Re: Missing Tia Sharp

by **tigger** 13.08.12 13:02

It's going to be a Ian Huntley defence: it was an accident, because of his previous convictions he'd stand no chance so he more or less had to do what he did. It was writ large all over his face - feeling terribly sorry for himself.
Ian Huntley actually said to the press that he'd probably been the last person to see them!
Being the last person to have seen a missing person is pretty damning as statistics show.Which reminds me that although MO was detailed to check on the children, he was quite specific about not seeing them, he listened, there was silence.
The last person to see that child especially paused for a bit to consider how beautiful she was, lying in the 'recovery position'. Why that detail one wonders.
So here we have three examples of the people who last saw a missing person or persons.

by EJW 13.08.12 13:03

Newintown wrote:
EJW wrote:Jule, it's possible but it has been stated that the postmortem that began on Saturday had been stopped and will recommence in the next few days. Details won't be be released to the public as yet as to the findings of the postmortem anyway. Any we have already been given some quite graphic details, in that poor Tia was found wrapped in a black sheet, within a black bin bag and that she had beem smothered, according to the DM.

Seeing that Tia could have died on the Thursday, the day she met Hazell in a shop, her body could have deteriorated too far for a formal identification, so her dental records have been applied for. Only guessing of course. What a terrible ending for a young girl, being bundled into a loft as though she is just a bag of trash.

I had thought that myself, given the very warm weather we have had. It's absolutely dreadful, a tragic, tragic ending for this young girl.

by Julchen 13.08.12 13:08

[quote][the postmortem that began on Saturday had been stopped and will recommence in the next few days/quote]

The way I read it was that they sort of had to stop because it was "too late in the day",having finished with the first lot of samples.
I have done postmortems on animals (I worked as a vet,BTW) where the bodies where in quite a bit of a state. We hurried to get the important tissues,samples etc. and then sent them off to laboratories.
In 2003 we had a case of suspected bird flue, where we had to hold back information since special units had to be ordered to cull huge amounts of birds in case the tests proved positive(which they did).

Could it not be the case that they may have found enough evidence to wait for the results then go on in case this is necessary?
In cases of valuable animals being poisoned we used to do the best-known 50-100 possibilities, wait for the results, then dig deeper.

Just a suggestion.

Jule

by Newintown 13.08.12 13:28

I forgot to add to my last comment that it just goes to show how cold and callous people can be, even their own close relatives.

Also what an earth were these people thinking about moving her body around, if that is what was done. How were they expecting to dispose of it, or were they waiting for all the news interest etc to go away and they would move her body out of the house in darkness. Did they think that because the police had searched the house they thought that was it, they'd got away with it for now and brought her body back into the grandmother's house for later disposal not realising the police would come back again for another search. If she died on the Thursday or Friday why didn't they move her body out of the house then before the alarm was raised, unless they had other motives i.e. setting up a fund within the next week or two.

I notice the social services have kept very quiet on this, wasn't Tia supposed to have been known by them? I wonder why. If they have messed up and she slipped through their net, i.e. she wasn't been checked on regularly, then again another poor young child has been very let down by the people who were supposed to be protecting them.

People have mentioned in previous posts that Tia's mother was distraught, I know she said "Baby, why wasn't I there when this happened", well why wasn't she? What was she doing allowing her 12 year old daughter to stay under the same roof of a convicted drug dealer and someone who was arrested for carrying a machete? The mind boggles.

Sorry rant over!

by **Tony Bennett** 13.08.12 13:29

tigger wrote:Which reminds me that although MO was detailed to check on the children,

er, no. According to IIRC Rachael Oldfiled or Fiona Payne, MO said to Kate: "I'll check on Maddie for you". Big slip up!

he was quite specific about not seeing them, he listened, there was silence.

Not to mention changing his story about that visit.

by EJW 13.08.12 13:45

Newintown wrote:I forgot to add to my last comment that it just goes to show how cold and callous people can be, even their own close relatives.

Also what an earth were these people thinking about moving her body around, if that is what was done. How were they expecting to dispose of it, or were they waiting for all the news interest etc to go away and they would move her body out of the house in darkness. Did they think that because the police had searched the house they thought that was it, they'd got away with it for now and brought her body back into the grandmother's house for later disposal not realising the police would come back again for another search. If she died on the Thursday or Friday why didn't they move her body out of the house then before the alarm was raised, unless they had other motives i.e. setting up a fund within the next week or two.

I notice the social services have kept very quiet on this, wasn't Tia supposed to have been known by them? I wonder why. If they have messed up and she slipped through their net, i.e. she wasn't been checked on regularly, then again another poor young child has been very let down by the people who were supposed to be protecting them.

People have mentioned in previous posts that Tia's mother was distraught, I know she said "Baby, why wasn't I there when this happened", well why wasn't she? What was she doing allowing her 12 year old daughter to stay under the same roof of a convicted drug dealer and someone who was arrested for carrying a machete? The mind boggles.

Sorry rant over!

This has been puzzling me, if Tia had died on the Thursday/Friday why wasn't her body removed from the house prior to her being reported missing, it doesn't make sense as it would be obvious that the police would search the house, (it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that one out) particularly once her step grandfather's prior offences were known.

I would think he was the police's main suspect from the very beginning, once it became apparent that Tia had not simply ran away, and surely the step grandfather would know, given his previous, that he would be looked at closely.

The mind does indeed boggle, but the mother also went out with Hazell so she can't have been that concerned can she? I also read last night although I can't remember which online news paper it was, that a review had begun into social services and the police's prior contacts with Tia and her family.

by **tigger** 13.08.12 13:47

She was probably killed on Thursday, Friday afternoon, having hidden her body in the loft with the help of the neighbour? he just tells the grandma Tia's not come home. She initially reacts normally by reporting it.
Then, the house and area being inundated with police and press, there's no way out and Hazell has to tell her. For some weird reason this woman decides to help him.
Why would she otherwise have alerted the police? I think she's an accessory after the fact, helping to hide the body. Otherwise they would have had plenty of time to secrete the body at night in a far away location. This looks like Hazell was waiting for Mummy to put it all right.

Huntley's girlfriend did the same sort of thing. What the h..... is wrong with these women?

by aiyoyo 13.08.12 14:00

tigger wrote:It's going to be a Ian Huntley defence: it was an accident, because of his previous convictions he'd stand no chance so he more or less had to do what he did. It was writ large all over his face - feeling terribly sorry for himself.
Ian Huntley actually said to the press that he'd probably been the last person to see them!
Being the last person to have seen a missing person is pretty damning as statistics show.Which reminds me that although MO was detailed to check on the children, he was quite specific about not seeing them, he listened, there was silence.
The last person to see that child especially paused for a bit to consider how beautiful she was, lying in the 'recovery position'. Why that detail one wonders.
So here we have three examples of the people who last saw a missing person or persons.

Last person to see the victim unfailingly will come up with an imaginary last conversation with the victim.
This is true of SH as well. Reportedly he said he was in no way involved that he loved Tia to bits as if his own daughter he also fabricated an exchange of convo which he said took place before she left for the shop. He even made it a point to say he asked her to come home before 6.pm.

All perpetrators initial lies are all the same relating to last imaginary interaction with the victim.
The similarities in this case and the other one is startling that maybe another thread would be better to deal with it if people so wished.

by Cristobell 13.08.12 14:03

tigger wrote:It's going to be a Ian Huntley defence: it was an accident, because of his previous convictions he'd stand no chance so he more or less had to do what he did. It was writ large all over his face - feeling terribly sorry for himself.
Ian Huntley actually said to the press that he'd probably been the last person to see them!
Being the last person to have seen a missing person is pretty damning as statistics show.Which reminds me that although MO was detailed to check on the children, he was quite specific about not seeing them, he listened, there was silence.
The last person to see that child especially paused for a bit to consider how beautiful she was, lying in the 'recovery position'. Why that detail one wonders.
So here we have three examples of the people who last saw a missing person or persons.

I think you are right Tigger, in that he will go for a similar defence to Huntley. He had that same fake 'look a a what a caring person I am' expression on his face.

by Newintown 13.08.12 14:05

tigger wrote:She was probably killed on Thursday, Friday afternoon, having hidden her body in the loft with the help of the neighbour? he just tells the grandma Tia's not come home. She initially reacts normally by reporting it.
Then, the house and area being inundated with police and press, there's no way out and Hazell has to tell her. For some weird reason this woman decides to help him.
Why would she otherwise have alerted the police? I think she's an accessory after the fact, helping to hide the body. Otherwise they would have had plenty of time to secrete the body at night in a far away location. This looks like Hazell was waiting for Mummy to put it all right.

Huntley's girlfriend did the same sort of thing. What the h..... is wrong with these women?

That's a very good post, Tigger. You have a very astute mind.

EJW said at 1.45 p.m.

"The mind does indeed boggle, but the mother also went out with Hazell so she can't have been that concerned can she? I also read last night although I can't remember which online news paper it was, that a review had begun into social services and the police's prior contacts with Tia and her family."

Yes, of course, I'd forgotten that Tia's mother also went out with Hazell, which makes it even worse, she must have known his background. It seems unbelievable that poor Tia was pushed between pillar and post, with all these strange people coming and going into her family, father, step father, mother/grandmother's partners and ex partners, the poor kid probably didn't know whether she was coming or going. She must have been very insecure and scared I would have thought. Looking at the state of Hazell he would frighten the life out of me having to live with him (me being a very mature adult), yet alone a 12 year old girl.

by Nina 13.08.12 14:08

Newintown wrote:
tigger wrote:She was probably killed on Thursday, Friday afternoon, having hidden her body in the loft with the help of the neighbour? he just tells the grandma Tia's not come home. She initially reacts normally by reporting it.
Then, the house and area being inundated with police and press, there's no way out and Hazell has to tell her. For some weird reason this woman decides to help him.
Why would she otherwise have alerted the police? I think she's an accessory after the fact, helping to hide the body. Otherwise they would have had plenty of time to secrete the body at night in a far away location. This looks like Hazell was waiting for Mummy to put it all right.

Huntley's girlfriend did the same sort of thing. What the h..... is wrong with these women?

That's a very good post, Tigger. You have a very astute mind.

EJW said at 1.45 p.m.

"The mind does indeed boggle, but the mother also went out with Hazell so she can't have been that concerned can she? I also read last night although I can't remember which online news paper it was, that a review had begun into social services and the police's prior contacts with Tia and her family."

Yes, of course, I'd forgotten that Tia's mother also went out with Hazell, which makes it even worse, she must have known his background. It seems unbelievable that poor Tia was pushed between pillar and post, with all these strange people coming and going into her family, father, step father, mother/grandmother's partners and ex partners, the poor kid probably didn't know whether she was coming or going. She must have been very insecure and scared I would have thought. Looking at the state of Hazell he would frighten the life out of me having to live with him (me being a very mature adult), yet alone a 12 year old girl.

Or, she may not have been frightened at all as these partners/fathers/step fathers/step grandads were her life, what she was used to. Her norm.

by Newintown 13.08.12 14:16

Nina wrote:
Newintown wrote:
tigger wrote:She was probably killed on Thursday, Friday afternoon, having hidden her body in the loft with the help of the neighbour? he just tells the grandma Tia's not come home. She initially reacts normally by reporting it.
Then, the house and area being inundated with police and press, there's no way out and Hazell has to tell her. For some weird reason this woman decides to help him.
Why would she otherwise have alerted the police? I think she's an accessory after the fact, helping to hide the body. Otherwise they would have had plenty of time to secrete the body at night in a far away location. This looks like Hazell was waiting for Mummy to put it all right.

Huntley's girlfriend did the same sort of thing. What the h..... is wrong with these women?

That's a very good post, Tigger. You have a very astute mind.

EJW said at 1.45 p.m.

"The mind does indeed boggle, but the mother also went out with Hazell so she can't have been that concerned can she? I also read last night although I can't remember which online news paper it was, that a review had begun into social services and the police's prior contacts with Tia and her family."

Yes, of course, I'd forgotten that Tia's mother also went out with Hazell, which makes it even worse, she must have known his background. It seems unbelievable that poor Tia was pushed between pillar and post, with all these strange people coming and going into her family, father, step father, mother/grandmother's partners and ex partners, the poor kid probably didn't know whether she was coming or going. She must have been very insecure and scared I would have thought. Looking at the state of Hazell he would frighten the life out of me having to live with him (me being a very mature adult), yet alone a 12 year old girl.

Or, she may not have been frightened at all as these partners/fathers/step fathers/step grandads were her life, what she was used to. Her norm.

She may have not had any choice though, if her Mother didn't want her at weekends for some reason and she was dumped on the grandmother and her partner. Even though the Mother was seen to be visibly upset infront of the cameras it doesn't mean that she was. I think we've seen playacting infront of the cameras may times before, although I'm not suggesting anything, but you never know. You may be right though, if Tia was brought up in that environment she wouldn't have known any different but why were social services dealing with her. There must have been some problem within the family.

by tuom 13.08.12 14:23

Nina wrote:
Newintown wrote:
tigger wrote:She was probably killed on Thursday, Friday afternoon, having hidden her body in the loft with the help of the neighbour? he just tells the grandma Tia's not come home. She initially reacts normally by reporting it.
Then, the house and area being inundated with police and press, there's no way out and Hazell has to tell her. For some weird reason this woman decides to help him.
Why would she otherwise have alerted the police? I think she's an accessory after the fact, helping to hide the body. Otherwise they would have had plenty of time to secrete the body at night in a far away location. This looks like Hazell was waiting for Mummy to put it all right.

Huntley's girlfriend did the same sort of thing. What the h..... is wrong with these women?

That's a very good post, Tigger. You have a very astute mind.

EJW said at 1.45 p.m.

"The mind does indeed boggle, but the mother also went out with Hazell so she can't have been that concerned can she? I also read last night although I can't remember which online news paper it was, that a review had begun into social services and the police's prior contacts with Tia and her family."

Yes, of course, I'd forgotten that Tia's mother also went out with Hazell, which makes it even worse, she must have known his background. It seems unbelievable that poor Tia was pushed between pillar and post, with all these strange people coming and going into her family, father, step father, mother/grandmother's partners and ex partners, the poor kid probably didn't know whether she was coming or going. She must have been very insecure and scared I would have thought. Looking at the state of Hazell he would frighten the life out of me having to live with him (me being a very mature adult), yet alone a 12 year old girl.

Or, she may not have been frightened at all as these partners/fathers/step fathers/step grandads were her life, what she was used to. Her norm.

The above sentiments I agree with fully , firstly I would like to say Tia RIP xx , what a terrible outcome.

In her short twelve years what a lot she had to cope with , starting out life with her Mom and Dad , then that changes and she gets a stepdad , then he changes to her stepgrandad and Tia gets another stepdad , then two step siblings , I feel enough has been said , it is such a sad case

by aiyoyo 13.08.12 14:24

tigger wrote:She was probably killed on Thursday, Friday afternoon, having hidden her body in the loft with the help of the neighbour? he just tells the grandma Tia's not come home. She initially reacts normally by reporting it.
Then, the house and area being inundated with police and press, there's no way out and Hazell has to tell her. For some weird reason this woman decides to help him.
Why would she otherwise have alerted the police? I think she's an accessory after the fact, helping to hide the body. Otherwise they would have had plenty of time to secrete the body at night in a far away location. This looks like Hazell was waiting for Mummy to put it all right.

Huntley's girlfriend did the same sort of thing. What the h..... is wrong with these women?

What I cannot grasp is how the smell of decomposition escapes the neighbours, and police for that matter who were inside the house at least four or 5 times throughout that week.

The body temperature upon death which decreases progressively to room temperature would then rise against progressively 30 hours after death to room temperature. Given the summer heat which accelerates decomposition smell should have been whiffed from miles off given that she'd been there for a week.

What's perplexing is she was reported to have been found tucked in-between beams in Grandma's loft so how Police managed to miss such a hugh bag of black bin lining package which should have stuck out like sore thumb from white insulation fabrics is mind boggling.
And, if your factor in the smell in a enclosed space in summer heat it is extremely hard to understand why it was missed during earlier search unless it was put there later after it was believed Police had ruled out the loft.
If so, that begs the question where was initial hiding place if there is one?

by aiyoyo 13.08.12 14:36

Newintown wrote:
tigger wrote:She was probably killed on Thursday, Friday afternoon, having hidden her body in the loft with the help of the neighbour? he just tells the grandma Tia's not come home. She initially reacts normally by reporting it.
Then, the house and area being inundated with police and press, there's no way out and Hazell has to tell her. For some weird reason this woman decides to help him.
Why would she otherwise have alerted the police? I think she's an accessory after the fact, helping to hide the body. Otherwise they would have had plenty of time to secrete the body at night in a far away location. This looks like Hazell was waiting for Mummy to put it all right.

Huntley's girlfriend did the same sort of thing. What the h..... is wrong with these women?

That's a very good post, Tigger. You have a very astute mind.

EJW said at 1.45 p.m.

"The mind does indeed boggle, but the mother also went out with Hazell so she can't have been that concerned can she? I also read last night although I can't remember which online news paper it was, that a review had begun into social services and the police's prior contacts with Tia and her family."

Yes, of course, I'd forgotten that Tia's mother also went out with Hazell, which makes it even worse, she must have known his background. It seems unbelievable that poor Tia was pushed between pillar and post, with all these strange people coming and going into her family, father, step father, mother/grandmother's partners and ex partners, the poor kid probably didn't know whether she was coming or going. She must have been very insecure and scared I would have thought. Looking at the state of Hazell he would frighten the life out of me having to live with him (me being a very mature adult), yet alone a 12 year old girl.

Tia was terribly let down by her entire family and I blame her mum primary for her fate because at the end of the day her num is the one with prime responsible for her.

Tia was unfortunately victim of her environment and the social service let her down as well.
Yet the same social service did not take away the twins from a mum who admitted she neglected her three young children every night in a foreign country while she went out to get pissed during adult time. It's all down to social class and money that influence social service responsibility to their fiduciary duties.

by Guest 13.08.12 14:40

aiyoyo wrote:What I cannot grasp is how the smell of decomposition escapes the neighbours, and police for that matter who were inside the house at least four or 5 times throughout that week.

The body temperature upon death which decreases progressively to room temperature would then rise against progressively 30 hours after death to room temperature. Given the summer heat which accelerates decomposition smell should have been whiffed from miles off given that she'd been there for a week.

When I was in the police many moons ago I went to a tower block of flats where an elderly man had hanged himself behind his front door and he'd been there a long time cos he was riddled with maggots. We didn't notice the smell until we opened the letterbox which begged the question why didn't the postman notice the smell and report it? And when the letterbox was opened regularly you'd think the smell would escape and the hallway would be rife, but it wasn't. Maybe the smell doesn't travel that far? It's certainly not a smell I will ever forget. Maybe PeterMac can elaborate on this. I don't know how long it takes for a body to be riddled with maggots.

by Newintown 13.08.12 14:55

admin wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:What I cannot grasp is how the smell of decomposition escapes the neighbours, and police for that matter who were inside the house at least four or 5 times throughout that week.

The body temperature upon death which decreases progressively to room temperature would then rise against progressively 30 hours after death to room temperature. Given the summer heat which accelerates decomposition smell should have been whiffed from miles off given that she'd been there for a week.

When I was in the police many moons ago I went to a tower block of flats where an elderly man had hanged himself behind his front door and he'd been there a long time cos he was riddled with maggots. We didn't notice the smell until we opened the letterbox which begged the question why didn't the postman notice the smell and report it? And when the letterbox was opened regularly you'd think the smell would escape and the hallway would be rife, but it wasn't. Maybe the smell doesn't travel that far? It's certainly not a smell I will ever forget. Maybe PeterMac can elaborate on this. I don't know how long it takes for a body to be riddled with maggots.

We don't really know what day she died on, it could have been over the weekend, or even the Monday or Tuesday. She may have been held against her will over the weekend, I won't go into details as to why, she was then smothered or suffocated by a gag, she may have not died until the Tuesday say. It doesn't bear thinking about, but then again I'm only guessing.

Perhaps the odour only started to occur on the Wednesday if she died on Tuesday, with the hot weather, it would be very, very hot in the loft if her body had been put in the loft after 4 or 5 days of hot weather), the neighbour's loft that is.

by uppatoffee 13.08.12 15:04

According to newspaper reports, Tia's mum and her partner David Niles have been together since Tia was 4, so it is unlikely that she would have ever known, or remembered Stuart Hazell as being a father figure. If Natalie and David have two young boys together, it's not surprising that Tia went to her grans at weekends for a bit of space. I think Nina was right when she said that this was her probably her norm. A lot of people seem to be imposing their own values and beliefs to state how terrible the situation was, but we cannot possibly know whether Tia saw it this way.

In terms of the role of Social Services, they would have most likely carried out section 47 enquiries (Child Protection Enquiries) and a core assessment if they knew that Tia was staying with her Grandmother and Stuart at weekends, in order to assess the risk that he posed to her. His previous convictions would have necessitated this. However this is only likely to have happened if Social Services knew about the convictions and that Tia was resident with them. As far as I know details of convictions are not automatically notified to Social Services. However if Social Services have concerns about someone who has contact with children, then they will request police checks to see if they have previous convictions to help assess the risk and complete their reports. Again, according to newspaper reports, the family were known to Social Services, so it is quite likely that these assessments were done.

by **Tony Bennett** 13.08.12 15:25

uppatoffee wrote: replies by TB in blue:

Obviously you are very familiar with the system, uppatoffee, and your post is very informative, just a few brief comments to add:

According to newspaper reports, Tia's mum and her partner David Niles have been together since Tia was 4, so it is unlikely that she would have ever known, or remembered Stuart Hazell as being a father figure. If Natalie and David have two young boys together, it's not surprising that Tia went to her grans at weekends for a bit of space. I think Nina was right when she said that this was her probably her norm. A lot of people seem to be imposing their own values and beliefs to state how terrible the situation was, but we cannot possibly know whether Tia saw it this way.

In terms of the role of Social Services, they would have most likely carried out section 47 enquiries (Child Protection Enquiries) and a core assessment if they knew that Tia was staying with her Grandmother and Stuart at weekends, in order to assess the risk that he posed to her.

And the key word in this sentence is 'if'

His previous convictions would have necessitated this. However this is only likely to have happened if Social Services knew about the convictions and that Tia was resident with them.

Once again, the key word here is 'if'

As far as I know details of convictions are not automatically notified to Social Services.

That's absolutely correct - even with convictions for sexual abuse and people on the Sex Offenders' Register - BUT of course the police are informed of those people. Hazell appeared to have no such convictions. The police monitor those who have committed sex offences and are then released from prison. They are graded into 'high', 'medium' and 'low' risk - and visited regularly by police officers.

However if Social Services have concerns about someone who has contact with children, then they will request police checks to see if they have previous convictions to help assess the risk and complete their reports. Again, according to newspaper reports, the family were known to Social Services, so it is quite likely that these assessments were done.

Probably the key question for Social Services here is: Was Tia placed on the Child Protetction Register? If yes, Social Services will have major questions to answer. The other questions are: Did they know about Hazell's convictions? Did they know he had unsupervised time alone with Tia? How much did Social Services know? And how much ought they to have known?

by DLinne8 13.08.12 15:37

Hello all, I'm new here. I was briefly a member a couple of years ago using a different username, commenting on the Joanna Yeates case as it unfolded.

Rest of post deleted, you are saying this person is already guilty when there has been no trial yet.

by DLinne8 13.08.12 15:49

Post deleted. There will be a trial in good time, no one has been found guilty of an offence.

by aquarius2 13.08.12 15:53

Tony Bennett wrote: .
Probably the key question for Social Services here is: Was Tia placed on the Child Protetction Register? If yes, Social Services will have major questions to answer. The other questions are: Did they know about Hazell's convictions? Did they know he had unsupervised time alone with Tia? How much did Social Services know? And how much ought they to have known?

What strikes me is the unusual phrase used by Martin Brunt "Christine Sharp very often provided accommodation for Tia at weekends". This might simply be an odd choice of words, however children in need who are not actually "looked after" in the public care of a local authority as their legal guardian may also be voluntarily "accommodated" with relatives with the knowledge and support of a public authority but without a court order. The local authority may provide financial assistance for this.

I am speculating of course, but if this latter situation ('accommodation'- with her grandmother) were to turn out to have been the case with Tia, this would have significant implications for Child Protection policies in a social services system still reeling from the impact of the 'Baby P' case.

by Guest 13.08.12 16:04

I don`t think it has been made clear whether Tia`s weekend stays with her grandmother had been happening for years or whether they only started relatively recently. For example, had she been staying with her grandmother on a regular basis before Stuart Hazell arrived on the scene ( in 2008)?

I noticed that she went there on a Thursday which is not exactly the weekend. Perhaps this was a one off. Or perhaps Tia was staying there more often than we have been led to believe.

I don`t know much about postmortems but presumably apart from ascertaining cause of death, time of death is something that they might be trying to establish. And whether there is any forensic evidence to suggest that the body may have been moved from the house at any time.

by aiyoyo 13.08.12 16:18

admin wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:What I cannot grasp is how the smell of decomposition escapes the neighbours, and police for that matter who were inside the house at least four or 5 times throughout that week.

The body temperature upon death which decreases progressively to room temperature would then rise against progressively 30 hours after death to room temperature. Given the summer heat which accelerates decomposition smell should have been whiffed from miles off given that she'd been there for a week.

When I was in the police many moons ago I went to a tower block of flats where an elderly man had hanged himself behind his front door and he'd been there a long time cos he was riddled with maggots. We didn't notice the smell until we opened the letterbox which begged the question why didn't the postman notice the smell and report it? And when the letterbox was opened regularly you'd think the smell would escape and the hallway would be rife, but it wasn't. Maybe the smell doesn't travel that far? It's certainly not a smell I will ever forget. Maybe PeterMac can elaborate on this. I don't know how long it takes for a body to be riddled with maggots.

From the little I know about decomposition and smell, body needs not be riddled with maggots before it smells.
The unmistaken strong smell of corpse once whiffed never to be forgotten ever is caused by gases released after the body self destruct. Breakdown and digestion of the body's cells and gases released as a result are what give body that terrible smell and this can happen between 4-10 days after death depending on other factors and elements for example whether body was enveloped, in enclosed or exposed space, climate temperature and humidity level. Plus the liquid from the internally broken down body will start to seep a putrid liquid towards gravity.

I know of a friend who found her uncle dead in his apt 4 days after death, she described the smell as so horrendous and terrible that it was beyond word. She'd to throw every soft object and soft furniture away because the smell was so overpoweringly pervasive. Even the TV which she left to air for weeks stunk still of the decomposition smell that it had to be thrown away as well. Practically everything in the apt was unsalvageable from the stench bearing a very few.

Back to the case, I have read a few more articles relating to the case and learnt that Police did whiff the smell of decomposition during earlier search. Maybe that explains their persistence with the repeated search subsequently armed with a warrant to tear down the place.

by Guest 13.08.12 16:29

DLinne8

If you were posting a couple of years back on JY case then you know the problems we had about people speculating and accusing.

I have deleted two of your posts and part of the first one. You are posting as if a person is guilty. This person has not been found guilty in a court and the case is now sub judice, so we must be careful what is posted.

Your hypothetical scenario was deleted, because although maybe some close to the mark, I found the last sentence totally not warranted whereby you are putting a another very close member of the family in the frame.

I am interested as to why you have not been here for 2 years and have suddenly come back to post on this case? Does the Madeleine McCann case not interest you?

It is all very well speculating but we do not know any facts. The McCann case is totally different because we have actual police files and statements to read.

I would please ask all members here to be very careful with assumptions, speculation and accusations.