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When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by skyrocket on 23.03.16 12:57

The cleaning process (if power washed or machine washed) would be likely to be quite a long job. The majority of usage on the 2 tapas courts seems to be Mark Warner i.e. very few free time slots on the 3 booking sheets available. The courts are owned by the Ocean Club and cleaning maintenance would more than likely be carried out by the OC staff rather than the MW tennis pros (never known a club golf pro to mow the greens!). So, why not clean the courts on a MW change over day?

There are quite a few photos (current and historic) around of MW mini tennis - in every one, short rackets and yellow/red soft balls are being used. On the MW dedicated tennis courses, children from 6 years upwards use the short rackets and soft balls until they have progressed through 2 children's LTA awards/levels. Children from 3-5 years are catered for on Mini LTA Courses (i.e. courses designed and governed by the LTA) - there are no awards at this level, but you are not telling me they would ever be using 'full compression yellow balls', as the MW ad below describes 'normal' tennis balls. Mini LTA Course tennis (courses) and Mini Club tennis (childcare club activity) are for the same age band 3-5 years, and both are run by the MW tennis professionals in each of their resorts. There is no reason to assume that the short racket/soft ball LTA guidelines wouldn't be observed for both. IMO, THIS PHOTO WAS NOT TAKEN DURING A MW MINI CLUB TENNIS ACTIVITY SESSION.

http://www.markwarner.co.uk/activity-holidays/tennis?gclid=CjwKEAjw_ci3BRDSvfjortr--DQSJADU8f2jBP_NqrkCXdFoVSbRU16Fiz0ZodVgkiKYlrPLi6wurBoCOfLw_wcB

I agree that MBM looks the same build as she does in the play house/palm tree photos. (I still can't reconcile this MBM and the one in the Donegal Easter Monday egg rolling photo taken 3 weeks earlier). If the tennis photo is OK in terms of not having been photoshopped then it surely can't have been taken in the UK (temperature; and the Xmas 2006 MBM looks younger/smaller), which narrows the time frame. 

Why are we told that it was during a Mini Club activity, when all that needed to be said was: 'Here's a photo of Maddie helping collect balls after one of her dad's tennis games'? There are no other photos of MBM in the Mini Club that week (are there?). Not a single one of MBM and Ella out on the yellow catamaran (you'd want that for your album wouldn't you?) even though Tapas 7 members were on the beach at the time. Again, you're not telling me that parents weren't fully aware of the special sessions such as the sailing, which took place away from the usual club location. No photos of the high tea in the raised, covered area next to the tapas restaurant; no photos of the MBM with her favourite nanny; no photos of the cute sammy snake line arriving for tea; no photos of MBM and her new little friends together; NADA! And, where are all the activity items that MBM should have made during the week - wouldn't you think that these would have been produced for the press instead of the plate MBM made BEFORE she went on holiday for granny Healy. Where's the lobster picture; the handmade postcard (was it sent to granny?); the planet; the spaceship collage; the sand painting moon picture; the salt dough rocket; the alien mobile; etc; etc. 

IMO, the tennis photo was all that could be produced to say: 'Look, Madeleine did go to the Mini Club.' Just like the 'last photo' was produced to show that MBM was around on Thursday 3 May.

Apologies @HiDeHo if I've gone off topic - I realise that you're trying to tie down the 'when' of the photo. Can we rely on the tennis booking sheet for the court cleaning?
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by HiDeHo on 23.03.16 13:29

Skyrocket.

All I am trying to establish is whether it is 'water' on the court and if so, when was it possible for water to get on the court before mini tennis.


If it IS water and there was no court cleaning or rain before 10am for the mini tennis then it is reasonable to suggest that Kate is llying about the photo being taken at mini tennis.

My belief is that it was probably to place Madeleine alive on the Tuesday and the Last pic was to place her alive on Thursday and the playground pics to place her alive on Wednesday.

I don't believe in it being planned. Only if something happened to her earlier in the week AFTER these pics had been taken then they were carefully used to establish she was around.

ie Playground pics Saturday? Tennis pic Monday? Last pic Sunday?
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by skyrocket on 23.03.16 15:03

@HiDeHo - afternoon!


Perhaps someone could email the photo to someone who is qualified/experienced (one of these acrylic court installation/maintenance companys?) to give an opinion on the appearance of the court re: wetness. It's a very hard thing to pin down - the lack of background detail means that the photo could have been taken on one of the other 3 courts, at the Millenium site (or even, theoretically, elsewhere). 


IMHO, the tennis balls in the photo are a strong enough indicator that this is not a mini tennis session - which does suggest we are being misled by more than one of the persons involved that week.


However, we also have to bear Georgina's statement in mind: 


She relates it was one of the preferred activities of the McCann couple in that they had several lessons throughout the days and up to the date of the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent.


So, even without the photo we have a witness placing MBM there on Tuesday morning. But, was it MBM or was she misled also?


Court 2, which shows the mini club session (although  'Adult Classic' also shown in the same hour slot), was booked by one/both of the Reaps (parents of missing 3 year old daughter H*****, on all the check-in sheets) from 9-10am, so the cleaning can't have been done then. The records clearly show both courts as being cleaned at 12.30 pm, which would be the most sensible time (warmest for drying; guests having lunch), if done during the week, although seems odd to take both courts out of action at the same time. But, IMO, the records (as appears the norm) seem to have been doctored (no pun intended!). So why would the court be wet at 10am on Tuesday, other than if it had rained? Jez Wilkins, only mentions being rain-delayed on the Wednesday. He played tennis with GM on Tuesday. Did it rain overnight/early morning on Tuesday? I'll have to look at the weather for that week again, more closely.


I don't believe that the photo is of MBM at Mini Club tennis on Tuesday 1 May, 10 -11am. 


I still feel that the storyline/tennis photo could be to specifically back up the attendance at Mini Club but, yes, as you say, it may well be to tie MBM to a specific time/place - Tuesday/Mini Tennis.
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by Verdi on 23.03.16 21:00

Tony Bennett wrote:CMOMM member 'parapono', who is currently taking a short holiday in Praia da Luz, has just sent up these two pictures of the cleaning of the tennis courts:


PHOTO 1





PHOTO 2


Cleaning the tennis courts mid-March - isn't that off season?  Refreshing the colour by spray painting in preparation for the 2016 summer season?

Can we be sure this is not Stephen Birch with his state of the art patented all purpose subterranean body detector or ex-DCI Redwood moonlighting?

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by Verdi on 23.03.16 21:11

willowthewisp wrote:
Verdi wrote:@Nina wrote:  Just noticed after all these years that it says Mini Tennis Grass time,so what's that all about?

Throwing foam rubber simulated tennis balls around I shouldn't wonder - hence mini-tennis/grass time.  Providing rain didn't stop play of course!
Might be a good start to ask Gerry and his brother in law when they compiled them onto a CD disc for the Portugal PJ after Alex Woolfall had scrutinised images from the couples camera?
Three wise Monkeys?
Timesonline - October 6, 2007

Dominic Kennedy

He met the couple for the first time at their new apartment. "They were behaving exactly as I thought someone in that situation would be," Mr Woolfall said. "They had not slept. They were trying to work out what to do that might help generate images of her. They were desperately keen to publicise her face."
 
The McCanns had photographs of Madeleine on their digital camera, which Mr Woolfall began transferring to a laptop computer. "I said to Kate, 'Let's try to identify pictures where her face is visible'. Downloading the images was a very difficult process for them. It was upsetting.
 
"They were trying to do two things at once: one, emotionally deal with what was actually, really happening to them; two, operate in some sort of logical way to help get her back."
 
Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.

----------

No more need be said.

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by HiDeHo on 23.03.16 21:16

skyrocket wrote:@HiDeHo - afternoon!


Perhaps someone could email the photo to someone who is qualified/experienced (one of these acrylic court installation/maintenance companys?) to give an opinion on the appearance of the court re: wetness. It's a very hard thing to pin down - the lack of background detail means that the photo could have been taken on one of the other 3 courts, at the Millenium site (or even, theoretically, elsewhere). 


IMHO, the tennis balls in the photo are a strong enough indicator that this is not a mini tennis session - which does suggest we are being misled by more than one of the persons involved that week.


However, we also have to bear Georgina's statement in mind: 


She relates it was one of the preferred activities of the McCann couple in that they had several lessons throughout the days and up to the date of the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent.


So, even without the photo we have a witness placing MBM there on Tuesday morning. But, was it MBM or was she misled also?


Court 2, which shows the mini club session (although  'Adult Classic' also shown in the same hour slot), was booked by one/both of the Reaps (parents of missing 3 year old daughter H*****, on all the check-in sheets) from 9-10am, so the cleaning can't have been done then. The records clearly show both courts as being cleaned at 12.30 pm, which would be the most sensible time (warmest for drying; guests having lunch), if done during the week, although seems odd to take both courts out of action at the same time. But, IMO, the records (as appears the norm) seem to have been doctored (no pun intended!). So why would the court be wet at 10am on Tuesday, other than if it had rained? Jez Wilkins, only mentions being rain-delayed on the Wednesday. He played tennis with GM on Tuesday. Did it rain overnight/early morning on Tuesday? I'll have to look at the weather for that week again, more closely.


I don't believe that the photo is of MBM at Mini Club tennis on Tuesday 1 May, 10 -11am. 


I still feel that the storyline/tennis photo could be to specifically back up the attendance at Mini Club but, yes, as you say, it may well be to tie MBM to a specific time/place - Tuesday/Mini Tennis.

Afternoon Skyrocket :)

-------------------------------------
As mentioned before re Georgina Jackson I stayed at Tuesday being a time that Maddie was seen but on reflection when I returned to that sytaement I realised it was non specific and likely just an acknoledgement of the group which Maddie was supposed to be in.

Catriona was with them and as opposed to what some think it was probably half an hour of hitting balls (whether full size of sponge) and no real reason that Georgina would have acknowledged or remembered them by name.

-----------------------------------------------

It would be interesting to know what the 'cleaning' consisted of and whether someone with the expertise could guess on the watermark.  I don't believe anyone can say 100% if it was water but that brings me to another issue.

I have been holding back for a few years on asking this question regarding the water because I didn't have the weather reports from PdL.  Only from Faro and in the past few days I have the reports which indicate no precipitation on Monday night or Tuesday and have also studied some videos that we taken in Alvor during that week which would have had the same weather...

These are the videos which show Monday and Tuesday along with the Faro reports for those times.

The video weather appears to match that as you can see in the Faro reports.

It is a Windsurfing competition from Monday (registrations) to Saturday (Finals) and according to the schedule the competition starts at around 11am or after.

The second video shows clear before the competition with clouds after. As per the weather report)

Formular windsurfing Grand Prix Portimao Portugal Day 1  APRIL 30th 2007




MONDAY WEATHER FARO









Formular windsurfing Grand Prix Portimao Portugal Day 2 MAY 1st 2007




TUESDAY MAY 1st WEATHER






It was only after checking all of the above along with the PdL Weather forecast that I felt confident enough to make this post with the knowledge there was likely no rainfall Monday or Tuesday morning before the mini tennis.

What I find interesting, particularly after 'confirming' as best that I can that there was no rain before Tuesday morning I was curious why the ONLY reference to rain was Kate claiming rain on Tuesday   Is it possible that if she released this photo SPECIFICALLY to place Maddie alive on Tuesday but maybe the photo was taken after a court cleaning on eg Monday and remembering the court was wet when she took the photo preempted the explanation of it being wet by saying it rained on Tuesday....

That may be a little too far contrived, for me anyway..but I mention anyway :)
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by MRNOODLES on 24.03.16 11:48

canada12 wrote:The reason why the tennis balls photo looks all wrong is because it IS all wrong.
I'm not an expert photoshopper but I did a quick edit job and positioned the child's head where it looks more natural.You can see if you remove the "hunch" in the back, you have a child standing in a much more realistic and natural position than in the photo that was published. If you temporarily accept that the tennis balls photo is a composite the question then becomes why present such an awkward photo to the world?
1. A bad and rushed photoshopping job?
2. The child standing upright looks much older and taller than the Madeleine presented to the world?
3. Hunched makes the child look smaller and shorter?
Answers on a postcard....


Here's the original so you can compare:


(Sorry I don't mean to disrupt this thread which is about when the photo was taken, not what it shows.. mods please move this and my other posting above to a more appropriate area if you feel it's off-topic - thanks)
IMO The reason she is hunched is because she's gripping the top ball with her chin so she doesn't drop them.
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Mini Tennis

Post by G-Unit on 24.03.16 11:54

I have found something which suggests that children used different rackets and balls;

Tipsy tennis is highly entertaining and exactly as it sounds. Taking place in the evening, it involves playing tennis after a few drinks using children’s rackets and balls.
http://www.podcastdove.com/2015/05/25/tennis-at-levante-beach-resort/



Some good pics showing small children using yellow and red balls. All with trainers on also. Sandals are a trip hazard and unlikely to be allowed. 
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by MRNOODLES on 24.03.16 12:20

HiDeHo wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Nina wrote:
Just noticed after all these years that it says Mini Tennis Grass time, so what's that all about?
Probably it means that any mini-tennis session took place in a grassy area (like the 'parachute' session the day before)...

...which, in essence, means that all claims made about the mini-tennis session and the Tennis Balls Photo are...

...a complete load of rubbish...

Mini tennis was allocated to Court 2 and also the police questioned Rachael about which court they played on (she got it wrong).

You may note also that she claims it was Thursday but it was the SHARKS that played on Thursday, so when she says it was the last time she saw Maddie , does she mean Thursday or Tuesday when Madeleine's group played.?

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post484.html#p484

Rachael Mampilly Oldfield
1578 “I think you’ve already covered this one, when was the last time you saw Madeleine”?
Reply “Erm it was when she was having a tennis lesson, in the morning yeah, about probably between ten thirty and eleven on the morning of the third of May”.
00.41.13 1578 “At the tennis courts”?
Reply “Yes at the tennis courts”.
1578 “Any particular court”?
Reply “Erm it was the one, if you were standing facing the courts, it’s the one on the left I think”.
1578 “Got your exhibit here, number 101, are they the tennis courts”?
Reply Yes, it was, it was that one, there are only two courts there”.
1578 Okay”.
Reply So it would have been this one here, where the children were”.
1578 “What’s that one there and what is that”?
Reply “Erm that’s the, I think that’s probably, well the outside bit of the, of the crèche overlooked the tennis courts and so maybe that’s that, that’s not quite sort of accurate I don’t think that, that diagram, the crèche was here and there’s an outside area here and the indoor, in, inside of it there”.

Therefore how thorough or relaxed were these sessions organised and completed.  Were kids names just added to a list and if they pitched up or not, nobody was that fussed because accurate registers were not kept.  So if little 'Tommy' says he was there, it's just taken on face value little 'Tommy' was there... Until of course you ask little 'Tommy's' mum all about it and she has to guess the answers because really little Tommy was elsewhere.
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by skyrocket on 24.03.16 15:01

@HiDeHoThanks for posting the weather info. As you say, no rain Mon/Tues. Interesting to see the actual conditions on the 2 clips you posted. Looked not bad Mon (out of the wind) and chilly Tues - obvious choice of days to take the kids to the beach and buy sun glasses! 


Yes, only KM says it rained on Tues. GM just that it was cloudy. KM describes how whilst on the beach it started to rain so she walked to a nearby (presumably wet) bench (in the rain or had it stopped?) and sat down with the 3 children whilst GM went to buy ice creams. Sean and Amelie had both apparently had not liked wet sand (unusual for toddlers; and both of them?) - but they apparently didn't mind getting wet behinds. 


@MrNoodles - I would say that's the case. If you look at the Toddler 2 creche sheets all the children seem to be listed daily but many don't appear to have attended a lot of the sessions. There is no way to know definitely whether the lack of times and signatures is actually a non-show (although most likely) or a forgetful/rushed parent. The mysterious 'M' never shows and there are no kids there that week who this could be!


*****************************


I'm slipping something in here off topic before I forget it - apologies to @HiDeHo (mods please move if necessary). Whilst reading around a bit for the above topic alarm bells started to ring about another point:

In GM's 10 May statement he says the following (bold points relevant): 

Returning to Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.
----- They made their way on foot by the usual route to the creche next to the TAPAS where they left the twins, and, while KATE stayed to play tennis he took MADELEINE to her creche, through the short-cut, where they arrived at 09h15, and , since it was obligatory, he signed the child's attendance register. On returning, not by the short-cut, he went to the supermarket where he bought milk, he presumes, making his way to his apartment, entering by the front door, that was locked by key, when it was 09H40/09H45.
----- He remained at home for about 15 minutes, dressing in tennis clothes, left by the front door, that he did not lock, and made his way to the tennis courts by the usual route, they being next to the TAPAS. He played tennis for an hour with the instructor and other students among whom was an individual he had met during the holiday called "JEZ", and with whom he had established a friendship albeit as a simple acquaintance. "JEZ" has two small children whose exact age he does not know. As to his wife, he had seen her next to the pool but had never spoken with her.




In Jez Wilkin's 7 May statement he says the following:

On Wednesday, 2nd May, I could see it was raining and the tennis lesson was postponed. It was re-scheduled for 2:30 pm. I found this out at a later date and missed the lesson. I arrived about five (5) minutes before the end and realized this fact. I saw the usual people at the tennis lesson. I then went back to my apartment.

That evening myself and my partner attended the 'Tapas' restaurant which is part of the hotel complex at the swimming pool. We sat down to eat at 7:30 pm. After about forty five (45) minutes Jerry appeared as did one of his friends. I believe it was Russell. They sat at the next table. We naturally engaged in conversation about everyday things. We spoke about childcare. That night my family were using the creche's facility [in the hand written statement the previous sentence reads as 'That night we were all using the creche facility' crossed out to read the version before the brackets]. We found out that the group of families were occupying ground floor flats near the swimming pool and they were leaving the children by themselves in order for them to go to the restaurant in the evenings. They would then go regularly to check the children who would be asleep. 

I found out that Jerry was a cardiologist in a Hospital. At this time his wife was putting the children to bed. We received a call from the creche informing that our son was awake. My partner left first and I followed shortly afterwards. The amount of time I spent with Jerry was about fifteen (15) to twenty (20) minutes we remained in the restaurant. By the time we left, Jerry was with about seven other people.


And lastly, Bridget O'Donnell's version from her article dated 14 Dec 2007:

We had booked a table for two at Tapas and were placed next to the Doctors' regular table. One by one, they started to arrive. The men came first. Gerry McCann started chatting across to Jes about tennis. Gerry was outgoing, a wisecracker, but considerate and kind, and he invited us to join them. We discussed the children. He told us they were leaving theirs sleeping in the apartments. While they chatted on, I ruminated on the pros and cons of this. I admired them, in a way, for not being paranoid parents, but I decided that our apartment was too far off even to contemplate it. Our baby was too young and I would worry about them waking up.
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My phone rang as our food arrived; our baby had woken up. I walked the round trip to collect him from the kiddie club, then back to the restaurant. He kept crying and eventually we left our meal unfinished and walked back again to the club to fetch our sleeping daughter. Jes carried her home in a blanket. The next night we stayed in. It was Thursday, May 3.


So, had Gerry spoken to Bridget or not??!!
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by HiDeHo on 24.03.16 16:54

skyrocket wrote:So, had Gerry spoken to Bridget or not??!!

Thats a tough call to decide which one of them to believe  smilie
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by Guest on 24.03.16 17:05

Tony Bennett wrote:CMOMM member 'parapono', who is currently taking a short holiday in Praia da Luz, has just sent up these two pictures of the cleaning of the tennis courts:


PHOTO 1





PHOTO 2


It´s cleaning after being closed for winter.

The sun beds round the Tapas pool also desperately needed a start of season clean.

You might like to ask about the bougainvillea.
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by April28th on 24.03.16 17:33

Verdi wrote:
Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.

----------

No more need be said.

Whoa. Had to do a literal double take there. Yet more admission that photos were sent to the press but not even given to the PJ. In this case they're even saying it was done in one fell swoop. Two for me, one for you - the brass of it.



This adds strength to the argument that mini tennis should've had soft balls - even Crimewatch didn't get that wrong!

Also found this useful perspective picture from this useful page, which also dates one of the previously posted images to May 2007:



Apologies to HideHo if this post doesn't answer the initial question - my response to that would be that I definitely see wetness, but I'm not well enough placed to debate how or why that's the case.
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by April28th on 24.03.16 20:30

Not having access to the original photo I played with the contrast/brightness on a couple of sample photos. In both cases the 'water mark' is very clear.





I'm not convinced there's evidence of sunburn here, taking into account the light direction, as well as the contrast in even the Mail photo (seems to have gone through a filter, even if only a default kind on particular the camera). The arms are darker under the sleeve and elbow as you'd expect - the only 'things that should not be' (in my opinion only) are the small mark on her leg, and the mark near the top of her forearm. This mark is most notable because there is no reason a shadow would be cast in such a fashion (you can't argue it's from a nearby tree as if it were, we'd see the same dappled effect all over). So this does seem to be a real mark of an odd shape (too large to be a thumb print, too small to be fingermarks).
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by worriedmum on 24.03.16 20:56

Do you mean the mark on her calf, April28th?
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by April28th on 24.03.16 21:07



Yes, as highlighted here. The calf mark is probably just a bruise from playing, the forearm I can't work out, it's a weird shape.

ETA - I blew the forearm area up and drew out the shape as best I could without literally inventing an image of my own - an odd shape as I said before. Almost looks like a crude star or a crude letter K?

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by Verdi on 24.03.16 22:31

Sorry to rain on your parade  big grin but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by Nina on 24.03.16 22:35

Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  big grin but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..
The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by Verdi on 24.03.16 22:41

Nina wrote:
Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  big grin but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..
The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.
Now that's what I call sensible thinking - far more logical for it to be an anomaly in the photograph than a freak of nature.  Who knows where this photograph originated, where it's been since,  how many hands/machines it passed through since hitting the headlines.

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by worriedmum on 24.03.16 22:48

PRESENT Family Name : McCANN
FAMILY NAME AT BIRTH : McCANN
Forenames : Madeleine Beth
Sex : F
DATE AND Place OF Birth: 12th May 2003 - Leicester, United Kingdom
Also known as Maddie.
OTHER DATES OF BIRTH USED : N/A
FATHER'S FAMILY NAME AND FORENAMES: McCann Gerald Patrick.
MOTHER'S MAIDEN NAME AND FORENAMES : HEALY Kate Marie
IDENTITY : CONFIRMED
NATIONALITY : BRITISH (CONFIRMED)
IDENTITY DOCUMENTS - BRITISH PASSPORT No 45XXXXXXX, issued on 4th August 2003 (UNITED KINGDOM) (Valid until 4th August 2008)
Occupation : N/A
Language Spoken : English
MARITAL STATUS : N/A
DESCRIPTION:
HEIGHT : 90 cms
HAIR : Blond
EYE: Green/Blue
BUILD : Slim
DISTINGUISHING MARKS AND CHARACTERISTICS :
Left Eye : Blue and Green colour
Right Eye : Green colour with a Brown spot in Retina
Small brown mark on Left Leg Calf.
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by JRP on 24.03.16 23:20

Verdi wrote:
Nina wrote:
Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  big grin but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..
The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.
Now that's what I call sensible thinking - far more logical for it to be an anomaly in the photograph than a freak of nature.  Who knows where this photograph originated, where it's been since,  how many hands/machines it passed through since hitting the headlines.

The water mark doesn't appear to pass through the child's  body though.

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by Nina on 24.03.16 23:42

JRP wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Nina wrote:
Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  big grin but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..
The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.
Now that's what I call sensible thinking - far more logical for it to be an anomaly in the photograph than a freak of nature.  Who knows where this photograph originated, where it's been since,  how many hands/machines it passed through since hitting the headlines.

The water mark doesn't appear to pass through the child's  body though.
Oh hec didn't want this to be an argument but on a magnification to 250 on my screen it does  flag

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by April28th on 25.03.16 1:35

Nina wrote:
JRP wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Nina wrote:
Verdi wrote:Sorry to rain on your parade  big grin but is the consensus suggesting that wetness on the tennis courts, be it the result of rain or cleaning would start to dry in a margin between green and red?  Rain or washing would cover the whole court area, not just the inner green area or the outer red area so why is it drying/draining along the edge of the green only?

It's not unusual following rainfall or watering for areas to dry out gradually at a different rate but this normally occurs in patches, not as suggested in this photograph.

Or am I missing a vital clue..
The very first time I saw this water line I actually thought that it was a watermark on the photograph and didn't think it was on the tennis court.
Now that's what I call sensible thinking - far more logical for it to be an anomaly in the photograph than a freak of nature.  Who knows where this photograph originated, where it's been since,  how many hands/machines it passed through since hitting the headlines.

The water mark doesn't appear to pass through the child's  body though.
Oh hec didn't want this to be an argument but on a magnification to 250 on my screen it does  flag

Just confirmed this myself...ironically I only noticed when looking from my phone screen and zooming in, ive literally never noticed that the pattern persists over her tshirt before, even when playing with photoshop! 

@worriedmum Thanks for that info, not a bruise then.
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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by canada12 on 25.03.16 2:51

Here's a reasonably good res version of the "fixed head" tennis balls pic I posted earlier. I didn't alter anything below the neckline of her t-shirt and the tennis balls, so the lower part of the t-shirt is the same as it has always been. I don't see the "watermark" going through her body or clothing. I see a few shadows on creases in the t-shirt fabric, but not a defined watermark line like the watermark line on the tennis court. You can right-click this photo to save it to your computer and enlarge it in a graphics program.



ETA - it would be extremely useful if someone had captured photos of the tennis court's red area to see whether that wiggly line scuff behind her is present in other pictures of the court.

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Re: When was the 'Tennis Balls' pic taken?

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 25.03.16 7:02

IMO the tennis balls pic has been taken after a period of light rain. Reasons;

1. As already pointed out, heavy rain or intentional watering/cleaning would likely to leave pools which would be evident. We see the green surface as being damp which is in keeping with light rain in the process of drying up.

2. The green area being wet and the red area dry is possibly due to the different absorbency/porosity properties of the painted surfaces. The red surface may absorb water more readily and becomes dry before the green surface does.

3. The red surface may be hotter in the sun or broken cloud conditions, and dries quicker. The water margin is closer to the warmer red surface (also perhaps more absorbent) and so water dries quicker on the strip of green surface adjacent to the red surface, which creates the effect of dampness receding back from where the 2 surfaces meet.

IF the above is plausible, then perhaps MBM (if the image is genuinely of her) has seized an opportunity to run onto an empty court, or before an adult game resumes, following a period of light rain. Her clothing would suggest it was an overall warm day.

Just my thoughts.
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