Daily Star 7/7/12

by ShuBob 07.07.12 10:26

'MADELEINE MCCANN GRAVE YARDS FROM HER HOLS FLAT'

A source close to the McCanns, of Rothley, Leics, said: “It appears this so-called investigator used scanning equipment during a visit to the resort in June.

“Kate and Gerry do not believe there is anything credible in what he is saying. It seems to be complete lies. If there was any truth in it, police would be out there digging up the area looking for possible remains.”

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/260768/-Madeleine-McCann-grave-yards-from-her-hols-flat-/

Probably the very same source who used to call pretendy police press conferences to announce to the world how inept the PJ are for not following leads which had already been investigated and dismissed.

The sheer hypocrisy Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 9 595373

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 9 595373

by ShuBob 07.07.12 10:30

I don't think it's fair that the names of innocent people are being dragged into this because of a story with unproven credibility. Are the lives of the******* going to be dissected now?

by Pershing36 07.07.12 10:31

Unfortunately I have to agree with them. If the Police thought this was credible surely the area would be closed off by now.

by sweetex 07.07.12 10:33

I am intrigued by all of this. Still open minded that this guy may be a nutter though.

Thinking about if it is true. I wonder how much the T7 really know (bringing into account this MJS person). Although Birch claims that Murat was not involved, I can't see how they buried her there without him knowing. He was around on the 3rd wasnt he? Unless his attention was somewhere else while this plan was put into operation.

Focus should be now on finding out if this is true or not. And I wonder how long we are going to wait. yawn

by **sharonl** 07.07.12 10:36

This old news article may be of some interest
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489408/Madeleines-DNA-Murats-house-police-claim.html

According to sources quoted in the newspaper 24 Horas DNA samples found in his house was Madeleine's.
Detectives claimed they matched traces found in the hire car rented by the Kate and Gerry McCann 25 days after Madeleine disappeared.

Mr Murat,33, an Anglo-Portuguese who lives at his mother's rambling walled villa Casa Liliana, was arrested two weeks after the youngster vanished from her parents's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, 60 yards away.
He became the first and only official suspect in the case until Kate and Gerry, both 39, were named by Portugal's Justice Ministry six weeks ago.
Sources alleged Mr Murat did not return to the house after his arrest on May 14 on suspicion of havimg been involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

The tell-tale traces were reportedly discovered during searches between June 10 and August 4.

They explain why Portuguese police are refusing to drop their theory that Madeleine died in her parents' apartment and her body was hidden nearby until it could be removed from the area.

by ShuBob 07.07.12 10:40

Pershing36 wrote:Unfortunately I have to agree with them. If the Police thought this was credible surely the area would be closed off by now.

But that's not the point! They used to criticize the PJ for apparently not following leads even when they KNEW those leads had been investigated and eliminated. Why are they not holding press conferences and putting the PJ on the spotlight this time? ***Rhetorical question alert***

by Cheshire Cat 07.07.12 10:41

sharonl wrote:This old news article may be of some interest
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489408/Madeleines-DNA-Murats-house-police-claim.html

According to sources quoted in the newspaper 24 Horas DNA samples found in his house was Madeleine's.
Detectives claimed they matched traces found in the hire car rented by the Kate and Gerry McCann 25 days after Madeleine disappeared.

Mr Murat,33, an Anglo-Portuguese who lives at his mother's rambling walled villa Casa Liliana, was arrested two weeks after the youngster vanished from her parents's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, 60 yards away.
He became the first and only official suspect in the case until Kate and Gerry, both 39, were named by Portugal's Justice Ministry six weeks ago.
Sources alleged Mr Murat did not return to the house after his arrest on May 14 on suspicion of havimg been involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

The tell-tale traces were reportedly discovered during searches between June 10 and August 4.

They explain why Portuguese police are refusing to drop their theory that Madeleine died in her parents' apartment and her body was hidden nearby until it could be removed from the area.

If this is where the body was hidden initially, and then later moved in the Scenic, then it would have to have been moved back to the garden at a later date as the bones have been detected recently (according to Birch).

by sweetex 07.07.12 10:44

ShuBob wrote:I don't think it's fair that the names of innocent people are being dragged into this because of a story with unproven credibility. Are the lives of the ******** going to be dissected now?

Silence is not necessary a sign of being guilty. But I wonder if ******** will make a comment about this. Maybe also consulting his attorneys now. This implication is HUGE, and really hope SB knows what he is talking about, otherwise he is going to spend the rest of his life paying off libel fees, well either that or he is going to jail.

by Pershing36 07.07.12 10:49

Cheshire Cat wrote:

If this is where the body was hidden and then moved then it would have to have been moved back to the garden at a later date. Perhaps a much later date?

That's the only way I see this scenario working if it to be true. Moving a body would make sense to stop it being found. However you would be taking a hell of a risk each time you moved it.

If this does turn out to be correct I am wondering if something went wrong at some point or it was in danger of being found and panic set in and it was brought to the home out of desperation. Lets face it it is not the most intelligent thing to do in your own garden. It instantly makes you a suspect.

by Cheshire Cat 07.07.12 10:55

Pershing36 wrote:
Cheshire Cat wrote:

If this is where the body was hidden and then moved then it would have to have been moved back to the garden at a later date. Perhaps a much later date?

That's the only way I see this scenario working if it to be true. Moving a body would make sense to stop it being found. However you would be taking a hell of a risk each time you moved it.

If this does turn out to be correct I am wondering if something went wrong at some point or it was in danger of being found and panic set in and it was brought to the home out of desperation. Lets face it it is not the most intelligent thing to do in your own garden. It instantly makes you a suspect.

Could depend on how well GM and RM know each other. A private garden that has already been gone over by Cadaver dogs seems a low-risk hiding place. No danger of walkers or farmers making a discovery. ETA: I don't believe this is what happened. Too complicated.

by **sharonl** 07.07.12 10:57

Another old news report

Madeleine: Police digging at chief suspect's home

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-473242/Madeleine-Police-digging-chief-suspects-home.html

The second picture in this article is one of the 5 pics that the SA Investigator sent to me in March 2011, to back up his claim that Madeleine was buried in Murats back yard.

If there was any truth in all of this, then the body could not have been buried there around May 3rd as this would not tie in with cadaver odour found in the hire car 3 weeks later.

Neither did the dogs alert to Murats property

So the body would have been moved there after the initial searches - highly unlikely

If the police are really going to dig up the garden again, would it not be more beneficial to call in the dogs first?

To me this resembles the case where Marcos Aragao Correio claimed that Madeleine had been thrown into the Arade dam, a publicity stunt that sells papers.

All the old Daily Mail articles on Murat http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?pageOffset=1&pageSize=&sel=site&searchPhrase=robert+murat&orderBy=relevDesc&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_contenttype=on&dateupdated=&dateFrom=&dateTo=&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_personnames=on

by Cheshire Cat 07.07.12 11:04

sharonl wrote:Another old news report

Madeleine: Police digging at chief suspect's home

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-473242/Madeleine-Police-digging-chief-suspects-home.html

The second picture in this article is one of the 5 pics that the SA Investigator sent to me in March 2011, to back up his claim that Madeleine was buried in Murats back yard.

If there was any truth in all of this, then the body could not have been buried there around May 3rd as this would not tie in with cadaver odour found in the hire car 3 weeks later.

Neither did the dogs alert to Murats property

So the body would have been moved there after the initial searches - highly unlikely

If the police are really going to dig up the garden again, would it not be more beneficial to call in the dogs first?

To me this resembles the case where Marcos Aragao Correio claimed that Madeleine had been thrown into the Arade dam, a publicity stunt that sells papers.

All the old Daily Mail articles on Murat http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?pageOffset=1&pageSize=&sel=site&searchPhrase=robert+murat&orderBy=relevDesc&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_channelshortname=on&_contenttype=on&dateupdated=&dateFrom=&dateTo=&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_authornamef=on&_personnames=on

I agree, I thought of the Arcade dam - this most likely is a publicy stunt.

by sweetex 07.07.12 11:13

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t20884p60-police-probe-madeleine-grave-theory

Scroll down.

Stephen Bird clip talking about his findings. Haven't seen this one.

ETA: his images are explained.

ETA: Err... I'm a bit sceptical now.... He must have something else up his sleeve, because if he is going to only use the images, I don't have much hope.

by uppatoffee 07.07.12 11:16

Listening to the interview Birch gave on the radio, it doesn't sound like he supports the McCanns though. He sought to distance himself from the family very quickly when asked. He said he wanted to be completely independent and didn't want any contact with the family at all. When questioned about the negative impact it would have on their lives should it turn out to be nothing he didn't seem concerned at all. Much more so in getting it investigated by the pj and eliminating it from the enquiry if that was the case.

He is either mad or incredibly sure of his research as you wouldn't potentially incriminate yourself or others unless you were one or the other!

One thing I spotted when looking at Eben Black's details the other day was that he worked for the second largest law firm in the world, DLA Piper. Perhaps that is an indication?

by pingunootnoot 07.07.12 11:30

I am confused, what motive could Stephen Birch have. It cannot be a monetary gain because if anything he would probably get sued by Murat.
I find it incredibly strange that the Mccanns have not really made comments on this. Surely they should be pushing the Portuguese authorities to eliminate this from the line of inquiries? Maybe this wont benefit them financially especially if they are now looking for a dead child.

by **sharonl** 07.07.12 11:41

Just for the record, the investigator that sent me an e-mail 15 months ago clearly stated that he had also been in touch with Goncalo Amaral and the Policia Judiciari and anything that he had forwarded to me was also in the hands of the PJ.

by sweetex 07.07.12 11:49

sharonl wrote:Just for the record, the investigator that sent me an e-mail 15 months ago clearly stated that he had also been in touch with Goncalo Amaral and the Policia Judiciari and anything that he had forwarded to me was also in the hands of the PJ.

Out of interest, I'm sure you don't want to reveal to much but you can PM me if you want to. This "investigator" than sent you this information, is he born South African? Is he a policeman/detective in South Africa? I am from South African, and I'm dying to know.... lol. You don't have to give his name to me, but I find it very interesting that all these "investigators" are interested in this case. I actually contacted one of our "top cops" in the country a while back too with regards to this case, unfortunately he never replied.

by Guest 07.07.12 11:53

He sounds credible enough to me in the radio interview, but if it's true he's been looking at the case for 15 months, and has accumulated 12,000 pages, he ought to have released some of that information to back his claims up instead of just marching in and making serious allegations like the 2007 searches weren't done properly.

If he has 12,000 pages to back up his conclusions, Mr Birch should publish some of them so people aren't doubting his motives. Otherwise he's in danger of looking like another Halligen, and people, and the police, might think this week's efforts are aimed at generating publicity prior to the publication of a book or documentary.

Publish, Mr Birch yes

by MikeyB 07.07.12 11:55

sharonl wrote:Just for the record, the investigator that sent me an e-mail 15 months ago clearly stated that he had also been in touch with Goncalo Amaral and the Policia Judiciari and anything that he had forwarded to me was also in the hands of the PJ.

If the PJ have had this information for 15 months surely they would have acted on it before now?
Seems the whole thing is just another hoax.

by ShuBob 07.07.12 11:58

sharonl wrote:Just for the record, the investigator that sent me an e-mail 15 months ago clearly stated that he had also been in touch with Goncalo Amaral and the Policia Judiciari and anything that he had forwarded to me was also in the hands of the PJ.

I have little doubt that the McCanns would also have been aware of him before or around the same time he contacted you. It could be they knew this was coming and this is why the old Horrocks article was rehashed. It's interesting that so far, Antonella Lazzeri and the Sun haven't shown any interest in the story Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 9 1214444319

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 9 1214444319

by ShuBob 07.07.12 12:00

tcat wrote:He sounds credible enough to me in the radio interview, but if it's true he's been looking at the case for 15 months, and has accumulated 12,000 pages, he ought to have released some of that information to back his claims up instead of just marching in and making serious allegations like the 2007 searches weren't done properly.

If he has 12,000 pages to back up his conclusions, Mr Birch should publish some of them so people aren't doubting his motives. Otherwise he's in danger of looking like another Halligen, and people, and the police, might think this week's efforts are aimed at generating publicity prior to the publication of a book or documentary.

Publish, Mr Birch

Another Halligen? How so? What did Halligen produce for public consumption? He'll be more akin to Marcos Aragao IMO.

by sweetex 07.07.12 12:01

tcat wrote:He sounds credible enough to me in the radio interview, but if it's true he's been looking at the case for 15 months, and has accumulated 12,000 pages, he ought to have released some of that information to back his claims up instead of just marching in and making serious allegations like the 2007 searches weren't done properly.

If he has 12,000 pages to back up his conclusions, Mr Birch should publish some of them so people aren't doubting his motives. Otherwise he's in danger of looking like another Halligen, and people, and the police, might think this week's efforts are aimed at generating publicity prior to the publication of a book or documentary.

Publish, Mr Birch

I read the 12000 pages, as the PJ files which he worked through to do his investigation. Not as his own.

This is the news article in South Africa today.... only one so far. He claims he has tested this machine on 12 "unmarked" bodies before he went to PDL.

"“I was trained for two months in the use of the device and knew its capabilities. During the test I was able to identify 12 bodies without marked graves between 1.5 and 2m below the surface,” Birch said."

http://www.thepost.co.za/i-ve-found-maddie-cape-man-1.1336216

by **sharonl** 07.07.12 12:04

Mike wrote:
sharonl wrote:Just for the record, the investigator that sent me an e-mail 15 months ago clearly stated that he had also been in touch with Goncalo Amaral and the Policia Judiciari and anything that he had forwarded to me was also in the hands of the PJ.

If the PJ have had this information for 15 months surely they would have acted on it before now?
Seems the whole thing is just another hoax.

We were led to believe that the information was in the hands of the police. If this was so, and it was credible, the police, surely would have acted upon it there and then.

by Guest 07.07.12 12:10

ShuBob wrote:Another Halligen? How so? What did Halligen produce for public consumption? He'll be more akin to Marcos Aragao IMO.

I mean in the sense of being a fantasist, a weaver of tales and a lover of the limelight.

It may be totally unfair to associate Birch with Halligen, but if he's genuine I feel he hasn't done himself any favours by making serious allegations without revealing any of the supporting evidence he claims to have.

by ShuBob 07.07.12 12:24

The Express have yet to throw their hat into the ring. Perhaps, the story will be a front page spash tomorrow.

by sweetex 07.07.12 12:31

Google translation:
Their lawyer wants police to act.

The McCann family's Portuguese lawyer, Rogério Alves said that the PJ should act on the suspicions, advanced by a private investigator, that there is a body buried in the yard of Robert Murat, in the Algarve.

The track, according to the newspaper "Morning Post", you have been supplied to PJ and Scotland Yard for a South African businessman who was in the Algarve in particular investigations. Using a system of geo-radar, Stephen Birch claims to have detected changes in the basement of the backyard of Murat, a neighbor of the hotel complex where the British girl disappeared. Changes that are supposed to be consistent with the possible existence of a body buried there.
When "Morning Post", Rogério Alves says now that "the family hopes that the police take a position on this matter and verify the location."
The representative of McCann explains that the girl's family does not know the business, but before a claim "as perentória, the family hopes that the police go check (...) if you do not, say why."

http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=2653347&especial=Revistas%20de%20Imprensa&seccao=TV%20e%20MEDIA

by Guest 07.07.12 12:39

sweetex wrote:
tcat wrote:He sounds credible enough to me in the radio interview, but if it's true he's been looking at the case for 15 months, and has accumulated 12,000 pages, he ought to have released some of that information to back his claims up instead of just marching in and making serious allegations like the 2007 searches weren't done properly.

If he has 12,000 pages to back up his conclusions, Mr Birch should publish some of them so people aren't doubting his motives. Otherwise he's in danger of looking like another Halligen, and people, and the police, might think this week's efforts are aimed at generating publicity prior to the publication of a book or documentary.

Publish, Mr Birch

I read the 12000 pages, as the PJ files which he worked through to do his investigation. Not as his own.

This is the news article in South Africa today.... only one so far. He claims he has tested this machine on 12 "unmarked" bodies before he went to PDL.

"“I was trained for two months in the use of the device and knew its capabilities. During the test I was able to identify 12 bodies without marked graves between 1.5 and 2m below the surface,” Birch said."

http://www.thepost.co.za/i-ve-found-maddie-cape-man-1.1336216

Yes, you're right, that's clear from the print interview now I've read it, but it wasn't in the radio one.

But to come out of the blue and say the 2007 searches weren't done properly is a huge accusation to make isn't it. How can he expect people to believe that without showing the evidence he claims to have. If he hasn't published that evidence or shown it to the police then I'm doubting he really believes he has found Madeleine.

by sweetex 07.07.12 12:44

@tcat

As far as I know according to all the reports all his evidence was sent to the PJ and SY. I am under correction, but that is what it looks like. I have also read that SY asked him for MORE information. I would love for him to publish it all in public domain. Either PJ or SY will have to make a decision to clear up this confusion and to eliminate the rumours.

by ShuBob 07.07.12 12:57

sweetex wrote:Google translation:
Their lawyer wants police to act.

The McCann family's Portuguese lawyer, Rogério Alves said that the PJ should act on the suspicions, advanced by a private investigator, that there is a body buried in the yard of Robert Murat, in the Algarve.

The track, according to the newspaper "Morning Post", you have been supplied to PJ and Scotland Yard for a South African businessman who was in the Algarve in particular investigations. Using a system of geo-radar, Stephen Birch claims to have detected changes in the basement of the backyard of Murat, a neighbor of the hotel complex where the British girl disappeared. Changes that are supposed to be consistent with the possible existence of a body buried there.
When "Morning Post", Rogério Alves says now that "the family hopes that the police take a position on this matter and verify the location."
The representative of McCann explains that the girl's family does not know the business, but before a claim "as perentória, the family hopes that the police go check (...) if you do not, say why."

http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=2653347&especial=Revistas%20de%20Imprensa&seccao=TV%20e%20MEDIA

That's one of their Portuguese lawyers. We know from past experience that their Portuguese lawyers sometimes veer off-script. I believe this was the same lawyer who told Sandra Felguieras in 2008 that he wanted the McCanns to return to Portugal for the reconstruction. Clarence Mitchell wasn't too pleased when Sandra put the information to him.

by **PeterMac** 07.07.12 13:12

If SY have the information they will have to deal with it properly. They cannot ignore it. It has to be developed and tested until they are certain that it is either correct or certain, so that they are SURE, that it is nonsense. And for that they need evidence of about the same standard.
They cannot merely do nothing.
This review will itself on day be reviewed.