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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Dr Martin Roberts - NO WAY OUT

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Post by Casey5 08.07.13 15:59

EXCLUSIVE to mccannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
08 July 2013



NO WAY OUT

With Scotland Yard in hot pursuit of thirty-eight 'persons of interest', all of whom were in Portugal on the night of May 3, 2007, apparently, one must assume that there is some plausible connection between one or more of these individuals and the sequestration of a minor from her bed in Praia da Luz that night. In point of fact there were rather more than thirty-eight people in Portugal at the time, any one of whom might have some, as yet unrecognised connection to, or knowledge of, dark deeds in the Algarve.

But all of this rather pre-supposes that a crime of abduction was committed in the first instance. Whilst there are 'experts' walking among us, who are only too happy to write books, give media interviews etc., covering subjects for which the supposedly known photographic evidence is demonstrably fake, i.e. a hoax (e.g., the nephilim giants), it cannot be difficult to appreciate that the interrogation of thirty-eight (give or take as many as you like) over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, can only serve a true purpose if the child was actually abducted in the first place.

Unless money is no object, the most cost-effective way for Metropolitan Police to narrow the scope of their review-turned-investigation into Madeleine's disappearance must be to consolidate their position as to the nature of any crime committed against her. That was the approach taken by the Portuguese (surprise, surprise) in their original investigation, encouraged not just by the indications of trained sniffer dogs, but by the earlier input of UK based expertise, in the form of the NPIA's National Search Adviser, Mark Harrison MBE. Surely his voice must count for something, even in the face of absolute refusal to entertain interpretation of the dogs' behaviour subsequently.

"There is no evidence Madeleine is dead".

But that, as both the McCanns and DCI Redwood should know, does not constitute evidence she is alive. Equally, there is no evidence that she was abducted, which, likewise, is insufficient to prove she was not. But what, therefore, should one make of evidence that abduction, under the circumstances understood and at the very specific time alluded to by the only possible witnesses in the vicinity, could not have occurred? Such evidence clearly does not exist in the PJ files under the discrete heading 'evidence against', but it can be adduced. What is more, an evidence based argument, however persuasive, carries only the weight of probability. A logical proof, on the other hand, confers absolute certainty.

Earlier essays (Crystal Clear, Another Story) examined the circumstances in question, arriving at the conclusion that the putative abductor's biggest challenge was not getting into apartment 5A, but getting out again. And if they failed to do so by the time they were 'spotted' in the street by Jane Tanner then that incident itself could not have occurred. Crucial to any such conclusion is not the status of the patio door to the apartment but that of the front door, which various statements (e.g., those of Russell O'Brien, Matthew Oldfield and, importantly, Gerry McCann) inform us was locked, in which case a key would have been required in order to enter or exit the apartment that way.

Ah, but Gerry changed his mind. From: 'The deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked', to: 'Concerning the front door, although he is certain that it was closed, it is unlikely that it was locked, because they left through the back door'. Not exactly a categorical volte face you will notice. Nor is there a genuine causal relationship between synchronously unlocked doors.

'But this is all uncertainty, not evidence! Whe... Whe... Where is the evidence'?

It exists in the form of a book, and a statement therein which confirms that the front door to apartment 5A was locked on the night of May 3, 2007. That being the case, our hypothetical abductor of Madeleine McCann could not have exited the apartment without being seen by the two gentlemen conversing at the foot of the back stairs or, for that matter, in order to be seen by Jane Tanner. Basically he could not get out. And if he did not get out, then he did not get in either.

The book in question is 'Madeleine' by Kate McCann and the crucial statement is as follows:

"For a long while we would assume that the abductor had entered and exited through the window of the children's bedroom, but it is equally possible that he used the patio doors or even had a key to the front door."

The equation of possibilities here is perfectly clear. Any of three access points may have been utilised, including the front door, provided the intruder had a key. But why should he have needed a key to enter through an unlocked door? The implication is unmistakable. The front door was locked. But that would not have deterred anyone in possession of a key. Unfortunately for the McCanns' belief in abduction, it is not equally possible that he had a key to the front door.

As David Payne explains in his rogatory interview:

"...essentially you needed the key you know, to use, if I remember to gain access into the, err into the apartment, and you know generally it was difficult because there was, you know we'd ask about more than one key, there was the only one key to the apartment."

There was only one key to the apartment and the abductor did not have it.

He could not, therefore did not, exit the apartment with a child in his arms in the two or three minutes between Gerry McCann's last 'check' on the children and Jane Tanner's 'sighting'. Nor did he leave the apartment afterwards, carrying Madeleine past the Smiths. The child they witnessed was wearing the wrong pyjamas. And since the intending abductor was not discovered inside the apartment subsequently then he was not there at all.

Without an abductor there can have been no abduction, but thirty-eight people, at least, were in Portugal that night.
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Post by jd 08.07.13 16:11

"There was only one key to the apartment and the abductor did not have it."...brilliant!

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Post by lufc50337 08.07.13 17:02

Exactly he couldn't have come out the patio door as GM and JW there, he couldn't have come out the front door as no key and he would I assume have left some evidence and/or been seen if he'd climbed out of the window (presuming he could with a child in his arms),GM and JW would certainly have heard the shutters going and they didn't.

With their timeline and evidence they have made abduction an impossibility.
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Post by PeterMac 08.07.13 17:40

sally66 wrote:Exactly he couldn't have come out the patio door as GM and JW there, he couldn't have come out the front door as no key and he would I assume have left some evidence and/or been seen if he'd climbed out of the window (presuming he could with a child in his arms),GM and JW would certainly have heard the shutters going and they didn't.

With their timeline and evidence they have made abduction an impossibility.
That is the fascinating thing, is it not.
It is the McCanns insistence that JT's sighting was of the "abductor" which makes it impossible.
I have no doubt JT thought she was helping, but instead she has damned them for all time. Trapped them in the black hole of 1 minute and 20 seconds
If at any stage they had said JT probably saw a father taking his child home from the creche, and it wasn't very important, they would have given him / her / it an hour.
But they didn't, and they still don't.
And I don't understand why.
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Post by Liz Eagles 08.07.13 17:46

No-one with any logic understands PeterMac. That's what keeps me on this forum seeking justice for a little girl surrounded by lies and deceit.
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Post by ProfessorPPlum 08.07.13 18:00

Great piece Dr. Robert(s)
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Post by PeterMac 08.07.13 18:10

aquila wrote:No-one with any logic understands PeterMac. That's what keeps me on this forum seeking justice for a little girl surrounded by lies and deceit.
But even their highly paid lawyers have not taken them to one side and said "Look, if you say JT might not have seen Madeleine we can help you."
That is not asking them to lie, merely to allow a different interpretation to be put on what JT said.
But for some reason they were fixated, and remain adamant, that bundleman was the "Abductor".

I suppose one consequence of admitting that JT did not see M, would be that the Smith sighting of the man wearing GM's trousers would assume a much greater significance than they wanted.
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Post by bobbin 08.07.13 18:12

sally66 wrote:Exactly he couldn't have come out the patio door as GM and JW there, he couldn't have come out the front door as no key and he would I assume have left some evidence and/or been seen if he'd climbed out of the window (presuming he could with a child in his arms),GM and JW would certainly have heard the shutters going and they didn't.

With their timeline and evidence they have made abduction an impossibility.
No Key? Unless of course the now "2 dimensional Flat-abductor-man" (as Gerry insists rotfl ) had used :-
(a) a 'cleaner's skeleton key', (to clean the apartment whilst he was at it?)
(b) a 'copy' which previous users had surreptitiously had made, (so that's where the bar of soap went)
(c) a 'spare' one that the actual owners had lent out to the local 'paedophile club'
(d) a 'lost' one, found by an errant childless passer-by, which fortunately had the apartment address written on it
(e) the 'one' that the owners used themselves to enter the apartment, because they thought it would be a jolly good ruse to 'fake an abduction' to surprise the absent parents when they got back, drunk. (Don't forget Dianne Webster thought it was yet another one of those silly games).
Alternatively, if the abductor had just waited a few minutes until Gerry and Jez had stopped gabbling about tennis swings and for Jane to slip by invisibly and silently, then he could have left, down the steps and out of the gate, in peace. That way, he wouldn't have been spied by Jane (for all that was worth, she didn't even tell anybody)
He will have known that Gerry would not be coming back to the apartment and catch him 'red-handed' on the patio, a chloroformed child across his arms, because he had just been hiding in a very 'flat' sort of manner behind the children's bedroom door whilst Gerry was having a p*ss.
Funny how Gerry didn't smell any chloroform when he was standing beside Maddie's bed, admiring her in her gentle sleep.
And yet the chloroform must have been administered whilst Gerry was still in the flat because Jane saw the 'flatman' already across the car park and heading along the top road.
The timeline is as tight a fit as was the space for the abductor behind the open bedroom door, but in the world of complete 'Kate and utter make-believe', everything is possible.spin
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Post by Liz Eagles 08.07.13 18:13

PeterMac wrote:
aquila wrote:No-one with any logic understands PeterMac. That's what keeps me on this forum seeking justice for a little girl surrounded by lies and deceit.
But even their highly paid lawyers have not taken them to one side and said "Look, if you say JT might not have seen Madeleine we can help you."
That is not asking them to lie, merely to allow a different interpretation to be put on what JT said.
But for some reason they were fixated, and remain adamant, that bundleman was the "Abductor".

I suppose one consequence of admitting that JT did not see M, would be that the Smith sighting of the man wearing GM's trousers would assume a much greater significance than they wanted.

 Lawyers and the truth are not great bed fellows. Poor, poor Madeleine McCann.

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Post by Monty Heck 08.07.13 18:33

Casey5 Today at 3:59 pm



08 July 2013



EXCLUSIVE to mccannfiles.com



By Dr Martin Roberts



Unless money is no object, the most cost-effective way for Metropolitan Police to narrow the scope of their review-turned-investigation into Madeleine's disappearance must be to consolidate their position as to the nature of any crime committed against her. That was the approach taken by the Portuguese (surprise, surprise) in their original investigation, encouraged not just by the indications of trained sniffer dogs, but by the earlier input of UK based expertise, in the form of the NPIA's National Search Adviser, Mark Harrison MBE. Surely his voice must count for something, even in the face of absolute refusal to entertain interpretation of the dogs' behaviour subsequently.

Money does appear to be no object, given the amount already invested in the SY review phase and unlimited budget for the post review investigative phase we are told is about to commence.  Perhaps that is the reason why, instead of taking a similar approach to the Portuguese as above, SY plan to find and interview 38 people believed to be in Portugal on 3 May 2007, perhaps none of whom will have any connection with the case. 

It is not a cost effective and certainly not the most cost effective way for SY to narrow the scope of their investigation; at this time conversely they appear to be broadening its scope.   Testing the evidence of the T9 was where the previous investigation had to be left off and there must be some logic in SY looking first at this group and then ruling them officially out of the equation if there is compelling evidence that says none of them were involved.  This is the perennial problem with this case - the UK "establishment" for want of a better description seems to want to find a fast track to ruling out the T9, without actually taking any action to investigate them, far less rule any of them out.  Until that great day dawns, suspicion will continue to hang like a pall over these individuals.  If I were were in that invidious position, I think I might be volunteering to be heard in order to clear my name, once and for all.  Quite extraordiary that this has yet to happen.
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Post by lufc50337 08.07.13 18:40

PeterMac wrote:
sally66 wrote:Exactly he couldn't have come out the patio door as GM and JW there, he couldn't have come out the front door as no key and he would I assume have left some evidence and/or been seen if he'd climbed out of the window (presuming he could with a child in his arms),GM and JW would certainly have heard the shutters going and they didn't.

With their timeline and evidence they have made abduction an impossibility.
That is the fascinating thing, is it not.
It is the McCanns insistence that JT's sighting was of the "abductor" which makes it impossible.
I have no doubt JT thought she was helping, but instead she has damned them for all time.  Trapped them in the black hole of 1 minute and 20 seconds
If at any stage they had said JT probably saw a father taking his child home from the creche, and it wasn't very important, they would have given him / her / it an hour.
But they didn't, and they still don't.
And I don't understand why.

The only reason I can think of with the information we have is to discount the Smith's sighting, it's always seemed to be a problem for them.

But I also wonder if what is in the withheld files would shed more light on the matter.
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Post by Guest 08.07.13 23:01

Against all odds, I continue to have faith in the SY review and investigation.
I also think that they may want to ELIMINATE all other possible suspects/involved ones, as once they press charges, then defense will have no leg to stand on ... IMO once ALL other possibilities have been genuinely ruled out, they may have a case. IMO, I cannot repeat it often enough ... Hi, Kevin :-)


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Post by tasprin 08.07.13 23:22

sally66 wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
sally66 wrote:Exactly he couldn't have come out the patio door as GM and JW there, he couldn't have come out the front door as no key and he would I assume have left some evidence and/or been seen if he'd climbed out of the window (presuming he could with a child in his arms),GM and JW would certainly have heard the shutters going and they didn't.

With their timeline and evidence they have made abduction an impossibility.
That is the fascinating thing, is it not.
It is the McCanns insistence that JT's sighting was of the "abductor" which makes it impossible.
I have no doubt JT thought she was helping, but instead she has damned them for all time.  Trapped them in the black hole of 1 minute and 20 seconds
If at any stage they had said JT probably saw a father taking his child home from the creche, and it wasn't very important, they would have given him / her / it an hour.
But they didn't, and they still don't.
And I don't understand why.

The only reason I can think of with the information we have is to discount the Smith's sighting, it's always seemed to be a problem for them.

But I also wonder if what is in the withheld files would shed more light on the matter.

Yes, that's my opinion too. They have always studiously ignored the Smith sighting, apart from when they tried, unsuccessfully, to morph Bundleman into Smithman in the mockumentary. It would open a can of worms if Jane Tanner's sighting were to be discounted and they may have chosen to stick with the lesser of two evils.
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Post by Angelique 08.07.13 23:29

It seems that, yes, the present Government are prepared to throw any amount of money at this Review/now Investigation and so it will continue I think until we've had enough and protest.

The Smith sighting is avoided I believe because there were five was it, separate witnesses. An awful lot to "silence" so best thing to do is avoid mentioning it/them and if you need to address it, mould it into Bundleman/Tanner sighting. So they did.

Until the Government decide that we are allowed to know the Truth this fiasco will continue - I think it's either they give in or we do.


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Post by ShuBob 09.07.13 0:25

Châtelaine wrote:Against all odds, I continue to have faith in the SY review and investigation.
I also think that they may want to ELIMINATE all other possible suspects/involved ones, as once they press charges, then defense will have no leg to stand on ... IMO once ALL other possibilities have been genuinely ruled out, they may have a case. IMO, I cannot repeat it often enough ... Hi, Kevin :-)

I'm with you. I may be disappointed in the end but for now, I can hope. Otherwise, it's pointless me being here!
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Post by Who?What?Where? 09.07.13 1:40

I was shocked to read today in the Daily Mail about 3 police officer's, who had contract's put out on their lives and seemed to be completely ignored by their, supposed, superior's when they reported that.

How on earth could an honest police officer fulfill their duties under those circumstances?

The McCann case is just the tip of a very big iceberg. IMO.

Cameron is currently saying that everyone should focus on a scotsman winning a tennis tournament in the south of england. Big deal. Why is that important? It isn't. It is misdirection. An attempt at a magic trick. An illusion.

It does, though, make me wonder whether Cameron and Brown (before him) and the very temporary Prescott ( before Brown) and "call me Tony" Blair, before all of them, are really trying to find the truth, or, what seem's more likely, actually disguise what they have really been up to?

The truth is and alway's will be the truth. You cannot get away from that. No amount of spin doctoring, media manipulation, d- notices can stop it from coming out. If our supposed leader's say that we should tell the truth , then they should set a good example, by telling it themselve's.  Political leader's, seem to be ignorant of the fact that the truth will come out. It is called common sense. In the collective "Mind Think" that is today's Tory/ Labour/Lib Dem party, it may be called Pleb sense. Who know's?
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Post by tigger 09.07.13 6:40

sally66 wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
sally66 wrote:Exactly he couldn't have come out the patio door as GM and JW there, he couldn't have come out the front door as no key and he would I assume have left some evidence and/or been seen if he'd climbed out of the window (presuming he could with a child in his arms),GM and JW would certainly have heard the shutters going and they didn't.

With their timeline and evidence they have made abduction an impossibility.
That is the fascinating thing, is it not.
It is the McCanns insistence that JT's sighting was of the "abductor" which makes it impossible.
I have no doubt JT thought she was helping, but instead she has damned them for all time.  Trapped them in the black hole of 1 minute and 20 seconds
If at any stage they had said JT probably saw a father taking his child home from the creche, and it wasn't very important, they would have given him / her / it an hour.
But they didn't, and they still don't.
And I don't understand why.

The only reason I can think of with the information we have is to discount the Smith's sighting, it's always seemed to be a problem for them.

But I also wonder if what is in the withheld files would shed more light on the matter.

I think the Smiths sighting had to be discounted. I believe it was Gerry correctly identified by Smith when he saw him coming off the airplane steps in September.
Supporting points:
The beige trousers thrown hastily on the bed - as seen in the first photographs.
The McCanns doubling the actual walking distance from 5a to where the Smith sighting was. (it was about 800 metres, they said it was a mile and therefore couldn't have been Gerry.)
The McCanns ignoring this sighting altogether for a considerable time. Finally incorporating it in the narrative without elaborating on it -in contrast with the bundle-man sighting.
(Can't find it, it's in the book - on the lines of:  'there was also someone who saw a man carrying a child in PdL - the PJ never followed it up.' Usual strategy of changing the event and using it to slate the PJ)
Brian Kennedy contacting the Smiths on the McCanns' behalf  - as they were still arguidos at the time, contacting witnesses  was highly irregular imo but par for the course as can be seen from the meeting of all concerned in a Rothley hotel.

They may have suffered from a superiority complex regarding foreigners as inferior to anything British. Therefore what big white man says goes.
This myth is fuelled by the tabloids and is highly successful in shifting all the blame onto a foreign bumbling police force who can never be as intelligent or thorough as any British police force. The British justice system is very good, getting to court is the trick, but imo the police are no better than in most developed countries - two cases which come to mind are Barrymore and the recent inquiry in the suppression of evidence (Lee Balkwell case).

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Post by plebgate 09.07.13 7:59

Who?What?Where? wrote:I was shocked to read today in the Daily Mail about 3 police officer's, who had contract's put out on their lives and seemed to be completely ignored by their, supposed, superior's when they reported that.

How on earth could an honest police officer fulfill their duties under those circumstances?

The McCann case is just the tip of a very big iceberg. IMO.

Cameron is currently saying that everyone should focus on a scotsman winning a tennis tournament in the south of england. Big deal. Why is that important? It isn't. It is misdirection. An attempt at a magic trick. An illusion.


It does, though, make me wonder whether Cameron and Brown (before him) and the very temporary Prescott ( before Brown) and "call me Tony" Blair, before all of them, are really trying to find the truth, or, what seem's more likely, actually disguise what they have really been up to?

The truth is and alway's will be the truth. You cannot get away from that. No amount of spin doctoring, media manipulation, d- notices can stop it from coming out. If our supposed leader's say that we should tell the truth , then they should set a good example, by telling it themselve's.  Political leader's, seem to be ignorant of the fact that the truth will come out. It is called common sense. In the collective "Mind Think" that is today's Tory/ Labour/Lib Dem party, it may be called Pleb sense. Who know's?


Well said.

I do find it ridiculous that the timeline appears to be ignored by the SY team.

Surely the police should start with the people who reported the crime and work from there. I just don't understand why they are not doing that?


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Post by IAmNotMerylStreep 09.07.13 8:09

Angelique wrote:It seems that, yes, the present Government are prepared to throw any amount of money at this Review/now Investigation and so it will continue I think until we've had enough and protest.

The Smith sighting is avoided I believe because there were five was it, separate witnesses. An awful lot to "silence" so best thing to do is avoid mentioning it/them and if you need to address it, mould it into Bundleman/Tanner sighting. So they did.

Until the Government decide that we are allowed to know the Truth this fiasco will continue - I think it's either they give in or we do.


 The Government, the police and the media are demonstrating, in front of our very eyes, how they do cover-ups. A selection of the British public (those of us here on forums etc) have had the benefit of reading the Portuguese police files and have heard from people in Portugal who are connected to this case, that something is very wrong and yet our government and police and media are STILL trying to pull the wool over our eyes. They may, of course, succeed to convince the rest of the British public (those who are NOT on forums etc) that Madeleine was abducted blah blah blah, but they won't succeed to convince us.

I think we owe it to Madeleine to stick with this to the end so that we learn how the Government manipulate people to  believe a certain story and help the perpetrators get away with a heinous crime. If this can happen to a 3 year old child then it can happen to other children. 

If this review/investigation concludes that Madeleine was abducted (despite the dogs alerts), that her parents are innocent of any involvement (despite death scent found on Kate McCann's clothes etc) and that the Portuguese failed in their investigation (despite UK Government interference) then the REAL criminals are our Government, police and media. I feel sickened knowing that our country is being run by criminals who help criminals get away with crimes.
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Post by Me 09.07.13 8:16

bobbin wrote:
sally66 wrote:Exactly he couldn't have come out the patio door as GM and JW there, he couldn't have come out the front door as no key and he would I assume have left some evidence and/or been seen if he'd climbed out of the window (presuming he could with a child in his arms),GM and JW would certainly have heard the shutters going and they didn't.

With their timeline and evidence they have made abduction an impossibility.
No Key? Unless of course the now "2 dimensional Flat-abductor-man" (as Gerry insists rotfl ) had used :-
(a) a 'cleaner's skeleton key', (to clean the apartment whilst he was at it?)
(b) a 'copy' which previous users had surreptitiously had made, (so that's where the bar of soap went)
(c) a 'spare' one that the actual owners had lent out to the local 'paedophile club'
(d) a 'lost' one, found by an errant childless passer-by, which fortunately had the apartment address written on it
(e) the 'one' that the owners used themselves to enter the apartment, because they thought it would be a jolly good ruse to 'fake an abduction' to surprise the absent parents when they got back, drunk. (Don't forget Dianne Webster thought it was yet another one of those silly games).
Alternatively, if the abductor had just waited a few minutes until Gerry and Jez had stopped gabbling about tennis swings and for Jane to slip by invisibly and silently, then he could have left, down the steps and out of the gate, in peace. That way, he wouldn't have been spied by Jane (for all that was worth, she didn't even tell anybody)
He will have known that Gerry would not be coming back to the apartment and catch him 'red-handed' on the patio, a chloroformed child across his arms, because he had just been hiding in a very 'flat' sort of manner behind the children's bedroom door whilst Gerry was having a p*ss.
Funny how Gerry didn't smell any chloroform when he was standing beside Maddie's bed, admiring her in her gentle sleep.
And yet the chloroform must have been administered whilst Gerry was still in the flat because Jane saw the 'flatman' already across the car park and heading along the top road.
The timeline is as tight a fit as was the space for the abductor behind the open bedroom door, but in the world of complete 'Kate and utter make-believe', everything is possible.spin

And in order for their narrative to work we are asked to believe some strange contradictions.

So if the abductor had the wherewithall, composure and "cojones" to wait in the apartment, hidden away whilst Gerry was in there, why would he then have panicked and left when he could hear Gerry & Jez talking in the street?

Why wouldn't he have the composure to know that Gerry would be on his way back to dinner soon and simply wait there in the apartment until it went quiet outside when he had the composure to wait in the apartment whilst Gerry was also in there?

Then of course if he felt his cunning and nerve deserting him and he felt the urge to leave the apartment there and then why would he walk across the road where he could hear Gerry talking rather than walk the other way using the wall of the complex as cover and out of site of the talking father and his pal?

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns
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Post by plebgate 09.07.13 8:20

Why haven't the cops asked them these quesitons before running around trying to interview people in several countries which by all accounts will take up to 2 more years and loads and loads more taxpayers' money?

Never heard anything like it.

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Post by Me 09.07.13 8:39

tigger wrote:
sally66 wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
sally66 wrote:Exactly he couldn't have come out the patio door as GM and JW there, he couldn't have come out the front door as no key and he would I assume have left some evidence and/or been seen if he'd climbed out of the window (presuming he could with a child in his arms),GM and JW would certainly have heard the shutters going and they didn't.

With their timeline and evidence they have made abduction an impossibility.
That is the fascinating thing, is it not.
It is the McCanns insistence that JT's sighting was of the "abductor" which makes it impossible.
I have no doubt JT thought she was helping, but instead she has damned them for all time.  Trapped them in the black hole of 1 minute and 20 seconds
If at any stage they had said JT probably saw a father taking his child home from the creche, and it wasn't very important, they would have given him / her / it an hour.
But they didn't, and they still don't.
And I don't understand why.

The only reason I can think of with the information we have is to discount the Smith's sighting, it's always seemed to be a problem for them.

But I also wonder if what is in the withheld files would shed more light on the matter.

I think the Smiths sighting had to be discounted. I believe it was Gerry correctly identified by Smith when he saw him coming off the airplane steps in September.
Supporting points:
The beige trousers thrown hastily on the bed - as seen in the first photographs.
The McCanns doubling the actual walking distance from 5a to where the Smith sighting was. (it was about 800 metres, they said it was a mile and therefore couldn't have been Gerry.)
The McCanns ignoring this sighting altogether for a considerable time. Finally incorporating it in the narrative without elaborating on it -in contrast with the bundle-man sighting.
(Can't find it, it's in the book - on the lines of:  'there was also someone who saw a man carrying a child in PdL - the PJ never followed it up.' Usual strategy of changing the event and using it to slate the PJ)
Brian Kennedy contacting the Smiths on the McCanns' behalf  - as they were still arguidos at the time, contacting witnesses  was highly irregular imo but par for the course as can be seen from the meeting of all concerned in a Rothley hotel.

They may  have suffered from a superiority complex regarding foreigners as inferior to anything British. Therefore what big white man says goes.
This myth is fuelled by the tabloids and is highly successful in shifting all the blame onto a foreign bumbling police force who can never be as intelligent or thorough as any British police force.  The British justice system is very good, getting to court is the trick, but imo the police are no better than in most developed countries - two cases which come to mind are Barrymore and the recent inquiry in the suppression of evidence (Lee Balkwell case).

Here's a reason why the Smiths sighting had to be discounted:

Date of Diligence: 2007.05.26 10h45
Location: This Department
Name: Aoife Smith

The witness states:

His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.



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Are these the same trousers:

Dr Martin Roberts - NO WAY OUT  Foto17

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns
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Post by Pershing36 09.07.13 8:43

If this isn't a transparent, honest review/investigation then what is it all about?  Why bother with it?

If the point of the review was to get their hands on the files the PJ didn't release I really hope the Portuguese stick to their guns.  However by doing this the will undoubtedly be used as the scape goats if SY end without a conclusion, they can easily say they didn't have access to the whole picture.

We know they are after to those files, what could be in them?  Surely if there was a smoking gun the PJ would have used it?  Why have they not released them when they released everything else?

I am trying to remain hopeful SY will find the truth, however the more you read and hear it slips further every day.

Why are the suspects all British?

38 people of interest, 12 British.
5 British cleaners in a Transit.
The soothing British couple
Hewlett was British
The posh lookalike Aussie or British wasn't it?

Is it because if they need a Patsy they will have to be British as I can't see another country allowing SY to frame their citizens given the amount of evidence against the abduction.

Only time will tell I guess
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Post by russiandoll 09.07.13 9:05

quote plebgate :     Surely the police should start with the people who reported the crime and work from there. I just don't understand why they are not doing that?

After the Grange team was set up, elsewhere on the forum and probably in a section devoted to Op G and its remit I posted [ after reading AS IF THE ABDUCTION OCCURRED IN THE U.UK.] a copy of UK Police policy and procedures for abduction, with special ref.to the abduction of a minor or vulnerable adult.

 2 things stood out for me :

1.   Take notice of the person reporting the abduction. This is because the abduction report is possibly a means of explaining the sudden disappearance of a child.[ words to that effect.]

2.    IF IN DOUBT THINK MURDER. This was in capitals in the policy document so is clearly of great importance.
 
Grange team will need to explain to their superiors why they have deviated from these procedures, if they have done so.
Redwood is answerable to another for his decisions I would imagine, as he is rank DCI ? 


 p.s.  edited to amend point 1.  I had mistakenly typed " abduction report IS a means of explaining the sudden disappearance of a child", carelessly omitting the word sometimes. Therefore I have amended the sentence, used the word possibly.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy

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Post by PeterMac 09.07.13 9:16

russiandoll wrote:
Redwood is answerable to another for his decisions I would imagine, as he is - DCI ?
That is an important point.
He is a DCI, and thus answerable directly to a Detective Superintendent, a Detective Chief Superintendent, and ultimately through the Command structure to the top.
He has an enormous budget, a very large team, and a staggeringly long time-frame.

What he is doing, and has been doing, will have been the subject of interim reports, certainly quarterly, and monthly or even weekly briefings to his supervisory team.
He will have been questioned at length and in detail about what he had done, was doing, and intended to do.
His Policy Book will have been scrutinised and necessary adjustments suggested.
And that is at the official level. There are also lunches in the canteen, coffee with biscuits and so on. He is working alongside colleagues and friends, whatever their respective ranks

And finally, if he fails to come out with a result, the entire thing will be reviewed by someone else, independent of his enquiry.
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