Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

by **tigger** 21.05.14 11:52

worriedmum wrote:Now we are back on topic, I am wondering if anyone has a link to the Dutch paper which carried the tennis photo facing the other way? It would be interesting to see which was released first.

If
the writing on the balls could be identified,
the mark on Madeleine's leg could be corroborated
the hair/direction of the fringe could be compared
it might be easier to tell which is the correct reproduction of this image.

I may be able to post it this week. I've saved it as text so will convert it. However, I'm sure it was published some two weeks after 3/5.
I'm also sure that the mark on her leg tallies with the description in the PJ files. So facing left must be the original.
Flipping it is easy but has to be intentional, it's not as if the press were given negatives or slides when it can happen by accident.

by 1soapy 21.05.14 12:54

And the pink hair clip on her left side. If a single (sided) clip, which side does it normally get put on?
And the shadow direction compared with the claimed time of day the pic was taken.
And the angle/direction of the pic/court view, to determine if inverted or not.

Can't attach the invert pic (copy and paste) as it says too long. Wanted to put both pics and tennis ball pics from google in here to assist comparisons.

by worriedmum 21.05.14 12:57

yes , I've had the 'too long 'message too. Is there any way round this please, anyone?

by Rasputin 21.05.14 13:07

dantezebu wrote:However Madeleine was very young to have needed an examination of her teeth under anaesthetic.
Two thoughts if this is what it means;
Is this where her "fear of pain" comes from?
A family with poor dental hygiene sharing one tooth brush.

Im sure I read somewhere that Calpol can cause tooth decay .

Sorry off topic I know :-(

by Tangled Web 22.05.14 10:47

Rasputin wrote:
dantezebu wrote:However Madeleine was very young to have needed an examination of her teeth under anaesthetic.
Two thoughts if this is what it means;
Is this where her "fear of pain" comes from?
A family with poor dental hygiene sharing one tooth brush.

Im sure I read somewhere that Calpol can cause tooth decay .

Sorry off topic I know :-(

Yes, it can. A sugar-free version is available for this reason but some kids can be quite fussy about taking medicine so the sugary one tends to go down better. A child needing a lot of antibotics when they're very young can also cause problems with teeth. I've seen quite a few posts on here where it's been suggested that MBM looks quite poorly so wondered if it could be related. Sorry if I've taken this further off topic.

Tangled Web.

by russiandoll 22.05.14 12:07

have never read the words FEAR OF PAIN but have read fear and pain

by Guest 22.05.14 19:52

russiandoll wrote:have never read the words FEAR OF PAIN but have read fear and pain

Kates Diary:
FRIDAY, JUNE 1: Quite fed up...I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain. How can I go on knowing that her life could have ended like this?

This week I have been quite overtaken by black thoughts. Please, God, bring her back.

by Guest 22.05.14 19:59

dantezebu wrote:
russiandoll wrote:have never read the words FEAR OF PAIN but have read fear and pain

Kates Diary:
FRIDAY, JUNE 1: Quite fed up...I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain. How can I go on knowing that her life could have ended like this?

This week I have been quite overtaken by black thoughts. Please, God, bring her back.

IIRC, man moons ago, In an interview somewhere KM said that it had been a translation issue, it had originally appeared in the Portuguese press and then translated here from her diary.

by Newintown 22.05.14 20:10

dantezebu wrote:
russiandoll wrote:have never read the words FEAR OF PAIN but have read fear and pain

Kates Diary:
FRIDAY, JUNE 1: Quite fed up...I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain. How can I go on knowing that her life could have ended like this?

This week I have been quite overtaken by black thoughts. Please, God, bring her back.

Those few words indicate that Madeleine knew pain, and had experienced it in some form (more than a pin prick when having an innoculation I would think). Was that because she was going through some regular, traumatic medical condition which required her to experience pain, hence her medical records being withheld.

Why would KM expect that Madeleine was experiencing pain (when her and GM have stated for 7 years that there is no indication that Madeleine has come to any harm??)

Even KM says at the end of the paragraph "How can I go on knowing that her life could have ended like this?". How would KM know how Madeleine's life has ended like this, didn't GM state that they were hoping that she was having a nice life with a loving, caring family who wanted to "abduct" her. Why would KM mention about Madeleine's pain unless she knew what was or is happening to Madeleine was causing her pain??

As many people have mentioned on this forum, KM lets out things in her book that may be close to the truth, she just couldn't help herself (guilty thoughts maybe).

ETA: just read the previous post - fear of pain or "fear and pain" doesn't really make any difference when it comes to a 3-4 year old child who has mysteriously gone missing.

by **tigger** 22.05.14 20:45

russiandoll wrote:have never read the words FEAR OF PAIN but have read fear and pain

Iirc it.s mentioned twice in the diary and changed in the book to fear and pain.it being too late to change the already published diary.

In itself very revealing imo. I'm copying this post to the health topic.

by **tigger** 23.05.14 6:44

Facing left is definitely the original shot:

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GM in his statement 4th May 2007 "Her left eye is blue and green and her right eye is green with a brown mark in the pupil. She has a small brown birthmark ,on the knee of her left leg"

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KM in her statement 4th May 2007 "Left eye blue-green same as the right, which has a brown spot. She has a small brown spot on the skin of her left leg as well as sunburn on her right forearm. She has no scars. "

Isn't it interesting that in the statements they don't commit themselves to the iris defect. Can't say I've seen any photographsin which her eyes were different colours, certainly not the iconic one. Yet that bit is probably true.

Kate's statement covers both poses, 4/5: the photo has not yet been released, the sunburn would be the right-facing photo, the mark on the leg the original.
So that photo was ready on the morning of the 4th. Flipped and unflipped.

by worriedmum 23.05.14 8:50

Thanks Tigger-but-

I am even more mystified now!!

First of all, Gerry describes the birthmark as on Madeleine's 'knee'. But Kate doesn't say 'knee'. And the police statement says 'calf'-which is rather different, and you might expect doctors to be more precise than the rest of us in these matters.

Secondly, Kate says the birthmark is on the LEFT leg and the sunburn is on the RIGHT arm. So even if the photo is flipped, we should not be able to see both and on the same side of the body.

Thirdly, how on earth do you manage to get sunburn on such a concentrated area? And apparently nowhere else? To be so sore looking it suggests strong sun for quite a period of time. If it is sunburn, when was it sunny enough for long enough, bearing in mind that Madeleine spent a lot of the holiday in the creche and that she would have had to have had her arm exposed. Kate and Gerry are doctors, so I can't see them mistaking something else for sunburn...

Fourthly,that whole arm looks discoloured when you look at it. Wavy darker lines along the lower edge, the sunburn and the whiter hand. So odd.

I will post images separately as for some reason I get the 'too long' message if I try to add it to a written post.

by worriedmum 23.05.14 8:51

Sandra Marques

467 to 468 Details of Madeleine as released to the media

02-Processo Vol 2 Pages 467 and 468.

McCANN Madeleine Beth CONTROL NO. : F-131/5-2007

REQUESTING COUNTRY: PORTUGAL
FILE No. : 2007123403
DATE OF PUBLICATION: 8 May 2007
CIRCULATION TO THE MEDIA (INCLUDING INTERNET): YES
IDENTITY PARTICULARS

(Photograph of Madeleine)

PRESENT Family Name : McCANN
FAMILY NAME AT BIRTH : McCANN
Forenames : Madeleine Beth
Sex : F
DATE AND Place OF Birth: 12th May 2003 - Leicester, United Kingdom
Also known as Maddie.
OTHER DATES OF BIRTH USED : N/A
FATHER'S FAMILY NAME AND FORENAMES: McCann Gerald Patrick.
MOTHER'S MAIDEN NAME AND FORENAMES : HEALY Kate Marie
IDENTITY : CONFIRMED
NATIONALITY : BRITISH (CONFIRMED)
IDENTITY DOCUMENTS - BRITISH PASSPORT No 45XXXXXXX, issued on 4th August 2003 (UNITED KINGDOM) (Valid until 4th August 2008)
Occupation : N/A
Language Spoken : English
MARITAL STATUS : N/A
DESCRIPTION:
HEIGHT : 90 cms
HAIR : Blond
EYE: Green/Blue
BUILD : Slim
DISTINGUISHING MARKS AND CHARACTERISTICS :
Left Eye : Blue and Green colour
Right Eye : Green colour with a Brown spot in Retina
Small brown mark on Left Leg Calf.
Teeth : EUA
BLOOD GROUP : N/A
DNA CODE : N/A
REGIONS/COUNTRIES LIKELY TO BE VISITED : United Kingdom.

by Guest 23.05.14 8:55

tigger wrote:
russiandoll wrote:have never read the words FEAR OF PAIN but have read fear and pain

Iirc it.s mentioned twice in the diary and changed in the book to fear and pain.it being too late to change the already published diary.

In itself very revealing imo. I'm copying this post to the health topic.

I remembered it twice too. Found it in the following day's offering. However now I will be spending the rest of the morning in a darkened room with whale songs and aromatherapy candles after going back into the most bizzare piece of writing I have ever seen attempting to portray normal human emotions by someone who appears quite devoid of them. IMO.

SATURDAY, JUNE 2: I can't remember today (which is now yesterday!). The morning was spent doing paperwork. I wrote a letter to JK Rowling, asking for her help in keeping M in the public eye. She has a new Harry Potter book which will come out in July. I asked if it would be possible to do something like a bookmark with M on.

An enjoyable afternoon—I never felt so relaxed. I felt it was wrong. S and A had fun and that was important. I also worried about what people might think, like "How can they manage to...?"

It seems that Sean is liking the beach more these days. We had tea in a nearby restaurant—good, despite still thinking that I had to do normal things without feeling guilty. We left around 7.30pm and the kids were completely exhausted.

Fed up again —poor M. Once again it took a long time before S and A were sorted. Finally went to church for 10 minutes.

Private worship (despairing!).

Cried again in bed—I can't avoid it. I need her close to me. Thinking about her fear of pain breaks my heart. Thinking about paedophiles makes me want to tear at my own skin. Of course these people, like psychopaths, aren't "normal" human beings. I was never in favour of the death penalty, but these people should be kept in a secure place. I wouldn't even complain if it was in nice surroundings, but, certainly in the case of paedophiles always distanced from any type of contact with children.

Whose human rights are more important? Those of a paedophile or of a vulnerable, defenceless child?"

Just for completeness this was written about the same time:

Undated, at the Hilton in Berlin

Scared wants to return
Fears for her fear
Reality suddenly binds
Never loved anyone this much (Note: this is written in the third person, as in 'he/she never loved anyone this much')
Never again able to be completely happy / enjoy something. I'm sorry to be asking some of these questions, but I am sure you will understand that our despair, particularly given the lack of information and resulting helplessness, may be somewhat mitigated if it gains some trust.

by worriedmum 23.05.14 8:59

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]If you look at the lower edge of the tee shirt sleeve at the point nearest the chest, there appears to be a wavy brownish line which goes to the elbow underneath the arm. The elbow looks very raw. There are marks above the wrist and then the very pale hand.
The brown mark on the calf is visible here. Could it be a bruise?

by worriedmum 23.05.14 9:08

Dantezbu, that is very interesting. Where are the Hilton notes from please?

Scared wants to return
Fears for her fear
Reality suddenly binds
Never loved anyone this much (Note: this is written in the third person, as in 'he/she never loved anyone this much')
Never again able to be completely happy / enjoy something. I'm sorry to be asking some of these questions, but I am sure you will understand that our despair, particularly given the lack of information and resulting helplessness, may be somewhat mitigated if it gains some trust.
''

I find the first three lines really strange.

What does 'reality suddenly binds' actually mean? And 'who' is scared?

by Guest 23.05.14 9:26

worriedmum wrote:Dantezbu, that is very interesting. Where are the Hilton notes from please?

Scared wants to return
Fears for her fear
Reality suddenly binds
Never loved anyone this much (Note: this is written in the third person, as in 'he/she never loved anyone this much')
Never again able to be completely happy / enjoy something. I'm sorry to be asking some of these questions, but I am sure you will understand that our despair, particularly given the lack of information and resulting helplessness, may be somewhat mitigated if it gains some trust.
''

I find the first three lines really strange.

What does 'reality suddenly binds' actually mean? And 'who' is scared?

Hi, they are at the very bottom of Kate's Diary on McCann Files along with a few other notes:
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by Hicks 23.05.14 10:35

On June 1st Kate writes in her diary ....'can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear and pain'. 'How can I go on KNOWING that her life could have ended like this?
The next day she writes.....'cried in bed-I can't avoid it, I need her close to me, thinking about her fear of pain
breaks my heart'.

I find Kate's train of thought interesting when she talks of Madeleine's fear of pain, then straight after in the next sentence she says......'Thinking about paedophiles makes me want to tear at my own skin'.

I have never seen sunburn concentrated in one small area as we see on Madeleine's arm. Possible a burn of some kind but not made by the sun.

If Madeleine was indeed drugged then perhaps it wasn't done to make her sleep but for other purposes.

Taking all the above into account, plus a government mouthpiece who's role was to speak on behalf of two negligent parents, it paints a very dark disturbing picture.

by **tigger** 23.05.14 11:05

worriedmum wrote:Thanks Tigger-but-

I am even more mystified now!!

First of all, Gerry describes the birthmark as on Madeleine's 'knee'. But Kate doesn't say 'knee'. And the police statement says 'calf'-which is rather different, and you might expect doctors to be more precise than the rest of us in these matters.

Secondly, Kate says the birthmark is on the LEFT leg and the sunburn is on the RIGHT arm. So even if the photo is flipped, we should not be able to see both and on the same side of the body.

Thirdly, how on earth do you manage to get sunburn on such a concentrated area? And apparently nowhere else? To be so sore looking it suggests strong sun for quite a period of time. If it is sunburn, when was it sunny enough for long enough, bearing in mind that Madeleine spent a lot of the holiday in the creche and that she would have had to have had her arm exposed. Kate and Gerry are doctors, so I can't see them mistaking something else for sunburn...

Fourthly,that whole arm looks discoloured when you look at it. Wavy darker lines along the lower edge, the sunburn and the whiter hand. So odd.

I will post images separately as for some reason I get the 'too long' message if I try to add it to a written post.

OK, you're having a spatial moment:

When flipped, her right arm will become her left arm. Just as the right leg becomes the left leg.

Now the mark - which can be seen is on her calf and is described in the particulars as on the left leg is on the left leg in the correct version (I'll post it tomorrow)
So if the right facing picture is the original then the description is wrong. I would think the description is right and the direction is wrong.
So, now having established that Maddie facing left is the original position, then how could Kate say she has a sunburn on her right arm, it should be her left arm.
You see the problem, Kate describes two photographs, one for the leg, one for the arm.

I think this indicates that this picture was ready and photoshopped on the morning of the 4th at the latest, but imo quite some time before, together with the other early releases, such as the Everton shirts, the iconic one, the very first one, the Donegal ones and so on. In my opinion entirely these were all done by the same person who has some aptitude in photoshopping but also uses an programme which is quite expensive and gives more options. I will try to find out the name of this programme as I know an artist who works almost exclusively in this medium.
Phew! I hope that's clearer... looking at the above it reminds me of an old joke about the two skunks called In and Out.... smilie

by bazwold 11.10.14 15:34

It finally clicked with me what the tennis photo reminded me of.

When our daughters were much younger, (they are both in their 20's now) we used to buy them
fashion 'push out and dress' comics.

If you don't remember them, the idea was to push out of the comic a torso with head, arms and legs and clothes which could be
attached with shoulder tabs. Headware was also available.

Because of the 2 dimensional apsect of the game, the head often looked wrong, especially when a hat was attached. The head
looked, almost disconnected.

That is what the photo of Madaleine looks like to me.

I hope you understood my explanation.

by HelenMeg 11.10.14 22:12

I do understand Bazwold..!

I have had a theory after reading a lot of this thread -actually it was partially suggested by G1 i think...

Re Gerry & the stolen wallet - a story I'm afraid that did not ring true for me at all.

I think that his wallet was part of a staged abduction - it was 'stolen' by someone experienced in digital manipulation / photo shopping - with G's agreement - so that particular photos could be amended.
The wallet then was returned and the 'thief' kindly and good heartedly also returned the photos that were contained within it and the data stick.

This explains how GM arranged for the photos (or photo files) to be amended and why he needed the wallet to be stolen. It explained why some photos arrived later ... he was waiting for them to be manipulated.
The thief was an agreed accomplice. However, it had to be done in this way so it was 'under the radar'.. very very good.
Of course this is my theory only and only based on what I have read- it may not be true - just my opinion. For all I know the wallet could have been stolen big grin

by Guest 27.10.14 14:43

Someone posted the Madeleine tennis balls picture and a picture of Rothley courts and they look the same(!!!).

I can't find it now.

Did anyone follow that up?

by Guest 27.10.14 14:48

I think I answered my own question. The tennis courts in PDL look lik ethey are the ones in the photo (no matter what this picture says).

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by Doug D 27.10.14 16:00

Rothley Tennis Court photo is posted on P.5 of this thread and could be the court in the photo, but then so could the OC court.

Did any more come of the suggestion that the tennis lessons were not held at these courts, but at the courts on the other side of the complex?

As an aside (and please don't follow through on this thread!) that could quite easily be 'Smithman' in the green shirt looking at the court, but then probably half of the males of similar age do as well.

by bobbin 27.10.14 16:11

Doug D wrote:Rothley Tennis Court photo is posted on P.5 of this thread and could be the court in the photo, but then so could the OC court.

Did any more come of the suggestion that the tennis lessons were not held at these courts, but at the courts on the other side of the complex?

As an aside (and please don't follow through on this thread!) that could quite easily be 'Smithman' in the green shirt looking at the court, but then probably half of the males of similar age do as well.

I remember way back, perhaps 3 Arguidos time, that someone had done a big blown up picture of the courts and analysed the difference in materials, finding what has been stated on the picture above with arrows.
I don't know if anyone else remembers this thread/discussion.