Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: 'Operation Grange' set up by ex-Prime Minister David Cameron
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Very well done Andrew - IMO the response to your E-Fit question is even more significant than the “not strictly true” comment
and both comments cast doubt on the title of this particular thread.....
and both comments cast doubt on the title of this particular thread.....
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
PeterMac wrote:It does sound like Police-speak. Desperately NOT wanting to let anything quotable go out, whilst keeping options open.
His comment about the dogs is strictly correct, as has been pointed out. The dogs merely indicated that a body had been at those locations.
Not that it was Madeleine, and not that she died there. That is deductive reasoning, which needs a human mind.
Redwood's contorted use of language indicated to me someone who desperately wanted to say
"Of course everyone knows she is dead and the body has been concealed. That is obvious even to someone of the meanest intellect . . "
but he can't.
Not yet anyway.
And to me he fouled up his case by not having rehearsed what he was going to say when asked that particular set of questions, and ended up gibbering
in exactly the same way as the Tapasniks did during their rogatories when for the first time some very mild questions were asked of them.
Despite the meeting in Rothley and a general idea of the official story they were still unable to speak coherently,and began to babble and gibber.
And that has been preserved on tape for all time.
As I just posted on the Crimewatch thread, it's sad that for 6 million quid you cannot even come up with good excuses.
____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?" Gerry
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0
http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
ultimaThule wrote:I don't see that the police officer you spoke to 'wanted to dismiss the dogs findings', Andrew, and he was correct to say 'that's not strictly true' when you stated that 'the dogs indicated MBM died in the apartment' as, although one of the EVRD dogs indicated that a corpse had been present behind the sofa and by a bedroom wardrobe, 'the dogs' did not indicate who had died or where and when they met their end.
All in all, I see your conversation as 'indication' that the policeman/parent you spoke to is confident that justice will be done in this case.
I totally agree, Ulti. What the dogs did was indicate that there was the scent of death in the apartment. They didn't say how it got there, or whose scent it was. It's a case of the dogs "saying" we can smell death, it's up to you to find out whose it is. In law one cannot surmise. It has to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Met Police has 'culture of fear', officers say
'There is a "culture of fear" in the Metropolitan Police because of the "draconian" use of performance targets, a report into the force has said'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26878761
So are Grange & Redwood meeting their targets I wonder?
'There is a "culture of fear" in the Metropolitan Police because of the "draconian" use of performance targets, a report into the force has said'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26878761
So are Grange & Redwood meeting their targets I wonder?
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Maybe SY are solely working on abduction theory, whilst PJ are working on accidental death in the
apartment. And then they will join together when the abduction theory is rejected, for the conclusion
of the case.
apartment. And then they will join together when the abduction theory is rejected, for the conclusion
of the case.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Brilliant Andrew!Andrew77R wrote:I rang the number on that website and had a conversation with a policeman from Operation Grange.HelenMeg wrote:http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Madeleine-McCann-Appeal--October-2013/1400020463601/1257246745782
See the appeal info in Scotland Yard website. I find it really bad that they have written
' the abduction of a 3 year old ...'.
I have e-mailed them to request that they amend the wording to 'disappearance'. I just find it insulting to members of the public. Anyway....
Me - the e-fit picture is Gerry Mccann. "policeman - yes we are aware that a lot of people think that"
Me - have you read the original PJ files and why aren't the parents being investigated. "policeman - we cannot comment on any aspect of the investigation"
Me - The dogs indicated that MBM died in the apartment. Policeman "that's not strictly true, i'm not sure where you have got that from?" Me - It's in the original police files, have you actually read them? Policeman - "i'm sorry but i can't comment further"
Me - Do you think this case will ever get solved? Policeman - "as a policeman and a father myself then yes i believe it will"
Me - Can you arrest the Mccanns as they are as guilty as sin? Policeman - "i'm afraid i can't comment on that - goodbye"
I take quite a lot of hope from his reply 'as a policeman and a father myself', as I interpret it, as justice and the child being at the forefront of this investigation. It must be frustrating for the officers of Operation Grange to read the criticism and accusations of cover up and being unable to reply. In a way Andrew, I think this policeman's reply to you says as much as he can, if you were to add extra words to it, it could read 'I'm a dad ffs, and many of the team are parents, do you honestly think we would cover up the death of a child?'. I am taking complete liberty with his words obviously, and using the word 'father' as a signifier, but of course, everything is open to interpretation.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Cristobell wrote:Brilliant Andy!Andrew77R wrote:I rang the number on that website and had a conversation with a policeman from Operation Grange.HelenMeg wrote:http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Madeleine-McCann-Appeal--October-2013/1400020463601/1257246745782
See the appeal info in Scotland Yard website. I find it really bad that they have written
' the abduction of a 3 year old ...'.
I have e-mailed them to request that they amend the wording to 'disappearance'. I just find it insulting to members of the public. Anyway....
Me - the e-fit picture is Gerry Mccann. "policeman - yes we are aware that a lot of people think that"
Me - have you read the original PJ files and why aren't the parents being investigated. "policeman - we cannot comment on any aspect of the investigation"
Me - The dogs indicated that MBM died in the apartment. Policeman "that's not strictly true, i'm not sure where you have got that from?" Me - It's in the original police files, have you actually read them? Policeman - "i'm sorry but i can't comment further"
Me - Do you think this case will ever get solved? Policeman - "as a policeman and a father myself then yes i believe it will"
Me - Can you arrest the Mccanns as they are as guilty as sin? Policeman - "i'm afraid i can't comment on that - goodbye"
Well done Andy
I'll bet inspector plod would have seen fit to 'comment further' had the question been.....
'Are you fully aware the McCanns are totally innocent?'
'Yes, yes indeed, we are fully aware Mr and Mrs McCann are totally innocent!'
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
If I were gutsy to call I would have asked :
Why did you discard Mccanns & friends as Persons of Interest?
What about the dogs findings ? Will police be using dogs in future cases ?
Have you interviewed Brian Kennedy and Ed Smethurst, you might beget some interesting answers and unexpected nugget-leads from them ?
Why did you discard Mccanns & friends as Persons of Interest?
What about the dogs findings ? Will police be using dogs in future cases ?
Have you interviewed Brian Kennedy and Ed Smethurst, you might beget some interesting answers and unexpected nugget-leads from them ?
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
unchained melody wrote:Maybe SY are solely working on abduction theory, whilst PJ are working on accidental death in the
apartment. And then they will join together when the abduction theory is rejected, for the conclusion
of the case.
But WHY are the MET 'SOLELY WORKING ON THE ABDUCTION THEORY'?
To the total 'exclusion' of ALL OTHER 'theories' which could EXPLAIN why Madeleine is not here.
There are 'MANY THEORIES' according to the only 'professional' McCann's hired, PI Dave 'Grabbit' Edgar.
10th February 2010
Gerald McCann: "Where... where, you know... where is... where... where is... where is... where is the child? We're looking for that evidence. Where is the child? What other explanation can explain how she's not here?"
What OTHER 'explanation' indeed, as ASKED by the 'missing' childs own father, GM, other than the sole 'remit' of 'abduction', by the MET, can there be, Mr Redwood?.
I can think of 'some'.
And i'm not a '30 year career' Detective!
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
In response to "Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash"
From an interview with Sky's Martin Brunt
"Martin Brunt An independent report on the Madeleine case was commissioned by a previous Home Secretary. The author, Jim Gamble of the Child Exploitation and online center delivered the report this summer to the new government and its believed he recommends a detailed review but the Home Office won’t tell the McCanns what’s in the CEOP report.
Gerry McCann I don’t see any reason why the contents of that report should not be made available to us. We’ve been very clear all along the way that we’ll only divulge information if and when its valuable to the search and the government know that we have kept lots of information, erm, quiet. So I don’t see, even if there is sensitive elements within it, why we shouldn’t be given it. As Madeleine’s parents I think it is wrong."
What type of "information" has Gerry McCann kept "erm, quiet"?
From an interview with Sky's Martin Brunt
"Martin Brunt An independent report on the Madeleine case was commissioned by a previous Home Secretary. The author, Jim Gamble of the Child Exploitation and online center delivered the report this summer to the new government and its believed he recommends a detailed review but the Home Office won’t tell the McCanns what’s in the CEOP report.
Gerry McCann I don’t see any reason why the contents of that report should not be made available to us. We’ve been very clear all along the way that we’ll only divulge information if and when its valuable to the search and the government know that we have kept lots of information, erm, quiet. So I don’t see, even if there is sensitive elements within it, why we shouldn’t be given it. As Madeleine’s parents I think it is wrong."
What type of "information" has Gerry McCann kept "erm, quiet"?
____________________
Kate McCann "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances"
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Gillyspot wrote:In response to "Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash"
From an interview with Sky's Martin Brunt
"Martin Brunt An independent report on the Madeleine case was commissioned by a previous Home Secretary. The author, Jim Gamble of the Child Exploitation and online center delivered the report this summer to the new government and its believed he recommends a detailed review but the Home Office won’t tell the McCanns what’s in the CEOP report.
Gerry McCann I don’t see any reason why the contents of that report should not be made available to us. We’ve been very clear all along the way that we’ll only divulge information if and when its valuable to the search and the government know that we have kept lots of information, erm, quiet. So I don’t see, even if there is sensitive elements within it, why we shouldn’t be given it. As Madeleine’s parents I think it is wrong."
What type of "information" has Gerry McCann kept "erm, quiet"?
The info he refers to must be just garbage gathered by his PIs, not worth the ink used.
Common sense dictates if he's sensitive-to-the-government info that would be his bargain leverage long ago.
Instead he was repeated rejected by home office and it took Mdm Brooks to plea on his behalf to get the review.
He must think he's an emperor or he's extremely challenged in the intellect department.
To expect to be given data even sensitive data just on plain basis they are Madeleine's parents is ludicrous.
Has it not crossed his mind that may be exactly the reason why they couldn't give him the data?
It's not that he can't go figure, he shows himself to be an arrogant PRAT.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Both the McCanns have delusions of grandeur, imo. I actually think this personality disorder is not uncommon in the higher echelons of the medical profession and indeed in other professions and careers (law/education) which are intensely competitive, hierarchical and hold positions of power over large numbers of other people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions
It really is astonishing how many people that this mediocre couple (and their friends) managed to hoodwink, and for so long too. I only really became suspicious when I saw the media coverage of Tony Bennett after the McCann legal case. I thought: 'what's all this about.'
Given the level and scale of deception and the length of time it has been going on, imo, I wonder what would/will happen if the full and true story ever comes out? Perhaps that is too much to hope for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions
It really is astonishing how many people that this mediocre couple (and their friends) managed to hoodwink, and for so long too. I only really became suspicious when I saw the media coverage of Tony Bennett after the McCann legal case. I thought: 'what's all this about.'
Given the level and scale of deception and the length of time it has been going on, imo, I wonder what would/will happen if the full and true story ever comes out? Perhaps that is too much to hope for.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
j.rob wrote:
Given the level and scale of deception and the length of time it has been going on, imo, I wonder what would/will happen if the full and true story ever comes out? Perhaps that is too much to hope for.
Perhaps they will be given a new pop-up channel dedicated specially for their trial, just like that of Oscar Pistorius.
That's how important the nation views OP's case.
The Mccanns case is not far off if not worst in notoriety.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Gillyspot wrote:In response to "Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash"
From an interview with Sky's Martin Brunt
"Martin Brunt An independent report on the Madeleine case was commissioned by a previous Home Secretary. The author, Jim Gamble of the Child Exploitation and online center delivered the report this summer to the new government and its believed he recommends a detailed review but the Home Office won’t tell the McCanns what’s in the CEOP report.
Gerry McCann I don’t see any reason why the contents of that report should not be made available to us. We’ve been very clear all along the way that we’ll only divulge information if and when its valuable to the search and the government know that we have kept lots of information, erm, quiet. So I don’t see, even if there is sensitive elements within it, why we shouldn’t be given it. As Madeleine’s parents I think it is wrong."
What type of "information" has Gerry McCann kept "erm, quiet"?
The efits to start with.
____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?" Gerry
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0
http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
My post was meant to point out that Gerry thought he had kept something secret & the government were aware (or why would he say it) therefore he could be trusted to keep more of them on behalf of the government.
I am sure that is the gist of what he was saying.
I am sure that is the gist of what he was saying.
____________________
Kate McCann "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances"
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
I read it the same way. GMcC keeping some things secret is hardly a rational argument for the Government releasing confidential information to him and his wife, but G seems to think it should be a clincher nontheless.Gillyspot wrote:My post was meant to point out that Gerry thought he had kept something secret & the government were aware (or why would he say it) therefore he could be trusted to keep more of them on behalf of the government.
I am sure that is the gist of what he was saying.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Gillyspot wrote:In response to "Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash"
From an interview with Sky's Martin Brunt
"Martin Brunt An independent report on the Madeleine case was commissioned by a previous Home Secretary. The author, Jim Gamble of the Child Exploitation and online center delivered the report this summer to the new government and its believed he recommends a detailed review but the Home Office won’t tell the McCanns what’s in the CEOP report.
Gerry McCann I don’t see any reason why the contents of that report should not be made available to us. We’ve been very clear all along the way that we’ll only divulge information if and when its valuable to the search and the government know that we have kept lots of information, erm, quiet. So I don’t see, even if there is sensitive elements within it, why we shouldn’t be given it. As Madeleine’s parents I think it is wrong."
What type of "information" has Gerry McCann kept "erm, quiet"?
And, even worse, which pieces of private information have the McCanns decided to make public because they deem the information shared in good faith to be relevant to the search? Who the hell are they to decide if sensitive information should be released or not? A sure-fire way to ensure all sorts of periphery leads that exist in files but are certain to lead away from the truth are, erm, leaked. Hence the never-ending procession of gaily-coloured we are still seeing today? So that's what Clarrie's been reading. Own opinion.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Gillyspot wrote:My post was meant to point out that Gerry thought he had kept something secret & the government were aware (or why would he say it) therefore he could be trusted to keep more of them on behalf of the government.
I am sure that is the gist of what he was saying.
Oh you mean outside the crime that made Madeleine disappear.
Sorry, I misunderstood you.
I think there will be nothing. Really this conning couple is of no importance. They have nothing on anyone. All their influence is in their head.
____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?" Gerry
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0
http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
I sometimes wonder how much of the God Complex comes into play here. Doctors are among the few left in society to possess a title. We all naturally defer to them, address them by their titles and accept that they know best. In that early interview with Eileen McCann (Gerry's mother), through her tears expresses that she is angry 'doctors' could be targeted in such a way. From this I would perceive that the family have Gerry and Kate on pedestals by virtue of their professional status.j.rob wrote:Both the McCanns have delusions of grandeur, imo. I actually think this personality disorder is not uncommon in the higher echelons of the medical profession and indeed in other professions and careers (law/education) which are intensely competitive, hierarchical and hold positions of power over large numbers of other people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions
It really is astonishing how many people that this mediocre couple (and their friends) managed to hoodwink, and for so long too. I only really became suspicious when I saw the media coverage of Tony Bennett after the McCann legal case. I thought: 'what's all this about.'
Given the level and scale of deception and the length of time it has been going on, imo, I wonder what would/will happen if the full and true story ever comes out? Perhaps that is too much to hope for.
In the case of Gerry, he is the youngest child with 4 doting older siblings. It may be, as often happens with large families, that the older sisters took care of him as he was growing up. The youngest child in such situations can often grow up to be spoilt and demanding adults with little sense of responsibility - he will be accustomed to others doing things for him, including taking the blame. Kate is an only child, she has had the undivided attention of both parents, she hasn't had to fight for what she wanted nor did she had other siblings to take her down a few pegs when she got too big for her boots. Imo, the place an individual has in a family, influences their adult personalities.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
***Cristobell wrote: [...] Imo, the place an individual has in a family, influences their adult personalities.
Oh, absolutely. I won't give you any details of personal experience, because that's what it is: personal. BUT, yeah, right, the place in the family has BIG influences on adult behaviour.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
My mama had her favorites,the eldest and the youngest. the rest of us were,well just the rest of us god rest her soul i shall no longer hold it against her..
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Châtelaine wrote:***Cristobell wrote: [...] Imo, the place an individual has in a family, influences their adult personalities.
Oh, absolutely. I won't give you any details of personal experience, because that's what it is: personal. BUT, yeah, right, the place in the family has BIG influences on adult behaviour.
As the elder sibling of two younger twins I could not agree more. It also influences adults perception of the children.
ETA - This is why I became interested in the whole MBM case.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Link shows: http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Operation-Grange/1400005508791/35434
Posting this as I think it has been updated quite recently
Operation Grange
On 12 May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) announced that, at the request of the Home Secretary, it had agreed to bring its particular expertise to the Madeleine McCann case.
The then Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, considered the request and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do. This was subject to funding being made available by the Home Office, as this case is beyond the MPS's jurisdiction.
The Portuguese authorities retain the lead.
While the MPS will not provide a running commentary on its involvement, known as Operation Grange, it is felt appropriate to make the remit available to the public and it is available in the related publications.
Posting this as I think it has been updated quite recently
Operation Grange
On 12 May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) announced that, at the request of the Home Secretary, it had agreed to bring its particular expertise to the Madeleine McCann case.
The then Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, considered the request and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do. This was subject to funding being made available by the Home Office, as this case is beyond the MPS's jurisdiction.
The Portuguese authorities retain the lead.
While the MPS will not provide a running commentary on its involvement, known as Operation Grange, it is felt appropriate to make the remit available to the public and it is available in the related publications.
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
HelenMeg wrote:
While the MPS will not provide a running commentary on its involvement, known as Operation Grange, it is felt appropriate to make the remit available to the public and it is available in the related publications.
So just WHO is leaking information on the 38,then 41 suspects (burglars, paedos etc) to our lovely MSM? Surely not the saintly McCanns
____________________
Kate McCann "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances"
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Re: Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash
Gillyspot wrote:HelenMeg wrote:
While the MPS will not provide a running commentary on its involvement, known as Operation Grange, it is felt appropriate to make the remit available to the public and it is available in the related publications.
So just WHO is leaking information on the 38,then 41 suspects (burglars, paedos etc) to our lovely MSM? Surely not the saintly McCanns
Guessing it must be Gerry letting go of the info he held on the quiet .... in drip feeds ....
He must have be sitting on a long list of bogus names/suspects waiting for the right occasion to release like hot air balloons.
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: 'Operation Grange' set up by ex-Prime Minister David Cameron
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