] had been there for a while, that scent would still be there," she said, indicating that even if investigators do not find remains in the basement, it is possible human remains may have once been there before being moved.”  The trial of Pedro Hernandez, who has admitted kidnapping and murder, is pending.  No body has been found.

11 The parents of Lisa Irwin, from Kansas City, also allege that she must have been abducted in the middle of the night.  The mother told Police she did not search, “because she was afraid of what she might find”.    Disturbed earth was found behind the house, and the dog alerted in the parent’s bedroom.  As a result a full search warrant was granted, and the police say they want to talk to the parents Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, one to one.

12 The cold case of 14 year old Melanie Melanson, from Massachusetts USA, who disappeared 20 years ago, has been given fresh impetus through the findings of a cadaver dog which alerted in an area targeted following a tip off to Police.

13 Another mother, Shakara Dickens, of Memphis USA, reported in 2010 that she had given up her daughter Lauryn Dickens for adoption, but the various stories turned out to be false. A dog identified cadaver odour in the house and in the boot of the car, and despite defence arguments, she was found guilty of Murder.  No body has been found.

14 The infamous case of Caylee Anthony, whose mother Casey Anthony was accused of murdering her in Orlando USA, in 2011, was also notable in that the evidence of the cadaver dog handler was admitted, even though the body was found later at a different location.  The dog alerted in the boot of the car, and it was alleged that the mother had then dumped the body.  The evidence was highly detailed, with full description of the system of ‘final trained alert’ by the dog showing an exact position, distinguished from a more general interest.   In the event  Anthony was not found guilty of the murder, but was convicted of several lesser offences.  There are moves to have the case reopened at Federal level.

15 In the UK, the case of Kirsi Gifford-Hull, in Winchester in 2005, is of interest since although the body was discovered by a man walking a dog, and the offender Mike Gifford-Hull had made a public appeal at a press conference for his wife to return, cadaver dogs had already alerted some weeks earlier in the house and in his car during the initial search for a “missing person”.   After the trial he told officers that when he saw the dogs alerting in the car he had contemplated making a full admission.  He was convicted.    After the trial  Judge Guy Boney QC ”. . .added that the police inquiry was so superior it could be matched with that of any other police force in the world.”

Praiaaa wrote:

Dont Make Me Laff wrote:

Don't forget the "Find Madeleine fund", which turned out to be "Assist the family" Fund.  The Ltd Company Fund is operating in the UK and therefore would have to be investigated by the UK police.  There may be many people involved in the "Fund" who live in Portugal/Spain and elsewhere who the UK police will need to contact and interview hence the assistance required from the Portuguese police and other police forces in Europe and from around the World (off shore accounts to be looked at, maybe).

Good post. I have often thought that if TM knew how M disappeared, and that she  was dead, it would be the 'Al Capone' method that would need to be employed to put them behind bars. IMO

Praiaaa wrote:

Dont Make Me Laff wrote:

Don't forget the "Find Madeleine fund", which turned out to be "Assist the family" Fund.  The Ltd Company Fund is operating in the UK and therefore would have to be investigated by the UK police.  There may be many people involved in the "Fund" who live in Portugal/Spain and elsewhere who the UK police will need to contact and interview hence the assistance required from the Portuguese police and other police forces in Europe and from around the World (off shore accounts to be looked at, maybe).

Good post. I have often thought that if TM knew how M disappeared, and that she  was dead, it would be the 'Al Capone' method that would need to be employed to put them behind bars. IMO