Re: Hiding in plain sight

by Paddingtom 08.08.24 7:54

I think I remember Gerry saying that MM cut her knee on the steps of the plane and that this was the explanation for any blood that might be in the flat.

I also think I remeber reading somewhere that KM had made a phone call to a friend who was more of a specialist in post mortemy type stuff...cant think of the proper term. You know, the traces left behind. The theory was was she was askimg for advice as to how to deal with it.....but, in fairness, I might have remembered that wrongly, its a bit vague now.

by Cake Lover 08.08.24 8:11

Madeleine did trip on her way up the air craft steps, that was recorded on video. If it caused a scratch which bled, Kate McCann didn't mention washing it out by hand. The trivia wasn't worth detailing until after Madeleine had died...

by Paddingtom 08.08.24 9:15

PeterMac wrote:
From Friday the Tapas all have lunch in the Payne’s apartment every day - as he unnecessarily emphasises - as they realise that Amaral and the PJ don’t believe them,
and that G and JT have fouled up the sighting of Tannerman, and they are on the brink of being caught.
Council of War, committee room 5H. 1400. daily
and I bet G ‘popped in’ whilst K was making sandwiches or baked beans for TWO

The facts are the same. Only the date has been moved by two days.
I believe it passes the Occam’s Razor test
Just a thought.

I have looked over the documents again and maintain that everyone is talking about the lunch arrrangements for 28th April - 3rd May. They are asked to describe what they did during the day water sports/jogging/tennis etc. The lunch arrangements are part of the daily routine for each day of that week.

It also occurs to me that it would be very odd for the police to ask for details of their lunch arrangements for the days after Madeleines disaoppearance was announced (thur) and not to ask for details of the lunch arrangements for the week leading up to the announcement. For me it is clear that these documents are only talking about the week of 28th - 3rd. I stand by what I have collated. It is for everyone to decide what they think the implications are.

by Paddingtom 08.08.24 12:15

Ive just remembered something that might help get things in perspective.

I had been looking ar Russ' statement for something else that I now cannot remeber, but noticed the comment about starting to have lunch at the Paynes after MM disappeared. I thought no more of it.

A couple of days later I saw Bernt's podcast and somewhere in that (Im sorry I havent got time to look for it now) Bernt mentioned the lunchtime and said something to the effect of "We know they all lunched at the Paynes all week....we know that".

I immediately thought, no thats not true, it was only after MM disappeared that they started lunching at the Paynes.

So I started looking at all the other statements and there it was, Bernt was absolutely right. Apart from Russ' statement.

Had Bernt's podcast been a week later, I would have forgotten about Russ' statement by then, Ive got the attention span of a goldfish. It was sheer luck that the two events were within a couple of days of each other otherwise I would never have noticed the alarm bells ringing.

just thought it was worth mentioning this as it shows that Bernt had already established that they all had lunch at the Paynes all week.

by AnneCGuedes 08.08.24 18:45

sandancer wrote:Main stream media are responsible for the majority of " myths " , made up stories that surround the disappearance of Madeline ! But hey isn't that what the media is for , muddy the waters as much as possible so no one is certain what is fact or fiction !

In the MC case, the myth began at around 11pm with the narrative told to the close ones that the child had been abducted through the jemmied window/shutters, and this was not invented by the media. Exactly the contrary occurred !

by Honesty 08.08.24 19:15

I see what you mean, Anne.

The way they have lied and changed their story from the outset beggars belief.

If all of this this wasn't so well documented and the evidence of this had not been so well preserved over the years, due to the McCanns love of publicity and desire to make money, I think most people would simply not believe that anyone could tell such unashamed, bare-faced lies to so many people for so many years.

Imo, they are a total disgrace.

by sandancer 08.08.24 23:34

AnneCGuedes wrote:
sandancer wrote:Main stream media are responsible for the majority of " myths " , made up stories that surround the disappearance of Madeline ! But hey isn't that what the media is for , muddy the waters as much as possible so no one is certain what is fact or fiction !

In the MC case, the myth began at around 11pm with the narrative told to the close ones that the child had been abducted through the jemmied window/shutters, and this was not invented by the media. Exactly the contrary occurred !

Yes the story told to family and friends by the parents of abduction , jemmied shutters , the police are doing nothing was then told to the media by those family and friends so the story was spread ! Not invented by the media but headlined as the truth ! And there are still people to this day 17 years later that believe it !

by pinkgladioli 09.08.24 8:10

Meanwhile it sounds like in Scotland Jill Renwick was phoning the McCann’s wider circle of friend’s
Below taken from a Guardian article entitled Key players in the McCann case (10 April 2008)

Jill Renwick, who has known the couple since they all worked together at a Glasgow hospital more than a decade ago, played an integral role in alerting the media of Madeleine’s disappearance early on. Renwick spoke to Kate at 7am on the morning after Madeleine vanished. She described the anguish of the missing girls mother as she pleaded for help, saying that they had been abandoned by searchers after scouring the resort all night, Renwick mobilised the McCann’s wider circle of friends. This led to phone calls to GMTV, the CID, defence secretary Des Browne and Newsnight presenter Kirsty Wark, she also stopped John Brown, brother of the Prime minister who lived on the same street as her and asked him to bring it to the PM’s attention.
The article was written after Gordon Brown had become PM in May 2007 he was Chancellor, so was Des Browne the Defence secretary involved in this case in any other way as well?
I’ve read that he was a Glasgow Celtic season ticket holder, with Gerry McCann previously being employed at Celtic Football Club is it’s possible there paths crossed
As for GMTV I wonder if there is a possibility the McCann’s or Gerry knew Martin Frizell and thats why he allowed the call to go through and be live on air
Over the years there seems to have been many interviews done with the McCann’s with the likes of Lorraine Kelly and her simpering pandering to the McCann’s narrative, I viewed one video clip yesterday when they showed in full screen mode the horrible make up image of poor Madeleine

by Cake Lover 09.08.24 9:25

How insulting to those who did go searching for Madeleine, who must know by now how they were used. That remark shows that the McCann pair started to cause trouble almost immediately.

by Paddingtom 09.08.24 10:30

Just had a bit of a thought which Im hoping shows that someone has some compassion somewhere.
It is my guess that the reason the police were interested in the lunch arrangements for the friends during the week 28th - 3rd, was because they were trying to pinpoint when MM was last seen. Lunch is an obvious time for everyone to get together.

I dont think GM was the matermind behind all this, I belive it was someone much much higher than that, but whoever it was, I think it was their idea to keep the friends away from the Mccanns at lunchtime.
It meant that should the friends be asked about MM's wherabouts at a later date they could genuinely, hand on heart say "we didnt see the Mccans at lunchtimes".

I would like to think it was a protection for the friends.
The cynics amongst us might say that the more you lie the more chance youre going to get caught out and that was the motive, but Im clinging onto the hope that someone had some compassion somewhere and was trying to protect the friends from more stress than they needed to be exposed to.

Im gonna duck now for fear of being hit by flying shrapnel!!

by Ladyinred 09.08.24 12:04

However, David Payne did admit seeing all three McCann children on Thursday evening, 3rd May.

by AnneCGuedes 09.08.24 13:11

sandancer wrote:
AnneCGuedes wrote:
sandancer wrote:Main stream media are responsible for the majority of " myths " , made up stories that surround the disappearance of Madeline ! But hey isn't that what the media is for , muddy the waters as much as possible so no one is certain what is fact or fiction !

In the MC case, the myth began at around 11pm with the narrative told to the close ones that the child had been abducted through the jemmied window/shutters, and this was not invented by the media. Exactly the contrary occurred !

Yes the story told to family and friends by the parents of abduction , jemmied shutters , the police are doing nothing was then told to the media by those family and friends so the story was spread ! Not invented by the media but headlined as the truth ! And there are still people to this day 17 years later that believe it !

Once a rumour (the abduction) is launched it is almost impossible to get rid of it. The more you try to deny it, the stronger it becomes. Individual denials reinforce it (see how John Hill's remark about the non-existence of signs of forced entry was interpreted), and the media which do not play their part in taking account of contradictory views become an extremely effective and pernicious echo chamber.

by AnneCGuedes 09.08.24 14:06

Honesty wrote:I see what you mean, Anne.

The way they have lied and changed their story from the outset beggars belief.

If all of this this wasn't so well documented and the evidence of this had not been so well preserved over the years, due to the McCanns love of publicity and desire to make money, I think most people would simply not believe that anyone could tell such unashamed, bare-faced lies to so many people for so many years.

Imo, they are a total disgrace.

Our societies are a disgrace. The MC's priority was to preserve their reputation, in other words, the way others saw them. Nobody said "stop", good or bad for them? British politicians and authorities were foolish enough to believe an implausible story. Then it was their reputation and credibility that had to be protected. At all costs, and if it were necessary to sacrifice the MCs, they would do so.

by The Rooster 09.08.24 15:31

Interesting reading, hi to all the forum members I've not logged in for a few years.

by Cake Lover 09.08.24 15:40

Hello Rooster.

by crusader 09.08.24 17:11

Hi Rooster, welcome back.

by Paddingtom 10.08.24 8:04

Ladyinred wrote:However, David Payne did admit seeing all three McCann children on Thursday evening, 3rd May.

Let us not forget that while he was admiring the three angels he did not notice what Kate was wearing.

Apparently she was soaking wet and wearing a towel. Any bloke with a pulse would notice that.

by sandancer 10.08.24 11:03

Let us also not forget , as has been mentioned many times before , who in all honesty would go for a shower leaving three toddlers alone in a room with an unlocked patio door which anyone could walk in through or they could walk out of ? Especially when she was expecting her husband back at any time ? Couldn't she wait ?

In a later statement , she had a bath when Gerry got back ! ?!?

by Cake Lover 10.08.24 11:19

What was she doing to necessitate two ablutions? Surely she didn't mess up telling a lie?

by crusader 10.08.24 12:05

Gerry never mentioned Payne going to see Kate in his statement 4th May, neither did Kate in her 4th May statement.
In Gerry's 10th May statement he said Payne went to see Kate and the Children.
He also said Payne visited 5a to check on the children on the night of Wednesday 2nd May and the patio was unlocked!
Payne said he didn't do any checking because he had a child monitor, so what was he doing checking 5a on Wednesday 2nd May.
I'm still of the thought that basically they are telling the truth about most things, I think they are slotting certain things into different day's to confuse things.

by Paddingtom 10.08.24 12:23

Apologies to all. Earlier I posted a comment saying that I had seen Bernt in his podcast saying that he was aware of the lunch arrangements at the Payne. I have rewatched the podcast and for the life of me I cannot find the item. It is very odd, because I would have put money on having seen it. Im obviously more scatty than I thought. Anyway, in the interests of honesty, I wanted to alert you to this error on my part and I would appreciate you disregarding the comment. Ideally I would like to delete it, but have been informed that is not possible. So, apologies again.

by Paddingtom 10.08.24 12:26

sandancer wrote:
In a later statement , she had a bath when Gerry got back ! ?!?

She obviously gets very mucky jogging all the time. so its nice to know that she likes to take personal care of herself

I seem to remeber in an old Beatles film they considered the main attribute of Pauls grandad was that he was very clean. Dont knock it.

by crusader 10.08.24 12:27

@Paddingtom wrote
Im obviously more scatty than I thought. Anyway, in the interests of honesty, I wanted to alert you to this error on my part and I would appreciate you disregarding the comment. Ideally I would like to delete it, but have been informed that is not possible. So, apologies again.

laugh