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haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

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haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Doug D on 09.03.17 18:53

Well, well, getting too hot in the kitchen?

'........no circumstances connected with our resignation which we consider should be brought to the notice of the members or creditors of the company'

So WHY are they throwing in the towel then.




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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by sandancer on 09.03.17 19:06

Doug D wrote:Well, well, getting too hot in the kitchen?

'........no circumstances connected with our resignation which we consider should be brought to the notice of the members or creditors of the company'

So WHY are they throwing in the towel then.






Deserting​ the​ sinking​ ship ?    shark

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 19:17

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by sharonl on 09.03.17 20:13

How very telling

The Supreme Court Verdict is reported on 31st January and the auditors resign within 3 days

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Verdi on 09.03.17 20:15

Ooh-ah?

Maybe they've been sacked because the Fund can't afford to pay them anymore - like what they half did to Clarrie.

Or maybe they're busy behind the scenes working pro-bono.

Or maybe they've been investigated by the fraud squad for embezzlement.

Or maybe it's some boring reason like the Fund is finally being wound-down.  After all there can't be anything in he way of income anymore and there's a limit to the number of good quality wristbands people want, even allowing for wear and tear.

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by suzyjohnson on 09.03.17 21:25

Doug D wrote:Well, well, getting too hot in the kitchen?

'........no circumstances connected with our resignation which we consider should be brought to the notice of the members or creditors of the company'

So WHY are they throwing in the towel then.


Because until the Supreme Court's statement, they did not realise that the McCanns had not been cleared by the Portuguese investigation?

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Doug D on 09.03.17 21:32

Being questioned on ‘Controversy’ FB site where it comes from.
 
Sorry I didn’t put up the link.
 
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06248215/filing-history
 

   
 

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by sharonl on 09.03.17 21:36

There may be a number of reasons why an auditor would resign including:

Loss of independence

Client is high risk

The client is not in a position to continue paying the audit fees

Client is not willing to make recommended adjustments to the accounts

 Client and auditor are unable to agree on certain aspects of the accounts

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 21:40

Or maybe Operation Grange is investigating the Fraudulent Fund at last?
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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 21:43


thumbsup clapping1
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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by sharonl on 09.03.17 21:47

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Or maybe Operation Grange is investigating the Fraudulent Fund at last?


If the fund is fraudulent and being investigated, then the auditors may also be under investigation, for negligence at the very least .  Why would Grange or anyone else warn them?

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Doug D on 09.03.17 22:11

Just had a quick look at the Auditors remuneration figures from the accounts:


March 2008£13,366
March 2009£5,750
March 2010£6,169
March 2011£6,300
March 2012£6,300
March 2013£6,300
March 2014£5,900
March 2015????????
March 2016????????
 
 
 
 






Not much of an ‘earner’, but then again I can’t imagine they were exactly onerous to produce.
 
March 2015 was the year they went fully ‘open & honest’ and filed bugger all under the ‘abbreviated accounts’ small company exemption get-out clauses.
 
Brief look at the haysmac website and came across this:




 
 
Not something the Fund cared too much about it seems!

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Doug D on 09.03.17 22:18

Sharonl:
 
‘Why would Grange or anyone else warn them?’
 
Who says they were warned?
 
Three days after the Supreme Court’s verdict can’t be a coincidence and if OG have been in there asking questions, which we obviously don’t know, it could certainly have made things uncomfortable and maybe left them with no alternative but to throw in the towel.

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Doug D on 09.03.17 22:36

Blimey, 1516 users on line at 22.31 on a Thursday night!

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 22:41

We had over 2,000 earlier on!
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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Verdi on 09.03.17 23:53

sharonl wrote:There may be a number of reasons why an auditor would resign including:

Loss of independence

Client is high risk

The client is not in a position to continue paying the audit fees

Client is not willing to make recommended adjustments to the accounts

 Client and auditor are unable to agree on certain aspects of the accounts
I'll go with that option.  The decision of the Lisbon Supreme Court in favour of Goncalo Amaral will inevitably be a precursor to the Fund being bankrupted and no longer able to finance 'the search', if (or if not) required to pay substantial costs as a result of their failed litigation.  What will they do..



The Limited Company (Fund) will not require the services of an auditor until presentation of the next audit report at the end of 2017.  The accounts for year ending 31st March 2016 were submitted in December 2016 and later published early 2017.  The resignation I think is more likely to coincide with this rather than the Lisbon Supreme Court ruling. 

Something tells me the Limited Company is about to be dissolved.

If this be so and Operation Grange is wound-down when their current budged is expended, what then for the 10th anniversary?  Will they continue the bravado with public appearances of a charitable nature and fund raising activities, or will they finally leave the stage and retire into obscurity.  Oh no, they can't do they can they - 'cos the public won't let 'em!

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by The Rooster on 10.03.17 7:55

The directors of the Company have a duty to act responsibly and in light of the court finding in favour of GA they will need to act accordingly. Resignation is better for all rather than termination. Verdi has read it well in my opinion.

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Mirage on 10.03.17 9:15

Does anyone know when the donation bucket appeared in PdL? I ask, because the photograph of Madeleine on the poster is from "the last photo"  and from Kate's Canon camera which, I understand, was not handed into the police.

I am wondering if the appearance of this donation bucket predated the release of "the last photo".

ETA. Just had a dig around and answered my own question. The bucket evidently appeared outside the tapas bar in July.

Just a couple of observations -
Speaking at the Rothley war memorial IN MAY (Uncle) Brian Kennedy emphasised that Kate and Gerry were not asking for donations. It was just that people were wanting to give so the fund was a way they could do that.  He helpfully added, when asked, that it would probably be used for legal costs!
BY JULY they are begging with a bucket!

And....
The most recent photo that would have been of critical importance to holidaymakers present at the time was held back. It was only used when all those possible witnesses had gone home and then it was used to obtain money.

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Doug D on 10.03.17 11:26

Verdi:
 
‘The client is not in a position to continue paying the audit fees’
 
I'll go with that option.  The decision of the Lisbon Supreme Court in favour of Goncalo Amaral will inevitably be a precursor to the Fund being bankrupted and no longer able to finance 'the search', if (or if not) required to pay substantial costs as a result of their failed litigation.  What will they do..
 
Got to differ.
 
Personally, I think it far more likely that the recent accounts were the subject of some very hard bargaining from TM to get them through.

If haysmac have any type of ethical conscience, they cannot have been happy with the 'abbreviated accounts' approach over the last two years, which whilst perfectly legal, does nothing for the Fund's initially declared 'openness and transparency' policy, for what amounts to a pseudo-charity, funded to a large extent by the Great British public.

Even the earlier withdrawal of income and expenditure accounts, which dropped off in 2009 (Year 2), again whilst perfectly legal, was pretty dubious in that respect (although they were again published by Companies House with the 2014 accounts, almost certainly in error).

The apparently nonsensical transfer of £490k into 'Fixed Assets' when the search fund is technically needed 'now' rather than a few years down the line makes absolutely no accounting sense and then the Supreme Court decision was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.
    
Whether or not they could afford to pay what amounts to minimal audit fees is likely to be the last thing on the Fund Director’s minds.

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Mirage on 10.03.17 12:44

How any auditors stayed the course this long after supposed "due diligence" was done regarding the hiring and astronomical losses incurred by Halligen is beyond my understanding. His extradition proceedings in the US took place around June/July 2010.

On 1 Sept 2010 Dr Doug Skehan and John McCann resigned from the fund.


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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by aquila on 10.03.17 12:52

Doug D wrote:Sharonl:
 
‘Why would Grange or anyone else warn them?’
 
Who says they were warned?
 
Three days after the Supreme Court’s verdict can’t be a coincidence and if OG have been in there asking questions, which we obviously don’t know, it could certainly have made things uncomfortable and maybe left them with no alternative but to throw in the towel.
I know this might seem a dim question but being dim I'm not afraid to ask it.

Why does an auditor need to resign before the next year's accounts are produced for audit?

If it is standard business practice then does it mean the Limited Company will be obliged to openly engage new auditors in order to comply with some sort of company/business  legislation?

As I've said it might be a dim question but it would help me and no doubt others who have an equal lack of experience in this field to understand.
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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by Verdi on 10.03.17 12:56

Doug D wrote:
Got to differ.
 
Personally, I think it far more likely that the recent accounts were the subject of some very hard bargaining from TM to get them through.

If haysmac have any type of ethical conscience, they cannot have been happy with the 'abbreviated accounts' approach over the last two years, which whilst perfectly legal, does nothing for the Fund's initially declared 'openness and transparency' policy, for what amounts to a pseudo-charity, funded to a large extent by the Great British public.
Role of a company audit   [snipped]

Dormant company audit exemption may be claimed by a limited company that has not traded during a financial year, unless it is a banking or insurance company or an authorised person under the Financial Services Act 1986. Dormant companies do not need to appoint auditors and can deliver very basic accounts to Companies House.

I venture to suggest that the Madeleine Fund Limited company has been comparatively dormant for many a month/year - apart from unavoidable (?) annual expenditure, such as website maintenance and payment of auditors fees etc.  If HaysMackintyre had any ethical conscience, they wouldn't be in a position to bargain with their client nor would they have agreed to represent such a dubious company/charity in the first place.  Who selected the firm of auditors when the Limited Company was first established I wonder.

It wasn't my intention to suggest the Fund Limited Company can't afford to pay an auditors fees in the future, I was thinking maybe the auditors resignation at this particular point in time is more an indicative of the Fund Limited Company being dissolved in the very near future, rather than a direct result of the Lisbon court's decision - surely it can't be functioning as an active concern ten years down the line.

The transfer of nigh on half a million quid to 'fixed assets' could be a way of securing monies, should the McCanns be faced with a hefty bill following the ruling of the Lisbon Supreme Court.

The Fund has never been transparent, it's always been managed only just within the boundaries of law - why else would the board of directors be comprised of family, friends and sources close to the family.  In my opinion, those who work in the world of finance are for the most part corruptible.

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by JRP on 10.03.17 13:37

A "trading" limited company needs it's accounts auditing, but a dormant company doesn't. The High Quality Wristband Company Ltd, is still trading. If you are insane enough you can still donate to Mr and Mrs Suey McSueface's charity ltd.

It would be unusual for auditors not to do a final audit before signing off, it's strange jumping ship while it's still active.

Website maintenance surely equals active?
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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by jeanmonroe on 10.03.17 14:23

If, IF, the Find Madeleine Fund, Leaving No Stone Unturned, a private Limited company, was 'set up' with the McCan'ts, and 'others',  having 'full knowledge' of exactly WHERE Madeleine 'is', 'dead or alive', since 3rd May 2007, would HaysMackintire have been fully 'complicit' in accepting the 'auditorship' of a, 'possible' fraudulent erm, 'enterprise'?

And why has it taken them 'almost' 10 YEARS for it to possibly 'dawn' on them, the 'fund' COULD be 'fraudulent'?

And HM 'possibly complicit' in removing 'monies' from the official FMF into a erm, 'special fund' that nobody has any 'information' about?

Who knows? Not me!

Just 'asking'.

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Re: haysmacintyre resigning as auditors

Post by The Rooster on 10.03.17 14:52

If the accountancy firm are responsible for initiating the resignation it could be because of compliance reasons and the desire to protect the downside... Protect from what???

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