Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

by russiandoll 21.03.14 11:08

with thanks to [email=Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt]Johanna@unterdenteppichgekehrt[/email]

Johanna ‏@UnterdenTeppich 30m
@metpoliceuk Monteiro has been dead for 4 years. Are you leaving no gravestone unturned? #mccann #deadpatsy

by the way, the children described his way of speaking, but nothing that was said.. weird.

Please God the explanation for the lack of facial description will not be because it was dark and the suspect was black.

They would not dare after Stephen Lawrence would they?

A dead black patsy?

by Doug D 21.03.14 11:13

WLBTS

But even if you could reduce it to 45 minutes it will still invalidate GM's check, or did he not only fail to see him hiding behind the door, but also failed to smell him (because he had used his aftershave)?
If pot-bellied man had been hiding behind the door when GM went into the room, are we seriously supposed to believe that the door would have opened wide enough for him to enter the room, (which he must have done to see M. lying 'in exactly the same position as we'd left her' and MO effectively confirmed this must have happened, as he couldn't see M. from outside the room) without noticing that the door didn't open properly?
How many more times can they change or re-interpret their stories to try and fit the facts?

by Mirage 21.03.14 11:14

Word has it there's to be a brand new CW appeal by Andy tonight:

My new man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat,
He wears cor blimey trousers,
Has he been in your flat?

If so, please call porkie-pie stoppers on this Portuguese number.

by russiandoll 21.03.14 11:19

mirage, behave !

seriously, Prof David Wilson who is usually silent on Maddie [ apart from last year's conclusion re McCann innocence, unlike the mother who hid her daughter and cried abduction, because of the ways both women held their child's cuddly toy ]
is tweeting re the media reports and the conflict between the UK and Portuguese police.

by CynicAl 21.03.14 11:26

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
Woofer wrote:

Doesn`t look pot bellied to me.

To be fair, he is tanned though. You know how tanned the ace of spades is? That's how tanned he is.

Well, if SY wants to be known as racist and ignorant then they said the right thing. Otherwise attribution of a black man's blackness to the tanning effects of the sun is as problematic as laying the blame for albino complexion at the feet of insufficient sunbathing. Glib and crass and not what our millions should be buying us. Was Stephen Lawrence a tanned male, I wonder?

by HelenMeg 21.03.14 11:28

Mirage wrote:Word has it there's to be a brand new CW appeal by Andy tonight:

My new man's a dustman,
He wears a dustman's hat,
He wears cor blimey trousers,
Has he been in your flat?

If so, please call porkie-pie stoppers on this Portuguese number.

by russiandoll 21.03.14 11:30

Monteiro's widow has a good case for libel, if he is named in the media as having molested girls if there is no proof that he did so.

comment on latest from textusa :

Our binmen are in a group of at least 4 people and my goodness are they noisy!!!! No wonder the sound of this bin lorry was supposed to be heard in Portugal in the quiet of the early hours of the morning. I’m sure our binmen would be very annoyed if one of them wandered off to have a look in apartments to find one with a child and not just any child but ones between the ages of 7 and 10, British, blonde and a non screamer as well as having parents who wouldn’t call the police while they carried on doing the work emptying bins. Is someone seriously implying that bin lorries in Portugal cover such a huge area that smellyman visited????

by whatliesbehindthesofa 21.03.14 11:31

Doug D wrote:WLBTS

But even if you could reduce it to 45 minutes it will still invalidate GM's check, or did he not only fail to see him hiding behind the door, but also failed to smell him (because he had used his aftershave)?
If pot-bellied man had been hiding behind the door when GM went into the room, are we seriously supposed to believe that the door would have opened wide enough for him to enter the room, (which he must have done to see M. lying 'in exactly the same position as we'd left her' and MO effectively confirmed this must have happened, as he couldn't see M. from outside the room) without noticing that the door didn't open properly?
How many more times can they change or re-interpret their stories to try and fit the facts?

I'm not supporting Gerry's story of the abductor being in the room, because there was no abductor :)

Just pointing out that as far as time of death is concerned I'm not convinced that the body would have to have been dead for 90 minutes otherwise the dogs wouldn't have detected. I strongly doubt that any tests have been done using freshly dead 3-4 year old girls in Portugal.

by mouse 21.03.14 11:32

Quote below - Mirage (must add my vote to your posts always making me laugh - even on this very sad issue it has to be said)

Pondering timings here. If I've got this right, the following:

1 Goncalo Amaral gives interview.
2 The CW update unexpectedly scheduled in.
3 Reports of around 250 calls and texts come in.
4 Portugal counters MET criticisms about the sexual predator.
5 A R's Guardian article altered
6 Cameron offers help

Mirage - I would concur with you that this does really feel like a knee jerk reaction - GA's interview goes out - SY put their panic pants on and announce the new CW Madeleine update. Now if I remember this correctly, during the week we had a breaking news story on Claudia Lawrence's disappearance. It was trailed at first as the headline update story on CW that week. We had to tune in to hear more. Now, not one mention of a Madeleine update then. Then, quite suddenly, we get a breaking news story about Madeleine! Claudia's disappearance on the programme had now been relegated, as far as I can see from top billing to 'other story tonight'. This felt all very last minute and for me - just confirmed, particularly when I heard what AR had to say - or more significantly didn't have to say with regard to an update, that this was a bit of panic panting. In other words using the BBC Platform to get their story out to the British Public, rather than GA's side of the story, or the PJ's. Poor Claudia Lawrence - to me it appeared her sad story was quite simply hijacked.

Just my thoughts of course.

PS Keep up the good work Mirage.

by AndyB 21.03.14 11:33

russiandoll wrote:Monteiro's widow has a good case for libel, if he is named in the media as having molested girls if there is no proof that he did so.

comment on latest from textusa :

Our binmen are in a group of at least 4 people and my goodness are they noisy!!!! No wonder the sound of this bin lorry was supposed to be heard in Portugal in the quiet of the early hours of the morning. I’m sure our binmen would be very annoyed if one of them wandered off to have a look in apartments to find one with a child and not just any child but ones between the ages of 7 and 10, British, blonde and a non screamer as well as having parents who wouldn’t call the police while they carried on doing the work emptying bins. Is someone seriously implying that bin lorries in Portugal cover such a huge area that smellyman visited????

I don't know about Portugal but in the UK you can't libel dead people

by HelenMeg 21.03.14 11:35

Anyone know if I can change username without re-registering. I dislike my user name but I cant change it under profile ... sorry to butt in here.. I want to be HenryPeggy instead

by russiandoll 21.03.14 11:40

" I don't know about Portugal but in the UK you can't libel dead people".

Thanks Andy B, food for thought so reading more will be interesting. All I found so far was

In Portugal, defamation constitutes a criminal offense under Article 180 of the Penal Code. Penalty shall constitute six months imprisonment. However, the penalty is aggravated if the offense is committed by means of publicity or social communication, or if the offense is committed against a public official by reason of the performance of his duties.

by Mirage 21.03.14 11:46

HelenMeg wrote:Anyone know if I can change username without re-registering. I dislike my user name but I cant change it under profile ... sorry to butt in here.. I want to be HenryPeggy instead

I hope it's a painless operation! empathy

by russiandoll 21.03.14 11:48

Why does Stinkyman look nothing like Smithman?

by Guest 21.03.14 11:49

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Doug D wrote:WLBTS

But even if you could reduce it to 45 minutes it will still invalidate GM's check, or did he not only fail to see him hiding behind the door, but also failed to smell him (because he had used his aftershave)?
If pot-bellied man had been hiding behind the door when GM went into the room, are we seriously supposed to believe that the door would have opened wide enough for him to enter the room, (which he must have done to see M. lying 'in exactly the same position as we'd left her' and MO effectively confirmed this must have happened, as he couldn't see M. from outside the room) without noticing that the door didn't open properly?
How many more times can they change or re-interpret their stories to try and fit the facts?

I'm not supporting Gerry's story of the abductor being in the room, because there was no abductor :)

Just pointing out that as far as time of death is concerned I'm not convinced that the body would have to have been dead for 90 minutes otherwise the dogs wouldn't have detected. I strongly doubt that any tests have been done using freshly dead 3-4 year old girls in Portugal.

The problem with this wlbs is that the dog was scenting for cadaver odour and not a dead body.
So the body would have to be dead for long enough for the odour to develope sufficiently and then be transfered to the areas detected.
If Eddia was searching for a body then I can understand that the time could be less.

by HelenMeg 21.03.14 11:49

Mirage wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:Anyone know if I can change username without re-registering. I dislike my user name but I cant change it under profile ... sorry to butt in here.. I want to be HenryPeggy instead
I hope it's a painless operation!

Oops yes..never thought about the implications titter

by Newintown 21.03.14 11:51

Euclid Monteiro doesn't look anything like the e-fits of the man that the Smith's family saw carrying a child away from the apartments (and EM is the wrong colour), but the e-fits still resemble GM, there's no getting away from that. If EM got into the McCanns' apartment who was the person in the e-fit carrying the child, it certainly wasn't EM.

Are SY playing silly games, I did notice AR breaking into a grin when he was speaking on CrimeWatch, as if it was all a game to him. Is it a case of look over here, not over there as other people have mentioned in the past. It could be a case of elimination of Stinkyman to tie up all loose ends. After all the newspapers print any old rubbish to up their sales, did AR actually say it was a black man who was seen in the villas, I believe he only said tanned.

If Cameron is getting involved it doesn't necessarily mean he is going to interfere in the case, he may just want to speed up the whole process to get things moving and to lessen some of the time consuming paperwork that has to go to and fro between the PJ and SY, and to come to a conclusion on the case sooner as it has now been 7 years since Madeleine "disappeared".

I'm still keeping my optimist's hat on for the time being. smilie

ETA: Someone did post on the DM website a couple of days ago that they've lived in the Luz area for 30 years and had never heard of any of these incidents of someone molesting children in their bedrooms and that many people would have heard of it happening as news travels fast around the villages.

by noddy100 21.03.14 12:01

It seems this 'intruder' when caught left with no fuss so surely if on one of the checks he had been behind the door he would have been hands up I'm off.

by russiandoll 21.03.14 12:03

from the Mirror, November 2013

Junkie and ex-jailbird Euclides Monteiro was sacked by the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, Portugal, the year before the blonde three-year-old disappeared on May 3, 2007.
Yesterday, as the first picture of the 6ft 2in ex-waiter emerged, detectives were investigating the possibility that he kidnapped Madeleine after being disturbed as he broke into her family’s apartment.
Menteiro, known as Toni, died aged 40 in a tractor accident four years ago.
But phone records have placed him near the flats at the time she vanished. It is believed he may have been raiding guests’ rooms to feed his heroin habit.
His picture looks nothing like two e-fit images issued by Scotland Yard – but police stress they are still exploring every line of inquiry.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-prime-suspect-pictured-2674021#ixzz2wb7hSgWh
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

I did not hear AR say that Stinkyman was described as being tall. Just with a a strange voice and smell, and a pot- belly.

ETA : having seen the photos of Monteiro on these pages this morning, have the police not shown a photo of Monteiro to the children /families and simply asked

DID THE MAN LOOK LIKE THIS ?

by Guest 21.03.14 12:13

russiandoll wrote:from the Mirror, November 2013

Junkie and ex-jailbird Euclides Monteiro was sacked by the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, Portugal, the year before the blonde three-year-old disappeared on May 3, 2007.
Yesterday, as the first picture of the 6ft 2in ex-waiter emerged, detectives were investigating the possibility that he kidnapped Madeleine after being disturbed as he broke into her family’s apartment.
Menteiro, known as Toni, died aged 40 in a tractor accident four years ago.
But phone records have placed him near the flats at the time she vanished. It is believed he may have been raiding guests’ rooms to feed his heroin habit.
His picture looks nothing like two e-fit images issued by Scotland Yard – but police stress they are still exploring every line of inquiry.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-prime-suspect-pictured-2674021#ixzz2wb7hSgWh
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

I did not hear AR say that Stinkyman was described as being tall. Just with a a strange voice and smell, and a pot- belly.

ETA : having seen the photos of Monteiro on these pages this morning, have the police not shown a photo of Monteiro to the children /families and simply asked

DID THE MAN LOOK LIKE THIS ?

Or that he bothered to learn English to talk to his victims.

by Newintown 21.03.14 12:18

russiandoll wrote:from the Mirror, November 2013

Junkie and ex-jailbird Euclides Monteiro was sacked by the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, Portugal, the year before the blonde three-year-old disappeared on May 3, 2007.
Yesterday, as the first picture of the 6ft 2in ex-waiter emerged, detectives were investigating the possibility that he kidnapped Madeleine after being disturbed as he broke into her family’s apartment.
Menteiro, known as Toni, died aged 40 in a tractor accident four years ago.
But phone records have placed him near the flats at the time she vanished. It is believed he may have been raiding guests’ rooms to feed his heroin habit.
His picture looks nothing like two e-fit images issued by Scotland Yard – but police stress they are still exploring every line of inquiry.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-prime-suspect-pictured-2674021#ixzz2wb7hSgWh
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

I did not hear AR say that Stinkyman was described as being tall. Just with a a strange voice and smell, and a pot- belly.

ETA : having seen the photos of Monteiro on these pages this morning, have the police not shown a photo of Monteiro to the children /families and simply asked

DID THE MAN LOOK LIKE THIS ?

The description sounds more like a drunk tourist to me who lost his way back home and couldn't tell one villa from another, although how it got into a strange villa in the dark without falling over anything and making a noise or walking into the wrong room (a broom cupboard for instance instead of a bedroom - happened to me once in a pub when I walked into a broom cupboard instead of the loos, much to the amusement of all my friends) is beyond me, or AR I should imagine.

Did he just flop onto the nearest bed and he was too drunk to realise he was in the wrong place.. Maybe the dustcarts woke him up early, realised what he had done and hot footed it out of the villa before anyone screamed blue murder. big grin

by donkeydoodah 21.03.14 12:22

According to the Mail, SY say Monteiro isn't a strong suspect, link here:

Not a strong suspect

by whatliesbehindthesofa 21.03.14 12:23

dantezebu wrote:
The problem with this wlbs is that the dog was scenting for cadaver odour and not a dead body.
So the body would have to be dead for long enough for the odour to develope sufficiently and then be transfered to the areas detected.
If Eddia was searching for a body then I can understand that the time could be less.

Yes, and my problem is that even with my strong grounding in and respect for science and the scientific method, this particular report giving a 90 minute threshold doesn't fill with me confidence. As I've said before, I very highly doubt that tests have been done on freshly deceased 4 year olds, or even that wide ranging tests have been carried out.

by Newintown 21.03.14 12:30

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
The problem with this wlbs is that the dog was scenting for cadaver odour and not a dead body.
So the body would have to be dead for long enough for the odour to develope sufficiently and then be transfered to the areas detected.
If Eddia was searching for a body then I can understand that the time could be less.

Yes, and my problem is that even with my strong grounding in and respect for science and the scientific method, this particular report giving a 90 minute threshold doesn't fill with me confidence. As I've said before, I very highly doubt that tests have been done on freshly deceased 4 year olds, or even that wide ranging tests have been carried out.

As written on the strapline that goes around the top of this forum, didn't KM mention "how could a dead body that was moved quickly out of the apartment leave a cadaver odour behind" - how would she know if a dead body was moved quickly out of the apartment.

Oops, talk about putting one's foot in one's mouth.

by Guest 21.03.14 12:36

She does that all the time. And he too ...

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