Express - today: Madeleine-McCann-police-probe-curtains-for-DNA-clues

by HelenMeg 27.10.14 11:50

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Is this written tongue in cheek? Must be... apologies of already posted - please delete if so...

British officers hope that new tests on the fabric will reveal traces of DNA which could identify her kidnapper.
They believe he may have touched them as he took threeyear- old Madeleine from her bed at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz and climbed out of the window with her.

by Snifferdog 27.10.14 12:00

A test to see what the public will swallow?
I'm surprised the news paper boss is not hauled in for possibly perverting the course of justice.
Perhaps "they" hope to wear everyone out with these rubbish fables, and people give up trying to get to the truth.

Unbelievable.

All Imo.

by Joss 27.10.14 12:13

HelenMeg wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this written tongue in cheek? Must be... apologies of already posted - please delete if so...

British officers hope that new tests on the fabric will reveal traces of DNA which could identify her kidnapper.
They believe he may have touched them as he took threeyear- old Madeleine from her bed at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz and climbed out of the window with her.

If there was no fingerprint evidence found, why would they expect to find DNA finger or hand prints on the curtain?

by Joss 27.10.14 12:15

Snifferdog wrote:A test to see what the public will swallow?
I'm surprised the news paper boss is not hauled in for possibly perverting the course of justice.
Perhaps "they" hope to wear everyone out with these rubbish fables, and people give up trying to get to the truth.

Unbelievable.

All Imo.

I agree, talk about the obvious grasping at straws in the case. It's really getting more than ridiculous IMO.

by Daryl Dixon 27.10.14 12:36

Joss wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this written tongue in cheek? Must be... apologies of already posted - please delete if so...

British officers hope that new tests on the fabric will reveal traces of DNA which could identify her kidnapper.
They believe he may have touched them as he took threeyear- old Madeleine from her bed at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz and climbed out of the window with her.

If there was no fingerprint evidence found, why would they expect to find DNA finger or hand prints on the curtain?

I believe that there were unidentified and incomplete fingerprints found inside and outside of the apartment.

by NickE 27.10.14 13:14

Portugal’s Public Ministry will decide whether the material should be handed over"

by Sceptic 27.10.14 13:19

Daryl Dixon wrote:
Joss wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this written tongue in cheek? Must be... apologies of already posted - please delete if so...

British officers hope that new tests on the fabric will reveal traces of DNA which could identify her kidnapper.
They believe he may have touched them as he took threeyear- old Madeleine from her bed at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz and climbed out of the window with her.

If there was no fingerprint evidence found, why would they expect to find DNA finger or hand prints on the curtain?

I believe that there were unidentified and incomplete fingerprints found inside and outside of the apartment.

It was a holiday apartment so unless it was clinically cleaned between each set of guests (which from experience I very much doubt) there will be hundreds of partial/unidentified fingerprints etc.

by Joss 27.10.14 13:35

Sceptic wrote:
Daryl Dixon wrote:
Joss wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this written tongue in cheek? Must be... apologies of already posted - please delete if so...

British officers hope that new tests on the fabric will reveal traces of DNA which could identify her kidnapper.
They believe he may have touched them as he took threeyear- old Madeleine from her bed at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz and climbed out of the window with her.

If there was no fingerprint evidence found, why would they expect to find DNA finger or hand prints on the curtain?

I believe that there were unidentified and incomplete fingerprints found inside and outside of the apartment.
It was a holiday apartment so unless it was clinically cleaned between each set of guests (which from experience I very much doubt) there will be hundreds of partial/unidentified fingerprints etc.

Exactly.

by **PeterMac** 27.10.14 14:38

And how often are curtains washed ?

Unless there has been a smoker in the apartment possibly not even once a year. Curtains don't get dirty.
They also don't 'whoosh' except in Hammer Horror films, but that is another story.
And we are not talking about very light net curtains. They are the same fabric as the bedspread, so medium weight.

by Joss 27.10.14 14:46

PeterMac wrote:And how often are curtains washed ?

Unless there has been a smoker in the apartment possibly not even once a year. Curtains don't get dirty.
They also don't 'whoosh' except in Hammer Horror films, but that is another story.
And we are not talking about very light net curtains. They are the same fabric as the bedspread, so medium weight.

Yes exactly.

by Smokeandmirrors 27.10.14 15:58

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't get a fingerprint off fabric, it has to be a solid surface I think. Also, a curtain contains dust and loose fibres so finding individual skin cells after 7 years is frankly ludicrous.

The ONLY thing that they could be looking for is a bodily fluid in such a quantity that a sample can be extracted that has not also degraded after 7 years.
AND they would need to prove that it wasn't from a previous guest/cleaner/maintenance person. UNLESS they had a DNA sample from one of the hundreds of suspects they have gathered over the years……0h forget it. This is just a ridiculous story that will go the same way as the other nonsense we've had drivelled at us for what seems like an eternity.

The only thing I can think of, is that these stories get spouted to a) justify £10m taxpayers money being spent on the review or b) to see who gets rattled by thinking the police may be closing in.

by Brian Griffin 27.10.14 16:40

It also gives the cops a legitimate reason to keep hanging round to make sure the Portuguese police don't get any frisky ideas to do with hand-cuffs if Mr and Mrs decide to pay the country a visit. I suspect that is part of the reason they are there. Shouldn't bloody be there at all!

In my opinion.

by **Hobs** 27.10.14 16:40

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Forensic experts at the University of Abertay Dundee and the Scottish Police Services Authority (SPSA) are leading the way in the research of new ground-breaking forensic techniques within the field of fingerprints.

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The new research seeks to recover fingerprint ridge detail and impressions from fabrics -- a technique that has up until now proved difficult. It is the first time in more than 30 years that fingerprints on fabrics have been a major focus for research and the team have already had a number of successes.
A technique known as vacuum metal deposition (VMD) that uses gold and zinc to recover the fingerprint mark is being investigated as part of the research project. VMD is a highly sensitive technique already used to detect fingerprint marks on smooth surfaces such as carrier bags, plastics and glass.
The current research study by the University of Abertay Dundee and SPSA forensic experts is exploring its use in the examination of clothing and the potential value it could bring to a police investigation.
Joanna Fraser, a forensic sciences researcher at the University of Abertay Dundee, said: "The research uses fine layers of metals to display fingerprints people may have left on fabrics, something which is far harder to do with soft surfaces. The technique has been around since the 1970s and is used on many surface but was never widely used on fabrics.
"We take these fabrics, place them in a vacuum chamber, then heat up gold to evaporate it and spread a fine film over the fabric. We then heat up zinc, which attaches to the gold where there are no fingerprint residues. This helps reveal the fingerprint -- where contact has been made we see the original fabric, where there was no contact we're left with the grey colour of the metal film."
She added: "One way of explaining it is like a photographic negative, where colours show up as their opposites. Here the fingerprint ridges show through as clear fabric, but where there are no ridges we see the distinctive grey colour of the metal.
"Previously it had proved difficult to reveal a clear fingerprint on fabric, but we've shown that this is now possible. This is great, but the challenge is to develop this further and confirm its effectiveness."
Paul Deacon, fingerprint unit manager at the Scottish Police Services Authority (SPSA) and one of the experts on the project said: "Fingerprints have been used as a means of identification for over 100 years but recovering fingerprints from fabrics has always proven to be fairly difficult. We wanted to change that.
"The research is still in its early stages but we are starting to see results. We have shown that fabrics with a high thread count are best for revealing a print and have recovered identifiable fingerprints on a number of fabrics including silk, nylon and polyester."
Only 20 per cent of the public are classed as "good donors" for leaving fingerprints, so while the success rate is still low for recovering a full fingerprint from items of clothing, the researchers have had great success in revealing the shape of a handprint on a number of fabric types.
Paul Deacon added: "Such an impression could help the police piece together a timeline of events and could be used to provide evidence in cases where someone was pushed, or grabbed, in a particular area of their clothing.
"For example, an impression of a palm print on the back of someone's shirt might indicate they were pushed off a balcony, rather than jumping. Fingerprints left on fabric and other surfaces can leave DNA traces, so it can also help forensic scientists to visualise the best area to target on an item of clothing to recover DNA evidence."
Director of SPSA Forensic Services Tom Nelson said: "Used on its own fingerprints and impressions recovered on fabrics will not necessarily convict a criminal but used alongside other evidence it will present a more robust case to the court.
"I am determined that we continue to balance the consolidation of the core forensic support we provide to the police and the Crown, with new innovations and techniques. This is just one such innovation we are pursuing as we strive to ensure that forensics makes an even greater contribution to convicting the guilty and protecting the public."

Story Source:
The above story is based on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] provided by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:
[list=journal]
[*]Joanna Fraser, Keith Sturrock, Paul Deacon, Stephen Bleay, David H. Bremner. Visualisation of fingermarks and grab impressions on fabrics. Part 1: Gold/zinc vacuum metal deposition. Forensic Science International, 2010; DOI: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[/list]

by **sharonl** 27.10.14 20:08

If we step into the media land of make believe and accept that:

The curtains were untouched before the McCanns arrived
The curtains had not been washed by Kate or anyone else
It was possible to lift fingerprints and other DNA off fabric
The evidence would remain intact for over 7 years
DNA and fingerprints are found

Where does the investigation go from here?

I can see how this helps the McCanns but how does this help to find Madeleine?

Is there a link to Kate having washed the curtains? Surely that'll put an end to this nonsense

by maebee 27.10.14 21:59

They believe he may have touched them as he took three year- old Madeleine from her bed at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz and climbed out of the window with her.

And he hopped right over the lichen, with a child in his arms flag

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by NickE 27.10.14 22:01

"British officers hope that new tests on the fabric will reveal traces of DNA which could identify her kidnapper.
They believe he may have touched them as he took threeyear- old Madeleine from her bed at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz and climbed out of the window with her.
The curtains have been sealed in an evidence file at the National Institute of Forensic Medicine in the Portuguese city of Coimbra since 2007".

Correct me if Iám wrong here,but I can´t see anything in the PJ files about this sealed bedroom curtains
......BUT this!
Curtains from the living room....Tick..Tock.......
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by **sharonl** 27.10.14 23:28

UK police have no jurisdiction in Portugal and the Portuguese police seem somewhat reluctant to work alongside them. Do UK police have any right of access to evidence stored in Portugal?

by IKNOWWHATHAPPENED 27.10.14 23:42

Information gathering exercise.

The English simply want to know what the Portuguese know.

The cover up is taking place before our very eyes.

by TheTruthWillOut 27.10.14 23:47

IKNOWWHATHAPPENED wrote:Information gathering exercise.

The English simply want to know what the Portuguese know.

The cover up is taking place before our very eyes.

Which would require the Portuguese to be just has corrupt as the UK is said to be in this case. I wouldn't go as far as to rule it 100% out, but I highly doubt it.

by plebgate 28.10.14 7:45

Only two months to go before Mr. Redwood retires apparently. Doesn't look as though this case will be solved by then so who or what will happen when he leaves I wonder?

by The....truth 28.10.14 7:50

NickE

The current Textusa posting Sweet 16 is probably the origniał source for all this.

I recommend strongly a read

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by The....truth 28.10.14 8:02

And here is a good review of the whooshing..

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by The....truth 28.10.14 8:06

And even better...all together now

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[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=15]One for PMac to sing in the shower...![/size][/font][/color]

by NickE 28.10.14 8:21

Thetruth wrote:NickE

The current Textusa posting Sweet 16 is probably the origniał source for all this.

I recommend strongly a read

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by NickE 28.10.14 8:22

Thetruth wrote:NickE

The current Textusa posting Sweet 16 is probably the origniał source for all this.

I recommend strongly a read

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double post.
deleted.

by woodforthetrees 28.10.14 8:50

so, let me get this right.... OG want to check for fingerprints or/and DNA on the fabric of curtains as it is believed the abductor touched them on exiting the room, but yet, the very same abductor didn't leave any such fingerprints or DNA on the window frame, window, tiles, wallls etc etc.

Also, are OG now saying that the abductor both entered and exited through the window?!?! Why not just use the door?!?

Deary me

What they should be analysing is what cleaning fluids had been used on the curtains and matching them to non-standard cleaning items from the complex, or more importantly.... matched to some purchased at a local supermarket by the guests and possibly in the kitchen cupboard of the apartment.

That would introduce some very interesting questions about who and why the curtains required washing..........

by **PeterMac** 28.10.14 10:08

Two good articles about the curtains, window, shutters, and the LIES told by both the McCanns, front door, patio door, shutters, curtain wide open, tight closed
and the total gibbering lunacy of the position they now find themselves in.
(Intruder has to open shutters, open window, pull curtains back, climb out and THEN reach back inside to close the curtains tightly and tuck them down between the wall and the bed and behind the
chair so they can "Whoosh . . ." whilst holding a 4 year old child.

Yeah, Right.
Surely even Carter-Ruck can understand that this is total nonsense.

by Guest 28.10.14 16:59

PeterMac wrote:Two good articles about the curtains, window, shutters, and the LIES told by both the McCanns, front door, patio door, shutters, curtain wide open, tight closed
and the total gibbering lunacy of the position they now find themselves in.
(Intruder has to open shutters, open window, pull curtains back, climb out and THEN reach back inside to close the curtains tightly and tuck them down between the wall and the bed and behind the
chair so they can "Whoosh . . ." whilst holding a 4 year old child.

Yeah, Right.
Surely even Carter-Ruck can understand that this is total nonsense.

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...as lazzeri writes here - it´s impossible

I´m sorry- -it was already posted - please delete admin !!!!!!

by sonic72 28.10.14 17:42

What happened to all the imminent 'arrests'??!! Surely the curtains do not need testing if they have suspects ready to arrest?!

The thing is, the longer they string this out with BS stories in the papers, the sooner people start to disbelieve them.

I have a friend, reads some papers, and they have followed this case in the newspapers, and have they have never read the files, and even they think it's suspicious, and that's just from the BS stories that have been churned out.

So in essence, all this spin the mccanns are doing is having the reverse effect!

If I was them I'd sack Clarence Mitchell, he is making their situation worse with all his obvious spin.

The Mccanns would be better of spending the fund money on real missing children, because as it stands it's just going down the drain...

by **PeterMac** 28.10.14 17:52

Don't delete.
Repeat here, repeat on every forum to which anyone has access
Repeat on Twitter
Repeat on Facebook
Repeat on You Tube
Let the world see what utter nonsense, ludicrous nonsense, is being fed to the world by Mitchell and TM
Let the world see what utter gibbering buffoons are being protected by Libel Lawyers and politicians
Let the world see what Operation Grange is doing with OUR money.