Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

by **HiDeHo** 15.06.16 14:38

Verdi wrote:It seems to me that rather than identifying concrete reasons for the alleged crying episodes and thus totally exonerating Pamela Fenn - all that's being put forward are hypothetical suggestions with absolutely no foundation and/or other trifling incidents with no particular impetus for moving this subject forward.

The witness statement of the GNR officer, Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa, taken on 16th May 2007 ..

When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying:

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

This is not a verbatim statement, it's been transcribed. Some woman - some women - a woman - a women, wrongly recorded perhaps? Think about it, 'Robert' would be more likely to say a/some woman phone him or he received calls from 1,2,3, 4 + women. Some women had phoned him, implies a group of woman all speaking at the same time during one call. Whichever, the fact remains that this is the only officially documented mention of a crying incident (outside of the Tapas group) prior to Pamela Fenn's witness statement taken in August 2007. Irrespective of how many women (note the gender) there is a strong indication here that the primary objective of 'Robert' was to promote a crying incident - that's the important issue as I see it.

Hard facts..

a) There is no official confirmation that Pamela Fenn reported the crying incident to the police until her witness statement in August 2007.

b) There is no official confirmation that Pamela Fenn reported the attempted burglary incident to the police until her witness statement in August 2007.

c) It's recorded in the witness statement of the GNR officer named above that 'Robert' telephone the Lagos post to tell of someone/s of female gender phoning him to tell of a crying incident.

In the words of Gerry McCann 'there is no evidence to prove...' Never was a truer word spoken by the Doctor.

Yes, I agree that all of the above are facts...but that does not translate to..

1) Pamela Fenn DID NOT report the crying incident to the police until her witness statement in August 2007

2) Pamela Fenn DID NOT report the attempted burglary incident to the police before her witness statement of August 2007

3) We do not know if it was Mrs Fenn that phoned Robert to tell him of a crying incident.

I do not like to dispute an issue that has had so much research and I always keep in mind that you may be correct, but I cannot come to the same conclusions with the info that I see.

I am trying hard to recognise the facts but I cannot claim something is a fact based on it being an omission and not known.

I am open to the possibility of Clarence coercing Mrs Fenn but I have to be truthful, I have found nothing yet that convinces me. Maybe it just takes me longer to understand what is glaring at me but unless it is factual I cannot claim it as fact.

Many people think that i claim that Maddie died earlier in the week... I have never said that...

Based on the last sighting being Sunday lunchtime and the discrepancies/efforts to cover something up starting Tuesday morning my logic tells me that something may have happened...and because the police and the dogs point to her death I also believe she died, but I have no idea WHEN she died...

I have no idea if she died Sunday or if something happened to her before Tuesday morning and she didn't die until Thursday...

I see no proof of WHEN she died...and have never presumed to know

Similar to where I stand with Mrs Fenn.

I see the proof (that we know) is that she told the police about the crying on August 20th

We DO NOT know if it was the first time she told them or that they may have been told by someone else...prior to the August 20th statement...

I cannot presume to know...

by Equity 15.06.16 15:23

dottyaussie wrote:As Skyrocket has pointed out

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

I think we need to remember that Murat and his mother were proving to be very 'helpful' at the time. Murat was handing over his phone number to anyone that he could and his mother had her information stand. These women could have been given Murat's phone number by either of these ways. So they didn't necessarily know him.

These women had already been interviewed by the police and the GNR officers statement was 16/5/07. So both of these things happened 3 months before the Mrs Fenn stories were coming out in the Press.

I too agree.

I think we have to be careful not to take the GNR Officer's statement out of context.

When I first read it I didn't think for one moment RM was referring to Mrs Fenn and THE 'crying incident' but simply informing the Officer he had been contacted by some women who heard a child crying in a nearby apartment.

This is obviously AFTER Madeleine's disappearance - the PJ are looking for a missing child - if I heard a child crying nearby I might report it to the police just in case (however unlikely) it was the missing child.

It shouldn't really become a 'forum fact' that RM was referring to Mrs Fenn :-( It's enough of a bloody puzzle as it is!

by **HiDeHo** 15.06.16 15:27

TURN DOWN VOLUME - CHILD CRYING may be disturbing to some...

by NickE 15.06.16 18:56

The alleged crying incident started at 22:30 according to Mrs Fenn´s statement.

Check this out.

Robert Murat started texting at 22:00 on 1/5-2007.
Kate´s phone activity started 2 minutes after Murat's had finished.

Murat pairs of SMS 22:00 at 1/5-2007 separated by: 1 min, 3 mins, 6 mins. Kate´s at 22:16 by 1 min, 3 mins, 7 mins and the last activity from Kate´s phone was at 22:28.
6 texts. Lasts 12+ mins. Ends 2 mins before "crying".

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Bottom line: Robert Murat´s activity:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

With thanks to "Kiko"

by **Tony Bennett** 15.06.16 19:40

NickE wrote:The alleged crying incident started at 22:30 according to Mrs Fenn´s statement.

Check this out.

Robert Murat started texting at 22:00 on 1/5-2007.
Kate´s phone activity started 2 minutes after Murat's had finished.

Murat pairs of SMS 22:00 at 1/5-2007 separated by: 1 min, 3 mins, 6 mins. Kate´s at 22:16 by 1 min, 3 mins, 7 mins and the last activity from Kate´s phone was at 22:28.
6 texts. Lasts 12+ mins. Ends 2 mins before "crying". [PICS SNIPPED]

With thanks to "Kiko"

Thank you.

Analysing this:

1. On the face of it, there is a possible connection between Murat's 6 calls over 14 minutes 10.00pm to 10.14pm and, two minutes later, Kate's 6 calls over 12 minutes between 10.16pm and 10.28pm.

2. That there is such a possible connection would be enhanced if we knew that some or all of Murat's 6 texts were sent to either Gerry or Kate McCann. Do we know this for sure? - I think we don't. If we don't know, Murat could have been texting anyone for all we know.

3. It is certainly possible that IF there was a 'crying incident', that it is related to one or both of these sets of 'phone calls.

CONCLUSION: In the absence of further information, we cannot establish either (1) a link between Murat's and Kate's texts or (2) any possible 'crying incident' with both or either set of 'phone calls.

So, 'a definite maybe' all round

by **Tony Bennett** 15.06.16 19:54

Equity wrote:
dottyaussie wrote:As Skyrocket has pointed out

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

I think we need to remember that Murat and his mother were proving to be very 'helpful' at the time. Murat was handing over his phone number to anyone that he could and his mother had her information stand. These women could have been given Murat's phone number by either of these ways. So they didn't necessarily know him.

These women had already been interviewed by the police and the GNR officers statement was 16/5/07. So both of these things happened 3 months before the Mrs Fenn stories were coming out in the Press.
I too agree.

I think we have to be careful not to take the GNR Officer's statement out of context.

When I first read it I didn't think for one moment RM was referring to Mrs Fenn and THE 'crying incident' but simply informing the Officer he had been contacted by some women who heard a child crying in a nearby apartment.

This is obviously AFTER Madeleine's disappearance - the PJ are looking for a missing child - if I heard a child crying nearby I might report it to the police just in case (however unlikely) it was the missing child.

It shouldn't really become a 'forum fact' that RM was referring to Mrs Fenn - It's enough of a bloody puzzle as it is!

I agree that it is not quite a 'fact' that Murat was referring to Mrs Fenn, but I consider it highly likely that he was.

Nor is it a fact that Murat had spoken to 'foreign women' rather than 'a foreign woman'.

I haven't seen any more credible explanation of the 'phone call which was made to the GNR officer by Murat.

In addition, 'women' rather than 'woman' could easily be either a mistranslation or simply a typo. If we have a certified Portuguese translator in the house who can help us, s much the better.

What we know is that Murat made that 'phone call to the GNR Officer, probably between 4 and 10 May.

During this conversation, he said, in terms:

"I've been speaking to some foreign woman (women if anyone prefers), who told me about a crying incident". Undoubtedly that was the same crying incident about which Mrs Fenn made a statement over 3 months later.

There is nothing whatsoever in the GNR's testimony to contradict my suggestion that Mrs Fenn had (already) been persuaded to make up a crying incident and that Murat was very keen (for whatever reason) to make sure the police knew about it.

In addition to all of that, I suggest that it is overwhelmingly likely that Mrs Fenn knew Mrs Murat and her son very well.

by dottyaussie 15.06.16 19:56

Tony Bennett wrote:

So, 'a definite maybe' all round

Oh Tony you do make me giggle sometimes big grin

by NickE 15.06.16 20:04

Tony Bennett wrote:
NickE wrote:The alleged crying incident started at 22:30 according to Mrs Fenn´s statement.

Check this out.

Robert Murat started texting at 22:00 on 1/5-2007.
Kate´s phone activity started 2 minutes after Murat's had finished.

Murat pairs of SMS 22:00 at 1/5-2007 separated by: 1 min, 3 mins, 6 mins. Kate´s at 22:16 by 1 min, 3 mins, 7 mins and the last activity from Kate´s phone was at 22:28.
6 texts. Lasts 12+ mins. Ends 2 mins before "crying". [PICS SNIPPED]

With thanks to "Kiko"
Thank you.

Analysing this:

1. On the face of it, there is a possible connection between Murat's 6 calls over 14 minutes 10.00pm to 10.14pm and, two minutes later, Kate's 6 calls over 12 minutes between 10.16pm and 10.28pm.

2. That there is such a possible connection would be enhanced if we knew that some or all of Murat's 6 texts were sent to either Gerry or Kate McCann. Do we know this for sure? - I think we don't. If we don't know, Murat could have been texting anyone for all we know.

3. It is certainly possible that IF there was a 'crying incident', that it is related to one or both of these sets of 'phone calls.

CONCLUSION: In the absence of further information, we cannot establish either (1) a link between Murat's and Kate's texts or (2) any possible 'crying incident' with both or either set of 'phone calls.

So, 'a definite maybe' all round

Thank you Tony.

Yes it´s "defintite maybe" but one thing do we know, for some reason did PJ witheld the critical link chart (Anexo 37) for Tuesday 1st May 2007.
It´s definite maybe and definite red flag.

by **Tony Bennett** 15.06.16 20:09

HiDeHo wrote:
Verdi wrote:It seems to me that rather than identifying concrete reasons for the alleged crying episodes and thus totally exonerating Pamela Fenn - all that's being put forward are hypothetical suggestions with absolutely no foundation and/or other trifling incidents with no particular impetus for moving this subject forward.

The witness statement of the GNR officer, Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa, taken on 16th May 2007 ..

When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying:

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

This is not a verbatim statement, it's been transcribed. Some woman - some women - a woman - a women, wrongly recorded perhaps? Think about it, 'Robert' would be more likely to say a/some woman phone him or he received calls from 1,2,3, 4 + women. Some women had phoned him, implies a group of woman all speaking at the same time during one call. Whichever, the fact remains that this is the only officially documented mention of a crying incident (outside of the Tapas group) prior to Pamela Fenn's witness statement taken in August 2007. Irrespective of how many women (note the gender) there is a strong indication here that the primary objective of 'Robert' was to promote a crying incident - that's the important issue as I see it.

Hard facts..

a) There is no official confirmation that Pamela Fenn reported the crying incident to the police until her witness statement in August 2007.

b) There is no official confirmation that Pamela Fenn reported the attempted burglary incident to the police until her witness statement in August 2007.

c) It's recorded in the witness statement of the GNR officer named above that 'Robert' telephone the Lagos post to tell of someone/s of female gender phoning him to tell of a crying incident.

In the words of Gerry McCann 'there is no evidence to prove...' Never was a truer word spoken by the Doctor.

Yes, I agree that all of the above are facts...but that does not translate to...

1) Pamela Fenn DID NOT report the crying incident to the police until her witness statement in August 2007

REPLY: It is a fact that we have zero evidence that she did

2) Pamela Fenn DID NOT report the attempted burglary incident to the police before her witness statement of August 2007

REPLY: Again, it is a fact that we have zero evidence that she did

3) We do not know if it was Mrs Fenn that phoned Robert to tell him of a crying incident.

REPLY: That seems by far the most likely possibility.

I am trying hard to recognise the facts but I cannot claim something is a fact based on it being an omission and not known. I am open to the possibility of Clarence coercing Mrs Fenn but I have to be truthful, I have found nothing yet that convinces me. Maybe it just takes me longer to understand what is glaring at me but unless it is factual I cannot claim it as fact.

REPLY: Once again, I must correct you in that I have not said anything like: 'Clarence coerced Mrs Fenn'. I repeat what I said before, namely that (a) I think that Mrs Fenn was cajoled/persuaded (not coerced) to come up with the tale of the 'crying incident' (and 'burglary') by certain people who THEN made sure that Mrs Fenn's evidence was placed in the newspapers - two days before she made her actual police statement.

Also, I am not aware of anyone on this thread who has claimed 'Clarence coercing Mrs Fenn' is a fact, certainly not me. I have always made clear that my suggestions are hypotheses and not facts, and no doubt we both agree that we must be guided by the evidence and not speculate. I simply suggest I have come up with a credible hypothesis to explain the alleged crying and burglary incidents, and in all honesty I have not (yet) seen a coherent alternative hypothesis that attempts to deal with the known facts about both alleged incidents.

I see the proof (that we know) is that she told the police about the crying on August 20th.

REPLY: Yes. One of relatively few facts we can rely on 100%

We DO NOT know if it was the first time she told them or that they may have been told by someone else...prior to the August 20th statement...

REPLY: We are at one on that. But on balance, the circumstantial evidence IMO suggests she did NOT report any 75-minute crying incident to the police until, possibly by 'phone, in the days immediately prior to 20 August

I cannot presume to know...

by **HiDeHo** 15.06.16 20:15

Tony Bennett wrote:
NickE wrote:The alleged crying incident started at 22:30 according to Mrs Fenn´s statement.

Check this out.

Robert Murat started texting at 22:00 on 1/5-2007.
Kate´s phone activity started 2 minutes after Murat's had finished.

Murat pairs of SMS 22:00 at 1/5-2007 separated by: 1 min, 3 mins, 6 mins. Kate´s at 22:16 by 1 min, 3 mins, 7 mins and the last activity from Kate´s phone was at 22:28.
6 texts. Lasts 12+ mins. Ends 2 mins before "crying". [PICS SNIPPED]

With thanks to "Kiko"
Thank you.

Analysing this:

1. On the face of it, there is a possible connection between Murat's 6 calls over 14 minutes 10.00pm to 10.14pm and, two minutes later, Kate's 6 calls over 12 minutes between 10.16pm and 10.28pm.

2. That there is such a possible connection would be enhanced if we knew that some or all of Murat's 6 texts were sent to either Gerry or Kate McCann. Do we know this for sure? - I think we don't. If we don't know, Murat could have been texting anyone for all we know.

3. It is certainly possible that IF there was a 'crying incident', that it is related to one or both of these sets of 'phone calls.

CONCLUSION: In the absence of further information, we cannot establish either (1) a link between Murat's and Kate's texts or (2) any possible 'crying incident' with both or either set of 'phone calls.

So, 'a definite maybe' all round

I agree and thank you NickE (and Kiko) for that info...

I really know very little about Robert Murat and even less about the phone records but maybe I could ask a couple of questions...

1) Are Kate or Gerry's (or Tapas 7) phone numbers listed on Robert Murat phone?

I see a list but don't believe they show http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

2) In the list of phone calls is there any way of seeing if a 'woman' phoned him at some time before May 16th? (possibly a 'one off' number? - I haven't yet found an understandable recording of phone calls :)

3) I have heard about a 'rush' back to Portugal on May 1st and a call at the same time as Kate? Is that correct? If so, are they known to be connected or a coincidence?

4) In the comment by Gerry where he is asked if he knows Murat, I have always taken that as avoiding the question to give the impression he may know him to 'help' the fact that Fiona Rachael and Russell claim to have seen him and therefore to implicate him indirectly. Is that possible or do I have it all wrong?

Sorry...heading off topic but basically I would be interested if there is a way of finding out if a 'random' caller to his phone was the possible 'woman' that phoned him about crying

Probably n luck on that one

by **HiDeHo** 15.06.16 20:23

I would like to make something clear here...but before I do, I apologise Tony if I said anything about what has been claimed and I was wrong.. (my mind running away again)

I am always open to the possibility but I wrongly assumed you believed it to be 'accepted' as a fact.

Regarding the intruder, I have not focused on the details and the news reports and certainly they seemed to come from mainly UK based sources (as well as Portuguese)

Was this something possibly contrived by TM?...I don't know. I haven't researched so I leave that open as a possibility.

NEWSPAPERS REPORTING ONLY ON INTRUDER

August 18th 2007 - Telegraph

August 18th 2007 - Mirror

August 20th 2007 - Express

August 20th 2007 - Daily Mail

August 20th 2007 - Mirror

August 20th 2007 - Telegraph

August 20th 2007 - Star

August 20th 2007 - Sun

August 21st 2007 - Express

August 21st 2007 - Star

August 21st 2007 - Times

September 13th 2007 - People

September 14th 2007 - Mail

Regarding the crying..

If it was possibly contrived by TM then why was it only reported in Portuguese papers and the Express (whether the info was from Portugal or Mrs Fenn's friend that he spoke to on Friday 17th?)

Surely TM would not have been able to influence Portuguese newspapers?

It seems the CRYING INCIDENT was reported ONLY by Portuguese media and Express (who claimed they were given their info from Portuguese journalists with connections to the police.)

LIST OF NEWSPAPERS CLAIMING ABOUT CRYING INCIDENT (AND INTRUDER)

August 18th 2007 - Sol

August 18th 2007 - Express (Many quotes from a friend of Mrs Fenn (not Edna Glen)

August 19th 2007 - Journal de Noticias

August 20th 2007 - Journal de Noticias

August 20th 2007 - Journal de Noticias

August 23rd 2007 - Express

August 23rd 2007 - Portugal Resident

August 24th 2007 - Correio da Manhã

August 30th 2007 - Express

September 7th 2007 - Journal de Noticias

September 10th 2007 - Correio da Manhã

September 13th 2007 - Daily Mail

September 23rd 2007 - Mirror

October 30th 2007 - Express

Could someone explain to me why it was only the PT news that reported the crying (except Express) and why, if it was maybe 'encouraged' by TM, was it not in the UK news reports that only mentioned about the intruder?

Have I missed some news reports?

The only other reports of the crying that I could find, were by Daily Mail (who claimed more reports by others) and Daily Mirror in mid to late September.

I want to be able to support a much researched issue but I need to see the facts fit unless it is a theory that may have possibly happened but not proven which of course would be something I would keep in mind.

I have many thoughts on PT media reports that may be credible but not confirmed. I could never push aside a possibility unless it was proven to be wrong.

by kaz 15.06.16 20:53

I'm having difficulty in understanding WHY Clarence Mitchell would cajole/ persuade Mrs Fenn to report a crying incident .
Wouldn't the fact that the crying continued for well over an hour before Mrs Fenn heard the McCanns return to the apartment blow a huge hole in their story of regular checking? What had they to gain from a fictitious story that made them appear even MORE negligent ...............................and liars to boot? Still can't buy it unless someone can provide a plausible reason.

by **Tony Bennett** 15.06.16 20:54

HiDeHo wrote:
sharonl wrote:Regardless of whether or not the crying incident really did occur, and whether there was such a telephone call that night, Murat phoned the Lagos post and told them that a foreign woman had called him to tell him that a child was crying in an apartment near her. This all allegedly took place late evening on the 1st or 2nd of May.

1. Why would Mrs Fenn phone Robert Murat to say that a child was crying?
2.  Why Robert Murat? What could he possibly do about a crying child that he didn't know?
3. Did Mrs Fenn already know Robert Murat?
4. To call someone that late at night you would need to be well acquainted with them.
5.  If this is true, then Mrs Fenn must have been friendly enough with Murat to have had his telephone number
6.  If Mrs Fenn and Murat were such good friends, or so well acquainted prior to May 3rd, that also raises suspicion.

So Murat, is really telling us that he and Mrs Fenn were known to each other prior to May 3rd, well enough for her to have his telephone number and to call him late at night to chat about a child crying.

I'm having trouble presuming it was Mrs Fenn...She had two friends (at least) that (supposedly) knew about the crying... Edna Glyn and the friend that David Pilditch spoke to on August 17th (in preparation for his August 18th article when it was apparent that someone? (McCanns) may be charged.

REPLY: No, with highest respect @ Hideho, we can't say that. First of all, OK, she says she has a friend, Mrs Glyn, but has she? What do we know about Mrs Glyn? Nothing. Where does she live? We don't know. What corroboration do we have of the alleged 'phone call to Mrs Glyn? None whatsoever. But for the moment, let's count Mrs Fenn as her friend. The second friend, you say, is this:

"A friend of Mrs Fenn told The Daily Express last night: 'She is an elderly lady who is quite nervous and was very shaken up after the break-in...'" [SNIPPED]

Now, who is this 'friend of Mrs Fenn'? If we turn our minds back to the thousands of articles about Madeleine McCann, how many times have we read 'A friend of the McCanns' or 'A family pal' or 'A McCanns' friend said...' and we just know it is Clarence Mitchell. Same here. If you look at all that this friend is supposed to have said to David Pilditch, it looks just like the sort of thing that Mitchell would say to a journalist. If not Mitchell or someone close to him, it still looks to me as if this 'friend' is some kind of professional speaking to Pilditch and not just some ordinary friend of Mrs Fenn

Do we know the date of the phone call and the time?

REPLY: On the information provided by the GNR Officer, probably between 4 and 10 May

Do we know the date of the crying? Was it before or after the disappearance or was it in progress during the call (doubtful). 'An apartment near to them'?

REPLY: To my mind, it all points to Mrs Fenn. Who else do we know reported a 'crying incident'? No-one.

Could it have been someone that called him as she knew he was the 'translator' and got his number from (who knows... a friend of Mrs Murat?) I'm afraid although its easy to presume its Mrs Fenn there's nothing specific to say it couldn't have been one of her friends...and she knew he could translate and get the info to the police...which he did (apparently)

OR it could have been Mrs Fenn...

REPLY: If we're looking at probabilities, and not rock hard certainties, then I suggest it's overwhelmingly probable that Murat was telling to GNR about Mrs Fenn. I also suggest that he knew Mrs Fenn and had quite possibly discussed the alleged crying incident with her - but didn't want to admit this so used the clumsy phrase 'some foreign woman'.

Only a suggestion/hypothesis, @ HideHo. Not a fact

by skyrocket 15.06.16 21:06

I suspect I'm being overly pedantic but there is no question of a typo or mis-translation from the Portuguese statement.

The Portuguese version starts:

'Que umas senhoras estrangeiras ...'

i.e. 'That some foreign women...'

The Portuguese contains 3 plural words, all ending in 's'. We don't need a Portuguese speaker to translate - it is a simple translation. Knock all 3 s's off and the phrase would read 'that some foreign woman', but that is not what it says.

Also, the end of the English sentence, 'near to them' confirms that the subjects is plural not singular, which would read 'near to her', but again, it doesn't.

Sorry, but it is what it is.

by **Tony Bennett** 15.06.16 21:18

HiDeHo wrote:I would like to make something clear here...but before I do, I apologise Tony if I said anything about what has been claimed and I was wrong.. (my mind running away again). I am always open to the possibility but I wrongly assumed you believed it to be 'accepted' as a fact.

REPLY: I try to distinguish between 'fact' and 'hypothesis

Regarding the intruder, I have not focused on the details and the news reports and certainly they seemed to come from mainly UK based sources (as well as Portuguese). Was this something possibly contrived by TM?...I don't know. I haven't researched so I leave that open as a possibility.

NEWSPAPERS REPORTING ONLY ON INTRUDER

August 18th 2007 - Telegraph

August 18th 2007 - Mirror

August 20th 2007 - Express

August 20th 2007 - Daily Mail

August 20th 2007 - Mirror

August 20th 2007 - Telegraph

August 20th 2007 - Star

August 20th 2007 - Sun

August 21st 2007 - Express

August 21st 2007 - Star

August 21st 2007 - Times

September 13th 2007 - People

September 14th 2007 - Mail

Regarding the crying..

If it was possibly contrived by TM then why was it only reported in Portuguese papers and the Express (whether the info was from Portugal or Mrs Fenn's friend that he spoke to on Friday 17th?)

Surely TM would not have been able to influence Portuguese newspapers?

It seems the CRYING INCIDENT was reported ONLY by Portuguese media and Express (who claimed they were given their info from Portuguese journalists with connections to the police.)

LIST OF NEWSPAPERS CLAIMING ABOUT CRYING INCIDENT (AND INTRUDER)

August 18th 2007 - Sol

August 18th 2007 - Express (Many quotes from a friend of Mrs Fenn (not Edna Glen)

August 19th 2007 - Journal de Noticias

August 20th 2007 - Journal de Noticias

August 20th 2007 - Journal de Noticias

August 23rd 2007 - Express

August 23rd 2007 - Portugal Resident

August 24th 2007 - Correio da Manhã

August 30th 2007 - Express

September 7th 2007 - Journal de Noticias

September 10th 2007 - Correio da Manhã

September 13th 2007 - Daily Mail

September 23rd 2007 - Mirror

October 30th 2007 - Express

Could someone explain to me why it was only the PT news that reported the crying (except Express) and why, if it was maybe 'encouraged' by TM, was it not in the UK news reports that only mentioned about the intruder?

Have I missed some news reports?

The only other reports of the crying that I could find, were by Daily Mail (who claimed more reports by others) and Daily Mirror in mid to late September.

I want to be able to support a much researched issue but I need to see the facts fit unless it is a theory that may have possibly happened but not proven which of course would be something I would keep in mind.

I have many thoughts on PT media reports that may be credible but not confirmed. I could never push aside a possibility unless it was proven to be wrong.

If I may say so, this is a very worthwhile and interesting piece of research, thank you.

You asked: "Could someone explain to me why it was only the PT news that reported the crying (except Express) and why, if it was maybe 'encouraged' by TM, was it not in the UK news reports that only mentioned about the intruder?"

REPLY: I freely admit I cannot.

The fact that the crying incident was left out of the first 13 articles you list is a curiosity I cannot account for.

To that I would add that if you look at the history of the myriad articles which have clearly been placed in the media by Clarence Mitchell, he has a number of modus operandi.

Sometimes he gives and 'exclsuive' to one paper.

Sometimes he gives a story to just two papers.

Sometimes he releases a statement to them all.

Sometimes he calls a press conference/call.

I would say however that there is no reason in principle why he - and/or any sidekick of his - could not have contacted both Sol and the Express about the crying incident and given them a joint 'exclusive'.

But let me get at things this way.

For Sol and the Express to have run the pretty dramatic story of the crying incident, Mrs Fenn must have spoken to someone and conveyed to them (a) when he was going to make a statement and (b) what she was going to say in it. On that I am sure we can agree.

The question is to whom?

Is not the case that someone other than Mrs Fenn has briefed these two newspapers? Can we agree on that.

Now, up to now, I have considered it more likely that this was someone from Team McCann.

Your theory I think is that Mrs Fenn spoke to a Portguese Police Officer. Pilditch's report would support you in that he claims to have been briefed by both 'a Portuguese Police source' and 'a police source'.

I just cannot see how a Portuguese Police source would help to produce an article like Pilditch's which is crammed full of praise for the wonderful British police and brickbats for the incompetent Portuguese police. Can you?

Moreover - and this is important - who gave Pilditch all the Carol Tranmer info? Do you say that was a Portuguese police source? That seems unlikely. All of the Tranmer stuff looks to me like it's come from the McCann side.

I genuinely want to know

1. To whom Mrs Fenn spoke (before 20 August) and

2. Who really briefed Pilditch?

If anyone else can help us answer these questions, I would be grateful

by Verdi 15.06.16 21:44

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote: I think we have to be careful not to take the GNR Officer's statement out of context.

The GNR's statement will not be taken out of context as long as it's recognized that the focus is, or should be, that someone by the name of 'Robert' telephoned the Lagos post to report a call he had received concerning an incident of crying, allegedly heard by an unnamed source in an apartment nearby.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote: It shouldn't really become a 'forum fact' that RM was referring to Mrs Fenn.

I don't believe anyone on this forum has stated this as fact. The implications however are powerful enough to consider it as a distinct possibility in the absence of any other officially documented report relating to a crying child.

by **Tony Bennett** 15.06.16 21:57

plebgate wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
plebgate wrote:aw Tony, not criticisms of you but debate to try and work this puzzle out.

If Murat was "working" for TM and Mrs. Fenn was primed beforehand but forgot,

REPLY: It is possible that she was 'primed' but when questioned by police immediately following Madeleine's reported disappearance simply decided to tell them nothing

When would she have been primed and wouldn't that have made her part of some "plot". Why would she agree to become involved in any "plot" involving the disappearance of a little girl?

it seems to me a rather odd that Murat should then be pointed out by Tanner and wasn't Mrs. reported as saying she believed Murat might know something or words to that effect?

REPLY: Very true, and as I've pointed out many a time, the McCann Team made a concerted effort to 'frame' Murat, including not only the points you've made, but also of course Fiona Payne, Russell O'Brien and Rachael Oldfield all rushing off to the police the moment Murat was arrested and claiming they'd seen Murat hovering around the Ocean Club on the evening of 3rd May. Behind the scenes, the British police and secret services were also briefing Amaral and his team that Murat fitted the profile of the likely abductor '90%' and then of course Clarence Mitchell's media pal Lori Campbell was also pointing a media finger at Murat. I say this was a concerted 'plot' to frame Murat - and I've repeated that for many years.

Two explanations could fit the known facts IMO:

1. Murat was not only hired by the McCann Team to translate the PJ interviews, and maybe get up to other things on 1st ,2nd and 3rd May, but also to act as the 'Fall Guy', and take suspicion away from the McCanns.

Possible but very risky business why would he do that and how would he know that Mrs. Fenn wouldn't blab that she had been asked to become involved in some sort of plot?

OR

2. He was hired to do some work before the alarm was raised, hired to do the PJ translations, but was then double-crossed. If that hypothesis is correct, that would in turn provide Martin Smith, who certainly knew Murat, with a rational explanation for his suddenly producing 'Smithman' the day after Murat was made a suspect. It would also explain the high-level 'summit meeting' at the Eveleighs' villa on 13 November 2007 when the Murat Team and the McCann Team confronted each other

Again possible but who was paying him? We have been told Mr. & Mrs. had no money and double crossing him would have been very risky as they would not have known he wouldn't tell the whole story of being hired and bringing Mrs. Fenn into the plot as well.

Why bring Mrs Glyn into it? I know this has not been confirmed but I believe Mrs. Fenn did phone her as she had no way of knowing whether the police would confirm this was true or not.

REPLY: We have no corroboration whatsoever about any Mrs Edna Glyn. Who exactly was she? Was she really 'phoned? At 11pm at night? - well after most elderly people have gone to bed? Did she say just 'I am not surprised?' Nothing else? Were both women willing to do nothing about a child sobbing relentlessly for 75 solid minutes? Where did Mrs Glyn live? In Praia da Luz? Or England?

We know nothing of Mrs. Glyn, but the police would have been able to contact her to confirm what Mrs. Fenn had said.   Would Mrs. Fenn really have taken such a risk and been questioned as to why she would say it happened when it had not? Mrs. Fenn was up at 11pm so why wouldn't her friend be?

edited to add - there seem a heck of a lot of reports of crying if no such event took place. What a puzzle indeed.

REPLY: Yes, we now have

* Mrs Fenn saying she heard crying and 'phoned Mrs Glyn - 1 May
* McCanns talking to Fiona and Jane about the crying incident on 3 May
* Both McCanns making sure the police knew about the crying incident on 4 May
* 'It was the twins'
* 'It was Madeleine'
* 'It was Madeleine and Sean'
* 'It was Amelie on Wednesday'
* 'It was Amelie on Wednesday and Madeleine and Sean on Thursday'
* Murat 'phoning a GNR officer saying 'a foreign woman rang me up about a crying incident' (or foreign women as per 'skyrocket')
* The press on 18 August saying Mrs Fenn was going to give a statement about a crying incident
* Mrs Fenn making a statement on 20 August...

...but then...

...but then, after all this, Mrs Fenn telling the world on camera: "It's all rubbish...please ignore it"
REf. red highlighting - this has already been covered in thread several times.

@ plebgate

When would she have been primed and wouldn't that have made her part of some "plot". Why would she agree to become involved in any "plot" involving the disappearance of a little girl?

REPLY: Now that we have on the thread the fascinating call from Murat to the GNR officer, which seems to be an attempt as far as I can see to put Mrs Fenn's 'crying incident' on the police record, I think Mrs Fenn may have been approached about this evidence - by Murat - sometime on 2 or 3 May. The McCanns were clearly determined to mention this when first interviewed. I am not sure, but isn't this right? - that Murat probably knew from his translation work that the McCanns had given evidence about a crying incident. If so, why would he ring the GNR about one? Was it because he was on a mission to make sure that a crying incident (on 1st or 2nd May) had occurred?

As to motive, I do not say that Mrs Fenn might have been fully involved in a plot, but I can see how she might have been 'persuaded' to help. Murat is all over this story from 1 May onwards. He was called over. He lied about his movements. He and Martin Smith clearly knew each other. Did he know Mrs Fenn already? - highly likely, his mother certainly did. Who else did Murat know? Did he know serial paedophile Sir Clement Freud, or McCanns' co-ordinating solicitor Edward Smethurst, both of whom spent time in Praia da Luz each year? What was Murat up to that week? Why were hairs of his and Jane Tanner's haplotype both found at the place Krokowski was staying? Who arranged for Nuno Lourenco to lie about an alleged kidnapping, to take a photo of Krokowski's hired car, and frame him on the morning of 5 May? Murat? Did Murat also ask a favour of Mrs Fenn that week?

Finally, I acknowledge the theory that Mrs Fenn had already reported the crying, and that the McCanns knew about it, and that that's why they had to pre-empt this by 'confessing' a crying incident to the PJ on 4 May. I simply have to say that I am not at all convinced by that explanation

Possible but very risky business why would he do that and how would he know that Mrs. Fenn wouldn't blab that she had been asked to become involved in some sort of plot?

REPLY: It wouldn't be the first time that someone had agreed to be a 'fall guy'. It depends very much on exactly what was being covered up, when it happened, where loyalties lay. If Mrs Fenn and the Murats knew each other well, he would hardly be taking a great risk,

Again possible but who was paying him? We have been told Mr. & Mrs. had no money and double crossing him would have been very risky as they would not have known he wouldn't tell the whole story of being hired and bringing Mrs. Fenn into the plot as well.

REPLY: To answer this, we need to know who Murat might have been working for. I think we need to look in the direction of folk like Special Branch and MI5, not the McCanns alone. Was Murat a security asset for example? He got £600,000 or more in the end, so he did all right financially. I think he flew out to Praia da Luz on a mission, and expected to be paid. Whether or not he was a willing patsy or whether he was double-crossed I don't know, but it looks as though that clandestine meeting on 13 November 2007 at the Eveleighs probably sorted everything out, including the path towards his 60k winnings in the British libel courts

We know nothing of Mrs. Glyn, but the police would have been able to contact her to confirm what Mrs. Fenn had said.   Would Mrs. Fenn really have taken such a risk and been questioned as to why she would say it happened when it had not? Mrs. Fenn was up at 11pm so why wouldn't her friend be?

REPLY: Old people in their 80s are not usually up and about at 11.00pm, still less at 11.45pm. On my analysis, I do not think that Mrs Fenn actually did say anything about the crying incident or Mrs Glyn until 20 August, when to my mind she was probably cajoled to make a formal statement. I concede of course that, by then, Mrs Glyn might have said 'I can't remember a late night 'phone call from Mrs Fenn'. I doubt the police would have returned to cross-examine her about it

by Richard IV 15.06.16 22:32

All these questions re RM `why would he do that?`, `was he being paid?`, `why would he not grass?` etc.

There`s something I`ve never forgotten and always thought weird. That is how supportive JG of CEOP was to the Mcs.

Maybe said person had a hold over him (and others), they all having been on the Op Ore list of various men having been caught out.

All said as a possibility.

by **Tony Bennett** 15.06.16 23:59

skyrocket wrote:I suspect I'm being overly pedantic but there is no question of a typo or mis-translation from the Portuguese statement.

The Portuguese version starts:

'Que umas senhoras estrangeiras ...'

i.e. 'That some foreign women...'

The Portuguese contains 3 plural words, all ending in 's'. We don't need a Portuguese speaker to translate - it is a simple translation. Knock all 3 s's off and the phrase would read 'that some foreign woman', but that is not what it says.

Also, the end of the English sentence, 'near to them' confirms that the subjects is plural not singular, which would read 'near to her', but again, it doesn't.

Sorry, but it is what it is.

I will accept this, of course.

I revise my hypothesis to suggest that Murat meant Mrs Fenn and one or more other women.

by **Tony Bennett** 16.06.16 0:08

One more Mrs Fenn conundrum:

REPORT 1

The reports also quoted witnesses who have given statements to police.

Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and ‘out of control’ in the room below.

She claimed that "the little girl's screams calling for her Daddy were very audible".

Another witness is quoted as saying that Mrs McCann "seemed to have moments of aggressiveness towards her children" and that her husband, "though more absent, had more emotional control".

Mrs Fenn believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and out of control

Mrs Fenn says the girl's screams were 'very audible'

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOW, REPORT 2

Tot's screams 'a myth' Sunday Mirror

THE SEARCH FOR MADELEINE DAY 143

By Grant Hodgson
23/09/2007

A key witness in the Madeleine McCann case yesterday DENIED telling cops that she heard the family screaming and arguing.

Pamela Fenn, 81, who lives above the Praia da Luz apartment Madeleine vanished from, supposedly said she heard the four-year-old "scream for four hours" the night before. The reports fuelled police theories that Mum Kate sedated Madeleine. But widow Mrs Fenn, interviewed by police two days after Madeleine disappeared, said: "I never heard her screaming or Kate and Gerry arguing.

"I didn't realise anything was wrong until I heard all sorts of commotion outside."

Mrs Fenn never heard a child screaming.

Mrs Fenn never heard Kate and Gerry arguing.

by Verdi 16.06.16 0:52

Removing all the clutter and trying to look at this situation simplistically what is left - a widowed octogenarian living alone in an apartment in PdL with a tale to tell, a tale of a crying child and an attempted burglary the week prior.

If we follow the consensus of opinion that Mrs Fenn had reported one or both incidents, officially or unofficially, prior to giving a formal witness statement in August 2007 - why was this formal interview deemed necessary by the PJ. The story being run in the UK press the week prior said that developments within the investigation demanded that certain individuals be formally interviewed but where exactly does Pamela Fenn fit in here. If she had already reported a crying incident said to have been on the night of Tuesday 1st May 2007 and a previous attempted burglary at her apartment - what could she possibly add that would service the investigation?

Following inspection by the specialist dogs Eddie and Kella, the preliminary forensic reports had already been presented to the PJ, as a result the investigation was gaining speed with evidence to implicate the McCann parents. So again I ask, at this stage of the investigation, what could be gained by the PJ formally interviewing Pamela Fenn if her evidence had already been reported? It's not as though it added any value to the investigation so why put an eighty + year old woman through the traumatic experience of a formal interview when the PJ are already aware of a prior testimony? Why did she so readily attend the interview at the station rather than tell them she has nothing further to add - if she'd previously reported one or both incidents? Judging by her witness statement taken in August 2007 she didn't have any further information to add.

Did she offer her services for some reason? Could that be why she was officially interviewed? It might explain how the press knew the content of her interview the weekend before.

by Equity 16.06.16 12:02

Verdi wrote:Snipped...

So again I ask, at this stage of the investigation, what could be gained by the PJ formally interviewing Pamela Fenn if her evidence had already been reported? It's not as though it added any value to the investigation so why put an eighty + year old woman through the traumatic experience of a formal interview when the PJ are already aware of a prior testimony? Why did she so readily attend the interview at the station rather than tell them she has nothing further to add - if she'd previously reported one or both incidents? Judging by her witness statement taken in August 2007 she didn't have any further information to add.

Mrs Fenn may have spoken to GNR officers. I think under the Portuguese system, a witness cannot give evidence in court unless they have been formally interviewed by the PJ and their statement added to the process. It is only when the McCann's became potential suspects that the need arose to make Mrs Fenn an official witness.

NB I'm not that au fait with the Portuguese legal system, but I'm sure others can confirm there is a simple explanation for why she was interviewed when she was and not a nefarious one.

by **Tony Bennett** 16.06.16 14:24

A FULL REPLY TO HIDEHO - PART 1

My replies in blue

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HideHo wrote: I do not like to disagree with someone's theory unless I have studied it, not to disprove but to see if I can support it. I'm not looking to be right...I just want the truth.

For this reason I spent a considerable amount of time studying the press reports around August 18th to see if I could see when, how and why it would happen that TM could coerce Mrs Fenn prior to her August 20th statement.

I was, of course taking info from media but often quotes are used and these within the media reports cannot be ignored. Here is what I found... RED HIGHLIGHTS ARE QUOTES.

I was looking at where the info came from and if from the Portuguese press then that would have unlikely been from TM. Unfortunately, although the front pages are available I cannot find many of the PT articles except this one...Sol seem to have spoken to Mrs Fenn Friday 17th or before.

REPLY: I think the main questions in my mind are: 1. What, or who, prompted Mrs Fenn to make an appointment with the PJ in Portimao on 20 Monday 20 August, and 2. Who supplied all the information to the Portuguese and British press.

==========

Sol paper edition, August 18 2007:

New contradictions in Maddie’s case

by Felicia Cabrita, with Margarida Davim

Translation by summer

The English started by saying they took turns every 15 minutes in order to, through the windows of the rooms where the children were sleeping, listen if anything abnormal was happening. This ‘vigilance’ system, which they assure was efficient throughout a week of holidays, is questioned by an English citizen who lives in the apartment above the one that was occupied by Kate and Gerry McCann.

Senn (sic) told Sol that, on the night before she disappeared, Maddie cried for quite some time, calling out ‘Daddy, Daddy!’

REPLY: On the face of it, this tells us that Sol spoke to Mrs Fenn directly. If so, that must have been on or before Friday 17 August. I cannot however take this as absolute proof that there was a direct conversation between a Sol reporter and Mrs Fenn.

--------------------------------------------

The first reports seem to have come from the Express that include a lot of interesting comments...

WIDOW WITH VITAL CLUES WAS NEVER QUESTIONED

BRAVERY: Mrs Fenn challenged intruder

Saturday August 18,2007
by David Pilditch in Praia da Luz

A British widow has come forward with new information which could help Portuguese detectives solve the mystery of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance, the Daily Express can reveal.

REPLY: I see that David Pilditch was in Praia da Luz at the time. From this I draw the inference that the story may have been given directly to reporters based in Praia da Luz and not to reporters in London. But maybe both happened.

Ex-pat Pamela Fenn, who is in her 70’s, has told police she has three ‘bombshell’ clues she believes could be vital to the inquiry.

REPLY: Again, on the face of it, we are now told that Mrs Fenn has already (a) spoken to the police and (b) spoken to Sol.

In the weeks before Madeleine disappeared Mrs Fenn scared off an intruder who had apparently let himself into her apartment with a key.

REPLY: ‘In the weeks before’ – vague, and rather contrary to Mrs Fenn’s ‘the week before’. No date has ever been given for this alleged burglary.

It was one of a series of similar crimes reported to Portuguese police.

REPLY: Was it really? What evidence, if any, do we have of this?

In a second development Mrs Fenn’s niece reported seeing a man who matched the description of a suspect peering into the McCanns’ holiday apartment around the time Madeleine went missing.

REPLY: That’s Carol Tranmer (not named in the article for some reason). The man allegedly seen by Carol Tranmer was described by her – in her rogatory interview over a year later, as, (quotes from her statement):

not short, I would say about 178cm [NOTE: probably a translation from 5’ 10”], medium height, average stature,
blonde hair
with a lot of hair, very short…a style close to shaven
the head was very sculptured, more oval-shaped
he had big eyes, ‘even though I was looking upwards’ (?)
wearing a blue-grey T-shirt, not dark blue, more of a pallid colour, with short sleeves, a ‘common’ T-shirt
I saw no trousers or shoes or anything else
European but not Portuguese, not dark, I would say that he looked Scandinavian, he was very light, could have been British or Scandinavian, not dark, nor bronzed from the sun, a light colour, not white
no freckles
a ‘person of common appearance’, ‘ordinary looking’
aged between 30 and 35
furtive

So far as I am aware, we do not have the statement she made back in England about this on 8 May, so we don’t know what description of the man she gave on that occasion.

It is a detailed description which, as some have noted on the thread to date, is in many respects the polar opposite of Jane Tamnner’s description.

Let me carefully review the descriptions given by Jane Tanner of ‘Tannerman’ and Carol Tranmer of ‘Tranmerman’.

Gerry McCann told us on 25 May 2007, in front of the world’s press, that the man (based on Jane Tanner’s description, but we did not know that at the time) was:

“White, aged 35-40, 5’ 10” in height, wearing ‘beige’ or ‘light’ trousers, and wearing a dark jacket and shoes”. (Later, Gerry made a big fuss of stating that the height of the man had got ‘lost in translation’ and that Jane had actually said he was between 5’ 7” and 5’ 9”).

Jane Tanner’s first description of the abductor she claimed to have seen was that he was white, had short hair, was of average height and build, and ‘was carrying a bundle, maybe a blanket.

Days later, in a second statement, she ‘remembered’ that she had actually seen ‘a blonde-haired girl wearing pyjamas with a pinkish aspect’.

But in October we were presented with the now famous sketch by Brian Kennedy-employed ‘F.B.I.-trained forensic artist’ Melissa Little. Explaining her description, she later said, for example: “The one thing I remember is the hair…he seemed to have quite a lot of dark, ‘reasonably-long-to-the-neck’ hair…sleek and black’.”. Now she didn’t say t6he man was ‘white’ but said “He looked more local or Mediterranean-looking and had swarthy skin”. Clearly this was very different from her first description. The massive contradictions over time in Jane Tanner’s evidence make it plain to almost everybody that her descriptions were all fabrications, a situation that DCI Andy Redwood of Operation Grange tried to rectify by producing the equally unlikely ‘Crecheman’.
And it’s plain that Carol Tranmer’s description in her Rogatory Interview of the man she claimed to have seen on 3 May was very different from Melissa Little’s sketch of Tannerman.

But now let’s get back to that article by David Pilditch. He wrote: “In a second development, Mrs Fenn’s niece reported seeing a man who matched the description of a suspect peering into the McCanns’ holiday apartment around the time Madeleine went missing”.

And let’s ask this key question. Who exactly was in a positon to know what ‘Mrs Fenn’s niece’ - Carol Tranmer - had actually told the police?

Who was in a positon to know that the descriptions of ‘Tannerman’ and ‘Tranmerman’ ‘matched’?

In actual fact, they didn’t match at all.

So this claim of ‘matching’ almost certainly did not come from either the Portuguese or British police.

I suggest therefore that this ‘matching’ claim was produced by the person who supplied Pilditch and Sol and the other newspapers with the material for those articles. This ‘matching’ claim was manna from heaven for the McCanns because it reinforced in the public mind that there really was an abductor. I suggest that the most likely candidate by far is Clarence Mitchell.

In addition to all of the above, there are several reasons for doubting whether Carol Tranmer was really there that week in Portugal, which have been analysed elsewhere. Moreover, in another newspaper account we are told that Carol Tranmer actually witnessed the burglary, contradicting her own account. Another version has Carol Tranmer ‘staying with’ Mrs Fenn the week Madeleine was reported missing, whereas in her statement she clearly says she was not – and was (so she says) ‘house-hunting’ and only visited her aunt. The statements and evidence of Carol Tranmer, with all their contradictions and puzzles, need to be examined with just as much care as that of Mrs Fenn.

And she revealed vital details of the movements of Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry, and their holiday friends in the run up to the night of May 3 - when Madeleine vanished. Even though she lives in the apartment directly upstairs the police had never tried to get in touch with her

REPLY: This is contradicted elsewhere. It is surely beyond doubt that Mrs Fenn must have been amongst the very first people the police questioned when they interviewed all 400 occupants of the Ocean Club complex soon after Madeleine’s reported disappearance.

Incredibly Mrs Fenn, who lives in the apartment directly above the flat the McCanns were staying in, was never interviewed by Portuguese police, it was claimed yesterday.

REPLY: Again, this is contradicted elsewhere

It was only when a team of British officers were called in to help carry out a major review of the case that the information was acted on.

REPLY: In the last few sentences, Pilditch’s article smears the Portuguese police and praises the British police. I regard that as suspicious and I suggest that these thoughts come from a ‘source’ and not Mrs Fenn herself.

Now Mrs Fenn will be formally interviewed for the first time by Portuguese detectives at police headquarters in Portimao on Monday morning. Her niece, who has not been named, will also give a sworn testimony next week, after she was asked to fly to Portugal from Britain. The Daily Express can reveal they are among a series of witnesses will be called in to give statements in the light of new evidence which has emerged.

REPLY: Who supplied the Daily Express with all that information? It’s highly unlikely to have been Mrs Fenn. In al probability it was that ‘source’.

Detectives are preparing to swoop on new suspects after a breakthrough in a major new line of inquiry. Investigators are now working on the theory Madeleine, four, died inside the holiday apartment where her family were staying.

REPLY: Strangely enough, this appears to be exactly where Scotland Yard are now, with their suggestions that there was an intruder, that Madeleine ‘may have been dead when she left the apartment’, and a variety of suggestions that ‘Smithman’ (‘the centre of our focus’ – Redwood) might be the intruder and have carried away Madeleine’s dead body.

A police source told The Daily Express: "Next week we will be taking statements from several witnesses. We want to clarify details which may be relevant to the new line of inquiry in the light of the facts we have found."

REPLY: So who supplied the Daily Express with this apparently direct quote? Four possibilities I think:
1 A briefing or authorised leak by someone in Amaral’s team
2 An unauthorised leak by someone in Amaral’s team
3 A British police officer, or
4 Some other ‘source’.
Frankly I tend to rule out alternatives (1) and (2) above because I hardly think that a Portuguese police source (whether authorised or unauthorised) would have so comprehensively rubbished the Portuguese police and praised the British police to the skies.
It could I suppose be a combination

by **HiDeHo** 16.06.16 14:26

Just to remind you of this possibility...

I checked the dates and the T7 (except Payne) returned to UK the day following the 'trial' so it is possible for it to have happened..

Whether Mrs Fenn was included is unlikely though (if it happened)

by **HiDeHo** 16.06.16 14:49

Thanks for the response Tony I have scanned and will respond later :)

One thing I havent made clear is that my interest on this thread lays only with the 'crying'...

Back in 2010 I studied Carole Tramers statement and vowed never to touch it again... big grin

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

At that time I recognised the similarity of Matthew Oldfield, who stayed in the apartment with the gate she seemed to point to and he was wearing a tshirt that could have been described in the way she described it and though there were no 'blonde' friends in T7, one of the GNR described a 'blonde' friend..

GNR Officer

Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa

When they arrived they saw the girl’s father, a friend whom the witness describes as tall and blond, an OC employee and a translator who was also an OC employee, named Silvia Baptista.

They would not have necessarily been having a 'happy' leisurely time at the beach... The person at that gate may have been help preparing for what was going to happen that night....

Mrs Fenn's daughter Carole Tranmer saw someone carefully and quietly (using two hands) closing a gate below their balcony.

Her statement describing which gate was difficult to understand (made DP's look like a breeze!) but, by the end, it seemed (to me) to be the Oldfield's gate.

Does anyone have a picture of the area she was trying to describe?

On Thursday?

Was it Matthew Oldfield?

She describes a tshirt that was similar to the one that MO wore in the Paradaiso pics.

He should have been at the beach at the time she 'saw' the person.

(while 'studying' the beach visit and comparing the statements to the Paradaiso CCTV pics there may be some other discrepancies)

I find this important because if it was Thursday...that was the day they created the fake abduction. Madeleine was probably dead and many of the statements seem to be hiding what was truly happening.

(This was also around the time a cleaner saw someone in the stairwell overllooking the car park. It was believed to have been Neil Berry but upon reading his statement he denies it was him. Could it, perhaps, have been Carol Tranmers husband?)

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The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.