The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

Someone on the forum (sorry can't recall who) very recently mentioned the wealth of information that can be found on mccannfiles.com relating to Pamela Fenn.  Anyone interested in the subject will benefit greatly by reading, if not already done so..

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It occurred with me that the 'friend' of Mrs Fenn that spoke to David Pilditch on August 17th may have been (as suggested) part of the TM effort to leak details...  Is that possible?

As we can see it seems Mrs Fenn would not discuss directly, so could this info passed to David Pilditch be part of the 'interference'?

Tony, you would probably be able to answer that better than me, whether it all would fit into your conclusions?  If so, then I would certainly evaluate your theory again.



Also whether you would consider this statement from a police source has credibility?

It certainly appears that Mrs Fenn has spoken to the police in some manner beforehand.

Last night a Portuguese police source claimed officers had already been given statements by Mrs Fenn and her neice.


A police source said: "We have already spoken to them but they will be re-interviewed because of the new evidence we have.


"They are among a number of witnesses who we will talk to next week. They include employees from the Ocean Club."

I dont know how credible this Portuguese paper is or whther the comment is correct.

Jornal de Noticias 19.8.07 wrote:While they way for the results, the investigators are still performing some diligences, and for tomorrow they scheduled a new inquiry from a witness, who had already been heard. Pamela Fenn, 70, who resides in the apartment above the one that was occupied by the McCanns, said in May, when she was heard by the inspectors for the first time, that during the week of holidays, she heard children crying and someone shouting “daddy, daddy”. The woman, who lives alone in Luz, will clarify some doubts. The possibility that the McCanns and their friends, during their week of holidays, left the children alone asleep while they were dining in the “Tapas” restaurant at the resort, is still being investigated, as are the contradictions in several depositions

QUOTES from a friend of Mrs Fenn (Not Edna Glynn) wrote:

A friend of Mrs Fenn [not Edna Glynn] told The Daily Express last night: "She is an elderly lady who is quite nervous and was very shaken up after the break-in.


"She was surprised that neither the police nor the McCanns had approached her for information before.


"Even though she lives in the apartment directly upstairs the police had never tried to get in touch with her to ask her if she saw or heard anything the night Madeleine disappeared.


"The first time a police officer spoke to her was when the British officers with sniffer dogs knocked on her door and searched her apartment.[July 31st?]


"She told an officer what she knew and now she has been asked to make a formal statement.


"Portuguese officers have told her they will pick her up at 10am on Monday and drive her to police headquarters in Portimao.


"On the night she found an intruder she was sitting at home watching TV when she heard a noise in her bedroom.


"She went to investigate. The man must have heard her coming and was scrambling out of the window. She just saw the back of his head and arm and she tried to push him out of the window.


"She was shaking with fear and called the police. There was no sign of a break in and she thought he must have somehow come in through the front door.


"She now thinks the information may prove significant in the investigation.


"Her niece who lives in England was staying with her when the McCanns were on holiday.


"When details of a suspect were released a few weeks later the niece remembered she had seen a man fitting the description hanging around in the street outside the McCanns’ apartment.


"He was acting suspiciously and appeared to be looking into the window of the apartment. She has given a statement to police in Britain.


"Mrs Fenn says that two nights before Madeleine disappeared one of the children in the apartment was constantly screaming from around 10.30pm to 11.45pm.


"She was crying out for her dad and nobody answered until somebody returned.


"She remembers the times because she was talking to a friend back home on the phone and she was watching the news at 10.30pm.


"On the night Madeleine disappeared the first she knew of it was when there was a commotion downstairs.


"She looked over the balcony and saw the child’s mother. She was in a state of panic. She was repeatedly saying ’We’ve let her down. We’ve let her down.’


"All the people in their group were running in and out of the apartment. She asked someone if she should call the police and was told it had already been done."


Last night Mrs Fenn refused to reveal details of her evidence.


Under Portugal’s strict secrecy laws witnesses are banned from speaking publicly about details of an on-going investigation.


But when she answered the door at her apartment yesterday she said: "I will speak to the police on Monday."

HiDeHo wrote:As we can see it seems Mrs Fenn would not discuss directly, so could this info passed to David Pilditch be part of the 'interference'?  Tony, you would probably be able to answer that better than me, whether it all would fit into your conclusions?  If so, then I would certainly evaluate your theory again.
Also whether you would consider this statement from a police source has credibility? It certainly appears that Mrs Fenn has spoken to the police in some manner beforehand  [REST SNIPPED].

You have provided some most useful extra information which I shall study and reply to as soon as I can.

I will do this in the spirit of seeing how much we can extract - and agree on - from this sudden outbreak of Mrs Fenn-related stories on Saturday 18 August 2007.   

As you'll probably have gathered, I am very interested in who is/are the real source(s) for these stories, and their often contradictory contents.

And if I can be proved wrong about something - fine, so long as we are getting, inch by inch, nearer the truth about this. 

Be back later - or tomorrow

I totally understand Tony :)  I spent a couple of days going over some of the reports and accessing 3A's but that was fruitless as it didn't open until well after these incidences were being discussed.

We all know that Daily Mirror closed and though I saved a few threads I doubt if they would be of help.

I'm glad that we can both look at this to get to the  (probable) truth.

Some people may not understand that when we make claims it is because we believe in what we say but are open to alternatives and I really am trying to understand your point of view as opposed to trying to prove it may be wrong.

I have no idea what I will find to support either thought process or how it can be interpreted in different ways (Hence I reposted the friend's comments, which originally I took to be real (and probably are) but also realised they may in fact be contrived to support your theory.

Thats why we are here.  We may passionately believe in something but MUST be open to scrutiny.

Two opinions but we are working together 

Tony Bennett wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:As we can see it seems Mrs Fenn would not discuss directly, so could this info passed to David Pilditch be part of the 'interference'?  Tony, you would probably be able to answer that better than me, whether it all would fit into your conclusions?  If so, then I would certainly evaluate your theory again.
Also whether you would consider this statement from a police source has credibility? It certainly appears that Mrs Fenn has spoken to the police in some manner beforehand  [REST SNIPPED].

You have provided some most useful extra information which I shall study and reply to as soon as I can.

I will do this in the spirit of seeing how much we can extract - and agree on - from this sudden outbreak of Mrs Fenn-related stories on Saturday 18 August 2007.   

As you'll probably have gathered, I am very interested in who is/are the real source(s) for these stories, and their often contradictory contents.

And if I can be proved wrong about something - fine, so long as we are getting, inch by inch, nearer the truth about this. 

Be back later - or tomorrow

I don't know if this will help you but here is an extract from the statement of GNR officer Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa

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When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying:

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

Seems to me that this was an attempt by Murat to convince the PJ that Madeleine was alive on that particular evening.


Is this Mrs Fenn?  She claims that she had called her friend, Edna Glyn to tell her about the crying incident.

If this really is a set up - could that phone call have been part of a plan which had changed without the knowledge of both parties?

Verdi from the bewk:
 
‘I remember feeling both shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point.’
 
So absolutely nothing like the Express story above where she supposedly asked about whether the police had been called or if she should do so. It also surely can’t be correct that the first time the police spoke to her was at the end of July when the British sniffer dogs were there.
 
I’m not convinced we are going to get ‘inch by inch, nearer the truth’ (TB) regarding Mrs Fenn, from any of these statements or press reports.
 
So, her alleged reaction (or lack of) was unacceptable, but no such problem for JW:
 
‘The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I knew to be John and one of Jerry's friends. I think his name was Matt. He is white, slim, tall with greying hair. From previous conversations I knew him to be a diabetic specialist. We met him on the plane on the way to the destination. Matt said words to the effect that Jerry's daughter had been abducted, and that Jerry said he had seen me and wanted to know if I had seen anything. I said 'You're joking'. I offered help but they said there was nothing that could be done at that stage. We remained in the apartment but could see people around the pool and at the front with torches. I also saw the police arriving. We then went to bed.’
 
‘Nothing that could be done at that stage’.
 
Bit like Operation Grange. Even at that stage, absolutely no urgency to do anything.
 
It should have been ‘running around like headless chickens’ time, even if the local police tried to calm things down and get people to behave rationally. It just wouldn’t happen.
 
Is there anything in anybody’s statements that actually rings true?
 
OT as such, but out of interest, does anybody know how much darker it would have been at 1.00 compared to the lighting level at 9.15 when he was walking the streets with the buggy?
If the light level in the “Madeleine was here Part 4” video when GM and JT had their disagreement about which side of the street they were on is actually indicative of the 9.15 light, it can’t get any darker, unless the street lights get turned off, yet plenty of light to search by.




 
Faro:
Sunset 20.22, Astronomical Twilight 22.00, Nautical Twilight 21.24, Civil twilight 20.50, whatever they actually mean.

Earlier today I posted up the entire Daily Express report of Saturday 18th August 2007, highlighting in red what I thought to be of note.  This was exactly the same time that HiDeHo posted much the same so I deleted my post which was woefully insignificant by comparison .   Still, I can't let this bit pass by unnoticed.

The Express report went to great lengths to describe Pamela Fenn's claimed crying incident and the alleged attempted burglary, what her niece witnessed etc and various other aspects of the case - then went on to say..

Last night Mrs Fenn refused to reveal details of her evidence.

Under Portugal's strict secrecy laws witnesses are banned from speaking publicly about details of an on-going investigation.

and then..

Last night a Portuguese police source claimed blah blah blah blah.
----------

As far as I'm aware at the time of Madeleine's disappearance the Portuguese judicial secrecy policy applied to an entire investigation, not just witnesses yet here the Express are quoting a Portuguese police source?  So to summarize..

a) On the 18 August 2007 the Daily Express reports a detailed account of Pamela Fenn's experiences and her niece's involvement.

b)  Pamela Fenn refuses to speak to journalists because of Portuguese judicial secrecy policy.

c)  A Portuguese police source is quoted by the Daily Express as having blabbed about information appertaining to the case.

All reported two days prior to Pamela Fenn's formal interview with the PJ?

So where did the Daily Express get their information from - a source close to the PJ?  Pamela Fenn?    Her niece Carol Tranmer?  A source close to the McCann family?  Whilst the McCanns were also subjected to judicial secrecy they always maintained they had a lot to say but were prevented from doing so but since the lifting of the auguido status I don't think they've ever shared that information.  My guess is, although they weren't in a position to speak about the case, there was absolutely nothing to stop them passing on information for onward transmission to a more useful medium - like Clarence Mitchell perhaps?

Is this what happened with Pamela Fenn?   Whatever one cares to think one thing is for sure - the detail of the formal interview with Pamela Fenn - the crying incident and the alleged attempted burglary, were out there in the public domain before she was interviewed.

I remember feeling both shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point.’
 
Clever that, considering she was prostrated by grief only moments earlier according to the McMonologue (in legalese known as exhibit A).  Was it before or after she demolished the balcony with her bare fists I ask myself.

Verdi wrote:I remember feeling both shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point.’
 
Clever that, considering she was prostrated by grief only moments earlier according to the McMonologue (in legalese known as exhibit A).  Was it before or after she demolished the balcony with her bare fists I ask myself.

No mention in the McMonolgue ( I do like that ! ) of Gerry apparently speaking to Mrs Fenn and her offer of the use of her phone to call the police ! Another part of her version of the "truth " . 

Kate does seem to have a liking for demolishing the furniture and fittings , didn't she also break a bed ? Her anger issues if indeed her child had been "abducted " could surely have been better directed into actually searching , knocking on doors , calling her name asking for the use of a car to go further afield to see if Madeleine was "cowering " somewhere .  Instead she chooses to shout at an old lady ( f.....g Tosser springs to mind ) 

The bruising  on her arms shown in photos , I recently took pictures of very similar pattern of bruising on the arms of a friend who had been restrained and assaulted by her partner to show to police , not that I am suggesting Kate had been assaulted ; imho those are bruises from restraint . Sorry off topic I know this has been discussed before .

Nah - no mention of Gerald's brief conversation with the woman on the balcony above but he was rather busy.  Bit like the misses - interspersed with brief sessions of total meltdown there were important matters to attend to - matters of priority more important than looking for their lost child.  Sticking to the brief moments of drama prior to the exchange with Pamela Fenn from above, these are her very words..

Gerry and I were standing in the living room clutching each other, utterly distraught.  I couldn’t help myself, let alone try to soothe Gerry, who was in a state too harrowing for me to bear, howling for his precious little girl. I kept blaming myself – ‘We’ve let her down! We’ve failed her!’....

I was just so overwhelmed by fear, helplessness and frustration, I was hitting out at things, banging my fists on the metal railing of the veranda, trying to expel the intolerable pain inside me....

I was in our bedroom, on my knees beside the bed, just praying and praying and praying, begging God and Our Lady to protect Madeleine and help us find her.....

At some point, Emma Knights, the Mark Warner customer-care manager, came in and sat on the bed near me. She was very nice and tried her best to comfort me, but my grief was so agonizing and so personal that I wasn’t sure whether I wanted her there or not. I didn’t really want anyone around me but people I knew well. Another British woman, in her late forties or early fifties, turned up on our veranda at one point and kept trying to put her arm round me. She was quite drunk and smelled of cigarettes and I remember willing her to go away.  Then a lady appeared on a balcony ...

Has it ever been ascertained who this mystery drunk smelly woman was - I can't remember.  Whatever, Mr McCann and Ms Healy were up and down like a fiddlers elbow - both emotionally and physically.

sharonl wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:As we can see it seems Mrs Fenn would not discuss directly, so could this info passed to David Pilditch be part of the 'interference'?  Tony, you would probably be able to answer that better than me, whether it all would fit into your conclusions?  If so, then I would certainly evaluate your theory again.
Also whether you would consider this statement from a police source has credibility? It certainly appears that Mrs Fenn has spoken to the police in some manner beforehand  [REST SNIPPED].

You have provided some most useful extra information which I shall study and reply to as soon as I can.

I will do this in the spirit of seeing how much we can extract - and agree on - from this sudden outbreak of Mrs Fenn-related stories on Saturday 18 August 2007.   

As you'll probably have gathered, I am very interested in who is/are the real source(s) for these stories, and their often contradictory contents.

And if I can be proved wrong about something - fine, so long as we are getting, inch by inch, nearer the truth about this. 

Be back later - or tomorrow

I don't know if this will help you but here is an extract from the statement of GNR officer Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying:

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

Seems to me that this was an attempt by Murat to convince the PJ that Madeleine was alive on that particular evening.


Is this Mrs Fenn?  She claims that she had called her friend, Edna Glyn to tell her about the crying incident.

If this really is a set up - could that phone call have been part of a plan which had changed without the knowledge of both parties?

Thank you for bringing that little gem to the fore - I'd forgotten all about Robert Murat's claim.  That needs to be considered in the overall analysis of Pamela Fenn's involvement in my opinion.

There is only Pamela Fenn's word that she phoned a friend, not wishing to plant a rampant weed but who knows - she could have telephone Robert Murat or his mother. 

Very interesting! 

Carrry On Doctor wrote:Overall, I don't think that Mrs Fenn would be brazen enough to deliberately tell bare face lies to the Police. However, she may well have been 'got at' and her thinking influenced by some very persuasive people with an agenda, some of who she perhaps knew and trusted. Her probable sympathy for the situation (as she perceived) and eruption of chaos at the time making her susceptible to suggestion.

Meanwhile (and slightly off topic).........OG continues. The various predictions of closure and whitewash in the spring hasn't happened. I wonder why ?

re:OG

No 'closures' because a McCan't 'appeal' is still 'ongoing'

'The UK police believes us, they are still 'investigating' THE 'abduction' of our daughter, which only WE 'told' them about'

sharonl wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:As we can see it seems Mrs Fenn would not discuss directly, so could this info passed to David Pilditch be part of the 'interference'?  Tony, you would probably be able to answer that better than me, whether it all would fit into your conclusions?  If so, then I would certainly evaluate your theory again.
Also whether you would consider this statement from a police source has credibility? It certainly appears that Mrs Fenn has spoken to the police in some manner beforehand  [REST SNIPPED].

You have provided some most useful extra information which I shall study and reply to as soon as I can.

I will do this in the spirit of seeing how much we can extract - and agree on - from this sudden outbreak of Mrs Fenn-related stories on Saturday 18 August 2007.   

As you'll probably have gathered, I am very interested in who is/are the real source(s) for these stories, and their often contradictory contents.

And if I can be proved wrong about something - fine, so long as we are getting, inch by inch, nearer the truth about this. 

Be back later - or tomorrow

I don't know if this will help you but here is an extract from the statement of GNR officer Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying:

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

Seems to me that this was an attempt by Murat to convince the PJ that Madeleine was alive on that particular evening.


Is this Mrs Fenn?  She claims that she had called her friend, Edna Glyn to tell her about the crying incident.

If this really is a set up - could that phone call have been part of a plan which had changed without the knowledge of both parties?

The date of the GNR officers statement is 16th May, 2007 and it says that the foreign woman had already been interviewed by the police.

It could well have been Mrs. Fenn as she certainly would have been a foreign woman to the officer and Mrs. Fenn might well have rung Murat's mother as her friend to say that she had been interviewed about the crying incident?

Whatever else, the date of the statement shows that the GNR were aware of the crying incident very early on and far from being "plods", the GNR imo were on the ball.

Joss wrote:
Hmmm, So Mrs. Fenn's niece corroborates the sighting of the man supposedly seen by Tanner?

I call b.s.
 
(Quote)

Mrs Fenn told how she had a niece from Britain staying with her in the week the McCanns were on holiday there.

Her niece, who has now been interviewed by detectives in Britain, spotted a suspicious looking man hanging around the McCanns' apartment around the time Madeleine disappeared.

She told the officer the man matched the description of a suspect seen by Jane Tanner one of the McCanns' holiday friends.

Miss Tanner reported seeing the man rushing away from the apartment with a child wrapped in a blanket under his arm.

A second witness spotted the man minutes later rushing past the church in the resort and heading to the sea front.

The dark-haired man was wearing white trousers and a dark jacket.

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Carol Tranmer's description of the man she saw was that of a medium built man with short, close shaven, blonde hair, and was a Scandinavian/European looking individual.   Jane Tanner's bundleman had long, dark hair, and was swarthy and stocky looking.  They were complete opposites in appearance!

pennylane wrote:

Joss wrote:
Hmmm, So Mrs. Fenn's niece corroborates the sighting of the man supposedly seen by Tanner?

I call b.s.
 
(Quote)

Mrs Fenn told how she had a niece from Britain staying with her in the week the McCanns were on holiday there.

Her niece, who has now been interviewed by detectives in Britain, spotted a suspicious looking man hanging around the McCanns' apartment around the time Madeleine disappeared.

She told the officer the man matched the description of a suspect seen by Jane Tanner one of the McCanns' holiday friends.

Miss Tanner reported seeing the man rushing away from the apartment with a child wrapped in a blanket under his arm.

A second witness spotted the man minutes later rushing past the church in the resort and heading to the sea front.

The dark-haired man was wearing white trousers and a dark jacket.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Carol Tranmer's description of the man she saw was that of a medium built man with short, close shaven, blonde hair, and was a Scandinavian/European looking individual.   Jane Tanner's bundleman had long, dark hair, and was swarthy and stocky looking.  They were complete opposites in appearance!

YES @ pennylane.

Yet Pilditch's report in the Daily Express says this:

In a second development Mrs Fenn’s niece reported seeing a man who matched the description of a suspect peering into the McCanns’ holiday apartment around the time Madeleine went missing.

The above sentence is complete balderdash, isn't it? As you say, Jane Tanner's 'Tannerman' and 'Carol Tranmerman' are 'complete opposites in appearance', so we must therefore ask this question:

Who supplied Pilditch with this utterly misleading nonsense?

1 The Portuguese police?
2 The British police? or
3 Some other 'source close to the McCanns'.

I say (3). Does anyone disagree?

[ @ HideHo - still working on considering all the information you've supplied - back later ]

Tony Bennett wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Joss wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[size=16]Hmmm, So Mrs. Fenn's niece corroborates the sighting of the man supposedly seen by Tanner?

I call b.s.
 
(Quote)

Mrs Fenn told how she had a niece from Britain staying with her in the week the McCanns were on holiday there.

Her niece, who has now been interviewed by detectives in Britain, spotted a suspicious looking man hanging around the McCanns' apartment around the time Madeleine disappeared.

She told the officer the man matched the description of a suspect seen by Jane Tanner one of the McCanns' holiday friends.

Miss Tanner reported seeing the man rushing away from the apartment with a child wrapped in a blanket under his arm.

A second witness spotted the man minutes later rushing past the church in the resort and heading to the sea front.

The dark-haired man was wearing white trousers and a dark jacket.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[/size]

Carol Tranmer's description of the man she saw was that of a medium built man with short, close shaven, blonde hair, and was a Scandinavian/European looking individual.   Jane Tanner's bundleman had long, dark hair, and was swarthy and stocky looking.  They were complete opposites in appearance!

YES @ pennylane.

Yet Pilditch's report in the Daily Express says this:

In a second development Mrs Fenn’s niece reported seeing a man who matched the description of a suspect peering into the McCanns’ holiday apartment around the time Madeleine went missing.

The above sentence is complete balderdash, isn't it? As you say, Jane Tanner's 'Tannerman' and 'Carol Tranmerman' are 'complete opposites in appearance', so we must therefore ask this question:

Who supplied Pilditch with this utterly misleading nonsense?

1 The Portuguese police?
2 The British police? or
3 Some other 'source close to the McCanns'.

I say (3). Does anyone disagree?

[ @ HideHo - still working on considering all the information you've supplied - back later]

Yes I agree Tony.  Definitely 3. Some other 'source close to the McCanns'.

pennylane wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Carol Tranmer's description of the man she saw was that of a medium built man with short, close shaven, blonde hair, and was a Scandinavian/European looking individual.   Jane Tanner's bundleman had long, dark hair, and was swarthy and stocky looking.  They were complete opposites in appearance!

YES @ pennylane.

Yet Pilditch's report in the Daily Express says this:

In a second development Mrs Fenn’s niece reported seeing a man who matched the description of a suspect peering into the McCanns’ holiday apartment around the time Madeleine went missing.

The above sentence is complete balderdash, isn't it? As you say, Jane Tanner's 'Tannerman' and 'Carol Tranmerman' are 'complete opposites in appearance', so we must therefore ask this question:

Who supplied Pilditch with this utterly misleading nonsense?

1 The Portuguese police?
2 The British police? or
3 Some other 'source close to the McCanns'.

I say (3). Does anyone disagree?

[ @ HideHo - still working on considering all the information you've supplied - back later]

Yes I agree Tony.  Definitely 3. Some other 'source close to the McCanns'.

Right. So whoever it was who told Pilditch that 'Carol Tranmerman' was a dead ringer for Jane Tanner's Tannerman was an outright, scheming, lying swine.

Probably someone who lies all the time with as many teeth as he has in his mouth.

So, in all honesty, to what extent can we rely on anything else Pilditch says in his report??

Verdi wrote:I remember feeling both shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point.’
 
Clever that, considering she was prostrated by grief only moments earlier according to the McMonologue (in legalese known as exhibit A).  Was it before or after she demolished the balcony with her bare fists I ask myself.

Good point Verdi!   You'd think Kate would be busy searching for poor Madeleine, instead of hissing at an 81 year old woman whose misfortune it was to live directly above two child-neglecting British doctors', intent on blaming everyone but themselves for 'the situation Madeleine now finds herself in.'

Thanks to ALL the people who do such fantastic research on this forum - I feel like a fraud making comment when others take so much time digging up so much info.

The 'Crying Incident' is probably the key to unravelling the whole tragedy - there are just too many red flags!

I think any suggestion Pamela Fenn had not been spoken to by the PJ very early on was the usual attempt to denigrate the investigation by TM when the parents came under suspicion.

This was the how the media reported it (by and large):

"Even though she lives in the apartment directly upstairs the police had never tried to get in touch with her. Incredibly Mrs Fenn, who lives in the apartment directly above the flat the McCanns were staying in, was never interviewed by Portuguese police, it was claimed yesterday." Daily Express

Total bulllshite - TM spin.

To think for one moment she would not have been informally spoken to, as early as possible on the 4th, would be highly unlikely - she was in the flat above for heavens sake. No police force in the world would ignore such a nearby potential witness in such serious (child missing) circumstances.

The McCann's were very, very eager to relay the 'crying incident' to not only the PJ on the 4th May but to the British Liaison Officers Stephen Markley and Jim McGarvey, who on the 5th May, were asked by the McCann's to relay the incident AGAIN to the PJ despite them having both included it in their 4th May statements. They also asked these officers if the PJ had any evidence of sedatives being used.

The two British Liaison Officers had virtually nothing to say in their Rogatory Statements APART from the McCann's raising the 'Crying Incident'.

The same 'Crying Incident' that KM got quite angry in subsequent media interviews and dismissed as a wholly insignificant comment - '...she just dropped it', '...she just moved on' etc etc.

On the 4th and 5th May 2007 the McCann's obviously thought it highly significant.

Is it a possibility that the McCann's got wind of Mrs Fenn telling the PJ about something she heard from their apartment and they just presumed it must have been Wednesday (not realising Mrs Fenn wasn't even in on Wednesday) when in fact Mrs Fenn was referring to Tuesday?

Maybe they thought whatever happened on Wednesday MUST have been overheard by the woman upstairs?

Wednesday night was the night they slept in different rooms - and according to them, for different reasons. One interesting thing regarding their account of Wednesday night is that KM said she slept in a different room to GM because he pisssed her off by ignoring her. Strange that GM left first and was already in bed when she returned - the first time I've heard of the 'non aggrieved' party storming off? GM the loquacious Glaswegian leaving the bar FIRST? I don't think so.

Tony Bennett wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Carol Tranmer's description of the man she saw was that of a medium built man with short, close shaven, blonde hair, and was a Scandinavian/European looking individual.   Jane Tanner's bundleman had long, dark hair, and was swarthy and stocky looking.  They were complete opposites in appearance!

YES @ pennylane.

Yet Pilditch's report in the Daily Express says this:

In a second development Mrs Fenn’s niece reported seeing a man who matched the description of a suspect peering into the McCanns’ holiday apartment around the time Madeleine went missing.

The above sentence is complete balderdash, isn't it? As you say, Jane Tanner's 'Tannerman' and 'Carol Tranmerman' are 'complete opposites in appearance', so we must therefore ask this question:

Who supplied Pilditch with this utterly misleading nonsense?

1 The Portuguese police?
2 The British police? or
3 Some other 'source close to the McCanns'.

I say (3). Does anyone disagree?

[ @ HideHo - still working on considering all the information you've supplied - back later]

Yes I agree Tony.  Definitely 3. Some other 'source close to the McCanns'.

Right. So whoever it was who told Pilditch that 'Carol Tranmerman' was a dead ringer for Jane Tanner's Tannerman was an outright, scheming, lying swine.

Probably someone who lies all the time with as many teeth as he has in his mouth.

So, in all honesty, to what extent can we rely on anything else Pilditch says in his report??

I'd say 'an outright scheming swine' is a mega understatement, Tony!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:  To think for one moment she would not have been informally spoken to, as early as possible on the 4th, would be highly unlikely - she was in the flat above for heavens sake. No police force in the world would ignore such a nearby potential witness in such serious (child missing) circumstances.

Yes, it's too ridiculous to even contemplate - unless you follow the line cast by the UK mainstream media about sardine munching beer swilling bungling disgraced cops.

This is a very important point not to be ignored.  If Pamela Fenn was at home on the night of 3rd May and the morning of 4th May, she would most certainly have been questioned by the PJ during their door to door routine.  As regards the PJ files, if Mrs Fenn was informally interviewed on that occasion and said she hadn't seen or heard anything then I wouldn't expect her to be mentioned in the PJ files - anymore than all the other scores interviewed from the environs of apartment 5a.  If however Mrs Fenn mentioned a crying episode of long duration and maybe an attempted burglary the week prior, then I would most certainly expect her informal interview to be recorded in the PJ files, or at least acknowledged by the investigation as I would expect a follow-up formal interview.

As far as I'm aware this didn't happen which strongly indicates to me that she either wasn't at home on the night of 3rd May and/or the following day when the PJ did their house to house calls or she told them she had not seen or heard anything.  The latter being the most likely in my opinion.

Here's another one to add to the mix - Margaret Hall, the woman employed by MW apparently as a 'baby sitter', in the 2006 season. I'm throwing it in here due to the direct link the Mirror make between 'tannerman' and 'hallman' and the involvement of Metodo 3.

Always thought this one sounded particularly odd.

Apparently Thursday nights were known as 'tennis night' and the girl she was baby sitting for's parents were 'out playing tennis' at midnight. Her statement to the PJ in Nov 2007 states that she left apartment 5A at 00.30am on a Thursday night 'given that there was a problem with rodents in the apartments, she went out to have a look in the area' and discovered a man hiding in the shadows. I'd thought perhaps she was actually nipping out for a quick cigarette. When you read the report in the Mirror, dated the 20 August 2008, it states that Hall was leaving 5A 'after baby sitting' - no mention of rats. The report also includes an ID sketch produced by Hall in collaboration with the Mirror and directly links 'hallman' to 'tannerman' despite Hall not having made this connection when speaking to the PJ in November, where she described the man she saw as having 'tight black curly hair' not long, straggly hair. 

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Madeleine McCann: Nanny's new sketch echoes picture of kidnapper

• 00:00, 20 AUG 2008
  
  
• UPDATED 23:37, 3 FEB 2012
  
  
• BY [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
  
  

Revealed: Shadowy figure seen lurking in the bushes outside the flat from where Maddy vanished.

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Madeleine suspect (Pic:Photonews)

This is the shadowy figure seen lurking in the bushes outside the flat from where Madeleine McCann vanished.
And the woman who confronted the straggly-haired stranger eight months before is convinced he is the same man family friend Jane Tanner spotted carrying a child in pyjamas the night Maddy disappeared.
Despite telling police, British nanny Margaret Hall was not asked to help with an artist's impression.
Now, thanks to the Daily Mirror, a sketch of his face can be seen for the first time.
Margaret yesterday told the Mirror she saw the prowler hiding in the dark as she left through the back entrance after baby-sitting at apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, the year before Maddy was taken from the appartment.
She screamed in terror as the unshaven figure stepped out.
His movement set off a security light and the nanny clearly saw his face. "He came towards me saying 'no, no'. I just turned round and ran back to the apartment," she said.
Shaking with fear, she was later led back to her own flat.
The man had vanished but Margaret, 51, reported the incident to bosses at the resort the next day.
She was back in the UK when she heard of Maddy's disappearance in May last year - and a chill ran down her spine when she realised the little girl had been taken from the apartment where she had worked.
Her mind immediately pictured the scruffy, long-haired stranger.
She told police in her home town of Bolton and was interviewed but no photofit was ever issued.
Margaret later saw the sketch of a man carrying a young girl in pyjamas and instinctively she thought to herself: "That's him."
It had been made from details given by Jane Tanner, a pal of Gerry and Kate McCann.
Margaret added: "My description of the man is very similar to that of Jane Tanner's.
"He had long hair but it was quite scruffy and straggly looking.
"He had said 'no' in English but he was not English because of his skin colouring. He looked more Portuguese than anything."
After hearing nothing from the police in the UK, she went straight to Metodo 3, the private investigators working for Kate and Gerry.
They passed her information to Portuguese police, who dismissed it as being "out-dated".
Her information only came to light after Portuguese officers released all their files relating to Maddy earlier this month.

What was so interesting in Carole Tranmer's first statement on 8th May, photo of Sun 29th April and Photo-fit that they haven't been released ?