Re: Missing Tia Sharp

by DLinne8 13.08.12 16:34

candyfloss wrote:DLinne8

If you were posting a couple of years back on JY case then you know the problems we had about people speculating and accusing.

I have deleted two of your posts and part of the first one. You are posting as if a person is guilty. This person has not been found guilty in a court and the case is now sub judice, so we must be careful what is posted.

Your hypothetical scenario was deleted, because although maybe some close to the mark, I found the last sentence totally not warranted whereby you are putting a another very close member of the family in the frame.

I am interested as to why you have not been here for 2 years and have suddenly come back to post on this case? Does the Madeleine McCann case not interest you?

It is all very well speculating but we do not know any facts. The McCann case is totally different because we have actual police files and statements to read.

I would please ask all members here to be very careful with assumptions, speculation and accusations.

Sorry, I get that now. I have read everything about the McCann case that there is on this website and all books related to it. I haven't commented on it, that's all. Most of the time I observe and don't comment, but it doesn't mean I'm not interested. There is a forum that I read every day but have never even registered. Occasionally a case will inspire me to comment. I know the rules now so I'll just comment on what I can. big grin

by TheTruthWillOut 13.08.12 16:38

DLinne8 wrote:
candyfloss wrote:DLinne8

If you were posting a couple of years back on JY case then you know the problems we had about people speculating and accusing.

I have deleted two of your posts and part of the first one. You are posting as if a person is guilty. This person has not been found guilty in a court and the case is now sub judice, so we must be careful what is posted.

Your hypothetical scenario was deleted, because although maybe some close to the mark, I found the last sentence totally not warranted whereby you are putting a another very close member of the family in the frame.

I am interested as to why you have not been here for 2 years and have suddenly come back to post on this case? Does the Madeleine McCann case not interest you?

It is all very well speculating but we do not know any facts. The McCann case is totally different because we have actual police files and statements to read.

I would please ask all members here to be very careful with assumptions, speculation and accusations.

Sorry, I get that now. I have read everything about the McCann case that there is on this website and all books related to it. I haven't commented on it, that's all. Most of the time I observe and don't comment, but it doesn't mean I'm not interested. There is a forum that I read every day but have never even registered. Occasionally a case will inspire me to comment. I know the rules now so I'll just comment on what I can.

I must admit that the whole sub judice law scared me too. I find it interesting that the media only started to remove articles when Hazell was charged not when arrested?

Anyone know why this would be?

by DLinne8 13.08.12 16:40

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
DLinne8 wrote:
candyfloss wrote:DLinne8

If you were posting a couple of years back on JY case then you know the problems we had about people speculating and accusing.

I have deleted two of your posts and part of the first one. You are posting as if a person is guilty. This person has not been found guilty in a court and the case is now sub judice, so we must be careful what is posted.

Your hypothetical scenario was deleted, because although maybe some close to the mark, I found the last sentence totally not warranted whereby you are putting a another very close member of the family in the frame.

I am interested as to why you have not been here for 2 years and have suddenly come back to post on this case? Does the Madeleine McCann case not interest you?

It is all very well speculating but we do not know any facts. The McCann case is totally different because we have actual police files and statements to read.

I would please ask all members here to be very careful with assumptions, speculation and accusations.

Sorry, I get that now. I have read everything about the McCann case that there is on this website and all books related to it. I haven't commented on it, that's all. Most of the time I observe and don't comment, but it doesn't mean I'm not interested. There is a forum that I read every day but have never even registered. Occasionally a case will inspire me to comment. I know the rules now so I'll just comment on what I can.

I must admit that the whole sub judice law scared me too. I find it interesting that the media only started to remove articles when Hazell was charged not when arrested?

Anyone know why this would be?

I'm just grateful there are mods here to protect me from the repercussions of my own words, potentially.

by Nina 13.08.12 16:41

alison wrote:I don`t think it has been made clear whether Tia`s weekend stays with her grandmother had been happening for years or whether they only started relatively recently. For example, had she been staying with her grandmother on a regular basis before Stuart Hazell arrived on the scene ( in 2008)?

I noticed that she went there on a Thursday which is not exactly the weekend. Perhaps this was a one off. Or perhaps Tia was staying there more often than we have been led to believe.

I don`t know much about postmortems but presumably apart from ascertaining cause of death, time of death is something that they might be trying to establish. And whether there is any forensic evidence to suggest that the body may have been moved from the house at any time.

During term time maybe Tia just stayed over at her Grandmothers place for a couple of nights, Friday and Saturday then went back to her Mum's for Sunday night ready for school the following morning. But school has broken up so a longer stay. Doesn't matter now as the poor child is dead, just a thought of what could have been the routine.

by DLinne8 13.08.12 16:48

I wonder if the reason why Mark Williams-Thomas, the man who interviewed SH on Thursday, wasn't allowed in Tia's bedroom, was because the smell of decomposition was noticeable in that room due to the body being directly above it in the attic?

by Nina 13.08.12 16:49

aiyoyo wrote:
admin wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:What I cannot grasp is how the smell of decomposition escapes the neighbours, and police for that matter who were inside the house at least four or 5 times throughout that week.

The body temperature upon death which decreases progressively to room temperature would then rise against progressively 30 hours after death to room temperature. Given the summer heat which accelerates decomposition smell should have been whiffed from miles off given that she'd been there for a week.

When I was in the police many moons ago I went to a tower block of flats where an elderly man had hanged himself behind his front door and he'd been there a long time cos he was riddled with maggots. We didn't notice the smell until we opened the letterbox which begged the question why didn't the postman notice the smell and report it? And when the letterbox was opened regularly you'd think the smell would escape and the hallway would be rife, but it wasn't. Maybe the smell doesn't travel that far? It's certainly not a smell I will ever forget. Maybe PeterMac can elaborate on this. I don't know how long it takes for a body to be riddled with maggots.

From the little I know about decomposition and smell, body needs not be riddled with maggots before it smells.
The unmistaken strong smell of corpse once whiffed never to be forgotten ever is caused by gases released after the body self destruct. Breakdown and digestion of the body's cells and gases released as a result are what give body that terrible smell and this can happen between 4-10 days after death depending on other factors and elements for example whether body was enveloped, in enclosed or exposed space, climate temperature and humidity level. Plus the liquid from the internally broken down body will start to seep a putrid liquid towards gravity.

I know of a friend who found her uncle dead in his apt 4 days after death, she described the smell as so horrendous and terrible that it was beyond word. She'd to throw every soft object and soft furniture away because the smell was so overpoweringly pervasive. Even the TV which she left to air for weeks stunk still of the decomposition smell that it had to be thrown away as well. Practically everything in the apt was unsalvageable from the stench bearing a very few.

Back to the case, I have read a few more articles relating to the case and learnt that Police did whiff the smell of decomposition during earlier search. Maybe that explains their persistence with the repeated search subsequently armed with a warrant to tear down the place.

The body doesn't need to be 'riddled with maggots' for the all pervasive scent to be produced. It is the scent of the body which attracts the blow fly which lays it's eggs that then become maggots, which then in turn help to break down the soft tissue.
I hate writing this as we are talking of the death of a person, a child, but just wanted to add some information and am not wanting to be ghoulish at all.

by Guest 13.08.12 16:52

According to a programme I saw a while ago, the first fly will land on a body within an hour and lay eggs, due to the scent it gives off. Maggots hatch a day later. Gruesome subject Missing Tia Sharp - Page 25 173510

by DLinne8 13.08.12 16:58

Mark Williams-Thomas tweeted when the body was found:

"Such sad news - I stayed downstairs yesterday. The other members of the family were all upstairs. I was not allowed to go into Tia's room."

Bear in mind that this was less than a day before police noticed a smell of decomposition,

"A further search of Sharp’s house began on Friday morning when a junior officer insisted a sniffer dog was ‘indicating’ towards a bedroom ceiling. The officers themselves could also smell decomposition."

I wonder if it is possible that anyone else who went upstairs during Thursday might have smelt this...

by Spaniel 13.08.12 17:12

DLinne8 wrote:Mark Williams-Thomas tweeted when the body was found:

"Such sad news - I stayed downstairs yesterday. The other members of the family were all upstairs. I was not allowed to go into Tia's room."

Bear in mind that this was less than a day before police noticed a smell of decomposition,

"A further search of Sharp’s house began on Friday morning when a junior officer insisted a sniffer dog was ‘indicating’ towards a bedroom ceiling. The officers themselves could also smell decomposition." Yes once the dogs had indicated.

I wonder if it is possible that anyone else who went upstairs during Thursday might have smelt this...

MWT was a legend in his own lunchtime in the Mirror days.

by DLinne8 13.08.12 17:21

I read that it takes several washes to get the odour of decomposition out of your clothes, it clings to hair and fingernails, can make you vomit easily, and permeates very easily throughout a house.

by DLinne8 13.08.12 17:48

There may have been a damp spot on the ceiling of Tia's bedroom. I would be interested to know who had accessed her bedroom, if anyone, the day before she was discovered.

by Spaniel 13.08.12 17:58

DLinne8 wrote:I wonder if the reason why Mark Williams-Thomas, the man who interviewed SH on Thursday, wasn't allowed in Tia's bedroom, was because the smell of decomposition was noticeable in that room due to the body being directly above it in the attic?

If my daughter was missing, I wouldn't want some stranger tramping across her bedroom either.

by pennylane 13.08.12 18:02

DLinne8 wrote:I read that it takes several washes to get the odour of decomposition out of your clothes, it clings to hair and fingernails, can make you vomit easily, and permeates very easily throughout a house.

...or car!

by Spaniel 13.08.12 18:05

DLinne8 wrote:There may have been a damp spot on the ceiling of Tia's bedroom. I would be interested to know who had accessed her bedroom, if anyone, the day before she was discovered.

Deleted but aware.

by **PeterMac** 13.08.12 18:20

pennylane wrote:
DLinne8 wrote:I read that it takes several washes to get the odour of decomposition out of your clothes, it clings to hair and fingernails, can make you vomit easily, and permeates very easily throughout a house.

...or car!

We used to get a special issue of cleaning vouchers after handling a body, other than a very fresh one. I once used my uniform issue leather gloves 'faut de mieux', to handle a long dead corpse and then left them in the pocket of my gannex over my days off. The next time I looked they were fluorescing green.

by pennylane 13.08.12 18:24

PeterMac wrote:
pennylane wrote:
DLinne8 wrote:I read that it takes several washes to get the odour of decomposition out of your clothes, it clings to hair and fingernails, can make you vomit easily, and permeates very easily throughout a house.

...or car!
We used to get a special issue of cleaning vouchers after handling a body, other than a very fresh one. I once used my uniform issue leather gloves 'faut de mieux', to handle a long dead corpse and then left them in the pocket of my gannex over my days off. The next time I looked they were fluorescing green.

OMG PeterMac! Shocked

by **Tony Bennett** 13.08.12 18:35

DLinne8 wrote:I read that it takes several washes to get the odour of decomposition out of your clothes, it clings to hair and fingernails, can make you vomit easily, and permeates very easily throughout a house.

This was written in 2008:

The unpleasant smell in the Renault Scenic

We looked at a few facts about the hire of the Renault Scenic above. Now we look at the following extract from Michael Wright’s synopsis: “On a number of occasions he [Michael Wright] noticed an unpleasant smell in the vehicle that he put down to the twins' used nappies which had been discarded with the general waste. He was not aware of any spillages in the vehicle or anyone cleaning it”.

Given these statements, it is more than passing interest that a neighbour of the McCanns observed that ‘the back door of the Renault Scenic was left open all night long’ - presumably to get rid of the smell? It is hardly likely that the McCanns would have left ‘rotting meat’ and ‘dirty nappies’ in the back of the car for long enough for the smell to remain. Smells like that would be washed away with a good clean. The smell of human cadaverine, however, once it attaches to an item, can linger for years.

It is interesting that he uses the term ‘unpleasant smell’. As a mature adult, he would surely know what kind of smells resulted from ‘rotting meat’ and ‘dirty nappies’. But he doesn’t say the car smelt of either of these. He talks about an ‘unpleasant smell’ - and one that clearly lingered a long time, being noticed ‘on several occasions’. Incidentally, though Michael Wright claims that he was not aware of the car ever being cleaned, there is evidence that another relative, Sandy Cameron, was seen cleaning it on several occasions. Clearly it was a most unusual smell. Could it have been the ‘smell of death’ detected by Eddie, the cadaver dog?

Quite why dirty nappies should smell that much is a puzzle anyway, assuming that the McCanns do whatever other parents do, namely, fold the nappies up and put them away in a sealable polythene bag ready for disposal.

It may reasonably asked why Michael Wright would mention the unpleasant smell at all. There are perhaps two reasons why he did so. Either he never knew that Madeleine’s body may have been transported in the Scenic, i.e. it was all done entirely without his knowledge, and he just honestly volunteered to the Portuguese police that there was a funny smell in the car, or he may have been actively helping the McCanns with the disposal of Madeleine’s body (or known about it and been involved in the subsequent cover-up) by putting up a false reason for the smell in the car - or, shall we say, a reason why Eddie the cadaver dog might ‘alert’ to a smell in that car.

One blogger wrote the following about the ‘smell of death’: “For anyone who has never smelt it, the smell of a decaying body can never be mistaken. It cannot and will never be mistaken for anything else. It is a sweet, sickly, gas-like smell, nothing remotely like butchered rotting meat or dirty nappies. Anyone who has ever successfully used rodent poison under their floor will (a few days later) have had a taste of what a decaying whole body smells of. Once smelt, never forgotten”.

One suggestion made is that Dr Gerry McCann and Michael Wright may have deliberately placed dirty nappies and rotten meat in the car to modify and cover the cadaver scent.

Another possibility is simply that during the voluntary questioning of him, the British detective asked him if he noticed an unpleasant smell, agreed that he had done, and simply did his best by putting forward an explanation as to what might have been the cause of the bad smell.

The explanation for so many trips to the rubbish dump centred around garden waste. But as we saw above, the idea that the McCanns were able to find time for gardening seems unlikely, as of course was the necessity for Dr Kate McCann to wash the holiday curtains. What other holidaymakers need to wash their holiday curtains?

by DLinne8 13.08.12 18:39

New tweet from MWT - BRUISES TO TIA'S BODY

by Nina 13.08.12 18:39

The banner on the top of the forum is showing faces that I shall never forget, just came back on and made my heart beat faster. The dogs though, ah what wonderful creatures.

by **Tony Bennett** 13.08.12 18:41

DLinne8 wrote:New tweet from MWT - BRUISES TO TIA'S BODY

Is Mark Williams-Thomas aware of the sub-judice rules? - or have the police just released the official post-mortem results?

by Guest 13.08.12 18:44

Tony Bennett wrote:
DLinne8 wrote:New tweet from MWT - BRUISES TO TIA'S BODY
Is Mark Williams-Thomas aware of the sub-judice rules? - or have the police just released the official post-mortem results?

This from the BBC Home Affairs correspondent..............

Danny Shaw‏@DannyShawBBC

#TiaSharp More details about Tia's death...there were bruises to her body. One possible cause of death - not yet established - smothering

by DLinne8 13.08.12 18:45

Post mortem still not completed. However, this information has been officially released.

by **PeterMac** 13.08.12 18:48

I don't think, sadly that we need to speculate too much about what happened. It is all so dreadfully predictable.

by Guest 13.08.12 18:49

DLinne8 wrote:Post mortem still not completed. However, this information has been officially released.

Yes, this on the BBC website..........

snipped.......

August 2012 Last updated at 18:32

Tia Sharp death: Police consider smothering theory

Missing Tia Sharp - Page 25 _62248488_62248487

Missing Tia Sharp - Page 25 _62248488_62248487

Stuart Hazell did not enter a plea to the charge
Police investigating the death of Tia Sharp are examining the possibility the schoolgirl had been smothered.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19240104

by DLinne8 13.08.12 18:57

Dr. Edward David, a deputy chief medical examiner for the state of Maine and co-author of the "Cadaver Dog Handbook," said that when a body is left in one spot for several hours, cells are left behind. They continue to decompose and create an odor, giving the dog scents to detect.