Re: PeterMac's Open Letter re: Proposed Crimewatch programme 14 October 2013 - Madeleine McCann.

by OpenMind 08.10.13 14:01

Peter Mac ~ we are not worthy !!!! youaretheman

Any chance of sending it out to everyone that still believes the nonsense in the press????

by russiandoll 08.10.13 14:07

It is a fantastic letter to the BBC.

BTW the body language btw this pair speaks volumes about where the power lies in the relationship.

by tasprin 08.10.13 14:27

I can't see the BBC implicating the McCanns in any way, but it will lose all credibility if it lies about the evidence. It will be interesting to watch how they handle it as it will have to be from an angle that somehow bypasses both accusation and McCann spin-doctoring.

by bobbin 08.10.13 14:39

tasprin wrote:I can't see the BBC implicating the McCanns in any way, but it will lose all credibility if it lies about the evidence. It will be interesting to watch how they handle it as it will have to be from an angle that somehow bypasses both accusation and McCann spin-doctoring.

You mean 'stay with the facts' as known so far !!! Nay, that's not possible. It wouldn't make for tittilating viewing, nor serve those in power who need this to be kept covered up until they die and can no longer be put in prison. sarcastic

by krisy22 08.10.13 14:41

What a absolutely wonderful piece of writing by PeterMac... to the BBC. clapping1

Surely that will not be ignored.

by tasprin 08.10.13 14:50

bobbin wrote:
tasprin wrote:I can't see the BBC implicating the McCanns in any way, but it will lose all credibility if it lies about the evidence. It will be interesting to watch how they handle it as it will have to be from an angle that somehow bypasses both accusation and McCann spin-doctoring.
You mean 'stay with the facts' as known so far !!! Nay, that's not possible. It wouldn't make for tittilating viewing, nor serve those in power who need this to be kept covered up until they die and can no longer be put in prison.

Well as we've already been subjected to the McCanns Mockumentary, I hope at least it's not going to be a BBCockumentary

by bobbin 08.10.13 15:28

tasprin wrote:
bobbin wrote:
tasprin wrote:I can't see the BBC implicating the McCanns in any way, but it will lose all credibility if it lies about the evidence. It will be interesting to watch how they handle it as it will have to be from an angle that somehow bypasses both accusation and McCann spin-doctoring.
You mean 'stay with the facts' as known so far !!! Nay, that's not possible. It wouldn't make for tittilating viewing, nor serve those in power who need this to be kept covered up until they die and can no longer be put in prison.
Well as we've already been subjected to the McCanns Mockumentary, I hope at least it's not going to be a BBCockumentary

by MikeyB 08.10.13 16:24

Wonderful letter, every angle covered, and it's absolutely the right time to send it. I cant wait to watch the program to see how Crimewatch deal with the discrepancies and variations in the statements to come up with a believable abduction that fits the facts in the Police files. thumbup

by Truthandjustice 08.10.13 17:45

Its a good letter.
I am not optimistic about it having any effect though because the BBC will be taking their lead from the Met and the Met are taking their lead from who knows where (the million dollar question!) and that is to investigate only abduction. The Met has publicly stated that the Mcs and their friends are not suspects, they could not be clearer.
Has a copy been sent to the Metropolitan Police commissioner? Perhaps he will be persuaded to consider alternative scenarios.

by JackieL 08.10.13 20:16

Mike wrote:Wonderful letter, every angle covered, and it's absolutely the right time to send it. I cant wait to watch the program to see how Crimewatch deal with the discrepancies and variations in the statements to come up with a believable abduction that fits the facts in the Police files.

Totally agree - a brilliant letter and very brave. clapping

by Harriet94 08.10.13 20:26

I am hoping that Crimewatch will focus on the 1st and 2nd May. Those children left alone crying for 2 nights running will hopefully jog a few memories. The 3rd of May might only be a useless re-enactment.

by tiny 08.10.13 20:30

Harriet94 wrote:I am hoping that Crimewatch will focus on the 1st and 2nd May. Those children left alone crying for 2 nights running will hopefully jog a few memories. The 3rd of May might only be a useless re-enactment.

the re-enactment wont be useless IF they go by the mccanns and tapas statements

by Guest 08.10.13 20:34

Harriet94 wrote:I am hoping that Crimewatch will focus on the 1st and 2nd May. Those children left alone crying for 2 nights running will hopefully jog a few memories. The 3rd of May might only be a useless re-enactment.

I have always been of the opinion that whatever happened to Madeleine, happened on the 2nd. The third was for their enactment.

by petunia 08.10.13 20:45

well done to you peter mac.come next Monday i think us vultures will see weather Crimewatch has read your letter and taken note or just skimmed through it and tossed it in the nutter's box. clapping

by Harriet94 08.10.13 20:49

I wonder if it might have been the 1st May. Mrs Fenn heard a child crying for over an hour and then the crying suddenly stopped. No mention from anyone about those poor children left alone on 1st May. I wonder if SY have completely ignored Mrs Fenns' collaborated statement. Because I hope it would have been found in their onion peeling excercise.

by **Nina** 08.10.13 21:14

Harriet94 wrote:I wonder if it might have been the 1st May. Mrs Fenn heard a child crying for over an hour and then the crying suddenly stopped. No mention from anyone about those poor children left alone on 1st May. I wonder if SY have completely ignored Mrs Fenns' collaborated statement. Because I hope it would have been found in their onion peeling excercise.

I think it was during that night the 1st through to the 2nd when Madeleine passed on.

by **sharonl** 08.10.13 21:17

Harriet94 wrote:I am hoping that Crimewatch will focus on the 1st and 2nd May. Those children left alone crying for 2 nights running will hopefully jog a few memories. The 3rd of May might only be a useless re-enactment.

A reconstruction of Gerry's movements on the afternoon and early evening of 3 May would also be a fascinating exercise - based all on his own formal witness statements, and other statements of his - and articles by his PR agents and supporters .

After featuring on 'The Last Photo', taken at precisely 2.29pm Portuguese and British Summer Time but not Central European Time...

...and later given to the press on 24 May after he had flown back to the U.K. with his camera...

...he and Kate delivered all three children to their creches...

...then got changed for tennis...

...which was either pre-booked...

...or not pre-booked...

...depending on which version is correct...

...he and Kate then played tennis with an instructor...

...but at 4.30pm his Achilles tendon was playing up so badly that he could only 'knock up' and abandon the next tennis session...

...he then 'hung around the tennis courts' for a while as Kate was still out jogging...

...at 5.30pm he showed up (according to some versions) at the 'high tea' that was apparently laid on for Madeleine's creche that day...

...after that he and Kate went back to their apartment, with Gerry acting very ungentlemanly, allowing Kate to carry a very tired Madeleine back to the apartment...

...he then apparently slunk off to the tennis courts again...

...somewhat surprising to say the least after the aggravation of his painful Achilles tendon injury...

...he is next heard of actually playing tennis again while his friend Dr David Payne comes by...

...and Gerry says to him...

...can you see if Kate is bringing the children down to watch me play tennis...

...or maybe, no, it was to see if Kate is all right...

...Dr Payne duly goes to the apartment, walks in through the patio door, sees all three children dressed angelically in white, sits in the apartment in wonder at what a fantastic mother Kate is, and stays for some time, at least several minutes, or even up to half-an-hour...

...or, no, he doesn't according to Kate, Dr Payne just knocked on the front door while she was having a shower, she quickly put a towel round her, had a 30-second conversation with him outside the front door and told him to leave...

...one or other of the above anyway...
.
..meanwhile Gerry was playing 'social tennis' with his Tapas friends....

...until about 7.00pm when he came back to the flat and helped put the children down...

Come to think of it, a reconstruction just of all that would take quite a bit of TV transmission time.

I wonder if Redwood and the BBC will be showing the bit where one of the Tapas group rips off the cover of Madeleine's Activtity Sticker Book - to write down two false timelines?

by **PeterMac** 08.10.13 21:37

And let us never forget that Kate not only arrived at the Tapas bar AFTER her run and found the entire family -INCLUDING MADELEINE - at High Tea (from the book - so it must be true)
and
At Exactly the same time
Signed Madeleine out of the creche.

How are the BBC going to reconstruct that ?

by plebgate 08.10.13 21:43

PeterMac wrote:And let us never forget that Kate not only arrived at the Tapas bar AFTER her run and found the entire family -INCLUDING MADELEINE - at High Tea (from the book - so it must be true)
and
At Exactly the same time
Signed Madeleine out of the creche.

How are the BBC going to reconstruct that ?

and will they show Maddie as being excessively tired when Mrs. signed her out of the creche?

If they do, what will the viewing public think of her parents - an excessively tired child being left on her own (yet again)with her siblings, whilst the parents went off to wine and dine?

by russiandoll 08.10.13 21:51

But all 3 had fallen asleep or so we are told when they left 5a.

I am more interested to see the excessively tired child left alone with her 2 year old siblings while Daddy was out and Mummy took a shower.

I wonder what they will be filmed doing?

colouring quietly?

sticker book game?

fighting over toys/books?

fighting over cuddlecat?

running around?

climbing on furniture?

how long on average is a quick shower, and why not wait until Daddy was back, if it could be done so quickly, once children asleep?

They had a full hour from when kids asleep didn't they?
Given that the reason crèche was out was that the children needed to be asleep before it opened?

It is going to be interesting viewing.

by plebgate 08.10.13 22:02

russiandoll wrote:But all 3 had fallen asleep or so we are told when they left 5a.

I am more interested to see the excessively tired child left alone with her 2 year old siblings while Daddy was out and Mummy took a shower.

I wonder what they will be filmed doing?

colouring quietly?

sticker book game?

fighting over toys/books?

fighting over cuddlecat?

running around?

climbing on furniture?

how long on average is a quick shower, and why not wait until Daddy was back, if it could be done so quickly, once children asleep?

They had a full hour from when kids asleep didn't they?
Given that the reason crèche was out was that the children needed to be asleep before it opened?

It is going to be interesting viewing.

..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

An excessively tired child, prone to nose bleeds. As a non medical person I would not have left my child alone had I witnessed excessive tiredness and knowing that she was prone to nose bleeds.

by Woofer 08.10.13 22:21

Logged on late today and just seen Peter Mac`s letter - yes, absolutely brilliant. And yes it should be sent before the programme IMO so they can`t say they were not aware of these facts.

In fact, it should be posted far and wide and to every journalist on the planet, so none of them can say they weren`t told.

The BBC have an arrogant reputation and think they can get away with anything so I think they will do what they want with Crimewatch. They broadcast the Jimmy Savile Xmas Commemoration when they knew the type of man he was ...... and, boy, did that backfire on them big time. Perhaps the same will happen with the McCanns.

by russiandoll 08.10.13 22:22

I take your point, plebgate. I misunderstood your post.

It is unbelievable that these people are doctors.

by aiyoyo 09.10.13 7:04

PeterMac wrote:And let us never forget that Kate not only arrived at the Tapas bar AFTER her run and found the entire family -INCLUDING MADELEINE - at High Tea (from the book - so it must be true)
and
At Exactly the same time
Signed Madeleine out of the creche.

How are the BBC going to reconstruct that ?

i cant wait to see whether BBC include the happy family at the Tapas Bar sans their usual Hol. friends; and how that is going to reconcile with witnesses statement?

Also, how are BBC going to reconstruct Kate in her bathrobe answering the door to DP, while her 3 children inside were within the vision of DP that he saw those 3 angelic looking children dressed in white ready for bed.

I really would like to see the reconstruct of the last photo at the pool as well.
And, the route they take the children to the Creche back & forth, route G&K take to the Tennis Court and all the events they did on the 3rd running up to the alert.

by Smokeandmirrors 09.10.13 7:28

I wonder if they have a few "extras" of swarthy Roma extraction strategically loitering about ready to whisk Madeleine off to a hellish lair upon a lawless hill? Just to make it authentic of course.

Or will they reconstruct an elderly Mrs Fenn phoning a friend in concern for a child wailing for something approaching two hours, with not a check in sight?

Oh, dear, how ARE they going to pull off a reconstruction in any factual way?

by worriedmum 09.10.13 8:22

If the reconstruction is based on facts as presented in statements and police photographs,we are in for an amazing evening's viewing.

It will be very interesting to see the Ritual of the Shared Toothbrush. The beige trousers on the bed. Kate going for a shower while three tiny children amuse themselves, then later going for a bath. David Payne talking to Kate for a few seconds which is also many minutes,standing outside the patio doors but maybe inside the patio doors. Madeleine lying inside the covers and on top of them at the same time. And of course the windows that are open/shut, shutters that are smashed/intact, Jane Tanner and egg/swarthy/bundleman and the Smith family and button- trouser man. Doors that are 'open much wider ' but which still don't reveal an open window to an adult checking children in the room. I will be interested to see at what point the abductor decides to open the bedroom window and curtains as a 'red herring' . Also how the patio curtains are closed and opened as people leave and enter the apartment. And how the curtains whooshed when the police photographs show them tucked behind the bed. Plus I am hoping that in the interests of accuracy, there will be some-one measuring the gap available for concealment behind the bedroom door, measuring the gap in the open window,and pointing out any missing high shelves.

It's going to be very interesting...

by sweetex 09.10.13 8:27

I am not in the UK Sad

Do you guys think there will be ANY possible way for us who are not in the UK to view this?

If someone can perhaps give me the exact channel, I can maybe somehow stream it?

Thanks

by Nereid 09.10.13 10:11

Excellent letter PeterMac. Chapeau! And a clever move to post it online. They can't say they didn't see it! They will probably disregard it, but then the complaints will flood in hopefully.

This from their own website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/page/guidance-crime-full#crime-reconstructions

"Crime Reconstructions

When reconstructing crime for factual programmes we should take care only to reconstruct what we actually know, and avoid speculation or unfounded significant detail.
We do not normally reconstruct detail, including dialogue, which we do not have reason to believe occurred, unless there is a clear and specific editorial reason for doing so. We should not use an actor's portrayal of a character to create dramatic details or an overall tone for which we there is no verifiable evidence.
In addition, we should think carefully about the appropriate use of camera angles - particularly point-of-view shots. Although it will sometimes be necessary to show a scene from a victim's viewpoint, we should take care to avoid frightening audiences by using shots that make them feel they are the victim. The camera will usually appear as an observer of events rather than as a participant.
We do not normally use close-ups of weapons or shots of blood simply for dramatic impact and the inflicting of wounds is only reconstructed where editorially justified.
Post-production techniques, such as slow motion, may sometimes have an editorial purpose - but they are not normally used simply for dramatic effect. And we do not normally use incidental music or irrelevant sound effects.
We should take care in reconstructions to avoid revealing detail that could be used to make a criminal activity more effective."

They cannot possibly do the reconstruction based on what they actually know, because they don't know a thing if they are basing it on the conflicting statements. It will be pure speculation!

How are they going to do (or have done) the reconstruction? Draw lots as to which version of events to pick? It reminds me of one of those games where you can select different options along the way. Each time the outcome of the game is totally different based on what option you chose.

by flaxyard 09.10.13 10:23

sweetex wrote:I am not in the UK :(Do you guys think there will be ANY possible way for us who are not in the UK to view this?

If someone can perhaps give me the exact channel, I can maybe somehow stream it?

Thanks

sweetex, It may be a live stream but probably delayed by a couple of hours but will definately be on www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer Just navigate to the correct channel BBC1 and watch at your leisure.

by justjoined 09.10.13 10:56

flaxyard wrote:
sweetex wrote:I am not in the UK :(Do you guys think there will be ANY possible way for us who are not in the UK to view this?

If someone can perhaps give me the exact channel, I can maybe somehow stream it?

Thanks
sweetex, It may be a live stream but probably delayed by a couple of hours but will definately be on www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer Just navigate to the correct channel BBC1 and watch at your leisure.

You will not be able to watch either BBC or IPlayer from outside the UK (well strictly speaking you could but would have to download a VPN to make your computer think it was in the UK)) but you can watch live UK channels 1-5 free of charge on www.filmon.com (Hope this post is OK- I don't do it very often).

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