Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus *UPDATE* CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

by kinell 23.06.13 8:52

Why would the SY be looking for dead paedo's when they have a person of interest who reeked of cadavar odor?

by marconi 23.06.13 9:27

scotlandMe, thank you for your comment. It became more clear to me.
My hope grows by the minute. Now I believe an action will not last long. It compensates Europe's bad summer and worse economy.

by marconi 23.06.13 9:29

again a mistake. I did not mean to write scotlandme but only the word Me.

by aiyoyo 23.06.13 9:30

kinell wrote:Why would the SY be looking for dead paedo's when they have a person of interest who reeked of cadavar odor?

Exactly!

by Guest 23.06.13 9:32

For information, Marconi, comments can be edited within about half an hour of being posted, which avoids making another entry to state whatever was wrong.

by lufc50337 23.06.13 9:46

The mobile and email evidence the PJ got but couldn't use because of a technicality. Will that be able to be used by the UK investigation?

by kinell 23.06.13 9:51

aiyoyo wrote:
kinell wrote:Why would the SY be looking for dead paedo's when they have a person of interest who reeked of cadavar odor?

Exactly!

I fail to see how asking Kate McCann how she managed to get her clothes reeking of death scent can cost the UK taxpayer £5million quid! Surely the MET have the capability of checking out her 6 corpses at work story. roll

by aiyoyo 23.06.13 9:59

marconi wrote:Tony Bennett, what is the function of a prosecutor lawyer now, whilsh there are trial nor charges going on and what can we expect of such a person?

Who sent her to Portugal, in your opinion, and is it a sign that soon charges could be brought to suspects?

In view of TB's willingness to answer marconi, my previous post is no longer valid. Thus I have deleted it.

by Me 23.06.13 10:00

kinell wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
kinell wrote:Why would the SY be looking for dead paedo's when they have a person of interest who reeked of cadavar odor?

Exactly!

I fail to see how asking Kate McCann how she managed to get her clothes reeking of death scent can cost the UK taxpayer £5million quid! Surely the MET have the capability of checking out her 6 corpses at work story.

Who is to say they haven't nor the CPS?

I think the idea of the cost of this case is for me a bit of a red herring. The costs of running a police force are fixed so there would still be the costs for these officers irrespective of what case they were investigating. Plus if evidence is brought against the McCann's or others and the case is solved inline with the general belief of the vast majortity on this forum would the cost of bringing the perpetrators to justice then be so much of an issue to anyone?

The cost of the case echoes the principal of crime investigation and resources, National Insurance and NHS costs and indeed general insurance costs and insurance payouts. The many pay their premiums (or taxes) for the benefit of the few who need it.

Personally the cost does not bother me as i want the case to be investigated and for justice to be done irrespective of the cost.

by aiyoyo 23.06.13 10:25

Me wrote:
kinell wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
kinell wrote:Why would the SY be looking for dead paedo's when they have a person of interest who reeked of cadavar odor?

Exactly!

I fail to see how asking Kate McCann how she managed to get her clothes reeking of death scent can cost the UK taxpayer £5million quid! Surely the MET have the capability of checking out her 6 corpses at work story.

Who is to say they haven't nor the CPS?

I think the idea of the cost of this case is for me a bit of a red herring. The costs of running a police force are fixed so there would still be the costs for these officers irrespective of what case they were investigating. Plus if evidence is brought against the McCann's or others and the case is solved inline with the general belief of the vast majortity on this forum would the cost of bringing the perpetrators to justice then be so much of an issue to anyone?

The cost of the case echoes the principal of crime investigation and resources, National Insurance and NHS costs and indeed general insurance costs and insurance payouts. The many pay their premiums (or taxes) for the benefit of the few who need it.

Personally the cost does not bother me as i want the case to be investigated and for justice to be done irrespective of the cost.

Likely they know they have no need to waste time checking the 6 corpses story because they know it's utter bullock.
After all their other possessions not taken to work were also reeking of cadaverine.
No cost involves here even if the MET were to want to check the 6 corpses story. Just need to ring up the Registrar or Birth & Death to verify kate's story after she'd provided the name of the 6 corpses. Can't be that difficult or costly!

by **Tony Bennett** 23.06.13 10:29

marconi wrote:Tony Bennett, what is the function of a prosecutor lawyer now, whilst there [is neither] trial nor charges going on - and what can we expect of such a person?

Who sent her to Portugal, in your opinion, and is it a sign that soon charges could be brought to suspects?

Did such a prosecutor lawyer appear on the horizon because probably the Yard has already an answer?

I am going to answer your question about the role of CPS lawyers by giving you an insight into the actions of CPS lawyers in the case of the death of Lee Balkwell, in which I have been involved for the past 6 years.

Early on the morning of 18 July 2002, Lee was reported dead or dying, trapped in a concrete mixer. Ever since then, argument has raged over whether this was a genuine accident, or 'tragic accident' as Essex Police maintained from the off, or a murder disguised as an accident.

After a cursory 5-week investigation, DCSupt Graeme Bull closed his investiagtion and out up a file to the CPS, recommending that no criminal charges should be laid against anyone.

He then, in accordance with normal practice, passed his thin file to the chief CPS lawyer for Essex, Christopher McCann (no relation, so far as I am aware).

McCann basically rubber-stamped Bull's recommendation of no criminal charges. In an interim report dated 29 June 2009 and a final report dated 30 Januayr 2012, the IPCC branded Bull's investigation as 'seriously flawed', upheld 13 separate allegations of misconduct against him, and 13 more allegations of msiconduct against other senior police officers in the case were also upheld.

A lengthy review of evidence took place. The subsequent reviewing officer, Simon Coxall, on at least two further occasions, consulted the CPS (Christopher McCann) again. Once again, the verdict from McCann was 'no crime has been committed'.

From 22 January to 9 February, there was an Inquest. Essex Police approached this by continuing to maintain that it was 'a tragic accident'. A verdict of 'accidental death' was being sought.

Lee Balkwell's father was represented by a barrister, Tony Ventham, at the Inquest. In his closing speech to the Coroner, he said, and I quote, that "there is overwhelming evidence that Lee Balkwell was murdered".

The Coroner, however told the jury that she would not allow them to bring in a verdict of homicide as there was 'insufficient evidence'.

The 10-person jury returned this unanimous verdict: 'Unlawfully killed due to gross negligence/manslaughter'.

That verdict clearly required Essex Police to reconsider the case. The jury had said that there was an unlawful killing. That meant that someone must be responsible for that unlawful killing.

After several weeks, it appeared to us that Essex Police were once again trying to close their file without prosecuting anyone. They told us that they were, quote, 'preparing a file for the CPS'.

At that stage, we wrote to the then head of the East of England CPS service, Ken Caley, suggesting that up to now the CPS (i.e. Christopher McCann) had acted unprofessionally - i.e. he had never addressed the possibility that Lee Balkwell had been murdered, and had merely rubber-stamped the clearly flawed reports from Essex Police.

Mr Caley agreed that the matter should be reviewed by an independent CPS lawyer, and so that matter was passed to Nick Staite, the chief CPS lawyer for Cambridgeshire. We were told that he was entirely independent of Essex CPS.

He has had the file for over 4 years. During that time, he has had at least two major meetings with the police and other professionals to discuss the evidence in the case. He has also met separately with myself and Les Balkwell on one occasion, and with Les Balkwell and members of his family on two other occasions.

On the last occasion, 4 February, Nick Staite met with Les Balkwell and his daughter. There, Mr Balkwell learnt what to him was devastating news that Nick Staite's line manager was now Christopher McCann, who had been promoted to Head of the CPS for the whole of the East of England.

At around the same time, we learnt that Essex Police had arrested members of the Bromley family not for a deliberate act against Lee Balkwell but for 'gross negligence', a charge which we say is not supported at all by the evidence. We say unequivocally, as Les balkwell's barrister did over 5 years ago, that he was unlawfully, deliberately, killed.

Thus Christopher McCann is now managing the very person who, 11 years ago, rubber-stamped Essex Police's 'seriously flawed' investigation. The 'independnece' we were promised back in 2008 by Ken Caley has clearly been lost.

We have complained, back in April, against Nick Staite's obvious lack of independence. We took our complaint to Keir Starmer Q.C., Director of Public Prosecutions.

It is causing the CPS a headache in how to deal with the case. This letter arrived yesterday from Mr Frank Ferguson, Acting Deputy Chief Crown Prosecuter, CPS East of England:

"Dear Mr Bennett

In my letter of 24 May 2013 I indicated that I would update you as to the position by 18 June 2013. I apologise for the slight delay in responding to you.

Work has been carried out since receipt of your correspondence to enable me to consider the most appropriate way forward but this is going to take a little longer. I will write to you again within 14 days to confirm the position.

Yours sincerely..."

It remains the view of Les Balkwell and myself that this case continues to be handled corruptly with a view to hiding the true circumstances of Lee's death and a multitude of other sins committed by Essex Police senior officers.

+++++++++++++++

That background will perhaps be an insight into how the CPS get involved in what would certainly be called another 'complex' case.

They receive evidence about an event, about a possible crime.

They advise on whether there is sufficient evidence to charge any individual.

They advise on what legal charges it is appropriate to bring.

They advise on what more evidence might be needed in order to achieve a successful prosecution.

To answer your questions about what the CPS senior lawyers might be doing in Portugal in April:

1. They had no business being there at all unless it was on the basis that there was a reasonable amount of evidence to consider a prosecution of one or more individuals for their part in the disaappearance of Madeleinde McCann

2. The fact that it was the CPS No. 1 and No. 2 lawyers going to Portugal probbaly indicates the complexity or seriousness of the possible charges, and/or the importance of this case to the British government

3. It suggests that a prosecution of someone in England and Wales is being considered

4. They might have gone to try to extract more evidence from the PJ files (presumably to strengthen the case against someone)

5. They might have gone to discuss the practicalities of a prosecution in England e.g. what witnesses, police or otherwise, might be required, how they are going to get to an English court, what will be needed in the way of translation services, who will pay for them etc. etc.

6. You asked: "Who sent the CPS lawyers to Portugal?" It must have been done, at least in part, at the request of the Senior Investigating Officer in the case, DCI Andy Redwood. Unless he already has significant evidence against one or more individuals, then the CPS lawyers travelling to Portugal would be just a sham, a performance for public consumption. No doubt Keir Starmer Q.C. was himself involved in ordering his top two lawyers over to Portugal. Whether someone else leant on Keir Starmer Q.C. to send his two top CPS lawyers to Portugal, I have no way of knowing.

by plebgate 23.06.13 10:45

Well Marconi certainly got an answer from Tony, only prob. now I am not so optimistic as I had become.

I do not doubt the rank and file officers, but you have to wonder whether there is going to be a whitewash when you read something like Tony's post about Lee.

I must take my hat off to Tony Bennett for his pursuit in the truth for Lee and his family and hope that someone will do the decent thing and investigate properly what has gone on in the past, but wont hold my breath.

by plebgate 23.06.13 10:56

Re. Portugal and its financial situation.

I did read a short while back that 30,000 civil servants were going to lose their jobs over the coming years. That is just civil servants alone. I can imagine that the powers that be would not want to make an announcement that millions of Pt. Euros were going to be spent on re-opening the investigation into Maddie's disappeaarnce.

Let's hope that any investigaiton by SY is not going to be a whitewash and waste millions more of UK taxpayers' money.

Isn't it about time that The Fund money was given to the public coffers to assist in this investigation as there is no need for a private investigation now?

by AndyB 23.06.13 11:03

kinell wrote:Why would the SY be looking for dead paedo's when they have a person of interest who reeked of cadavar odor?

As far as I'm aware they haven't restricted themselves to dead paedophiles but remember that their remit wasn't to establish what really happened to Madeleine. It was to provide the PJ with new leads to identify the abductor: "It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter." (My emphasis). Link

The whole of operation Grange has been underpinned by the assumption that Madeleine was abducted. It's entirely possible that SY have identified one or more potential abductors and the CPS went to Portugal to try and persuade their counterparts to prosecute

by Guest 23.06.13 11:03

plebgate wrote:Re. Portugal and its financial situation.

I did read a short while back that 30,000 civil servants were going to lose their jobs over the coming years. That is just civil servants alone. I can imagine that the powers that be would not want to make an announcement that millions of Pt. Euros were going to be spent on re-opening the investigation into Maddie's disappeaarnce.

Let's hope that any investigaiton by SY is not going to be a whitewash and waste millions more of UK taxpayers' money.

Isn't it about time that The Fund money was given to the public coffers to assist in this investigation as there is no need for a private investigation now?

Exactly Plebgate

by AndyB 23.06.13 11:05

Finn wrote:
plebgate wrote:Re. Portugal and its financial situation.

I did read a short while back that 30,000 civil servants were going to lose their jobs over the coming years. That is just civil servants alone. I can imagine that the powers that be would not want to make an announcement that millions of Pt. Euros were going to be spent on re-opening the investigation into Maddie's disappeaarnce.

Let's hope that any investigaiton by SY is not going to be a whitewash and waste millions more of UK taxpayers' money.

Isn't it about time that The Fund money was given to the public coffers to assist in this investigation as there is no need for a private investigation now?

Exactly Plebgate

Assuming the fund actually has some money

by sherlock 23.06.13 11:18

Tony Bennett wrote:
To answer your questions about what the CPS senior lawyers might be doing in Portugal in April:

1. They had no business being there at all unless it was on the basis that there was a reasonable amount of evidence to consider a prosecution of one or more individuals for their part in the disaappearance of Madeleinde McCann

2. The fact that it was the CPS No. 1 and No. 2 lawyers going to Portugal probbaly indicates the complexity or seriousness of the possible charges, and/or the importance of this case to the British government

3. It suggests that a prosecution of someone in England and Wales is being considered

4. They might have gone to try to extract more evidence from the PJ files (presumably to strengthen the case against someone)

5. They might have gone to discuss the practicalities of a prosecution in England e.g. what witnesses, police or otherwise, might be required, how they are going to get to an English court, what will be needed in the way of translation services, who will pay for them etc. etc.

6. You asked: "Who sent the CPS lawyers to Portugal?" It must have been done, at least in part, at the request of the Senior Investigating Officer in the case, DCI Andy Redwood. Unless he already has significant evidence against one or more individuals, then the CPS lawyers travelling to Portugal would be just a sham, a performance for public consumption. No doubt Keir Starmer Q.C. was himself involved in ordering his top two lawyers over to Portugal. Whether someone else leant on Keir Starmer Q.C. to send his two top CPS lawyers to Portugal, I have no way of knowing.

These six points “hit the nail on the head” and answer all the questions regarding “Why were the CPS in Portugal”.

In fact it is so clearly explained perhaps it would be a good idea to put it in its own sticky well labelled (and locked) thread so it does not get lost amongst the 50+ pages of this one

The wheels of justice are turning we now just have to sit and wait

by suzyjohnson 23.06.13 11:26

Remember what Amaral said during the review 'What is known, is that the affair is not going well for the McCanns'

He seems to have gone quiet just now, not like him at all, so I expect he's been told not to say anything else at the moment.

The only alternative I can see to explain why the two chief CPS lawyers would be in Portugal is if SY and the PJ have uncovered something massive, like a European paedophile ring, that would need international co-operation to bring to trial.

by **PeterMac** 23.06.13 12:09

Tony Bennett wrote:
To answer your questions about what the CPS senior lawyers might be doing in Portugal in April:

1. They had no business being there at all unless it was on the basis that there was a reasonable amount of evidence to consider a prosecution of one or more individuals for their part in the disaappearance of Madeleinde McCann. Agreed

2. The fact that it was the CPS No. 1 and No. 2 lawyers going to Portugal probably indicates the complexity or seriousness of the possible charges, and/or the importance of this case to the British government Agreed

3. It suggests that a prosecution of someone in England and Wales is being considered Agreed. And a long way to the right of "merely considered"

4. They might have gone to try to extract more evidence from the PJ files (presumably to strengthen the case against someone) Less likely. This could have been done by fax or pdf, or over the phone

5. They might have gone to discuss the practicalities of a prosecution in England e.g. what witnesses, police or otherwise, might be required, how they are going to get to an English court, what will be needed in the way of translation services, who will pay for them etc. etc. Agreed

6. You asked: "Who sent the CPS lawyers to Portugal?" It must have been done, at least in part, at the request of the Senior Investigating Officer in the case, DCI Andy Redwood. Possibly. But the CPS is its own master, and makes its own decisions. Unless he already has significant evidence against one or more individuals, then the CPS lawyers travelling to Portugal would be just a sham, a performance for public consumption. Agreed. With the further caveat that the CPS do not "do" sham, and performance for public consumption. The fact that the visit was in April, and clearly conducted under proper rules of secrecy also speaks against that possiblity.

No doubt Keir Starmer Q.C. was himself involved in ordering his top two lawyers over to Portugal. Agreed Whether someone else leant on Keir Starmer. Q.C. to send his two top CPS lawyers to Portugal, I have no way of knowing.

by Guest 23.06.13 12:18

There you are Carter-Ruck drones and anyone else homing in on Tony B, you can address all future legal questions to PeterMac.

Apologies if this spoils your fun!

by Woofer 23.06.13 12:53

Noted that Keir Starmer QC was involved in the decision to prosecute Chris and Vicky Huhne and is reported to have said ""[w]here there is sufficient evidence we do not shy away from prosecuting politicians". Ref Wiki.
Appears to be more left than right and has specialised in Human Rights - has given free advice to people facing David and Goliath type battles.

by jd 23.06.13 13:16

Finn wrote:
plebgate wrote:Re. Portugal and its financial situation.

I did read a short while back that 30,000 civil servants were going to lose their jobs over the coming years. That is just civil servants alone. I can imagine that the powers that be would not want to make an announcement that millions of Pt. Euros were going to be spent on re-opening the investigation into Maddie's disappeaarnce.

Let's hope that any investigaiton by SY is not going to be a whitewash and waste millions more of UK taxpayers' money.

Isn't it about time that The Fund money was given to the public coffers to assist in this investigation as there is no need for a private investigation now?

Exactly Plebgate

The mccanns begged monies from the public to help with the "search...Now there is a SY investigation, shouldn't this money that is in this fund be used for the SY investigation? and not tax payers money?

The government are cutting our public services to shreds left right and centre, making 4,000 soldiers redundant this week alone...yet they have millions to spend on this so called abduction where there is a fund that has monies for it. Is any of this fund money going to be spent to aid the SY investigation, or is it just going to be used to pay for the mccanns mortgage and for the rich to lose transactions in to save tax etc

by aiyoyo 23.06.13 13:20

AndyB wrote:
Finn wrote:
plebgate wrote:Re. Portugal and its financial situation.

I did read a short while back that 30,000 civil servants were going to lose their jobs over the coming years. That is just civil servants alone. I can imagine that the powers that be would not want to make an announcement that millions of Pt. Euros were going to be spent on re-opening the investigation into Maddie's disappeaarnce.

Let's hope that any investigaiton by SY is not going to be a whitewash and waste millions more of UK taxpayers' money.

Isn't it about time that The Fund money was given to the public coffers to assist in this investigation as there is no need for a private investigation now?

Exactly Plebgate
Assuming the fund actually has some money

Don't forget if no rich supporter picked up the 1/3 million pounds tab for them (to gag TB completely and totally) that would presumably be paid from the Fund unless CR waived it, so there's probably nothing left.

Not sure what little left (if any) can be used for future defense purpose if and when they're in the dock, for obvious reason.

by aiyoyo 23.06.13 13:23

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:There you are Carter-Ruck drones and anyone else homing in on Tony B, you can address all future legal questions to PeterMac.

Apologies if this spoils your fun!

I wonder if Kevin is still loitering around these days?

by Guest 23.06.13 13:24

Perhaps Admin can tell us if a Carter-Ruck computer is still getting over-heated from being online here for hours.

Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

scotland yard takes...

scotland yard takes

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Re: Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus UPDATE CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

Log in for more topics