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Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash - Page 21 Mm11

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Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash

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Post by petunia 04.04.14 21:25

My mama had her favorites,the eldest and the youngest. the rest of us were,well just the rest of us god rest her soul i shall no longer hold it against her..
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Post by whmon 04.04.14 21:31

Châtelaine wrote:
Cristobell wrote: [...]  Imo, the place an individual has in a family, influences their adult personalities.
***
Oh, absolutely. I won't give you any details of personal experience, because that's what it is: personal. BUT, yeah, right, the place in the family has BIG influences on adult behaviour.

As the elder sibling of two younger twins I could not agree more. It also influences adults perception of the children.

ETA - This is why I became interested in the whole MBM case.

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Post by HelenMeg 04.04.14 22:10

Link shows: http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Operation-Grange/1400005508791/35434
Posting this as I think it has been updated quite recently


Operation Grange
On 12 May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) announced that, at the request of the Home Secretary, it had agreed to bring its particular expertise to the Madeleine McCann case.
The then Commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, considered the request and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do. This was subject to funding being made available by the Home Office, as this case is beyond the MPS's jurisdiction.
The Portuguese authorities retain the lead.
While the MPS will not provide a running commentary on its involvement, known as Operation Grange, it is felt appropriate to make the remit available to the public and it is available in the related publications.
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Post by Gillyspot 04.04.14 22:49

HelenMeg wrote:
While the MPS will not provide a running commentary on its involvement, known as Operation Grange, it is felt appropriate to make the remit available to the public and it is available in the related publications.
 
So just WHO is leaking information on the 38,then 41 suspects (burglars, paedos etc) to our lovely MSM? Surely not the saintly McCanns  winkwink

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Post by aiyoyo 05.04.14 12:06

Gillyspot wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
While the MPS will not provide a running commentary on its involvement, known as Operation Grange, it is felt appropriate to make the remit available to the public and it is available in the related publications.
 
So just WHO is leaking information on the 38,then 41 suspects (burglars, paedos etc) to our lovely MSM? Surely not the saintly McCanns  winkwink


Guessing it must be Gerry letting go of the info he held on the quiet .... in drip feeds ....

He must have be sitting on a long list of bogus names/suspects waiting for the right occasion to release like hot air balloons.
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Post by HelenMeg 11.04.14 19:30

I have checked the SY website again -whereas the MC Cann case used to be quite visual on the website - it is now hard to find unless you search Mc Cann in the search site option.
I notice there have been a few Freedom of Info requests made recently (4th April) :
 One is on the cost of Op Grange:http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2013/october_2013/2013100001453.pdf

  
Freedom of Information Request Reference No:
I note you seek access to
the following information:
The cost of the Madelaine Enquiry

Please find attached information pursuant to your request above.
Q1: What has been the cost to date?
Operation Grange commenced May 2011. The cost
s as at 31/8/2013 was £4.7 million.


Q2: What is the future budget?

The estimated costs for operati
on Grange is £2.5 million per year.
Q3: Where does the money come from?
Operation Grange is funded by the Home Office
as this case was initially beyond the
jurisdiction of the MPS.

There are others but if you are interested best to go and take a look..

Certainly someone has been busy requesting info - good on them!
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Post by HelenMeg 11.04.14 19:38

HelenMeg wrote:I have checked the SY website again -whereas the MC Cann case used to be quite visual on the website - it is now hard to find unless you search Mc Cann in the search site option.
I notice there have been a few Freedom of Info requests made recently (4th April) :
 One is on the cost of Op Grange:http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2013/october_2013/2013100001453.pdf

  
Freedom of Information Request Reference No:
I note you seek access to
the following information:
The cost of the Madelaine Enquiry

Please find attached information pursuant to your request above.
Q1: What has been the cost to date?
Operation Grange commenced May 2011. The cost
s as at 31/8/2013 was £4.7 million.


Q2: What is the future budget?

The estimated costs for operati
on Grange is £2.5 million per year.
Q3: Where does the money come from?
Operation Grange is funded by the Home Office
as this case was initially beyond the
jurisdiction of the MPS.

There are others but if you are interested best to go and take a look..

Certainly someone has been busy requesting info - good on them!
So they estimate the annual costs of Op Grange to be £2.5 million - also I note on another  request for information that asks the length of the operation or deadline - that there is no fixed end date for the review. In theory, then,  this bill (footed buy the Home Office according to SY ) could go on and on. This is just absurd and disgusting. This hideous crime is being investigated by a competent Portuguese Police force - why not leave them to it.Instead, the UK are footing an endless enormous bill on behalf of this 'charade'. It is almost laughable but in fact it is truly inexplicably unpalatable - my vote will be used at the next election tgo support any party other than Labour and now Conservatives. eta spelling mistakes due to anger
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Post by Guest 11.04.14 19:54

Initially beyond the jurisdiction of the MPS ?

Does that mean it is no longer outside that jurisdiction ?
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Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash - Page 21 Empty Is it really a whitewash

Post by PeterMac 02.05.14 18:52

I have borrowed this from somewhere else.

If Operation Grange were really a Whitewash, they would have found an innocent father with a child for SMITHMAN,
and left Tannerman forever untraced.


Or has DCI Redwood boobed ?
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Post by aiyoyo 02.05.14 19:59

PeterMac wrote:I have borrowed this from somewhere else.

If Operation Grange were really a Whitewash, they would have found an innocent father with a child for SMITHMAN,
and left Tannerman forever untraced.


Or has DCI Redwood boobed ?  

Good innit ?
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Post by PeterMac 02.05.14 22:17

aiyoyo wrote:
PeterMac wrote:I have borrowed this from somewhere else.

If Operation Grange were really a Whitewash, they would have found an innocent father with a child for SMITHMAN,
and left Tannerman forever untraced.

Or has DCI Redwood boobed ?  
Good innit ?

More than that.  It is a piece of Brilliant detective strategy by Grange. Or not as the case may be.

Smithman is ruled out as Gerry, because of the impossibility of the Window of Opportunity. Everyone says he was charging around like a mad Muslim bull at 10 pm.
So Smithman is irrelevant.  Either made up, or a father with a child.
Tannerman has been ruled out by Grange, because - well because it was nonsense all along, AND they have traced the man (Yeah !)
So now the McCans have . . errm,  urrr,  umm,   well nothing.

Nobody, No entry, No exit, No forensics, no fingerprints, no witnesses
No broken shutters, no open window, no whooshing curtains, no Last Photo, no recent photo from the family camera,
No witnesses, no  . . .
What they do have isMcMitchell - Lying about watches and mobile phones and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.
Lying and spreading dis-information - which we have proved is a lie - about the Last Photo, and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.
Lying about the Fund, and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.
Lying about sightings in India, and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.
Lying about a whole series of increasingly ludicrous "persons of interest",  and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.

I bet the McCanns now wish they had never set eyes on him, nor M3, Nor Ludicrous-Hellish-Lair-Edgar, nor Haligen, nor any of the others,
particularly the one who got out, and who has told the truth.  Which incidentally has been recorded by those who need to know for posterity.
and for production at the appropriate time.

His name is in the files, so it's not a secret. What he has told is not in the files, though is known to several.  Including Grange !
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Post by Woofer 02.05.14 22:19

PeterMac wrote:I have borrowed this from somewhere else.

If Operation Grange were really a Whitewash, they would have found an innocent father with a child for SMITHMAN,
and left Tannerman forever untraced.


Or has DCI Redwood boobed ?  

Blimey - never thought of it from that perspective - now there's a cheery thought. Thanks  PM.

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Post by Bishop Brennan 03.05.14 3:44

PeterMac wrote:
I bet the McCanns now wish they had never set eyes on him, nor M3, Nor Ludicrous-Hellish-Lair-Edgar, nor Haligen, nor any of the others,
particularly the one who got out, and who has told the truth.  Which incidentally has been recorded by those who need to know for posterity.
and for production at the appropriate time.

His name is in the files, so it's not a secret. What he has told is not in the files, though is known to several.  Including Grange !

A very tantalising end to your most enjoyable post PeterMac!  smilie  "The one who got out and who has told the truth..." It's too early in the morning for my brain, but I'm biting. Any further clues would be most welcome though!

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Post by missbeetle 03.05.14 3:59

...Henri Exton perhaps?
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Post by Bishop Brennan 03.05.14 4:32

missbeetle wrote:...Henri Exton perhaps?

Could be...  he seems to have been the only credible member of the McCann's private team.  Ripped off by Halligen in the end, his reputation and record seem very good.  I suspect that the PJ or SY would take any reports or information he had very seriously indeed.

Born in Belgium in 1951, Exton had been a highly effective undercover officer for the Manchester police. A maverick and dynamic figure, he successfully infiltrated gangs of football hooligans in the 1980's. While not popular among his colleagues, in 1991 he was seconded to work on MI5 undercover operations against drug dealers, gangsters and terrorists, and was later awarded the Queen's Police Medal for 'outstanding bravery'. By all accounts, the charismatic Exton was a dedicated officer.

Are we getting warmer?
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Post by tigger 03.05.14 7:23

PeterMac wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
PeterMac wrote:I have borrowed this from somewhere else.

If Operation Grange were really a Whitewash, they would have found an innocent father with a child for SMITHMAN,
and left Tannerman forever untraced.

Or has DCI Redwood boobed ?  
Good innit ?

More than that.  It is a piece of Brilliant detective strategy by Grange. Or not as the case may be.

Smithman is ruled out as Gerry, because of the impossibility of the Window of Opportunity. Everyone says he was charging around like a mad Muslim bull at 10 pm.
So Smithman is irrelevant.  Either made up, or a father with a child.
Tannerman has been ruled out by Grange, because - well because it was nonsense all along, AND they have traced the man (Yeah !)
So now the McCans have . . errm,  urrr,  umm,   well nothing.

Nobody, No entry, No exit, No forensics, no fingerprints, no witnesses
No broken shutters, no open window, no whooshing curtains, no Last Photo, no recent photo from the family camera,
No witnesses, no  . . .
What they do have isMcMitchell - Lying about watches and mobile phones and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.
Lying and spreading dis-information - which we have proved is a lie - about the Last Photo, and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.
Lying about the Fund, and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.
Lying about sightings in India, and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.
Lying about a whole series of increasingly ludicrous "persons of interest",  and hoping that will make things better, when in fact it has the opposite result.

I bet the McCanns now wish they had never set eyes on him, nor M3, Nor Ludicrous-Hellish-Lair-Edgar, nor Haligen, nor any of the others,
particularly the one who got out, and who has told the truth.  Which incidentally has been recorded by those who need to know for posterity.
and for production at the appropriate time.

His name is in the files, so it's not a secret. What he has told is not in the files, though is known to several.  Including Grange !

That's cheered me up! Although I'm still not convinced of the true remit of operation Grange and as to taking some 3 years to get this far - working from the outside in seems a never-ending task to me. On the other hand, the public at large seems to be getting better informed as to the real facts.

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Why Operation Grange can only be a whitewash - Page 21 Empty SY's

Post by jhansigirl 13.05.14 20:01

Is it possible that the true purpose of OG was to obtain the information that was witheld by the PJ in order to make certain that there is nothing there that could/would 
incriminate / uncover the real protected non-McCann person or persons? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? 

Apologies if this ? has been asked b4?

ETA or even all the evidence files?
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Post by Guest 13.05.14 21:58

jhansigirl wrote:Is it possible that the true purpose of OG was to obtain the information that was witheld by the PJ in order to make certain that there is nothing there that could/would 
incriminate / uncover the real protected non-McCann person or persons? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? 

Apologies if this ? has been asked b4?

ETA or even all the evidence files?
Yep. Not only possible, but I believe probable.
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Post by Guest 13.05.14 23:33

PeterMac wrote:

I have borrowed this from somewhere else.

If Operation Grange were really a Whitewash, they would have found an innocent father with a child for SMITHMAN,
and left Tannerman forever untraced.

It is a piece of Brilliant detective strategy by Grange.

Or not as the case may be.
This story needs physical evidence of an abductor.

From the moment on the evening of 3 May when Madeleine's ripped-apart Activity Sticker Book was used to pen a timeline showing Jane Tanner's sighting of 'Tannerman' - until 9pm on the evening of the Crimewatch programme of 14 October when DCI Andy Redwood spoke in the same breath of both 'Crecheman' and a man seen by an Irish family, 'Smithman', that physical abductor was unquestionably TANNERMAN.

Tanner man did quite well. He survived for a very long time. Despite a veritable mountain of difficulties about Tannerman, in the official version of events, he survived for an amazing 2,356 days.

In a few short seconds, however, amidst dizzy talk of 'drawing everything back to zero' and 'a revelation moment', Redwood had decided, whether brilliantly or not, to ditch Tannerman for Crecheman.

The sighting at 9.15pm by Jane Tanner was NOT the abductor after all.

So, who could repalce him?

ONLY Smithman.

Yet despite the obvious problems with the Smithman sighting, Redwood promoted it, emphasised it and placed it as central to his strategy.

'We must find him'.

'Here are two e-fits of him' (except they weren't).

'Call us about him'.

'Here is our number'.

So long as the mysterious Smithman exists, it is possible to for the Met to close this case with the abductor being named as any person now dead - like Raymond Hewlett.

Or just left open: 'Well, we tried to find Smithman, but for various reasons, incuding the lack of co-operation from the Portuguese police, we've just not been able to'.

But is this not a simple story of 3 INVENTIONS?

INVENTION 1: 3 May 2007 - Jane Tanner invented Tannerman.

INVENTION 2: 16 May 2007 - the day after his friend Robert Murat is made a suspect, Martin Smith invents Smithman. He ('Smithman') goes on to be very useful in Kate's book, 'madeleine', as she devoted 6 pages to saying that Tannerman and Smithman were probably the same.  

And finally...

INVENTION 3: Redwood's non-credible Crecheman, carefully crafted into a Crimewatch programme seen by millions.


From 2009 (Mentorn/Channel 4 documentary) to 2013, the McCanns slowly raised the possibility that Tannerman and Smithman were the same.

On 14 October 2013, Redwood effectively contradicted them, and said: 'No, it's NOT the same person'.

The whole abduction story therefore now hangs on the highly doubtful claims of the Smith family.

And if he really was the abductor, how did he parade, carrying a child through the streets of Praia da Luz, to be seen, it seems, only by one Irish family, and no-one else?   

No wonder Clarence Mitchell once described this as 'a complete mystery'
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Post by PeterMac 14.05.14 8:13

fleffer wrote:
The whole abduction story therefore now hangs on the highly doubtful claims of the Smith family.
And if he really was the abductor, how did he parade, carrying a child through the streets of Praia da Luz, to be seen, it seems, only by one Irish family, and no-one else?   
No wonder Clarence Mitchell once described this as 'a complete mystery'

And now we are being lead to believe that he was carrying, not only a child, but also a pickaxe and shovel, and dug a large hole in the car park which again, no one seems to have noticed !
Do Grange think we are stupid, or are they ?
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Post by Tony Bennett 14.05.14 8:54

PeterMac wrote:
fleffer wrote:
The whole abduction story therefore now hangs on the highly doubtful claims of the Smith family.
And if he really was the abductor, how did he parade, carrying a child through the streets of Praia da Luz, to be seen, it seems, only by one Irish family, and no-one else?   
No wonder Clarence Mitchell once described this as 'a complete mystery'

And now we are being lead to believe that he was carrying, not only a child, but also a pickaxe and shovel, and dug a large hole in the car park which again, no one seems to have noticed !
Do Grange think we are stupid, or are they ?
Yes.

We havem't worked out yet that Smithman had an accomplice (Accomplice-Man) in the vilage, who had already dug a hole, and was ready with a spade (pickaxe no longer needed) to fill it in.

Mind you, Redwood woud then have to explain the following:

* how 'Smithman' (if he ever existed) wandered around Praia da Luz without been seen by anyone apart from the Irish family

* how he wasn't seen or heard abducting anyone and left no forensic trace, and

* why he would steal a child from an apartment, only to bury her an hour later. 

I think the search is on for an 'Accomplice-Man'.

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Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Woofer 14.05.14 9:05

PeterMac wrote:
fleffer wrote:
The whole abduction story therefore now hangs on the highly doubtful claims of the Smith family.
And if he really was the abductor, how did he parade, carrying a child through the streets of Praia da Luz, to be seen, it seems, only by one Irish family, and no-one else?   
No wonder Clarence Mitchell once described this as 'a complete mystery'

And now we are being lead to believe that he was carrying, not only a child, but also a pickaxe and shovel, and dug a large hole in the car park which again, no one seems to have noticed !
Do Grange think we are stupid, or are they ?

But the tide was right out at 10pm - more access to sand or the shingley area beneath the rock.  Not that I believe ANYONE, including the Mcs, could dispose of their dead child in such a way.
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Post by galena 14.05.14 10:12

fleffer wrote:
PeterMac wrote:

I have borrowed this from somewhere else.

If Operation Grange were really a Whitewash, they would have found an innocent father with a child for SMITHMAN,
and left Tannerman forever untraced.

It is a piece of Brilliant detective strategy by Grange.

Or not as the case may be.
This story needs physical evidence of an abductor.

From the moment on the evening of 3 May when Madeleine's ripped-apart Activity Sticker Book was used to pen a timeline showing Jane Tanner's sighting of 'Tannerman' - until 9pm on the evening of the Crimewatch programme of 14 October when DCI Andy Redwood spoke in the same breath of both 'Crecheman' and a man seen by an Irish family, 'Smithman', that physical abductor was unquestionably TANNERMAN.

Tanner man did quite well. He survived for a very long time. Despite a veritable mountain of difficulties about Tannerman, in the official version of events, he survived for an amazing 2,356 days.

In a few short seconds, however, amidst dizzy talk of 'drawing everything back to zero' and 'a revelation moment', Redwood had decided, whether brilliantly or not, to ditch Tannerman for Crecheman.

The sighting at 9.15pm by Jane Tanner was NOT the abductor after all.

So, who could repalce him?

ONLY Smithman.

Yet despite the obvious problems with the Smithman sighting, Redwood promoted it, emphasised it and placed it as central to his strategy.

'We must find him'.

'Here are two e-fits of him' (except they weren't).

'Call us about him'.

'Here is our number'.

So long as the mysterious Smithman exists, it is possible to for the Met to close this case with the abductor being named as any person now dead - like Raymond Hewlett.

Or just left open: 'Well, we tried to find Smithman, but for various reasons, incuding the lack of co-operation from the Portuguese police, we've just not been able to'.

But is this not a simple story of 3 INVENTIONS?

INVENTION 1: 3 May 2007 - Jane Tanner invented Tannerman.

INVENTION 2: 16 May 2007 - the day after his friend Robert Murat is made a suspect, Martin Smith invents Smithman. He ('Smithman') goes on to be very useful in Kate's book, 'madeleine', as she devoted 6 pages to saying that Tannerman and Smithman were probably the same.  

And finally...

INVENTION 3: Redwood's non-credible Crecheman, carefully crafted into a Crimewatch programme seen by millions.


From 2009 (Mentorn/Channel 4 documentary) to 2013, the McCanns slowly raised the possibility that Tannerman and Smithman were the same.

On 14 October 2013, Redwood effectively contradicted them, and said: 'No, it's NOT the same person'.

The whole abduction story therefore now hangs on the highly doubtful claims of the Smith family.

And if he really was the abductor, how did he parade, carrying a child through the streets of Praia da Luz, to be seen, it seems, only by one Irish family, and no-one else?   

No wonder Clarence Mitchell once described this as 'a complete mystery'
But do we really need physical evidence of an abduction?  Ben Needham just vanished without trace - and most people accept as a fact that he was abducted.  Sure all these mysterious people carrying children helped to strengthen the case in the public mind, and bring sympathy for the McCanns.  But I'm not convinced that removing Tannerman and even Smithman from the picture would be enough to convict the McCanns.  In fact I think Redwood did them a favour getting rid of Tannerman and widening the window of opportunity for an actual abduction.
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Post by whatliesbehindthesofa 14.05.14 10:15

fleffer wrote:He ('Smithman') goes on to be very useful in Kate's book, 'madeleine', as she devoted 6 pages to saying that Tannerman and Smithman were probably the same.

As has been discussed before this is simply not true.  There is only the briefest of mentions of Smithman in the back of the book, and no mention whatsoever of the Smiths.  On my e-book reader, a simple search for 'Smith' and 'Smiths' brings up ZERO results.
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Post by Guest 14.05.14 10:31

galena wrote:

In fact I think Redwood did them a favour getting rid of Tannerman and widening the window of opportunity for an actual abduction.
That could be true.

They must of realised that Tannerman was a complete fabrication and not a very good one as well. 

'Don't worry Mr and Mrs McCann. It's clear as day that your friend Jane was talking out of her arse. In fact me and the boys had a good laugh about that as it's absolute nonsense. Anyway, done you a favour. We have removed Tannerman out the equation so it allows more time for this abduction nonsense you have harped on about. You see if it was Tannerman then there would be no window of opportunity for this abduction. Come on Gerry, you should of thought of that. Anyway all is good now. The funny thing is we got Bob who has just joined the team to dress up as Tannerman and we took some pics. Even managed to find some Pyjamas in the M+S over the road that look identical. You owe me a tenner for them by the way. I'm sure the gullible public wont smell a rat about that one.

That Smith sighting is a bugger though. Phone been going off the hook saying its you Gerry. Don't worry though, we will come up with something. We are recruiting Gerry Mccann lookalikes at the moment. We will just do the innocent father thing again. Works a treat. 

Which night can i come round for my tea'
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