The tapas phone autopsy
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Research and Analysis :: Guests and Ocean Club facilities + Telephone/Creche Records
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Gillyspot wrote:Stella wrote:Here is a chart listing Kate and Gerry's calls on the 3rd. Those highlighted in yellow represent calls at the same time.
GM KM 03-May 03-May 8.23 8.24 12.24 12.31 13.34 23.14 23.14 23.17 23.17 23.40 23.52
Have just been having a think. Graham Mackenzie another holidaymaker at the Ocean Club said overhead Gerry McCann between 10 and 11 pm on 3rd May 2007 speaking to a family member about Madeleine being taken by a paedophile, Yet according to the records he made no calls.
Could this be explained by Gerry deleting a call, or are the pings still recorded on the ping map, even after deleting a call ?
Could this also mean that Gerry was using someone elses phone?
I wish I was more knowledgeable about these things..
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Less than an hour after the 'abduction'?
Hi Gillispot,
So Gerry learned in the half hour or so not taken up with writing timelines, deleting all calls on his mobile and - according to some - running round OC trying to find her, that there were paedophile gangs in PdL?
It follows then that somebody told him this between 10.00 and the time of the telephone call. I wonder if the police had yet to arrive, since they weren't called until 10.40.
It can't have been the police who told him this, because they didn't hold this opinion at all, Besides, when they arrived they were treated to the masonic plea of Gerry, (or the praying Arab performance as Amaral put it), then inside they got a repeat performance from both, checked the cupboards and the flats asking questions. No they were busy.
I'm thinking that Gerry made that call before the police arrived and it makes no sense at all.
Because if he knew that earlier in the week, why leave the door open? If he found out later, who told him? Because as late as 10.30, when he spoke with Mrs. Fenn, he just mentioned that a 'little girl' was missing. No panic, no paedophiles.
If I encountered a parent looking anxiously for his child, I'd go an help him look, mentioning 'by the way, there are paedophile gangs in the area, we all know that' , wouldn't be top of the list.
It would also have to be an English speaking person and since most of those were guests on holiday, they'd not be likely to know about paedophile gangs, surely, if they knew, they'd have picked another holiday spot.
So Gerry learned in the half hour or so not taken up with writing timelines, deleting all calls on his mobile and - according to some - running round OC trying to find her, that there were paedophile gangs in PdL?
It follows then that somebody told him this between 10.00 and the time of the telephone call. I wonder if the police had yet to arrive, since they weren't called until 10.40.
It can't have been the police who told him this, because they didn't hold this opinion at all, Besides, when they arrived they were treated to the masonic plea of Gerry, (or the praying Arab performance as Amaral put it), then inside they got a repeat performance from both, checked the cupboards and the flats asking questions. No they were busy.
I'm thinking that Gerry made that call before the police arrived and it makes no sense at all.
Because if he knew that earlier in the week, why leave the door open? If he found out later, who told him? Because as late as 10.30, when he spoke with Mrs. Fenn, he just mentioned that a 'little girl' was missing. No panic, no paedophiles.
If I encountered a parent looking anxiously for his child, I'd go an help him look, mentioning 'by the way, there are paedophile gangs in the area, we all know that' , wouldn't be top of the list.
It would also have to be an English speaking person and since most of those were guests on holiday, they'd not be likely to know about paedophile gangs, surely, if they knew, they'd have picked another holiday spot.
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
I think someone must have told him about this even before the alarm was raised.
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Stella
Stella wrote:I think someone must have told him about this even before the alarm was raised.
I think you're too nice! I think he made it up.
And if he didn't make it up, he made it very easy for 'them' to take Maddie, didn't he?
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
No tigger, I'm thinking Casa Pia and the reason why paedophiles might choose Portugal over Jersey, when the Jersey care home scandal was shortly about to break !!! Someone, somewhere, probably knew this. They had contacts in high places with all the righttigger wrote:I think you're too nice! I think he made it up.Stella wrote:I think someone must have told him about this even before the alarm was raised.
And if he didn't make it up, he made it very easy for 'them' to take Maddie, didn't he?
![winkwink](/users/3111/10/75/94/smiles/302873.gif)
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
How about Gerry McCann was not actually on the phone but just pretending to be. Remember Graham McKenzie said that Gerry didn't lower his voice or make any signal that he was being overheard and carried on discussing it (perhaps that was the plan to prove he believed there was an abduction)?
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Good point Gilly !!! That would account for no pings at that time.
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Just read this thread. Can't pretend to understand it fully, but was thinking the same as Gilly... Sounds like he intended to be heard - otherwise why hold a conversation like that on the balcony? Absolutely no reaction to realising he was being overheard? No pings?
He might have been holding a mobile, but doesn't mean he was necessarily using it.
He could even have been talking to someone in the apartment, just looking in a different direction and holding a phone.
He might have been holding a mobile, but doesn't mean he was necessarily using it.
He could even have been talking to someone in the apartment, just looking in a different direction and holding a phone.
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Stewie wrote:
Rachel pings 22:51:24 then Matt pings 22:51:25 - 1 second diff
Matt pings 22:58:29 then Rachel pings 22:58:34 - 5 seconds diff
Rachel pings 22:59:12 then Matt pings 22:59:17 - 5 seconds diff
Matt pings 23:00:18 then Rachel pings 23:00:22 - 4 seconds diff
Matt pings 23:05:44 then Rachel pings 23:05:48 - 4 seconds diff
Rachel and Matt ping together at 23:06:17
Matt pings 23:24:31 then Rachel pings 23:24:41 - 10 seconds diff
Could these be multiple recipients of same text?
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
I can't begin to understand the technical info. There is a point I'd like to raise in terms of 'having no mobile/having low battery/no phone charger/phone switched off' etc.
When the kids were placed in the creche would the creche need a mobile phone number to contact the parents if the child were taken ill/in distress? If that's the case what number was registered with the creche and if/when that phone was switched off what times co-incided with the childrens' creche times.
Why would there be no mobile phones at the dinner table? I think that's a big issue here. A group of professionals and friends go on holiday. They take their mobile phones and chargers (who doesn't take their mobile phone nowadays?). They decide to dine together every evening at a fairly regular time. They stay in different apartments. They take it in turns to check on the children. I'd have thought text messaging would be very useful. One of the women intimated she didn't like the walk to check on the kids as it was a bit deserted - I'd have thought that was a very good reason to have a mobile phone in my hand. It would also be a good idea to have a mobile phone for the very reason that if one of the kids was awake/crying a text message could be sent to the dinner table of the Tapas bar. I seem to remember one of the T7 did a 'listening' and didn't enter the apartment, didn't have keys and couldn't remember if the door was open (perhaps my recollection is fuzzy). What would that person have done if one of the McCann children were awake/crying? legged it back to the Tapas bar?
As for a Portuguese pay-as-you-go phone. I ask myself why would that be needed? If they were using a Portuguese number did PJ have it? I can't believe that a Portuguese sim card would be needed for cost reasons.
Sorry, I can't contribute to the technical stuff - I wish I had a technical analytical brain but I don't. I just have the above questions.
When the kids were placed in the creche would the creche need a mobile phone number to contact the parents if the child were taken ill/in distress? If that's the case what number was registered with the creche and if/when that phone was switched off what times co-incided with the childrens' creche times.
Why would there be no mobile phones at the dinner table? I think that's a big issue here. A group of professionals and friends go on holiday. They take their mobile phones and chargers (who doesn't take their mobile phone nowadays?). They decide to dine together every evening at a fairly regular time. They stay in different apartments. They take it in turns to check on the children. I'd have thought text messaging would be very useful. One of the women intimated she didn't like the walk to check on the kids as it was a bit deserted - I'd have thought that was a very good reason to have a mobile phone in my hand. It would also be a good idea to have a mobile phone for the very reason that if one of the kids was awake/crying a text message could be sent to the dinner table of the Tapas bar. I seem to remember one of the T7 did a 'listening' and didn't enter the apartment, didn't have keys and couldn't remember if the door was open (perhaps my recollection is fuzzy). What would that person have done if one of the McCann children were awake/crying? legged it back to the Tapas bar?
As for a Portuguese pay-as-you-go phone. I ask myself why would that be needed? If they were using a Portuguese number did PJ have it? I can't believe that a Portuguese sim card would be needed for cost reasons.
Sorry, I can't contribute to the technical stuff - I wish I had a technical analytical brain but I don't. I just have the above questions.
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
aquila wrote:I can't begin to understand the technical info. There is a point I'd like to raise in terms of 'having no mobile/having low battery/no phone charger/phone switched off' etc.
When the kids were placed in the creche would the creche need a mobile phone number to contact the parents if the child were taken ill/in distress? If that's the case what number was registered with the creche and if/when that phone was switched off what times co-incided with the childrens' creche times.
Why would there be no mobile phones at the dinner table? I think that's a big issue here. A group of professionals and friends go on holiday. They take their mobile phones and chargers (who doesn't take their mobile phone nowadays?). They decide to dine together every evening at a fairly regular time. They stay in different apartments. They take it in turns to check on the children. I'd have thought text messaging would be very useful. One of the women intimated she didn't like the walk to check on the kids as it was a bit deserted - I'd have thought that was a very good reason to have a mobile phone in my hand. It would also be a good idea to have a mobile phone for the very reason that if one of the kids was awake/crying a text message could be sent to the dinner table of the Tapas bar. I seem to remember one of the T7 did a 'listening' and didn't enter the apartment, didn't have keys and couldn't remember if the door was open (perhaps my recollection is fuzzy). What would that person have done if one of the McCann children were awake/crying? legged it back to the Tapas bar?
As for a Portuguese pay-as-you-go phone. I ask myself why would that be needed? If they were using a Portuguese number did PJ have it? I can't believe that a Portuguese sim card would be needed for cost reasons.
Sorry, I can't contribute to the technical stuff - I wish I had a technical analytical brain but I don't. I just have the above questions.
I think it was Gerrys number that they left with the creche to contact them, wich is funny since his mobile was turned of until the 3th May..
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Invinoveritas, this is as far as I know, a pretty complete account of the phone pings as collated by Kikoraton.
I note that you suggest ( in the creche sheets topic) a new topic on this to go 'behind closed doors' - I don't really know what you mean by that? Because if there is new information, would that then be available only to a limited number of members?
That would detract from the value of this topic for instance, I think. It would leave it incomplete and wrong conclusions could be drawn by members without access to privileged information.
I note that you suggest ( in the creche sheets topic) a new topic on this to go 'behind closed doors' - I don't really know what you mean by that? Because if there is new information, would that then be available only to a limited number of members?
That would detract from the value of this topic for instance, I think. It would leave it incomplete and wrong conclusions could be drawn by members without access to privileged information.
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
tigger wrote:Invinoveritas, this is as far as I know, a pretty complete account of the phone pings as collated by Kikoraton.
I note that you suggest ( in the creche sheets topic) a new topic on this to go 'behind closed doors' - I don't really know what you mean by that? Because if there is new information, would that then be available only to a limited number of members?
That would detract from the value of this topic for instance, I think. It would leave it incomplete and wrong conclusions could be drawn by members without access to privileged information.
Not at all tigger, my suggestion was and is, is that the information that is available here on the many threads should be bundled onto one thread, where the chronological list of events is available for reference, I think Stella understood what I was saying, this is what I meant when I said "behind closed doors", then anyone can start a thread if they wish to, using the data-bank for reference and is then free for discussion
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Invinoveritas wrote:tigger wrote:Invinoveritas, this is as far as I know, a pretty complete account of the phone pings as collated by Kikoraton.
I note that you suggest ( in the creche sheets topic) a new topic on this to go 'behind closed doors' - I don't really know what you mean by that? Because if there is new information, would that then be available only to a limited number of members?
That would detract from the value of this topic for instance, I think. It would leave it incomplete and wrong conclusions could be drawn by members without access to privileged information.
Not at all tigger, my suggestion was and is, is that the information that is available here on the many threads should be bundled onto one thread, where the chronological list of events is available for reference, I think Stella understood what I was saying, this is what I meant when I said "behind closed doors", then anyone can start a thread if they wish to, using the data-bank for reference and is then free for discussion
I totally agree with the need to have the large amount of data correlated, chronologically and with references supplied. A set of references for members to use for discussions in other threads.
From the topics started recently which only selected members may join, it seems to me that the inevitable discussions re new points are still obscuring the original topic - just as often happens on the 'open' topics.
Imo there is no need for these separate 'closed' discussion topics, there is a need for clear correlated data with references - without distracting discussions.
In the case of new data becoming available - the data bank could be adjusted by a moderator.
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Kiko [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] They have been listening to you. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Guest wrote:Gillyspot wrote:Stella wrote:Here is a chart listing Kate and Gerry's calls on the 3rd. Those highlighted in yellow represent calls at the same time.
GM KM 03-May 03-May 8.23 8.24 12.24 12.31 13.34 23.14 23.14 23.17 23.17 23.40 23.52
Have just been having a think. Graham Mackenzie another holidaymaker at the Ocean Club said overhead Gerry McCann between 10 and 11 pm on 3rd May 2007 speaking to a family member about Madeleine being taken by a paedophile, Yet according to the records he made no calls.
Could this be explained by Gerry deleting a call, or are the pings still recorded on the ping map, even after deleting a call ?
Could this also mean that Gerry was using someone elses phone?
I wish I was more knowledgeable about these things..
That's interesting. When he and Michael Wright or Jon Corner? were seen paddling amongst the rocks - looking for something, I did wonder if it might be a mobile phone which could not be traced to Gerry. Might be one explanation. They were using their mobiles I believe whilst there, trying to locate the one which was thrown in the sea the previous night?
Payne was on the beach that night. Gerry is said to have been there too.
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Phone Records and Analysis
Guest wrote:
GM KM JT FP RO RoB DP MO 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 8.23 8.24 10.52 11.33 12.24 12.31 13.34 20.30 22.45 22.45 22.45 22.51 22.51 22.58 22.58 22.59 22.59 23.00 23.00 23.05 23.05 23.06 23.06 23.14 23.14 23.17 23.17 23.24 23.24 23.40 23.52
What is interesting here, is that the Payne's never made any calls and just look at the phone pattern of the Oldfield's !!!
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
In the overall context the lack of traffic from the Payne’s is well, odd in the extreme. You’d think they’d find one person to call surely?
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
monkey mind wrote:In the overall context the lack of traffic from the Payne’s is well, odd in the extreme. You’d think they’d find one person to call surely?
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....
Note that DP and FP's times are identical. Were they communicating with each other? FP claimed that she stayed with KM while others went out searching.
So, did they have their phones with them during dinner or did they go back to their apartment to retrieve them?
If DP was out searching alone, per his statements, why did he need to keep calling FP?
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Guest wrote:Yes LG78, Gerry's call activity for the 1st must have been witheld by the PJ. Along with all the others for some strange reason. Let's hope Kiko has this information somewhere.LG78 wrote:Why arent there any overview of GM calls/sms made on May 1th? seems like Kate had a lot of calls that day...
GM KM 01-May 01-May 10.16 11.56 12.17 19.45 20.31 20.33 20.35 20.37 22.16 22.23 22.23 22.24 22.25 22.27
Appears Kate had her phone during dinner that night.
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
southern_gal wrote:Guest wrote:Yes LG78, Gerry's call activity for the 1st must have been witheld by the PJ. Along with all the others for some strange reason. Let's hope Kiko has this information somewhere.LG78 wrote:Why arent there any overview of GM calls/sms made on May 1th? seems like Kate had a lot of calls that day...
GM KM 01-May 01-May 10.16 11.56 12.17 19.45 20.31 20.33 20.35 20.37 22.16 22.23 22.23 22.24 22.25 22.27
Appears Kate had her phone during dinner that night.
What a crazy sequence!
The regularity, the frequency. Twice on 22.23. The brevity.
Indicative of lunacy, bedlam or pure panick? Where was that phone at the times given?
Did any independent person, let's say a waiter, see this sort of traffic during dinner?
And, jointly with the diary notes: did she have tennislessons and go running with a mobile phone held to her head? Washing the blinds? Going to the supermarket?
Come to think of it, was the so called visit to a supermarket an alibi for absence at dinner?
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Notice the six brief calls by K between 10.15pm and 10.30pm.
Coincidentally, in the fifteen minutes directly preceding that, between 10.00pm and 10.15pm, there were six equally brief calls bet Robert Murat and his girlfriend. Six calls from them, immediately followed by six calls from her.
Coincidentally, in the fifteen minutes directly preceding that, between 10.00pm and 10.15pm, there were six equally brief calls bet Robert Murat and his girlfriend. Six calls from them, immediately followed by six calls from her.
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
southern_gal wrote:monkey mind wrote:In the overall context the lack of traffic from the Payne’s is well, odd in the extreme. You’d think they’d find one person to call surely?
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....
Note that DP and FP's times are identical. Were they communicating with each other? FP claimed that she stayed with KM while others went out searching.
So, did they have their phones with them during dinner or did they go back to their apartment to retrieve them?
If DP was out searching alone, per his statements, why did he need to keep calling FP?
Southern Gal - I think, if you`re referring to DP and FP, they didn`t make any calls at all on the 3rd - aren`t they the pink columns?
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Tuesday the 1st was the evening Mrs. Fenn heard a child crying from 22.30 (abt when the news finished) until 23.45. So Kate was phoning or texting furiously just before that.
This was the night of Beltane and the moon was full in Scorpio ! Just sayin`. Also the night of the quizz and the nice quizz mistress, or was that Wed?
This was the night of Beltane and the moon was full in Scorpio ! Just sayin`. Also the night of the quizz and the nice quizz mistress, or was that Wed?
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Re: The tapas phone autopsy
Woofer wrote:southern_gal wrote:monkey mind wrote:In the overall context the lack of traffic from the Payne’s is well, odd in the extreme. You’d think they’d find one person to call surely?
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....
Note that DP and FP's times are identical. Were they communicating with each other? FP claimed that she stayed with KM while others went out searching.
So, did they have their phones with them during dinner or did they go back to their apartment to retrieve them?
If DP was out searching alone, per his statements, why did he need to keep calling FP?
Southern Gal - I think, if you`re referring to DP and FP, they didn`t make any calls at all on the 3rd - aren`t they the pink columns?
Dang it!! You're right. Sorry. I'm going back and forth in some of the older topics to refresh my memory about dates and times that the group have claimed in their timeline.
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» Monday April 30th - day 2
» Mitchell on PHONE HACKING - 'Someone tried to get details of my mobile 'phone account'
» Timeline and typology of abductors.
» did the Tapas nine go to the Tapas on the other days or just the 3rd may
» The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.
» Mitchell on PHONE HACKING - 'Someone tried to get details of my mobile 'phone account'
» Timeline and typology of abductors.
» did the Tapas nine go to the Tapas on the other days or just the 3rd may
» The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.
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