When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

HiDeHo wrote:May I ask...

Is there anyone who believes the photo was likely taken at mini tennis on Tuesday morning shortly after 10am?

If so, how can the mark be explained?

We have these alternatives:

1. The mark at Ocean Club tennis courts was caused by slightly different colours/textures/consistency of asphalts/tarmac used

2. 'Tide Mark' caused by water - but there was no rain before Wednesday

3. The court is the Rothley tennis courts or some other courts.

We know that the photo of the girl and the rest of the photo show that the photo was not taken when the sun was shining.

The head is clearly Madeleine's and the sun wasn't shining when she was photographed either.

I would like to see any or all other photos we have of the Ocean Club tennis courts to see if the same mark does appear on any other photos.

IF there is evidence of the same mark on any other Ocean Club tennis holidays, but taken on a wholly different day, different month or different year, THEN we may assume it is a semi-permanent mark and probably does not help us to decide when the photo was taken.

Funny, by the way, how - to provide 'proof' - the 'Last Photo' was lovingly timed and dated at 2.29pm on Thursday 3 May, with Kate giving us a detailed account of how, on 10 May, she sat behind Gerry at Portimao Police Station carefully annotating all the photos in her camera making a note of the dates and times of all the photographs she had taken  [QUOTE: "..sitting down with a notebook, pen and my camera, containing dated photographs of the holiday, and trying to write a detailed account of everything that had happened the week before", p. 123, 'madeleine' by Dr Kate McCann].

Yet despite that, she cannot give us a time nor even date for this one. Why do we have an exact date and time for the 'Last Photo', but not for the 'Tennis Balls Photo'?

Tony Bennett wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:May I ask...

Is there anyone who believes the photo was likely taken at mini tennis on Tuesday morning shortly after 10am?

If so, how can the mark be explained?

We have these alternatives:

1. The mark at Ocean Club tennis courts was caused by slightly different colours/textures/consistency of asphalts/tarmac used

2. 'Tide Mark' caused by water - but there was no rain before Wednesday

3. The court is the Rothley tennis courts or some other courts.

We know that the photo of the girl and the rest of the photo show that the photo was not taken when the sun was shining.

The head is clearly Madeleine's and the sun wasn't shining when she was photographed either.

I would like to see any or all other photos we have of the Ocean Club tennis courts to see if the same mark does appear on any other photos.

IF there is evidence of the same mark on any other Ocean Club tennis holidays, but taken on a wholly different day, different month or different year, THEN we may assume it is a semi-permanent mark and probably does not help us to decide when the photo was taken.

Funny, by the way, how - to provide 'proof' - the 'Last Photo' was lovingly timed and dated at 2.29pm on Thursday 3 May, with Kate giving us a detailed account of how, on 10 May, she sat behind Gerry at Portimao Police Station carefully annotating all the photos in her camera making a note of the dates and times of all the photographs she had taken  [QUOTE: "..sitting down with a notebook, pen and my camera, containing dated photographs of the holiday, and trying to write a detailed account of everything that had happened the week before", p. 123, 'madeleine' by Dr Kate McCann].

Yet despite that, she cannot give us a time nor even date for this one. Why do we have an exact date and time for the 'Last Photo', but not for the 'Tennis Balls Photo'?

There appears to be EXIF for the Last Photo giving date/time.  Presumably there is no EXIF for the Tennis Balls photo?  Or is it that no one has run the Tennis Balls photo through the EXIF extractor app?

I think in order to get the correct EXIF data you need a true original high res copy of the Tennis Balls photo, or at least a copy that is only one generation removed. The Last Photo, as detailed here...

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contains all of the EXIF data and also indicates that the last time the picture was edited was May 24 2007, using Adobe Photoshop. It's still debatable whether the Photoshop edit was done as part of the original creation of the picture, or whether it was as a result of someone else opening the original photo after it was distrubuted and re-saving it using Photoshop.

I think in order for us to get a similar extensive EXIF printout for the Tennis Balls photo we'd need to see the original, or the first generation high-res copy that was supplied to the press. If someone can track down that copy, it might be very interesting.

canada12 wrote:I think in order to get the correct EXIF data you need a true original high res copy of the Tennis Balls photo, or at least a copy that is only one generation removed. The Last Photo, as detailed here...

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contains all of the EXIF data and also indicates that the last time the picture was edited was May 24 2007, using Adobe Photoshop. It's still debatable whether the Photoshop edit was done as part of the original creation of the picture, or whether it was as a result of someone else opening the original photo after it was distrubuted and re-saving it using Photoshop.

I think in order for us to get a similar extensive EXIF printout for the Tennis Balls photo we'd need to see the original, or the first generation high-res copy that was supplied to the press. If someone can track down that copy, it might be very interesting.

Many thanks for your update.

Hi Tony,

I have 20 different theories of when the tennis photo may have been photographed. I posted them on here on Friday afternoon, but two hours after I posted, I didn't receive any feedback unfortunately, so I deleted my post as it was probably too lengthy or uninteresting or both.

If you're interested I could email you my 20 different theories on Monday or Tuesday? Perhaps you could give me some feedback.

If you did read my post on Friday afternoon then please disregard this post.

Spacecowboy wrote:Hi Tony,

I have 20 different theories of when the tennis photo may have been photographed. I posted them on here on Friday afternoon, but two hours after I posted, I didn't receive any feedback unfortunately, so I deleted my post as it was probably too lengthy or uninteresting or both.

If you're interested I could email you my 20 different theories on Monday or Tuesday? Perhaps you could give me some feedback.

If you did read my post on Friday afternoon then please disregard this post.

Spacecowboy... I had read a lot of your post and was planning on going back to it to digest it all (and thank you for taking the time to post it).

Is it possible for you to repost it using a spoiler action on it?


CLICK BELOW

Example of SPOILER post:

Looking forward to seeing the post back (in a spoiler) spacecowboy 

Your effort did not go unnoticed.

Over the years I have posted with no response but that doesn't mean its being ignored...

Always post because it IS getting viewed.

If by chance there is anything inappropriate then mods will remove 

HiDeHo wrote:

Spacecowboy wrote:Hi Tony,

I have 20 different theories of when the tennis photo may have been photographed. I posted them on here on Friday afternoon, but two hours after I posted, I didn't receive any feedback unfortunately, so I deleted my post as it was probably too lengthy or uninteresting or both.

If you're interested I could email you my 20 different theories on Monday or Tuesday? Perhaps you could give me some feedback.

If you did read my post on Friday afternoon then please disregard this post.

Spacecowboy... I had read a lot of your post and was planning on going back to it to digest it all (and thank you for taking the time to post it).

Is it possible for you to repost it using a spoiler action on it?


CLICK BELOW

Example of SPOILER post:

Looking forward to seeing the post back (in a spoiler) spacecowboy 

Your effort did not go unnoticed.

Over the years I have posted with no response but that doesn't mean its being ignored...

Always post because it IS getting viewed.

If by chance there is anything inappropriate then mods will remove 

Hi Hideho,

I'm busy today, but l'll repost it tomorrow with a spoiler alert after double checking it.
Thanks for responding. 

The following thread suggests the tennis photo was first seen on 7^th May 2007, but this page is no longer available on the on-line archive:
 
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The earliest I can find the photo is in the Mail archive of 6^th May, although the article shows as ‘updated on 9^th May’, and says the family released ‘a new statement on Wednesday’ which is the 9^th, so it doesn’t really confirm anything.
 
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In the article showing as 6^th, there is also the earliest photo (I think) of KM holding AM, wearing the identical pair of pink shorts to MM in the tennis photo, with a floppy blue hat, although there are several different photos of AM in these shorts around.
 
 The tennis photo is also in the Mail 8^th May 2007 at:
 
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If you go to the Bruno Press website you can see the photo dated May 5 2007 here:
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Go to page 52 and scroll down.
They have quite a collection of photos beginning May 4, but unfortunately I can't access the full size ones.

Doug D wrote:The following thread suggests the tennis photo was first seen on 7^th May 2007, but this page is no longer available on the on-line archive:
 
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The earliest I can find the photo is in the Mail archive of 6^th May, although the article shows as ‘updated on 9^th May’, and says the family released ‘a new statement on Wednesday’ which is the 9^th, so it doesn’t really confirm anything.
 
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In the article showing as 6^th, there is also the earliest photo (I think) of KM holding AM, wearing the identical pair of pink shorts to MM in the tennis photo, with a floppy blue hat, although there are several different photos of AM in these shorts around.
 
 The tennis photo is also in the Mail 8^th May 2007 at:
 
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Hi Doug D,

Do you believe that the upper body with the tanned arms is Madeleine's body? If yes and the general consensus is that this is a genuine photo of Madeleine's body, then most of my theories of when this photo may have been taken can be discarded.

It could be a number of possibilities.
1 It's totally genuine and taken at the OC
2 It's an image of Madeleine but at a different location prior to the holiday.
3 An image of another child was taken at the OC and Madeleine's face was photoshopped on to it. 
4 The image was taken prior to the holiday, the body belongs to another child and Madeleine's face has been photoshopped in place.

Personally I'm with number 3 or 4

Spacecowboy:

'Do you believe that the upper body with the tanned arms is Madeleine's body?'


A definite ‘maybe’ as with most things McCann!
 
On the positive side, at least it didn’t take three weeks for the photo to come out, but why are there no other photos and why release the one with so little MM and so much tennis court?
 
With digital cameras, nobody ever takes just one photo, especially when ‘she looked so gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle socks and new holiday sandals’ and with a zoom function on the camera, if it was a genuine photo opportunity, there should have been a better close up.
 
It’s just nonsense.

Thanks CANADA 12 for the link to Bruno Press pics.


I put together some of the family handouts to May 24th 2007  

The undated tennis photo was released with other pics from before the holiday




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Thanks HiDeHo... I think the fact that the tennis balls photo appears in the middle of all the other photos of Madeleine that were taken before the PDL holiday, tells us that it likely originated elsewhere, possibly the tennis court at Rothley, and not the OC at PDL.

The Rex Features site also has a few Madeleine photos but not nearly as many as Bruno Press. On Rex Features you can enlarge the pictures. No tennis court photo, unfortunately. But lots of Gerry and Kate.

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Is there reason to suppose that Madeleine had ever been to Rothley tennis courts?  The image in question would appear to be a Madeleine looking pretty much the same in age and appearance as the playground photograph and the poolside photograph - Portugal late April early May might be conducive to shorts, T-shirt, sandals and floppy sun hat but can that be said of the UK Midlands at that time of year?  Highly unlikely I think.

'madeleine' by Kate McCann..

Neither of us is a regular tennis player but before we’d had the kids we’d spent many holidays knocking a few balls around. Perhaps that’s a bit of a casual way of putting it:  we’re both pretty competitive so there have been some fierce matches over the years, thankfully all ending amicably with a hug over the net and a post-match beer.   So we were keen to get in some tennis on this break and maybe improve our technique a little. We played a few games and signed up for group lessons for the rest of the week, me at level 1 and Gerry level 2 (I must grudgingly concede that he is better than I am).

Although I don't have much faith in anything KM says or writes (if any), the above suggests to me that the Ocean Club tennis sessions were just a holiday fancy - they were taking lessons so clearly they are not seasoned players.  On holiday people generally do things they don't do at home so I can quite understand Madeleine being around tennis courts at the Ocean Club but is it usual to take a three year old child to a local tennis court when in the home environment?


I can't believe, if this image be the genuine article and not a fake, that it was taken at some other time of year or location.  One thing for sure that might be more telling than anything else - it doesn't appear within the grey-scale images contained in the PJ files.  If, as KM states, she ran back to the apartment to get her camera to capture the image - why not?  Reason enough to believe that the image wasn't taken by KM on her camera - reason enough to question a) is it genuine and b) if genuine who took it when and where.

Interesting what KM has to say in her book re:these first photos on Friday morning around 10am (about 26 hours after she got up on Thurs morning, she says):

The texts and phone calls kept coming. By this time our friend Jon Corner, a creative director in media production in Liverpool, was circulating photographs and video footage of Madeleine to the police, Interpol and broadcasting and newspaper news desks. This was in accordance with the standard advice for the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in the US, which advocates getting an image of a missing child into the public domain as soon as possible.


However, we know that the request to Interpol to creata missing persons report was made by the PJ. This request was made on the 4 May, and included the photo of MBM in the pink spotty top supplied by the Mcs in the early morning of the 4th. This photo does not seem to appear in any of those released to the media between the 4-7 May, posted above. 

Did these early press photos come from UK via Jon Corner or via the Mcs camera in Luz?

I agree with you Verdi that the photo was taken on the holiday and not at Rothley where the weather and scenario would be unlikely.

Alex Woolfall supposedly downloaded from Kates camera and sent the tennis balls pic to the press on May 5th , however, as you know, the Last Pic was not released for another 19 days after Gerry's return from UK


Some of the other pics not included in the graphic above...

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Who knows for sure?

Places in UK in April were a lot warmer than Faro on Monday & Tuesday based on the charts above.

UK weather - April 2007:
 
The averaging period used for the following assessment was 1961-1990.
 
UK overview
 
An exceptionally warm month, with all climate districts and regions setting new April records for maximum and mean temperatures (areal series back to 1914). Maximum temperatures anomalies were over 5 °C above the 1961-1990 average across much of southern England and parts of eastern Scotland.
Rainfall generally well below average, with many stations over south-east England and east Anglia recording less than 3 mm of rainfall. Sunshine was also well above average across the majority of the UK, with some areas having their sunniest April on record.
 
England diary of highlights
 
April mean temperatures were the warmest on record across England (series back to 1914), with well above average sunshine. Very dry too, with most stations over south-east England and East Anglia recording less than 3 mm of rainfall.
 
1st to 7th:
The month started with a large area of high pressure to the north of the UK, and low pressure to the south. This meant brisk easterly winds across England for the first few days, and these were quite strong across parts of the south with gusts to 50 m.p.h. in a few places from the 1st to the 3rd. Despite the breeze, it was warm with temperatures reaching 20.1 °C on the Solent. However, on the 3rd, a weak cold front spread southwards, and brought much cooler conditions for a day or so with highest temperatures on the 3rd, just 13.5 °C at Camborne. Temperatures recovered strongly thereafter, with 20.4 °C at Bridlington on the 5th and 20.2 °C on the Solent on the 6th. During this time, most places had plenty of sunshine, though low cloud affected north-eastern coasts at times. Clear skies overnight allowed temperatures to fall quickly after dark, with a widespread ground frost on most nights and an air frost on a few with lowest temperatures -2.6 °C at both Marham and Benson on the 5th. There were also a few showers across the south on the 1st and across parts of north-east England and the Midlands on the 3rd, otherwise it was a completely dry week for most.
8th to 14th:
High pressure persisted across the United Kingdom throughout this week, firstly edging south-westwards to be positioned to the south-west of the UK for a couple of days, before bulging eastwards again and finally taking up residence across central Europe. This meant a continuation of the dry, sunny and warm theme across England throughout this week. With sunny days and clear skies, and by now the ground drying out, there was often a significant contrast between day and night time temperatures. Ground frost was recorded on many mornings, and air frost on a few with Benson falling to -1.1 °C on the morning of the 1st and Shap falling to -0.9 °C on the 12th. Daytime temperatures were generally in the mid to high teens Celsius, but as the high pressure moved eastwards, even warmer air fed in off the Continent, and by the 14th, temperatures were reaching up to 23 °C across parts of the south.
15th to 21st:
High pressure maintained the dry, settled theme for most with again most places recording no rainfall at all. However, a weak front moved southwards into northern England on the 20th and gave a little rain to some hills, with 3 mm at Spadeadam and 2 mm at Shap Fell. The run of very warm days continued with 26.5 °C being recorded at Herstmonceux on the 15th and 25.5 °C being recorded on the Solent on the 16th. However, a weak cold front brought cooler conditions southwards on the 17th and 18th with temperatures, even in the south returning to the high teens Celsius. Nights were locally chilly with a grass frost in places.
22nd to 30th:
High pressure declined for a time during this period, and this allowed the weather to become more unsettled for a time, particularly in the north and the west. Troughs and fronts edges south-eastwards during the 23rd to the 25th and brought some useful rain to some northern and western areas. The highest 24 hour (09-09 UTC) rainfall total on 23rd was at Shap (Cumbria) with 54.0 mm, with Dunkeswell (Devon) recording 22.6 mm. Record high April 24 hour minimum temperatures were recorded on 24th and 25th, with 24-hour temperature at London St James Park not falling below 14.5 °C on 25th. Further east, the front ran out of steam, and apart from a few showers, many places remained dry. High pressure then reasserted itself from the north from the 26th onwards with mostly dry and sunny weather returning, but with an easterly breeze in the south. However, a few thundery showers occurred across the far south and south-west on the 29th and 30th.
 
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Although I agree there is a possibility of it being taken at Rothley, I tend to go along with what the details 'tell' me and it 'fits' that John Corner sent the ones from prior to the holiday and Alex Woolfall sent the tennis balls on Saturday.

Anything is possible, but it's important to me to not grab a theory and see if it fits... I prefer to go with what we 'know' exists, unless the files tell me something is not as it should be.

eg.  The files tell me that discrepancies started happening on Tuesday and I see no proof of Maddie being around after Sunday...

The FILES lead me to a conclusion that something may have happened before Tuesday, hence the discrepancies were attempts to cover up and after Sunday when she was seen.

Therefore its possible something happened between Sunday lunchtime and Tuesday morning.  A conclusion based on logic from the FILES... NOT because I guessed on a scenario and made it fit.

HiDeHo wrote:I agree with you Verdi that the photo was taken on the holiday and not at Rothley where the weather and scenario would be unlikely.

Alex Woolfall supposedly downloaded from Kates camera and sent the tennis balls pic to the press on May 5th , however, as you know, the Last Pic was not released for another 19 days after Gerry's return from UK


Some of the other pics not included in the graphic above...

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I think that's where the answer lies (excuse the pun).  The PJ are anxious for the most recent photograph of Madeleine for identification which is, ostensibly, readily available in the form of the playground picture the poolside picture and the tennis court picture - what better!  All they needed to do was hand over their cameras (the McCanns and their mates) to the PJ and let them do the graft but did they do that simple stress free thing?  No - they fanny about selectively sifting through various camera memory cards and in the interim issue an outdated image of Madeleine for identification - to assist with the investigation into a missing three year old child?

The most useful images of Madeleine to be later published for PR whilst the official police investigation is reliant on some antiquated image of the lost child?  What of all the other photographs recorded on the groups cameras?  Why are these three selected PR images the only available from a period of six days holiday?  I think the more discerning observer will instantly comprehend the reason why - problem is proving it.   Bell Pottinger, a bit like that PR bloke more recently jailed errr.... Max Clifford, that's the name, care not who or why they represent just as long as the price is right - bit like lawyers!

Sorry to go off track but it makes me furious.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] D wrote:  Who knows for sure?  Places in UK in April were a lot warmer than Faro on Monday & Tuesday based on the charts above.

Be that as it may, as I say people tend to behave differently when on holiday - more likely to strip off even if the weather is not particularly great.  No doubt I'm still living in Bedrock but somehow craving the St Tropez dream in down-town Rothley prior to late April just doesn't do it for me.  You'd be lucky to find me in the garden sans string vest and braces mid-July let alone April.

If I was big and brave and aferletic like what Gerry is, then I might stretch to shorts and sports shirt on the tennis court but I don't think I'd take a three year old child along for the ride.

A full copy of The Times article dated 6^th October 2007 where Alex Woolfall supposedly lays claim to downloading the ‘tennis photo’ can be found at:
 
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without having to go through a subscription service.
 
snipped:
 
‘The McCanns had photographs of Madeleine on their digital camera, which Mr Woolfall began transferring to a laptop computer. “I said to Kate, ‘Let’s try to identify pictures where her face is visible’. Downloading the images was a very difficult process for them. It was upsetting.
“They were trying to do two things at once: one, emotionally deal with what was actually, really happening to them; two, operate in some sort of logical way to help get her back.”
Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.’
 
HdH,
 
We know that the PA laid claim to the photo at an early stage, but have no real evidence as to where they received this photo from, other than the above report.
 
If we are happy to accept this account regarding Alex Woolfall as definitive, why are we questioning whether Jane may have taken the photo?
 
The files tell us that something is not right about this photo, with Rachel categorically contradicting KM and Russell waffling away as he did all along, so why should we offer any more credence to Woolfall’s claims, which cannot be correct if Rachel’s statement is truthful.
 
Without some new evidence coming to light, I don’t think we will ever get to an undisputed truth behind this photo.

Doug D wrote:A full copy of The Times article dated 6^th October 2007 where Alex Woolfall supposedly lays claim to downloading the ‘tennis photo’ can be found at:
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
 
without having to go through a subscription service.
 
snipped:
 
‘The McCanns had photographs of Madeleine on their digital camera, which Mr Woolfall began transferring to a laptop computer. “I said to Kate, ‘Let’s try to identify pictures where her face is visible’. Downloading the images was a very difficult process for them. It was upsetting.
“They were trying to do two things at once: one, emotionally deal with what was actually, really happening to them; two, operate in some sort of logical way to help get her back.”
Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.’
 
HdH,
 
We know that the PA laid claim to the photo at an early stage, but have no real evidence as to where they received this photo from, other than the above report.
 
If we are happy to accept this account regarding Alex Woolfall as definitive, why are we questioning whether Jane may have taken the photo?
 
The files tell us that something is not right about this photo, with Rachel categorically contradicting KM and Russell waffling away as he did all along, so why should we offer any more credence to Woolfall’s claims, which cannot be correct if Rachel’s statement is truthful.
 
Without some new evidence coming to light, I don’t think we will ever get to an undisputed truth behind this photo.

Doug,  I don't think we can take any of Rachaels claim as credible.  Even the police questioned her on which tennis court the children played and she didnt get that correct.

She claims it was Thursday (when the other group played) and if that is the case then it seems she may have been merely placing Maddie alive on Thursday.

She also claims it is the last time she saw Maddie (at mini tennis) so with her getting the wrong day, presumably, then are we to believe the last day she saw Maddie alive was Tuesday?

If she WAS at mini tennis and saw Jane take the picture then the rest of her statement falls short of being credible.

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