Re: Daily Mirror front page 13/01/2014

by debs 13.01.14 17:37

candyfloss wrote:This is the Met Police press release..............

met.police.uk/pressbureau/Bur10/page05.htm

so the Met aren't saying much at all then

"We can confirm that a second International Letter of Request (ILOR) has been sent to the Portuguese authorities by the Crown Prosecution Services this week (week commencing 6 January) in connection with Operation Grange"

that's it?

by Aoife 13.01.14 17:41

tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
marconi wrote:If the authorities are not commenting the details of the letter, how come that the media know them?
I don't believe in the existence of those 3 suspects.

That'll be that infamous "source close to the McCanns".
Or 'off the record' briefing by the MET or CPS- they may want to shake things up and make it difficult for th Portuguese to say no. If it were just a bland request to investigate, then it would not be newsworthy, but an OTR briefing that they want to interview substantive suspects puts the Portuguese in an awkward position if they say 'no.'
Perhaps it has nothing to do with portuguese
We know from reliable sources that a new letter has been sent to the Portuguese in the last few days; that has to do with the Portuguese.

so it has been said about the letter being sent, but do we know if this really true.

I am rather willing to accept that if the BBC and the Guardian report that they have had it confirmed by the CPS and/or MET, that the letter has been sent. If we are to doubt news reported clearly and with sources on the BBC and from the Guardian, then there is obviously nothing substantive to discuss and we may as well give up. There comes a point where a certain amount of credence needs to be given to non-denied reports in respected media.

by Guest 13.01.14 17:41

I thought K&M's fb page said they weren't going to comment on police investigations so don't ask for statements until ........
or did I misunderstand ?

by Guest 13.01.14 17:43

debs wrote:
candyfloss wrote:This is the Met Police press release..............

met.police.uk/pressbureau/Bur10/page05.htm
so the Met aren't saying much at all then

"We can confirm that a second International Letter of Request (ILOR) has been sent to the Portuguese authorities by the Crown Prosecution Services this week (week commencing 6 January) in connection with Operation Grange"

that's it?

No, the rest is just spin as usual spin

The Guardian quoting parents spokesman.

by Cristobell 13.01.14 17:44

beijos wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/13/madeleine-mccann-british-police-arrests-portugal

However, the Mirror said officers were preparing to fly to the Algarve on Sunday night to speak to three burglars who carried out raids in the Portuguese resort where Madeleine, then three years old, vanished on 3 May 2007.

There are currently no Sunday night flights to Faro. The last one leaves the UK about 4pm and arrives at 7pm. The timetable can be downloaded at http://www.ana.pt

Portuguese police, who once falsely treated the parents as suspects,reopened their investigation in October last year, more than three years after it was shelved. Their investigation is running in parallel with the Scotland Yard inquiry but the Met police commissioner has called for the two forces to join together as one team.

Does this mean The McCanns are no longer regarded as suspects by the Portuguese police?

Hi Beijos and welcome to the forum.

No, what you see here is known as 'Clarencespeak' - he has a way of making things sound official when they are nothing of the sort! smilie

by noddy100 13.01.14 17:45

Would SY have to ask Portugal for permission if they wanted to bring the McCanns in to question as the crime was committed there?
If they are planning to fly there Sunday then they must know that the burglars will be findable (is that a word?)

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.01.14 17:45

candyfloss wrote:
No, the rest is just spin as usual The Guardian quoting parents spokesman.

And as far as the '3 burglars' side of the story goes, both the BBC and The Guardian explicitly quote The Mirror as source.

by Aoife 13.01.14 17:45

ultimaThule wrote:
Aoife wrote:
Portia wrote:
Aoife wrote:
Cristobell wrote:Perhaps the 3, are witnesses who contacted SY or the PJ following the televised reconstructions. People who may have identified 'Smithman'?

Would the MET need permission to discuss the case with such willing interviewees?

Yes

It's a matter of sovereignty
In what way? If they are exerting no police powers but merely gathering information from willing participants, would they really need permission from the Government? I can think of many cases where such preliminary enquiries have been done informally without letters of authorisation.
Can you please name some of those 'many cases' so that we can make comparisons, Aoife?

Virtually any international finance case starts out with informal work by the authorities that does not require agreement from the sovereign authorities. If a person resident in, say Portugal, writes to the Financial Regulator in the UK about an issue, there is no need to seek permission to meet with a willing citizen of another country. Only when police powers are to be invoked does sovereignty come into it.

by Aoife 13.01.14 17:49

candyfloss wrote:
debs wrote:
candyfloss wrote:This is the Met Police press release..............

met.police.uk/pressbureau/Bur10/page05.htm
so the Met aren't saying much at all then

"We can confirm that a second International Letter of Request (ILOR) has been sent to the Portuguese authorities by the Crown Prosecution Services this week (week commencing 6 January) in connection with Operation Grange"

that's it?

No, the rest is just spin as usual The Guardian quoting parents spokesman.

The Guardian quoted the Parents' spokesman over the contents. I am talking about whether a letter has been sent; the Guardian says "Scotland Yard confirmed that it had sent an international letter of request to the Portuguese authorities but would not elaborate on its contents."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/13/madeleine-mccann-british-police-arrests-portugal

Two separate issues- I agree we do not know what was in the letter, but I think we must accept that a second letter requesting assistance was sent last week.

by Aoife 13.01.14 17:51

noddy100 wrote:Would SY have to ask Portugal for permission if they wanted to bring the McCanns in to question as the crime was committed there?
If they are planning to fly there Sunday then they must know that the burglars will be findable (is that a word?)

No, but they would have to comply with PACE and have sufficient reason to question them about a crime within English Jurisdiction.

by mysterion 13.01.14 17:54

Can`t figure out how TM know about SY activity unless they are in the loop or they have FOI request issued everyday. If I was AR, they would be driving me mad.

by Guest 13.01.14 17:55

Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
marconi wrote:If the authorities are not commenting the details of the letter, how come that the media know them?
I don't believe in the existence of those 3 suspects.

That'll be that infamous "source close to the McCanns".
Or 'off the record' briefing by the MET or CPS- they may want to shake things up and make it difficult for th Portuguese to say no. If it were just a bland request to investigate, then it would not be newsworthy, but an OTR briefing that they want to interview substantive suspects puts the Portuguese in an awkward position if they say 'no.'
Perhaps it has nothing to do with portuguese
We know from reliable sources that a new letter has been sent to the Portuguese in the last few days; that has to do with the Portuguese.

so it has been said about the letter being sent, but do we know if this really true.
I am rather willing to accept that if the BBC and the Guardian report that they have had it confirmed by the CPS and/or MET, that the letter has been sent. If we are to doubt news reported clearly and with sources on the BBC and from the Guardian, then there is obviously nothing substantive to discuss and we may as well give up. There comes a point where a certain amount of credence needs to be given to non-denied reports in respected media.

I am sure people can make their own minds up to whom they decide to give credence.
Aoife, you seem to have a lot of faith in the Beeb and MSM.

by Guest 13.01.14 17:55

aoife,somebody already posted a link re rog letter from met page.

by Cristobell 13.01.14 17:55

Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
marconi wrote:If the authorities are not commenting the details of the letter, how come that the media know them?
I don't believe in the existence of those 3 suspects.

That'll be that infamous "source close to the McCanns".
Or 'off the record' briefing by the MET or CPS- they may want to shake things up and make it difficult for th Portuguese to say no. If it were just a bland request to investigate, then it would not be newsworthy, but an OTR briefing that they want to interview substantive suspects puts the Portuguese in an awkward position if they say 'no.'
Perhaps it has nothing to do with portuguese
We know from reliable sources that a new letter has been sent to the Portuguese in the last few days; that has to do with the Portuguese.

so it has been said about the letter being sent, but do we know if this really true.
I am rather willing to accept that if the BBC and the Guardian report that they have had it confirmed by the CPS and/or MET, that the letter has been sent. If we are to doubt news reported clearly and with sources on the BBC and from the Guardian, then there is obviously nothing substantive to discuss and we may as well give up. There comes a point where a certain amount of credence needs to be given to non-denied reports in respected media.

This case certainly reveals the murky underbelly of the media Aoife and I agree it is disheartening. It is lazy journalism, they don't even seem to have checked that it makes sense, they have gone, probably verbatim, with the press handout given to them by Clarence.

by Guest 13.01.14 17:59

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
My overly optimistic mind is keeping hold of the possibility that SY have just gone to Portugal to interview these people, not arrest them, and that this information might lead to the arrest of certain parties who are going nowhere, seemingly more concerned with orchestrating the current media onslaught.

But that's just me :)

***
No, no, you're not alone .... smilie

by tiny 13.01.14 18:00

mysterion wrote:Can`t figure out how TM know about SY activity unless they are in the loop or they have FOI request issued everyday. If I was AR, they would be driving me mad.

Best buddies perhaps

by bobby18 13.01.14 18:05

sallypelt wrote:
Bellisa wrote:So fed up reading all these ridiculous stories.

It is obvious to the dogs on the street who is to blame.
If SY or the PJ go down an alternative route then our only hope is that one day the truth will be revealed.

Families involved have tarnished their family name for many years to come and the internet will have an instant record forever.
I am feeling hopeful though until I hear something OFFICIAL to say otherwise.

I am still very optimistic that SY and the Portuguese police are going for a watertight case. It can't be any other way, with the big guns protecting the McCann's and Co.

Take comfort in is quote:

...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle,

Amongst the clamour to discredit the possible PJ/SY 'burglar' strategy and where it may finally end, I VERY much find comfort in that quote.

Thank you for that.

by russiandoll 13.01.14 18:06

I politely suggest that Aoife re -reads the Mirror and then the Guardian and joins the dots to see who the source clearly is.

His name begins with C and ends with e. Think Pink Aoife. big grin

by ultimaThule 13.01.14 18:06

Aoife wrote:
noddy100 wrote:Would SY have to ask Portugal for permission if they wanted to bring the McCanns in to question as the crime was committed there?
If they are planning to fly there Sunday then they must know that the burglars will be findable (is that a word?)
No, but they would have to comply with PACE and have sufficient reason to question them about a crime within English Jurisdiction.

There is no bar to the McCanns being questioned by the Met about the disappearance of their daughter which occurred outside the jurisdiction of the courts of England/Wales.

By way of a PS while I still have time to 'edit': given the scale of the initial 'review' which has been subsequently upgraded to an 'investigation' into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I would consider it highly unlikely that the McCanns, together with other British nationals known to have been present in Luz on the night in question, were not asked by Met police officers to make statements early in the proceedings.

by Guest 13.01.14 18:13

sallypelt just spotted your quote.
Lets hope so!

by bobby18 13.01.14 18:14

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:
Al this "preparing to make arrests" doesn't sound right at all. You can either arrest someone or you can't. Why would anyone be leaking such a story? Just sounds silly.

"yes, we're preparing to arrest you next Wednesday. Can you make sure you're in anytime between 12-4pm? Just waiting for some new handcuffs to arrive from eBay, and I've got to sharpen my pencil. By the way, what's the parking like where you live?"

My overly optimistic mind is keeping hold of the possibility that SY have just gone to Portugal to interview these people, not arrest them, and that this information might lead to the arrest of certain parties who are going nowhere, seemingly more concerned with orchestrating the current media onslaught.

But that's just me :)

You are not being overly optimistic, IMO. It is completely feasible and I still have not seen any information to convince to the contrary to this point.

Logically, it makes sense.

by Aoife 13.01.14 18:25

dantezebu wrote:
Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
marconi wrote:If the authorities are not commenting the details of the letter, how come that the media know them?
I don't believe in the existence of those 3 suspects.

That'll be that infamous "source close to the McCanns".
Or 'off the record' briefing by the MET or CPS- they may want to shake things up and make it difficult for th Portuguese to say no. If it were just a bland request to investigate, then it would not be newsworthy, but an OTR briefing that they want to interview substantive suspects puts the Portuguese in an awkward position if they say 'no.'
Perhaps it has nothing to do with portuguese
We know from reliable sources that a new letter has been sent to the Portuguese in the last few days; that has to do with the Portuguese.

so it has been said about the letter being sent, but do we know if this really true.
I am rather willing to accept that if the BBC and the Guardian report that they have had it confirmed by the CPS and/or MET, that the letter has been sent. If we are to doubt news reported clearly and with sources on the BBC and from the Guardian, then there is obviously nothing substantive to discuss and we may as well give up. There comes a point where a certain amount of credence needs to be given to non-denied reports in respected media.

I am sure people can make their own minds up to whom they decide to give credence.
Aoife, you seem to have a lot of faith in the Beeb and MSM.

I have faith in organisations that have journalistic standards and the need to maintain their image. This includes broadsheets and broadcast media which are held and hold themselves to higher standards than tabloids and middle market press. I also tend to believe things when they are clearly stated in such publications with clear referencing to a source and where that source does not deny it. I tend to believe such matters even when they are at variance with my own beliefs or desires.

by russiandoll 13.01.14 18:26

quite a few likes in the Mail for the incompetent PJ plod comments, sadly.

Many though not buying the burglar tale.

I can think of some 3somes I would like to see questioned... none of them burglars

to start, Payne, Payne and Webster.

by Aoife 13.01.14 18:28

Cristobell wrote:
Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
tiny wrote:
Aoife wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
marconi wrote:If the authorities are not commenting the details of the letter, how come that the media know them?
I don't believe in the existence of those 3 suspects.

That'll be that infamous "source close to the McCanns".
Or 'off the record' briefing by the MET or CPS- they may want to shake things up and make it difficult for th Portuguese to say no. If it were just a bland request to investigate, then it would not be newsworthy, but an OTR briefing that they want to interview substantive suspects puts the Portuguese in an awkward position if they say 'no.'
Perhaps it has nothing to do with portuguese
We know from reliable sources that a new letter has been sent to the Portuguese in the last few days; that has to do with the Portuguese.

so it has been said about the letter being sent, but do we know if this really true.
I am rather willing to accept that if the BBC and the Guardian report that they have had it confirmed by the CPS and/or MET, that the letter has been sent. If we are to doubt news reported clearly and with sources on the BBC and from the Guardian, then there is obviously nothing substantive to discuss and we may as well give up. There comes a point where a certain amount of credence needs to be given to non-denied reports in respected media.

This case certainly reveals the murky underbelly of the media Aoife and I agree it is disheartening. It is lazy journalism, they don't even seem to have checked that it makes sense, they have gone, probably verbatim, with the press handout given to them by Clarence.

Wo have? Both the Guardian and the BBC state in plain clear English that they have information (regarding the existence of a new letter requesting assistance) from the CPS/MET. Neither the CPS nor the MET has denied this. I take that as confirmation that they have received such information.

by noddy100 13.01.14 18:28

russiandoll wrote:quite a few likes in the Mail for the incompetent PJ plod comments, sadly.

Many though not buying the burglar tale.

I can think of some 3somes I would like to see questioned... none of them burglars

to start, Payne, Payne and Webster.

Yes yes and yes

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