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Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by The Rooster on 15.12.13 13:14

I do believe the good Professor is on to something with his Mark Warner damage limitation thoughts. Here's some background info on the business...

Mark Warner Ltd
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[ltr]
Mark Warner is a privately owned British tour operator founded in 1974 by Mark Chitty and Andrew Searle. It is based in London and provides both beach and ski holidays.
The company originally specialised in singles ski holidays but has expanded into family and beach resort holidays. The company started with just one chalet in the Swiss ski resort of Verbier in 1974. Its summer destinations feature 10 beach resorts in Corsica, Egypt, Greece, Portugal, Mauritius, Sardinia and Sri Lanka, plus two in the French Alps.[1] The company's winter programme includes Chalet hotels across the Alps.
Mark Warner's childcare services were criticised in the BBC's Whistleblower programme in February 2008.[2] In the same programme, it was discovered that staff were working illegally in Egypt, using tourist visas instead of work visas.[3] The company subsequently apologised and revised its procedures for hiring staff.[4]


Here's an interesting link to a youtube video of Mark Chitty with the parents...[/ltr]
[ltr]
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VpUgjZoO5y0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVpUgjZoO5y


More reading taken from the Management Today website...


With so much included in the basic price, these holidays do not come cheap. One father wrote MW out a cheque for pounds 22,000 to cover the six weeks that his family of four stayed in the Punta Licosa resort south of Naples last year. And there's no shortage of celebs eager to wield the plastic for the MW fortnight. Recent guests include Dawn French, Ian Hislop, Harriet Harman, Jo Wiley, Martin Bashir and Patsy Palmer.
Its clients are hardly classic package fodder. They are almost totally ABC1 and mostly in the 30 to 45 age bracket, 76% coming from professional backgrounds in southern England, often with a combined household income 'north of pounds 100,000', according to Chitty. These types spend freely in the bars and beauty parlours - one of the few things that costs real money on a MW holiday.


I suspect with 27 years trading and turnover in the 10s of £m's the two partners will have made some serious till. With money comes connections.[/ltr]
[ltr]
Well done the good Professor.[/ltr]

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Guest on 15.12.13 13:17

As an afterthought to Sueps post remarking on the sloppiness of the records;

When we want to find out if Crecheman is for real, then the same problem arises about his childs' presence at the late-night creche: yes or no?

Do we have all the creche records regarding the baby sitting service in the evening of May 3rd?

If we do, we could try to find out who Crecheman COULD have been. If he exists, that is.
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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Guest on 15.12.13 13:19

@The Rooster wrote:I do believe the good Professor is on to something with his Mark Warner damage limitation thoughts. Here's some background info on the business...

Mark Warner Ltd
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[ltr]
Mark Warner is a privately owned British tour operator founded in 1974 by Mark Chitty and Andrew Searle. It is based in London and provides both beach and ski holidays.
The company originally specialised in singles ski holidays but has expanded into family and beach resort holidays. The company started with just one chalet in the Swiss ski resort of Verbier in 1974. Its summer destinations feature 10 beach resorts in Corsica, Egypt, Greece, Portugal, Mauritius, Sardinia and Sri Lanka, plus two in the French Alps.[1] The company's winter programme includes Chalet hotels across the Alps.
Mark Warner's childcare services were criticised in the BBC's Whistleblower programme in February 2008.[2] In the same programme, it was discovered that staff were working illegally in Egypt, using tourist visas instead of work visas.[3] The company subsequently apologised and revised its procedures for hiring staff.[4]


Here's an interesting link to a youtube video of Mark Chitty with the parents...[/ltr]

[ltr]
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VpUgjZoO5y0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVpUgjZoO5y


More reading taken from the Management Today website...


With so much included in the basic price, these holidays do not come cheap. One father wrote MW out a cheque for pounds 22,000 to cover the six weeks that his family of four stayed in the Punta Licosa resort south of Naples last year. And there's no shortage of celebs eager to wield the plastic for the MW fortnight. Recent guests include Dawn French, Ian Hislop, Harriet Harman, Jo Wiley, Martin Bashir and Patsy Palmer.
Its clients are hardly classic package fodder. They are almost totally ABC1 and mostly in the 30 to 45 age bracket, 76% coming from professional backgrounds in southern England, often with a combined household income 'north of pounds 100,000', according to Chitty. These types spend freely in the bars and beauty parlours - one of the few things that costs real money on a MW holiday.


I suspect with 27 years trading and turnover in the 10s of £m's the two partners will have made some serious till. With money comes connections.[/ltr]

[ltr]
Well done the good Professor.[/ltr]

Harriet Harman? Now, where have we seen that name before, just this week?
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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by onehand on 15.12.13 13:35

the creches look like a mark warner thing, but their could be others, not all property on the ocean club is in hands of mark warner, where do those other guests let their children stay. plus people who own or rented property just outside the ocean club.

redwood did not say his version of tannerman was also a mark warner guest or a user of the mark warner creche. or was somebody on the ocean club. so there would not be a need to be on a ocean park guest list or chreche sheet for his child. it could, but not certain. it is not what redwood tells us, it is in what he don't tell. he don't have to lie, he just could leave details out. 

casa liliana would not be the only not ocean park estate out there, there could be lots more. so it could be totally logical if this man was walking into that direction.

so it still could be just a real father that brings his own child back home.

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Cristobell on 15.12.13 14:49

@Monty Heck wrote:Some interesting points Onehand.  The McCs staying on so long at the OC seemed strange at the time and as you point out, their staying on there like ghosts at the feast could surely not have been in the interests of MW either.  It must have been quite disconcerting for guests there to have been quite literally surrounded by the McCs and entourage during early summer 2007, as the numbers who made their way out to PDL were frankly amazing.  Imagine turning up there with your own young family in tow ready for an enjoyable time, only to have the pall of the McC affair so visibly and constantly apparent, not to mention those collection boxes handily displayed for the "fighting fund".  The atmosphere around the pool or restaurant areas with all the relatives  and co. hanging around must have been extremely subdued to say the least It was all so inappropriate on so many levels and on both sides - what on earth were any of them thinking about?

When they did move to other accommodation, they could have rented a villa close enough to the village but in the surrounding countryside where peace and privacy would have been easier to come by.  They opted instead to remain in the village, accessible, visible and complaining about press intrusion.  Seems staying close to the centre of things and keeping an eye on everything was paramount, even at the expense of personal space and privacy.






They did stay a long time didn't they? I have always wondered about their lengthy stay at PDL, and you have raised some interesting points Onehand.

I was trying to do a count up of how many relatives,childhood friends, priests, bridesmaids etc, flew out to support the McCanns while they were in PDL, and of course, who paid for all the flights and accommodation and food? Some if not all of the Tapas group stayed on after the 3rd May - again, I wonder if it was courtesy of Warners?

The circus was clearly of the McCanns own making. I think in grief most of us choose to hide away, unable to face the world. The last thing we want is attention. When the parents of tragic April Jones appeared before the press, it was obvious that the poor mother just wanted it to be over with as quickly as possible so she could get away. Her grief was tangible. So too other parents caught up in tragedy, they cannot say their loved one's name without tears welling up in their eyes. Something we have NEVER seen from Kate and Gerry.

I wonder what the people at Warners really thought about the McCanns and their entourage - especially if they were footing the bill. And why exactly did they need so many people out there? It doesn't appear they were there to assist with physically searching and the twins continued to go to the creche every day until other parents protested - even then there was only a short break.before they returned. I also wonder how long they planned to stay there. At one point Gerry said the twins don't start school for another 3 years (he obviously didn't have much faith in the searching).

When those 'taken in' look back on this story, I wonder if they feel stupid? Naughty I know, but I think Mark Twain explains the problem with this case, far better than I, 'it is easier to fool people, than convince them they have been fooled'.


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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Miraflores on 15.12.13 15:47

.....and the twins continued to go to the creche every day until other parents protested....

What struck me from reading Kate's book, was her annoyance at having to take the children out of the creche because of the other parents' protests, because the twins routine would be disturbed. Not a thought about how the other holiday makers' children would have been upset by the media circus which the McCanns had set in motion.
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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Guest on 15.12.13 17:04

@Cristobell wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:Some interesting points Onehand.  The McCs staying on so long at the OC seemed strange at the time and as you point out, their staying on there like ghosts at the feast could surely not have been in the interests of MW either.  It must have been quite disconcerting for guests there to have been quite literally surrounded by the McCs and entourage during early summer 2007, as the numbers who made their way out to PDL were frankly amazing.  Imagine turning up there with your own young family in tow ready for an enjoyable time, only to have the pall of the McC affair so visibly and constantly apparent, not to mention those collection boxes handily displayed for the "fighting fund".  The atmosphere around the pool or restaurant areas with all the relatives  and co. hanging around must have been extremely subdued to say the least It was all so inappropriate on so many levels and on both sides - what on earth were any of them thinking about?

When they did move to other accommodation, they could have rented a villa close enough to the village but in the surrounding countryside where peace and privacy would have been easier to come by.  They opted instead to remain in the village, accessible, visible and complaining about press intrusion.  Seems staying close to the centre of things and keeping an eye on everything was paramount, even at the expense of personal space and privacy.






They did stay a long time didn't they?  I have always wondered about their lengthy stay at PDL, and you have raised some interesting points Onehand.

I was trying to do a count up of how many relatives,childhood friends, priests, bridesmaids etc, flew out to support the McCanns while they were in PDL, and of course, who paid for all the flights and accommodation and food?  Some if not all of the Tapas group stayed on after the 3rd May - again, I wonder if it was courtesy of Warners?

The circus was clearly of the McCanns own making.  I think in grief most of us choose to hide away, unable to face the world.  The last thing we want is attention.  When the parents of tragic April Jones appeared before the press, it was obvious that the poor mother just wanted it to be over with as quickly as possible so she could get away.  Her grief was tangible.  So too other parents caught up in tragedy, they cannot say their loved one's name without tears welling up in their eyes.  Something we have NEVER seen from Kate and Gerry.  

I wonder what the people at Warners really thought about the McCanns and their entourage - especially if they were footing the bill.  And why exactly did they need so many people out there?  It doesn't appear they were there to assist with physically searching and the twins continued to go to the creche every day until other parents protested - even then there was only a short break.before they returned.  I also wonder how long they planned to stay there.  At one point Gerry said the twins don't start school for another 3 years (he obviously didn't have much faith in the searching).  

When those 'taken in' look back on this story, I wonder if they feel stupid?  Naughty I know, but I think Mark Twain explains the problem with this case, far better than I,  'it is easier to fool people, than convince them they have been fooled'.  


Hello Christobell,

A question: did other parents protest at the twins attending the creche? Where is that documented?

During the extended stay, there must have been massive registration of the Mecs activities, by MW, if only to account for their food&beverage.
Are these on record somewhere? Could be interesting. I remember something of GM coming to the front desk and requesting 4 bottles of white wine free
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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Monty Heck on 15.12.13 20:38

@Miraflores wrote:
.....and the twins continued to go to the creche every day until other parents protested....

What struck me from reading Kate's book, was her annoyance at having to take the children out of the creche because of the other parents' protests, because the twins routine would be disturbed. Not a thought about how the other holiday makers' children would have been upset by the media circus which the McCanns had set in motion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There seemed to be no thought about other holiday makers period, nor of the effect "the entourage" was having on the OC so it does seem strange it took so long before MW finally asked them to leave.  Perhaps MW initally thought the McCs would naturally want to leave quite quickly, and find accommodation with some privacy and at the same time afraid it would look bad to turn out the suffering parents.  It seems unthinkable that they would want to stay in the midst of holidaying families under those circumstances so MW may not have imagined they would dream of staying on the way they did.

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Mirage on 15.12.13 23:32

@Monty Heck wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:
.....and the twins continued to go to the creche every day until other parents protested....

What struck me from reading Kate's book, was her annoyance at having to take the children out of the creche because of the other parents' protests, because the twins routine would be disturbed. Not a thought about how the other holiday makers' children would have been upset by the media circus which the McCanns had set in motion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There seemed to be no thought about other holiday makers period, nor of the effect "the entourage" was having on the OC so it does seem strange it took so long before MW finally asked them to leave.  Perhaps MW initally thought the McCs would naturally want to leave quite quickly, and find accommodation with some privacy and at the same time afraid it would look bad to turn out the suffering parents.  It seems unthinkable that they would want to stay in the midst of holidaying families under those circumstances so MW may not have imagined they would dream of staying on the way they did.

From Bridget O'Donnell's Guardian article 14th Dec 2007: -

"Saturday came, our last day. While we waited for the airport coach to pick us up, we gathered round the toddler pool by Tapas, making small talk in front of the children. I watched my baby son and daughter closely, shamefully grateful that I could.


We had not seen the McCanns since Thursday, when suddenly they appeared by the pool. The surreal limbo of the past two days suddenly snapped back into painful, awful realtime. It was a shock: the physical transformation of these two human beings was sickening - I felt it as a physical blow. Kate's back and shoulders, her hands, her mouth had reshaped themselves in to the angular manifestation of a silent scream. I thought I might cry and turned so that she wouldn't see. Gerry was upright, his lips now drawn into a thin, impenetrable line. Some people, including Jes, tried to offer comfort. Some gave them hugs. Some stared at their feet, words eluding them. We all wondered what to do. That was the last time we saw Gerry and Kate."

Crikey!

Table of events:
Thursday 3rd/ Fri 4th:  MM gone and all night search by others than her parents.
Saturday 5th:   (guessing it is probably the  morning as it was the O'Donnell travel day) The Mecs appear down at the pool.

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Guest on 16.12.13 0:37

I've said so many times regarding O'Donnel's Guardian piece: read between the lines ...
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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by jeanmonroe on 16.12.13 0:40

Mirage
Crikey!
Table of events:
Thursday 3rd/ Fri 4th: MM gone and all night search by others than her parents.
Saturday 5th: (guessing it is probably the morning as it was the O'Donnell travel day) The Mecs appear down at the pool.
...................................................................................................................

FOLLOWED CLOSELY TO THE POOLSIDE BY COUNTLESS FREELOADERS RELATIVES, FROM THE UK, WHO HAD ALL BROUGHT THEIR SWIMMING COSSIES, READY TO DESPERATELY 'SEARCH' FOR FAMILY MEMBER MADELEINE.

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Guest on 16.12.13 0:42

I've seen photos of them, enjoying themselves at the pool, early May. But I cannot find them anymore. Whooshed?
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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by notlongnow on 16.12.13 0:45

Châtelaine wrote:I've said so many times regarding O'Donnel's Guardian piece: read between the lines ...









Can you explain please.

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by tigger on 16.12.13 5:44

Châtelaine wrote:I've said so many times regarding O'Donnel's Guardian piece: read between the lines ...

Hmmm, but at the same time she tried to launch a literary career on it I think. Just as well thatdidn't happen, I'm still reeling from:' her mouth had reshaped themselves in to the angular manifestation of a silent scream.'

A random collection of words without meaning.   Or words of which she does not know the meaning.

BOD was presumably also in PdL in relation to her partnership in the new estate agency.

Doesn't she say in that article that she admired the McCs for leaving their children alone?  sad 

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by suep on 16.12.13 6:24

@Portia wrote:As an afterthought to Sueps post remarking on the sloppiness of the records;

When we want to find out if  Crecheman is for real, then the same problem arises about his childs' presence at the late-night creche: yes or no?

Do we have all the creche records regarding the baby sitting service in the evening of May 3rd?

If we do, we could try to find out who Crecheman COULD have been. If he exists, that is.


Excellent point, Portia!

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Guest on 16.12.13 8:20

Châtelaine wrote:I've said so many times regarding O'Donnel's Guardian piece: read between the lines ...

I agree that would be infinitely preferable to reading it verbatim. Her words read like those of the "clever" kid at school, trying too hard as always.
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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by lj on 22.12.13 16:45

@Miraflores wrote:
.....and the twins continued to go to the creche every day until other parents protested....

What struck me from reading Kate's book, was her annoyance at having to take the children out of the creche because of the other parents' protests, because the twins routine would be disturbed. Not a thought about how the other holiday makers' children would have been upset by the media circus which the McCanns had set in motion.

Don't forget the day the , God forbid, they had to pick up the twins themselves, since nobody was available to do that for them.

Says all you need to know.

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 22.12.13 16:49

@lj wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:
.....and the twins continued to go to the creche every day until other parents protested....

What struck me from reading Kate's book, was her annoyance at having to take the children out of the creche because of the other parents' protests, because the twins routine would be disturbed. Not a thought about how the other holiday makers' children would have been upset by the media circus which the McCanns had set in motion.

Don't forget the day the , God forbid, they had to pick up the twins themselves, since nobody was available to do that for them.

Says all you need to know.

These McCannisms and attitudes truly are selfish and sickening.

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by Guest on 22.12.13 18:11

@Smokeandmirrors wrote: [...]
These McCannisms and attitudes truly are selfish and sickening.
***
And they're so self-centered, that they don't even realise how this reads to other people ...
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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by magrat70 on 22.12.13 21:39

Châtelaine wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote: [...]
These McCannisms and attitudes truly are selfish and sickening.
***
And they're so self-centered, that they don't even realise how this reads to other people ...

Most people are normal and would understand why other people are upset, if you score on the psychopathy scale you will have no empathy to understand why. This amongst other things has persuaded me that at least 1 of them is a psychopath and both seem to have a degree of narcissistic personality, which is probably fairly common in the medical profession. For them to understand would be like your dog understanding that eating chocolate will kill it.

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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by suep on 23.12.13 6:18

@magrat70 wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote: [...]
These McCannisms and attitudes truly are selfish and sickening.
***
And they're so self-centered, that they don't even realise how this reads to other people ...

Most people are normal and would understand why other people are upset, if you score on the psychopathy scale you will have no empathy to understand why. This amongst other things has persuaded me that at least 1 of them is a psychopath and both seem to have a degree of narcissistic personality, which is probably fairly common in the medical profession. For them to understand would be like your dog understanding that eating chocolate will kill it.

Men are statistically more likely to have this kind of psychopathology than women. From all the material available about the McCs that I've looked at I'm now inclined to think that Gerry may have Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). This is by no means a professional 'diagnosis' because I'm not qualified to make that kind of comment. Its merely based on my own personal experience of living with (and thankfully escaping from many years ago) someone with this condition and the way that watching Gerry perform on some of the video footage I've seen has brought back to me some very unwelcome emotions I thought I'd dealt with years ago. Its important to bear in mind that I'm not basing this on any objective, scientific knowledge so I won't be offended by anyone who rejects it as subjective nonsense! For anyone interested, the following is taken from Sam Vaknin's Malignant Self Love. Its available online if you Google his name. He's something of an expert on NPD being a self-confessed sufferer himself. Apologies for the length of this post.
" 75% of narcissists are men. To a narcissist, love is interchangeable with other emotions, such as awe, respect, admiration, attention, or even being feared (collectively known as Narcissistic Supply). Some narcissists are high achievers with proven track records. Some of them are pillars of their communities. Mostly, they are dynamic and successful. Still, they are ridiculously pompous and inflated personalities, bordering on the farcical and provoking resentment... The narcissist is the guru at the centre of a cult. Like other gurus, he demands complete obedience from his flock: his spouse, his offspring, other family members, friends, and colleagues. He feels entitled to adulation and special treatment by his followers. He punishes the wayward and the straying lambs. He enforces discipline, adherence to his teachings, and common goals...The – often involuntary – members of the narcissist's mini-cult inhabit a twilight zone of his own construction. He imposes on them a shared psychosis, replete with persecutory delusions, "enemies", mythical narratives, and apocalyptic scenarios if he is flouted...The narcissist is a micro-manager. He exerts control over the minutest details and behaviours. He punishes severely and abuses withholders of information and those who fail to conform to his wishes and goals...The narcissist invests an inordinate time in substantiating his tales, collecting "evidence", defending his version of events, and in re-interpreting reality to fit his scenario. As a result, most narcissists are self-delusional, obstinate, opinionated, and argumentative. The narcissist's lies are not goal-orientated. This is what makes his constant dishonesty both disconcerting and incomprehensible. The narcissist lies at the drop of a hat, needlessly, and almost ceaselessly
The narcissist makes clear, from the very beginning, that it is his way or the highway. His aggression – even violent streak – is close to the surface. He may be charming in a first encounter – but even then there are tell-tale signs of pent-up abuse. His interlocutors sense this impending threat and avoid conflict by acquiescing with the narcissist's fairy tales. Thus he imposes his private universe and virtual reality on his milieu – sometimes with disastrous consequences...The narcissist claims to be infallible, superior, talented, skilful, omnipotent, and omniscient. He often lies and confabulates to support these unfounded claims. Within his cult, he expects awe, admiration, adulation, and constant attention commensurate with his outlandish stories and assertions. He reinterprets reality to fit his fantasies.
His thinking is dogmatic, rigid, and doctrinaire. He does not countenance free thought, pluralism, or free speech and doesn't brook criticism and disagreement.
He forces the participants in his cult to be hostile to critics, the authorities, institutions, his personal enemies, or the media – if they try to uncover his actions and reveal the truth. He closely monitors and censors information from the outside.
He is always on the lookout for new recruits – his spouse's friends, his daughter's girlfriends, his neighbours, new colleagues at work. He immediately attempts to "convert" them to his "creed" – to convince them how wonderful and admirable he is. In other words, he tries to render them Sources of Narcissistic Supply.
Often, his behaviour on these "recruiting missions" is different to his conduct within the "cult". In the first phases of wooing new admirers and proselytising to potential "conscripts" – the narcissist is attentive, compassionate, empathic, flexible, self-effacing, and helpful. At home, among the "veterans" he is tyrannical, demanding, wilful, opinionated, aggressive, and exploitative.
As the leader of his congregation, the narcissist feels entitled to special amenities and benefits not accorded the "rank and file". He expects to be waited on hand and foot, to make free use of everyone's money and dispose of their assets liberally, and to be cynically exempt from the rules. He often casts himself as the heroic victim In extreme cases, the narcissist feels (martyr) of dark and stupendous forces.
He often feels above the law – any kind of law. This grandiose and haughty conviction leads to criminal acts, incestuous or polygamous relationships, and recurrent friction with the authorities.Hence the narcissist's panicky and sometimes violent reactions to "dropouts" from his cult. There's a lot going on that the narcissist wants kept under wraps...Most narcissists react defensively. They become conspicuously indignant, aggressive, and cold. They detach emotionally for fear of yet another (narcissistic) injury. They devalue the person who made the disparaging remark, the critical comment, the unflattering observation, the innocuous joke at the narcissist's expense.
By holding the critic in contempt, by diminishing the stature of the discordant conversant – the narcissist minimises the impact of the disagreement or criticism on himself. This is a defence mechanism known as cognitive dissonance.Like a trapped animal, the narcissist is forever on the lookout: was this comment meant to demean him? Was this utterance a deliberate attack?
Take, for example, the narcissist’s family. Narcissists often instruct, order, or threaten their children into hiding the truth of abuse, malfunction, maladaptation, fear, pervasive sadness, violence, mutual hatred and mutual repulsion which are the hallmarks of the narcissistic family.
"Not to wash the family's dirty linen in public" is a common exhortation. The whole family conforms to the fantastic, grandiose, perfect and superior narrative invented by the narcissist. Criticising, disagreeing, or exposing these fictions and lies, penetrating the family's facade, are considered to be mortal sins. The sinner is immediately subjected to severe and constant emotional harassment, guilt and blame, and to abuse, including physical abuse. This state of things is especially typical of families with sexual abuse. The first thing to crumble in the narcissist's family is this shared psychosis - the mass denial and the secretiveness so diligently cultivated by him.
The narcissist feels threatened by arrival of new family members – he tries to assimilate or annex his offspring – he obtains Narcissistic Supply from them – he overvalues and idealizes these new found sources but as these sources grow older and independent, they question or resist his behaviours and the narcissist then devalues them – he feels stifled and trapped, becomes paranoid – the narcissist rebels and the family disintegrates...All other aspects of child-rearing are considered by the narcissist to be repulsive: the noises, the smells, the invasion of his space, the nuisance, the dangers, the long term commitment and, above all, the diversion of his partner’s attention and admiration from the narcissist to his offspring. The narcissist envies his successful offspring as he would any other competitor for adulation and attention.
The narcissist's inability to acknowledge and abide by the personal boundaries set by others puts the child at heightened risk of abuse - verbal, emotional, physical, and, often, sexual. His possessiveness and panoply of indiscriminate negative emotions - transformations of aggression, such as rage and envy - hinder his ability to act as a "good enough" parent. His propensities for reckless behaviour, substance abuse, and sexual deviance endanger the child's welfare, or even his or her life.
Narcissists are misogynists. They team up with women who serve as Sources of SNS (Secondary Narcissistic Supply). The woman's chores are to accumulate past Narcissistic Supply (by witnessing the narcissist's "moments of glory") and release it in an orderly manner. Most of them are asexual (desire sex very rarely, if at all). They hold women in contempt and abhor the thought of being really intimate with them. Usually, they choose for partners submissive women whom they disdain for being well below their intellectual level. Many narcissists tend to frustrate women. They refrain from having sex with them, tease them and then leave them, resist flirtatious and seductive behaviours and so on. The narcissist divides all women to saints and whores. He finds it difficult to have sex ("dirty", "forbidden", "punishable", "degrading") with feminine significant others (spouse, intimate girlfriend). To him, sex and intimacy are mutually exclusive rather than mutually expressive propositions. Narcissists of all stripes do regard the "subjugation" of an attractive woman to be a Source of Narcissistic Supply, though. Such conquests are status symbols, proofs of virility, and they allow the narcissist to engage in "vicarious" narcissistic behaviours, to express his narcissism through the "conquered" women, transforming them into instruments at the service of his narcissism.
To live with a narcissist is an arduous and eroding task. Narcissists are infinitely pessimistic, bad-tempered, paranoid and sadistic in an absent-minded and indifferent manner. Their daily routine is a rigmarole of threats, complaints, hurts, eruptions, moodiness and rage. Such an unpredictable but always bilious and festering ambience, typical of the narcissist's "romantic" liaisons is hardly conducive to love or sex. Gradually, both become extinct. Relationships are hollowed out. Imperceptibly, the narcissist switches to asexual co-habitation.The narcissist is a lonely wolf. He is a shaky platform, indeed, on which to base a family, or plans for the future."




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Re: Dr. Roberts again: The Illusionists

Post by silverdoe on 27.04.17 4:23

I think MW were just bending over backwards because of the vase amount of media coverage that happened SO quickly and they didn't want to be accused of being to blame, so, either the McCann's camp said 'the door wouldn't lock properly it's your fault' and they panicked, or, they just simply panicked so they wouldn't say that. You can bet your life the McCann's got everything they wanted after that, as for the creche' nanny? She's a friend of Maddie's godfather's daughter, and Cat Baker is still in contact with Kate and Gerry today. Also, didn't Kate always go by Healy, not McCann? Would she of signed K McCann? Would she of been more particular being a doctor who sign their names repeatedly out of habit's on patient forms ect. The same way. Were those signatures compared to other's she may of done? Had Kate really filled in the creche' signing in and out forms? Check past signatures then decide
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