Re: SMITHMAN 2 - What can account for the 17 remarkable similarities between Tannerman and Smithman?

by plebgate 06.04.14 10:59

I remember seeing the original photo Joyce (maybe in the Daily Mirror online) and there was definitely a pink blanket in the photo.

by Hicks 06.04.14 11:11

Weird isn't it! Gerry McCann would seem to fit Jane Tanner's description of the abductor in the photo below.
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by joyce1938 06.04.14 11:15

I woder if there was more than one photo ? as in the one we have up last ,definatly sleeve showing ,do you see what I mean plebgate?joyce1938 infact even the bottoms shown ,look more like a kids play suit top too thick to be night wear?just a thought . Some thicker nightwear used to used over top if maybe cold weather or fetching home after an evening out ? joyce

by plebgate 06.04.14 11:21

@joyce, re. the top being too thick for pj top. Yes, could well be, looks more like a fleece type of top.

by Sonmi-451 08.04.14 3:50

My rationale for voting 'Other', (as requested)

(i) The timing, and evolution, of the relevant statements
...compounded by:
(i) Smiths: No obvious association with the victim, and thus no ulterior motive to offer anything but an honest statement.
(ii) Tanner: An association with the victim exists, and thus a possibility (that at the least needs to be objectively and impartially explored) of a motive to offer something other than an honest statement.

by **tigger** 08.04.14 8:31

Sonmi-451 wrote:My rationale for voting 'Other', (as requested)

(i) The timing, and evolution, of the relevant statements
...compounded by:
(i) Smiths: No obvious association with the victim, and thus no ulterior motive to offer anything but an honest statement.
(ii) Tanner: An association with the victim exists, and thus a possibility (that at the least needs to be objectively and impartially explored) of a motive to offer something other than an honest statement.

More or less my take on it:

The description of Tannerman 1 was given after 10.00 p.m., when the Smiths had seen a man in beige trousers, dark top.
It was more than likely that the 10.00 pm sighting would be reported on the 4th.
Therefore the safety device of two witnesses who could put Gerry in view at the same time as Tannerman/Smithman was seen was very necessary in view of the over-curious Smiths.

Therefore Tannerman had to match Smithman, even though the gap of some 40 minutes to walk a 5 minute distance was a little awkward.
The accidental meeting with JW was a great bonus here.

Then there are the two photographs of the main bedroom, one with hastily thrown down beige trousers, one (assuming that one of the McCanns was suddenly overcome by a fit of tidying the bedroom now they had visitors) without the trousers.
Worth looking at those two photographsagain, was anything else tidied away?

by AndyB 08.04.14 9:23

I've gone for "some other reason" because I think tanner man was an invention to cover for the genuine sighting of Gerry by the Smiths

by HelenMeg 08.04.14 9:26

AndyB wrote:I've gone for "some other reason" because I think tanner man was an invention to cover for the genuine sighting of Gerry by the Smiths

Yes I have done the same for the same reason

by canada12 08.04.14 10:21

If we accept that Tannerman was invented to cover the fact that the Smiths spotted Gerry (or any of the Tapas gentlemen) carrying a child, then it's a very clever move on the part of SY to find and identify "Tannerman". An innocent father. And therefore not the same gentleman that the Smiths saw.

Therefore, in spite of massive publicity, if Smithman cannot be located and eliminated by SY, it stands to reason that Smithman, by process of elimination, must continue to be a "person of interest" in the case. If no one has come forward to identify themselves, they cannot be eliminated. It's unlikely the Smiths made up the story of seeing a man with a child. The only question is, who was he and who was the child?

Whether the man was Gerry or one of the other Tapas friends (or even an acquaintance of Gerry), the question logically must be, why were you carrying that child in that direction? It was either a) a diversion or decoy or b) it was Madeleine. Either way, Smithman is involved in the "removal". There can be no other explanation in the absence of anyone coming forward to identify themselves.

by Hicks 08.04.14 16:54

I wonder if anyone can help me out here?

I have posted a photo showing the layout of the Ocean Club and the surrounding streets. IIRC JT said at the very beginning that the man she saw was carrying a bundle in the direction of the Baptista supermarket.

Where on this plan is the supermarket? Is it in the direction of the beach or towards Murat's villa?

Notice that Sergey Malinka has property near the beach. Interesting!
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I should add....4th picture down the page.

by Hicks 08.04.14 19:23

Hicks wrote:I wonder if anyone can help me out here?

I have posted a photo showing the layout of the Ocean Club and the surrounding streets. IIRC JT said at the very beginning that the man she saw was carrying a bundle in the direction of the Baptista supermarket.

Where on this plan is the supermarket? Is it in the direction of the beach or towards Murat's villa?

Notice that Sergey Malinka has property near the beach. Interesting!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

I should add....4th picture down the page.

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I have found the answer I think! This deleted article from the Express hopefully confirms that JT DID say that the abductor was heading towards the Baptista supermarket, she then changed her mind and said he was heading in the opposite direction towards Murat's Villa.

If it could be established when 'exactly' JT changed her mind about the direction ( was it just after the Smith family came forward?) that would make GM much more likely to be Smithman.

by ultimaThule 08.04.14 19:55

Surely if Tanner-Crecheman was heading towards the Baptista, JT would have passed him head on and he would have passed Gezza gassing to Jezza, Hicks?

by Hicks 08.04.14 20:47

ultimaThule wrote:Surely if Tanner-Crecheman was heading towards the Baptista, JT would have passed him head on and he would have passed Gezza gassing to Jezza, Hicks?

That is allegedly what JT stated first off, that he was heading in the direction of the Baptista. We all know that in reality this sighting by JT is nothing more than pure fiction.

GM was caught out by the Smith family. JT did not pass GM talking to JW in the street so therefore did not see a man carrying a bundle/child in pyjamas.

by XTC 15.04.14 22:43

canada12 wrote:If we accept that Tannerman was invented to cover the fact that the Smiths spotted Gerry (or any of the Tapas gentlemen) carrying a child, then it's a very clever move on the part of SY to find and identify "Tannerman". An innocent father. And therefore not the same gentleman that the Smiths saw.

Therefore, in spite of massive publicity, if Smithman cannot be located and eliminated by SY, it stands to reason that Smithman, by process of elimination, must continue to be a "person of interest" in the case. If no one has come forward to identify themselves, they cannot be eliminated. It's unlikely the Smiths made up the story of seeing a man with a child. The only question is, who was he and who was the child?

Whether the man was Gerry or one of the other Tapas friends (or even an acquaintance of Gerry), the question logically must be, why were you carrying that child in that direction? It was either a) a diversion or decoy or b) it was Madeleine. Either way, Smithman is involved in the "removal". There can be no other explanation in the absence of anyone coming forward to identify themselves.

Yes to me that is good logic.

JT is/was the pivot for the abduction occuring just after GM left 5a between 9.04 ( digital watch or mobile phone time?) and MO's voluntary check alongside ROB and the sick child sheet washing at around 9.30?

RE: ROB: How long would take to wash a sheet with a modern washing machine? 20 minutes? So JT had gone back to the Tapas Bar- not noticing that her child was feeling ill and it was ROB who found out that she was. JT then made the trek again to her apartment to relieve
ROB of his duties and to no doubt keep any eye an the rinse and spin of the sheets in the wash? As far as I know JT never mentioned putting the sheets in the dryer ( more time spent) or out to dry and it was ROB that insisted that it was he who sorted this unforseen mess out.

They were both at their apartment on the changeover for a while and MO re-joined ROB after the changeover apparently.

Smithman is curious as Mrs Fenn's two lots of statements say that it was around 10.30pm when the commotion started when GM told her
a child had gone missing. Therefore if DI Redwood is exploring timelines has he took note of Mrs fenn? If he hasn't perhaps he should.

An interesting aside visa - vis The Smith Family: One of the younger ( and possibly trendier of the group) said he was pretty sure that the man carrying the child was wearing something like a Blazer jacket. This may be a stereotype but the only people I am aware of who wear blazers are yachting types or Golf Club members. Maybe DI Redwood should be looking for a member of the local Yachting Club who is very high up in the local Golfing scene?

p.s. I do think that the original bundleman is pure invention. To be fair some thoerists think it is a slowly moving trap but I'm afraid I'm not convinced of that. If after May the 4th the investigations gather pace and the Libel case is resolved then I may alter my view but it has gone very quiet and as usual we await developments. Good logic your post though.

by Guest 05.06.14 12:53

Bumping this for any discussions on 'Smithman'

by haroldd2 05.06.14 12:58

candyfloss wrote:Bumping this for any discussions on 'Smithman'

Tony Bennett wrote:Third, Martin Smith describes himself in the Golf Net company documents as:

QUOTE

• Martin Smith , Managing Director & Founder

A former senior army officer - with extensive management and leadership skills acquired during a twenty-five year career both at home and overseas -, his entrepeneurship, vision, enthusiasm and perseverence has aassembled a team of hugely experienced and talented individuals with the combined skill-sets to realise his ambition of creating a global brand. Through the strategic partnerships that he has established, he has positioned Golf Net to rapidly establish a significant international presence. His inventiveness has created an impressive range of unique and innovative products that will be the launch-pad for what will become a major international brand.

Presumably the British army rather than the Irish one, then, given the "overseas" bit.

by HelenMeg 05.06.14 13:04

haroldd2 wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Bumping this for any discussions on 'Smithman'
Tony Bennett wrote:Third, Martin Smith describes himself in the Golf Net company documents as:

QUOTE

• Martin Smith , Managing Director & Founder

A former senior army officer - with extensive management and leadership skills acquired during a twenty-five year career both at home and overseas -, his entrepeneurship, vision, enthusiasm and perseverence has aassembled a team of hugely experienced and talented individuals with the combined skill-sets to realise his ambition of creating a global brand. Through the strategic partnerships that he has established, he has positioned Golf Net to rapidly establish a significant international presence. His inventiveness has created an impressive range of unique and innovative products that will be the launch-pad for what will become a major international brand.
Presumably the British army rather than the Irish one, then, given the "overseas" bit.

Maybe The Smith family have links through golf to John Geraghty if they are regular visitors to PdL area. Perhaps they are in on this too. I had not considered this but it is worth considering if they were regulars. Maybe their alleged recognition of GM being possible Smithman was to promote yet another red herring to defer from the truth. Nothing would surprise.

by Rob Royston 05.06.14 13:06

Sockpuppet wrote:Can you please add the option:

'Jane Tanner engineered her sighting to match the appearance of the man witnessed by the Smith family'.

That seems like a reasonable request.

by Tangled Web 05.06.14 13:07

Copied this over from the 'digging' thread before I get told off soz

1) If 'Smithman' was Gerry carrying a 'decoy' child, surely somebody saw him returning with that child so where are the witness statements supporting this?

2) If 'Smithman' was Gerry carrying Madeleine, surely somebody would still have seen him on his return, even if empty handed. So where are these witness statements?

Witnesses will have been asked what/who they saw around 10 p.m in the vicinity.

Thanks.

Tangled Web.

by Guest 05.06.14 13:09

Tangled Web wrote:Copied this over from the 'digging' thread before I get told off

1) If 'Smithman' was Gerry carrying a 'decoy' child, surely somebody saw him returning with that child so where are the witness statements supporting this?

2) If 'Smithman' was Gerry carrying Madeleine, surely somebody would still have seen him on his return, even if empty handed. So where are these witness statements?

Witnesses will have been asked what/who they saw around 10 p.m in the vicinity.

Thanks.

Tangled Web.

Thank you, good idea, others could do the same. thumbsup

by haroldd2 05.06.14 13:15

HelenMeg wrote:
haroldd2 wrote:Presumably the British army rather than the Irish one, then, given the "overseas" bit.
Maybe The Smith family have links through golf to John Geraghty if they are regular visitors to PdL area. Perhaps they are in on this too. I had not considered this but it is worth considering if they were regulars. Maybe their alleged recognition of GM being possible Smithman was to promote yet another red herring to defer from the truth. Nothing would surprise.

A John Geraghty link would be very interesting.

So Martin Smith is an Irish businessman and supposed former senior officer in what must surely be the British army, who set up a company in Dundalk, a town in the Irish Republic that was formerly well known as an IRA stronghold which even tourist literature said to avoid.

by Garrincha 05.06.14 13:20

Hi Harold - the Irish Army have also been active overseas since the early sixties

by View-from-Ireland 05.06.14 13:22

haroldd2 wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
haroldd2 wrote:Presumably the British army rather than the Irish one, then, given the "overseas" bit.
Maybe The Smith family have links through golf to John Geraghty if they are regular visitors to PdL area. Perhaps they are in on this too. I had not considered this but it is worth considering if they were regulars. Maybe their alleged recognition of GM being possible Smithman was to promote yet another red herring to defer from the truth. Nothing would surprise.
A John Geraghty link would be very interesting.

So Martin Smith is an Irish businessman and supposed former senior officer in what must surely be the British army, who set up a company in Dundalk, a town in the Irish Republic that was formerly well known as an IRA stronghold which even tourist literature said to avoid.

Why would he have to be British army?The Irish army has been involved in numerous peacekeeping missions and many friends of mine have served in places like the Congo, Lebanon and younger men in more recent trouble spots.

by Guest 05.06.14 13:26

Fiona09 wrote:I'm just catching up with this thread so apologies if someone else has already said this (and also apologies for being off-topic but there's been a lot of speculation re Smithman in recent posts).

I don't subscribe to the decoy theory of GM running through the streets with a substitute girl. Why would he risk being identified when according to the timelines he should've been at the Tapas Bar waiting for Kate's announcement along with everyone else? It makes more sense to me that in a panic, GM attempted to hide Madeleine's body before the alarm was raised and took what he believed to be a quieter route, where there was less of a chance of being spotted. Unfortunately, he ran into the Smiths. I think this is when it was decided that Jane should say she saw Tannerman in case the Smith family reported their sighting to the police. This then gave Gerry an alibi as, according to Jane, he was standing on the other side of the street when she saw Tannerman. Therefore, no-one would suspect that it was Gerry that was spotted by the Smiths.

IMO if no-one spotted Smithman, Tannerman would never have existed in the story as he wouldn't have been needed.

All speculation on my part of course!

by haroldd2 05.06.14 13:31

View-from-Ireland wrote:
haroldd2 wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
haroldd2 wrote:Presumably the British army rather than the Irish one, then, given the "overseas" bit.
Maybe The Smith family have links through golf to John Geraghty if they are regular visitors to PdL area. Perhaps they are in on this too. I had not considered this but it is worth considering if they were regulars. Maybe their alleged recognition of GM being possible Smithman was to promote yet another red herring to defer from the truth. Nothing would surprise.
A John Geraghty link would be very interesting.

So Martin Smith is an Irish businessman and supposed former senior officer in what must surely be the British army, who set up a company in Dundalk, a town in the Irish Republic that was formerly well known as an IRA stronghold which even tourist literature said to avoid.

Why would he have to be British army?The Irish army has been involved in numerous peacekeeping missions and many friends of mine have served in places like the Congo, Lebanon and younger men in more recent trouble spots.

Point taken. I wrongly assumed Golf Net Limited was a British company, and to my ears the word "overseas" has always had a "British empire" ring to it, but you are right - it could have been the Irish army.

SMITHMAN 2 - What can account for the 17 remarkable similarities between Tannerman and Smithman?

Why are there 17 similarities between Tannerman and Smithman?