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Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by russiandoll on 13.09.12 21:31

I have a suspicion that Mr Wright is one of the seemingly minor players who in fact has a lot more to do with this than appears at first glance.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by tigger on 13.09.12 21:32

@russiandoll wrote: I have a suspicion that Mr Wright is one of the seemingly minor players who in fact has a lot more to do with this than appears at first glance.


https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2270-madeleine-mccann-the-role-of-michael-wright roses

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by Woofer on 13.09.12 23:03

I didn`t know about a second car, the Renault Espace - that`s interesting. Anyone know if the owner was ever traced?
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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by jd on 14.09.12 0:53

Michael Wright and the Renault Scenic

On 27th May, the day before Dr Gerry McCann and Dr Kate McCann travelled to Rome to receive a blessing from the Pope, Michael Wright became a joint named driver of the notorious Renault Scenic, in which Eddie the cadaver sniffer dog detected the ‘smell of death’ - human cadaverine - in the well of the car, where what was almost certainly a sample of Madeleine’s blood was also found.

There is some confusion about who were the ‘named drivers’ of the car. One report said it was the two McCanns plus Michael Wright. Another report said that Sandy Cameron, husband of Trish Cameron, was also a ‘named driver’, and that Dr Kate McCann was not. She is certainly on record as having driven the Renault Scenic, and we may safely assume therefore that she was a named driver."

Michael Wright Rogatory Interview - 16th April 2008

"When I was in Portugal on 12 July I was picked up by Kate who was driving the Renault Espace".

however if we are to believe that there was only the ONE car, then Kate was driving it without being named on the rental agreement.

RENAULT GRAND SCENIC
59 DA 27 1.5 DCI 7L/S1
2938 to 2940 - Fax to car rental agency 12 September 2007

Processo 11 Pages 2902 to 2937

p2907 27/5-03/6 MW is additional driver
p2910 03/6-03/7 MW is additional driver
p2913 03/7-02/8 Additional driver (blank)
p2914 02/8-01/9 Additional driver (blank)
p2917 01/9-24/9 MW is additional driver

Linda McQueen Rog:

"During 2007 I travelled to Portugal on 3 separate occasions: from 12 - 19 May; 26 - 29 June; and 19 - 26 August.

During the first week that I was in Portugal Kate and Gerry were transported [driven] by representatives of Mark Warner. Sandy Cameron was also there and possessed a hire car, but it was not the Renault Scenic that Gerry and Kate rented during the third week that I stayed with them in Portugal.
In the second week that I was there, I travelled [to Portugal] with Nicky Gill. We stayed with the Trish and Sandy in the apartment close to Kate and Gerry. On this occasion Gerry drove a hire car but I do not remember if it was the previous car of Sandy or the Renault scenic.

In the third week I travelled [to Portugal] with my husband, Mark, our daughter Ellie and the priest Paul Seddon. Ellie and I stayed in the Villa that Kate and Gerry had rented, Paul and Mark stayed in an apartment in the immediate vicinity. During this period both Kate and Gerry drove the Renault Scenic and I travelled frequently in that vehicle."

To add the confusion,

Sandy Cameron states in his rog that;

"On the 27th of May of 2007, Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex; a Renault Scenic with plate number 59-DA-27. I met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry’s request, and as such, my name was also on the rental contract so that I could also drive the vehicle; to drive the children and to go shopping. These were things that Gerry was too occupied to carry out himself. I was the habitual drive of the vehicle and used it daily."

Yet he is not listed on the rental agreements?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/RENTAL_CONTRACTS-1.htm

In addition to the above, we then have Michael Wright stating that he was reluctant to be an additional driver until 22nd August however the rental agreements clearly indicated he was an additional driver between these dates and bizzarely NOT solely when he claimed.

Processo 11 Pages 2902 to 2937

p2907 27/5-03/6 MW is additional driver
p2910 03/6-03/7 MW is additional driver
p2913 03/7-02/8 Additional driver (blank)
p2914 02/8-01/9 Additional driver (blank)
p2917 01/9-24/9 MW is additional driver


Michael Wright rog;

"At the time I travelled with Anne-Marie on 8 June, Kate and Gerry had rented a vehicle. It had seven seats, I thought it to be a Renault Espace. Gerry suggested that I be added to the insured driver's list so that I could drive it while they were in Morocco, but I thought that to be unnecessary as they would only be gone for a few days. When I was in Portugal on 12 July I was picked up by Kate who was driving the Renault Espace.

It was on our trip to Portugal on 22 August that Gerry suggested that I was added to the contract as an additional driver and I accepted. Gerry and I went to Lagos and I was included in the contract as additional driver.

I drove the car regularly in August and September, doing the shopping at the supermarket, taking the house and garden rubbish to the recycling area in PdL and also taking the twins to creche and to the beach, and trips to the airport. I was also a passenger in the car at various times, mainly in June and July when Gerry or Sandy drove. "

Based on the above, it appears that not only are there large descrepancies regarding Michael Wright dates of when he was an additional driver of the Renault Scenic but also Kate McCann supposedly driving the Scenic without being named on the rental agreements. To add to this, there is enough evidence to suggest there was indeed a second car, Renault Espace, in use however I'm not convinced this car was a hire car.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by jd on 14.09.12 1:01

@russiandoll wrote: I have a suspicion that Mr Wright is one of the seemingly minor players who in fact has a lot more to do with this than appears at first glance.

Remember their 'story' is designed to deflect everyone away from the truth and the players involved in it. The main players are there to deflect, the minor players and non-existent players are the real ones

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by russiandoll on 14.09.12 8:48

Yes jd, it certainly was the strategy. I am reminded of Michael Mansfield QC discussing the about- to- be released Hillsborough Report and his quoting Mark Twain's proverb that a lie will be half way around the world before the truth has a chance to get its shoes on. If you want your version of the truth to be accepted as fact, said Mr Mansfield, make sure you get your version out there first. I am convinced that as far as the McCann story goes, if the finger is pointing there..........look in the opposite direction.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by tigger on 14.09.12 17:17

The GNR officers who attended the Ocean Club on the night/morning or 03/04 May 2007
Time
The order of arrival
23:00 José Maria Batista Roque and Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa


23:25/23:50 António Henrique da Conceição Duarte (Sergeant and Commander of the Lagos GNR Post)


00:00 Rui Ségio Lopes Silva and 'Santos' (no statement found)


00:05 Paulo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa


00:10/00:15 José Carlos Leal Pimentel


01.05/01.20 Paulo Jorge Fernandes Neto

01:10João Vasco da Silva Casimiro


01:55/02:30 Armando Augusto Morais and Carlos Manuel Carvalho Lacão







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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by jd on 15.09.12 14:30

@russiandoll wrote:Yes jd, it certainly was the strategy. I am reminded of Michael Mansfield QC discussing the about- to- be released Hillsborough Report and his quoting Mark Twain's proverb that a lie will be half way around the world before the truth has a chance to get its shoes on. If you want your version of the truth to be accepted as fact, said Mr Mansfield, make sure you get your version out there first. I am convinced that as far as the McCann story goes, if the finger is pointing there..........look in the opposite direction.

When I look at the whole picture, I see one thing that has never been questioned or any finger of blame or anything pointed at.....Mark Warner/Ocean Club

This is mainly because the mccanns have taken 'neglect' which everyone focuses on & therefore no thought goes to MW/OC. This I believe was the mccanns part of the deal so no finger of suspicion could be pointed towards MW/OC

MW have a bad history with its nannies especially and had just invested into OC. Nobody has ever questioned the security there, nobody has ever questioned the lack of lighting around the apartments. The female tapas members have said they were scared to go back and check the apartments on their own because it was too dark, GA has said it was dark at the apartments. In any case security alone should be questioned, let alone after an 'alleged' abduction. Why has the general security at MW/OC never been questioned? After all, an abduction took place on their property.... yet never a question raised

I think the 'abduction' story was designed to totally deflect MW/OC from the story. Yet it was MW/OC who had all the closest connections of the people involved from the start

All seems way too obvious to me


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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by russiandoll on 15.09.12 19:18

MW had a hell of a lot at stake. They are implicated in this in a big way imo.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by bobbin on 15.09.12 19:53

@russiandoll wrote: MW had a hell of a lot at stake. They are implicated in this in a big way imo.

Yes jd and russiandoll, and so many connections in the highest places,
Lord Tim Bell, of Bell Pottinger.
John Major and the Symingtons, just for starters.
And that brick wall by the McCann's patio, easy for a child to climb onto and fall off.
Can someone confirm for me, I seem to remember Kate McCann saying something about doing some 'pruning' of the bushes by the apartment.
Would those bushes be the ones where cadaver was picked up. If it was bougainvillea it has spines. I seem to remember a reference to getting scratched and thought at the time it was a strange thing to be doing on holiday, along with washing curtains in a holiday apartment.
I am vague here and would appreciate correction if what I am saying is wrong.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by russiandoll on 15.09.12 20:05

I find anyone pruning bushes at a holiday apartment very strange, even if this was in another apartment or house they had been moved to after the holiday week........there are gardeners employed to keep grass, trees and shrubs neat.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by Nina on 15.09.12 20:35

@bobbin wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: MW had a hell of a lot at stake. They are implicated in this in a big way imo.

Yes jd and russiandoll, and so many connections in the highest places,
Lord Tim Bell, of Bell Pottinger.
John Major and the Symingtons, just for starters.
And that brick wall by the McCann's patio, easy for a child to climb onto and fall off.
Can someone confirm for me, I seem to remember Kate McCann saying something about doing some 'pruning' of the bushes by the apartment.
Would those bushes be the ones where cadaver was picked up. If it was bougainvillea it has spines. I seem to remember a reference to getting scratched and thought at the time it was a strange thing to be doing on holiday, along with washing curtains in a holiday apartment.
I am vague here and would appreciate correction if what I am saying is wrong.

Yes I am sure that it was in her diary and that it was the first morning.
This bush does have terrible spines and not imo suitable plant for a child friendly apartment. The spines are thicker and sharper lower down the plant, though there are spines right to the very tips.
On Pamalams excellent site there is a picture of a little fence atop the low wall where this bush is, at the base of which there was a slight alert. There is also a picture where this little fence has been removed.
This low wall is directly in front of the patio door in the parents bedroom, the same window where the blinds had to be mended on the monday by the handiman, as broken according to Kate by her heavy handed husband.

Here is the link with the fence on top of the wall,
http://www.pamalam.co.uk/01/PJ/5A_PHOTO_REPORT.htm

And another link showing the garden area below this low wall and where Eddie alerted
http://www.pamalam.co.uk/01/PJ/5A_EDDIE-KEELA.htm

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by jd on 16.09.12 1:12

I think there was something in kate mccanns diary or in the bewk in chapter 1 about pruning the hedges

In the DCCB report there is reference made about new plants being in the garden of the villa the mccanns rented whilst they were living there

- The owner of the villa said that he had been in the villa after the departure of the McCanns and that it seemed to him that there were new plants at the bottom of the garden, without being able to indicate exactly which plants, a fact that he commented on with the gardener F**** Do S*****.

- When the gardener was contacted that in spite of the fact that he does the maintenance of the garden, he had not detected anything abnormal in it, namely the existence of new plants, saying that he had some difficulty in maintaining a dialogue with the owner, because of the language barrier.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by Lady-Heather on 16.09.12 22:16

@russiandoll wrote: MW had a hell of a lot at stake. They are implicated in this in a big way imo.
Yes, absolutely. This is demonstrated in the MW records, if you suspend reality for a moment and look at them not as records of what 'did' occur that week, but as plausible works of fiction.
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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by jd on 16.09.12 23:42

@Lady-Heather wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: MW had a hell of a lot at stake. They are implicated in this in a big way imo.
Yes, absolutely. This is demonstrated in the MW records, if you suspend reality for a moment and look at them not as records of what 'did' occur that week, but as plausible works of fiction.

Symingtons....

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by russiandoll on 17.09.12 11:43

I sometimes wonder if an unwitnessed accident happened at creche, a fight over a toy, a trip , a push, a knock on the head, all very common childhood events.
Then say there was a fermenting head injury, a small skull fracture, a bleed on the brain. Maybe after milk and biscuits one evening Maddie fell asleep, became unconscious, maybe inhaled vomit and was found dead the following morning.

What I do not understand is why the parents, fi they thought this had happened when Maddie was in the care of the creche, would go along with a plan to protect the holiday company's interests, even if they were promised that they would be looked after. Forget about taking legal action, which they might have done, why would they not go through the normal process of investigation if it was an accidental death? Why would they want to help MW in any way?
It has never been the McCanns being protected , but big business interest imo.. I still dont understand why the parents would go along with it though.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by tigger on 30.12.12 9:02

Adding this to the topic from 'Only in America' blog : http://onlyinamericablogging.blogspot.com/search/label/McCanns

quote: (From The truth of the lie)
Firstly let me set the scene, this extract from Amaral's book.

Two contradictory lists and a torn children's book
The first investigator who went to the apartment after the alarm was raised was informed of the existence of a plan for checking on the children while the parents dined one hundred metres away.
At the time, Russell O'Brien handed over two lists handwritten on the inside cover of a children's book, a sticker activity book for children more than 3 years of age. We believe the book was Madeleine's and we do not understand why they tore off the cover of the child's book.
A child had just gone missing and all its belongings should be precious to those who loved her. Was there really no other paper around? Not even a simple napkin? The question hangs in the air and the response is yet another contradiction. The lists contained the possible record of the checks in the apartment.

That it was Madeleine's book is not vital to the case but it is a good indicator to what was seemingly transpiring in apartment 5A the alarm was raised.
Not Vital as I say, but worth remembering when I pose a question a little later on.
unquote

The next Extract from Russell O'Brien's Rogatory interview does give us two pieces of information, one extremely important piece of information is that it places Gerry McCann in the apartment at the time O'Brien was writing the timeline, at the same table even, and the other: "I thought it was a cereal box" is worth remembering.
But it is the time that is the critical component in all this

In response to a question from Leicester plod.

Reply Russell O'Brien........ at some stage sort of quietened off and the, the PJ sat down with, you know, came in and sat down with Gerry....

(I thought) that we were writing on the back of a piece of card,I thought it was a cereal box but obviously it was a children’s book,

that (it) was written with me sat at the table in Kate and Gerry’s room. Gerry by this point had certainly calmed down but was, his head was just on the table, you know, like that, he was just staring at the, at the table, very, very quiet and very, very low.
Question Leicester plod....
LP. “Was the first attempt, the earlier attempt as you say. When was this drafted up”?

Reply Russell O'Brien
Erm this was drafted er **around the time that the initial pair of Officers from the PJ came to 5A**
I can certainly recall writing some of this, I think perhaps the neat, maybe the neater version erm sat down at the table in Gerry’s flat...


Let us now look at some bits from Jane Tanner's Rogatory statements.

I didn’t want to say to Kate at that point, which might sound odd now, you know, ‘Oh why wouldn’t you say straight away to Kate’, but, you know, the thought of telling the mother of a child that you might have seen being carried away is, it’s too horrible to even say.

The nitty gritty.
4078 (Leic plod) “Sorry, was that on the night that Madeleine had disappeared?”

JT.“That was at three o’clock in the morning after she’d disappeared, yeah”.

LP. "So when you went into Gerry and Kate’s apartment who else was there?”

JT. “Erm, I think there was Russ, I think Russell came with me and there was Sylvie who was the translator.

I can’t remember which, there was some, there was a PJ chap was sitting on the, by the table.And there was Gerry who was standing by the, the bedroom door”.

LP. “And how was Gerry at that point?”

JT.“Oh he was just, well obviously, obviously distraught.
And I think it was quite hard for me to be saying at that, you know, looking in his face and to be explaining what I’d seen, at that point was quite hard because, you know, Gerry was obviously standing there, I don’t know whether, and you sort of think ‘Oh God, here’s me, if I’d tried to stop them this wouldn’t have happened’ sort of thing.So I think I did feel sort of a bit obviously guilty at that stage even though I didn’t know whether it was anything, but obviously you think ‘Oh bloody hell, what if I’ not stopped it happened potentially”.

LP. “And what was Gerry’s reaction to what you said?”

JT. “Well I don’t even know whether he took it in, I mean, he was just, he was, you know, obviously just standing there looking absolutely horrified, so”.

Short ending.

Prior to the PJ arriving at 12:40/12:50 Russell O'Brien has written the timeline for them all, including, "Jane tanner sees stranger walking carrying child." He does this while Gerry McCann sits at the same table.

At three o' clock in the morning Jane Tanner informs Gerry McCann for the first time, about the existence of a possible abductor.
Gerry looks horrified upon hearing this.

Err hello, hello mister English policeman, are you there?

~ ~ ~



Long ending.

Firstly let me dispense with the book.

Having read all that O'Brien has to say I would have difficulty in believing that Monday followed Sunday if such statement came from his lips, but for once and for purposes of this article I shall go with one sentence being the truth.


"I thought it was a cereal box but obviously it was a children’s book."


At first glance it might not seem so terribly important but it does bother me somewhat and makes me ask who handed the torn book to O'Brien, who would feel comfortable enough to tear up a book belonging to a child, someone else's child and a recently "abducted" child to boot?

How likely is it that one of the Tapas Seven would tear up a book belonging to Madeleine? for all their faults I would say they have enough social graces that to do such a thing would be totally alien to them, who then?

Well it can't have been Gerry can it? because according to Jane Tanner she didn't inform McCann until three in the morning that she had in fact seen a possible abductor.

But that begs another question, especially with Gerry being placed in the apartment at the time.

How did O'Brien and Co. conjure up so surreptitiously the timeline, commit it all to paper duly noting Tanner's 9.20pm sighting of the possible abductor without the knowledge of Gerry McCann who was, at the very time the thing was being drafted,was sat with his head resting on the same table.

It's all a mystery to me.
unquote (Only in America)


If the timelines were ready before 00.40 on 4/5, my question is 'how long did they take to be constructed?'. I would think 20 to 30 minutes.
The inclusion of JT's sighting - why has no police officer questioned the contradiction here?


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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by tigger on 30.12.12 9:13

For clarity this post is separate, it can be seen that whilst Gerry was sitting at the table with his head in his hands, oblivious of the timeline being drawn up and in particular of the sighting of the abductor, he was also dealing with phone calls.

0.00.27 am Kate calls Sue and Brian Healy (128 seconds)
0.05.00 am Gerry calls Brian and Janet Kennedy (3 seconds)
0.05.45 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (3 seconds)
0.06.15 am Gerry calls Brian and Janet Kennedy (2.47 minutes)
0.13.14 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (3 seconds)

0.13.50 am Kate calls Sue and Brian Healy (407 seconds)
0.21.36 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (23 seconds)
0.23.12 am Gerry calls …. (3.55 minutes)
0.27.07 am Trish Cameron calls Gerry (2.28 minutes)
0.29.37 am Angela Morado at UK Consulate calls Gerry (4.53 minutes)
0.36.21 am Kate calls … (31 seconds)
0.37.05 am voicemail calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS
0.38.40 am … calls Gerry (6.40 minutes)
0.39.58 am Kate calls voicemail (34 seconds)
0.40.50 am voicemail calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS
0.45.15 am Brian and Janet Kennedy call Gerry (1.18 minutes)
0.45.49 am Kate calls voicemail (31 seconds)
0.47.23 am … calls Kate (2.39 minutes)
0.47.41 am Angela Morado at UK Consulate calls Gerry (2.15 minutes)
0.53.08 am … calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS

00.40/00.50. PJ Officer V. M. M. arrived on the scene. 00.40/00.50.
The consulate and an unknown caller are the longest calls. I'm particularly interested in the 00.38 call.


Thursday May 3, 2007 :
John Buck, the British ambassador in Portugal, called Alípio Ribeiro, the Polícia Judiciária’s national director, on the night that Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club.
At around 11 p.m., approximately two hours after the child’s disappearance was communicated, Alípio Ribeiro had to interrupt a private dinner in order to listen to the diplomat.
http://www.newsoutlines.blogspot.com/p/ambassador-john-buck-timeline-madeleine.html

Which should mean that the call to Alistair Clark, Gerry's friend in political circles, must have been before 11.00 p.m. as I would expect the Ambassador's call to be a consequence of directives from the F.O. who in turn would have been informed by Clark.

Which doesn't work with the following statement:
(23.40 Gerry calls Trish Cameron (11.13 minutes))
Sandy Cameron statement: “On the night of Thursday, May 3, 2007, Patricia received a telephone call from Gerry informing us of the disappearance of Madeleine. Gerry manifested all those emotions one expects from a father who has lost a child in the circumstances. He was distraught and spoke at the same time he cried. He seemed frustrated with the slowness of the searches in Portugal, with the fact that the borders had not been closed, and with the fact that sniffer dogs were not being used. Patricia and I contacted the British Embassy to try and help in this regard.”

That was an early and very long phone call and it seems John Buck was already on the job an hour earlier. Unless the misconception about a time difference makes the Ambassador's call to Ribeiro at midnight.



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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by Nina on 30.12.12 10:22

A torn off book cover leaves......a book without a cover. Has anyone seen on any of the photographs that were taken of the apartment such a book?

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by PeterMac on 30.12.12 10:53

@Nina wrote:A torn off book cover leaves......a book without a cover. Has anyone seen on any of the photographs that were taken of the apartment such a book?
The abductor took it. Oh, no, hang on. He was there before . . . !

For me the simplest explanation is that they were all, PJ, Tapas and everyone else, overcome by Edgar and Cowley's chloroform which had been used to fill the apartment.
There has to be some reason why otherwise sensible professional people would behave like this.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by tigger on 30.12.12 12:18

Whilst the timeline is being written, Gerry is on the phone for 25 minutes! 23 of those before 00.40 when presumably the PJ were arriving.

Somehow that doesn't tally with being stunned and sitting at the table in shock.

It looks more like hurried damage limitation, a timeline which had to be changed to leave out the Smiths' sighting and accommodate the Wilkins/JT alibi.
Imo, Gerry came back from PdL in some distress and only decided then and there that Wilkins would have to be substituted, should the Smiths come forward, it would be too late to have been the abductor who was now rescheduled to have struck around 9.15 instead of 9.45.
Because - had the sighting in PdL gone according to plan, the sighting at 9.55 was spot on for the distance from 5a for an abduction at 9.45. Gerry's presence would have been vouched for by the others. But only by the others, not an independent witness.
9.45 would also explain the empty table around that time and the early witness statements which put the time of vacating the table before 10.00pm.

According to Textusa, Kate got it wrong and called out too early. I can well believe that. So the whole thing was then repeated when Gerry came back from his walk around 10.05.

Two separate alarms would explain quite a lot of the witness statements and Kate getting it wrong wouldn't surprise me at all.

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Re: Timeline evening 3/5/07 as from 8.00 p.m.

Post by Curioser on 26.09.13 7:28

Hi all, I hope someone will see this given that it's attached to a 2012 post. 

Earlier in this thread there is this:

"... the original plan was to start the abduction at 21.45. Kate will alert the three couples at the Tapas whilst Gerry walks with a borrowed child through PdL. at a time which will fit very well with an abductor leaving 5a at 9.45, the time that Kate is due to do the half-hour check. 
When Gerry returns, he may have decided that he is in dire need of a rock solid alibi after meeting the Smiths. 
He decides to use the JW meeting and Jane to back up the abduction to 9.15. 
It must be better for a third party to have seen a man carrying the child and at the same time to have seen Gerry. The only alibi he could have for 21.55 is from the Tapas and at that time they were no longer in the restaurant if the above times of 21.40 and 21.45 are correct. 
His absence might also have been noted by other guests there e.g. JW was there earlier. So changing to the JW/JT/GM plan would probably be safer.
It’s quite possible that they did leave the Tapas at 9.45, waiting for Gerry to come back which would have been around 10.05 - some time must have been spent drawing up the two timelines after that and informing the friends of the altered plan. The absence of Gerry during that time is no problem as he could be said to have been searching and generally running around. Gerry changed hurriedly out of his beige trousers and into jeans. (The PJ did ask what he was wearing I believe)"


I get that this is why they might have screwed up Jane's timing because he needed an alibi after the Smiths saw him carrying Madeleine. What I don't understand about this is, if Gerry wanted to fake an abduction with Ella wouldn't he want to be seen? It doesn't make sense to me that he would go to the trouble of carrying Ella around if he didn't want to be seen. What would be the point?

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McCanns apt & hire car


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