Scotland Yard takes over the inquiry into Maddie's disappearance from Portuguese plus *UPDATE* CPS lawyers fly to Portugal

aiyoyo wrote:Pertinent questions:
Why wasn't the evidence brought to CPS in UK instead?
Unless they went there to confer with their Portuguese counterparts.

An intelligent guess would be the Portuguese have no travel budget because case is not alive and not reactivated. 
While the CPS travel allowance was sanctioned by Home Office.  
In that case it would be interesting to know which side prosecutors will try the case.
If in Portugal, where does the CPS come in?
If in UK, will the Portuguese agree to have it transferred over provided it is legally feasible to do so.

paddinton wrote:From the CPS Website:


Guidance

Generally
In cross-border cases involving England and Wales and other jurisdictions, the best practice is for prosecutors and investigators of the relevant jurisdictions to meet face to face to consider and balance the different factors that should be considered when reaching a decision where to prosecute.  

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/jurisdiction/

paddinton wrote:From the CPS Website:


Guidance

Generally
In cross-border cases involving England and Wales and other jurisdictions, the best practice is for prosecutors and investigators of the relevant jurisdictions to meet face to face to consider and balance the different factors that should be considered when reaching a decision where to prosecute.  

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/jurisdiction/

question to Tony Bennett: after the trial is it possible to confiscate all of the assets of Tapas 9 in order to help paying the costs of the review?Tony Bennett wrote:I think I may only be repeating what PeterMac has said earlier, but certainly - after looking at the CPS website again tonight - the following can clearly be said about normal CPS operations:

They only get involved when...

...the police already have some evidence...

...about a possible crime...

...committed by a living person...

...that has resulted from a police investigation in England and Wales...

marconi wrote:

question to Tony Bennett: after the trial is it possible to confiscate all of the assets of Tapas 9 in order to help paying the costs of the review?Tony Bennett wrote:I think I may only be repeating what PeterMac has said earlier, but certainly - after looking at the CPS website again tonight - the following can clearly be said about normal CPS operations:

They only get involved when...

...the police already have some evidence...

...about a possible crime...

...committed by a living person...

...that has resulted from a police investigation in England and Wales...

aiyoyo wrote:He's shy when it suits him.

What can be say anyway in this situation? That the CPS were there to interview the 6 Brit cleaners?

marconi wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:He's shy when it suits him.

What can be say anyway in this situation? That the CPS were there to interview the 6 Brit cleaners?

Yes, aiyoyo, they need people to help them in their household.

aquila wrote:

marconi wrote:

question to Tony Bennett: after the trial is it possible to confiscate all of the assets of Tapas 9 in order to help paying the costs of the review?Tony Bennett wrote:I think I may only be repeating what PeterMac has said earlier, but certainly - after looking at the CPS website again tonight - the following can clearly be said about normal CPS operations:

They only get involved when...

...the police already have some evidence...

...about a possible crime...

...committed by a living person...

...that has resulted from a police investigation in England and Wales...

Marconi, I'm lost. Who is the original poster you quote? Who asked the question? Would it be possible for you to quote the post in full otherwise it's not clear what you are getting at (it could be me being dim so I thank you in advance if you could do this).

aquila wrote:

marconi wrote:

question to Tony Bennett: after the trial is it possible to confiscate all of the assets of Tapas 9 in order to help paying the costs of the review?Tony Bennett wrote:I think I may only be repeating what PeterMac has said earlier, but certainly - after looking at the CPS website again tonight - the following can clearly be said about normal CPS operations:

They only get involved when...

...the police already have some evidence...

...about a possible crime...

...committed by a living person...

...that has resulted from a police investigation in England and Wales...

Marconi, I'm lost. Who is the original poster you quote? Who asked the question? Would it be possible for you to quote the post in full otherwise it's not clear what you are getting at (it could be me being dim so I thank you in advance if you could do this).

marconi wrote:

question to Tony Bennett: after the trial is it possible to confiscate all of the assets of Tapas 9 in order to help paying the costs of the review?Tony Bennett wrote:I think I may only be repeating what PeterMac has said earlier, but certainly - after looking at the CPS website again tonight - the following can clearly be said about normal CPS operations:

They only get involved when...

...the police already have some evidence...

...about a possible crime...

...committed by a living person...

...that has resulted from a police investigation in England and Wales...

Lostfridge wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

Lostfridge wrote:This all still feels like a ploy by SY to get hold of the unreleased information, and not for the right reasons!....?

And, where might they get them from?
It's in the Portuguese possession and if the Portuguese should deny them the files how are they going lay hands on them?
Playing tactics or games with the Portuguese is going to worsen the relationship.

No, I don't think they are after unreleased data presuming some is still denied to them, which I doubt, else it defeats the purpose of joint review.
I believe they must have finished examining the papers and need to do get hands on in the investigation to finish  what where the Portuguese left off when they were hampered  No valid reason for the Brits to refuse to cooperate with the METS.  All the lame excuses they used with the Portuguese would be useless if used on the MET.  JMO as usual.

The answer is in the original question and reply. The same way the UK got the information from the original investigation, by being on the ground supposedly helping! and I am sure many of those officials where trying to help, but who was helping get hold of the credit card and medical records, no one?. Who supplied the reading material and manuals to the Mccanns!. Why did all the UK police skip town once the Mccanns did?.  

I will repeat my main point again.. WHY NOW?. Why would the UK powers that be suddenly help to conclude this now? they had the chance years ago. This is the simple reason I do not trust the SY review.

jd wrote:

aquila wrote:

marconi wrote:

question to Tony Bennett: after the trial is it possible to confiscate all of the assets of Tapas 9 in order to help paying the costs of the review?Tony Bennett wrote:I think I may only be repeating what PeterMac has said earlier, but certainly - after looking at the CPS website again tonight - the following can clearly be said about normal CPS operations:

They only get involved when...

...the police already have some evidence...

...about a possible crime...

...committed by a living person...

...that has resulted from a police investigation in England and Wales...

Marconi, I'm lost. Who is the original poster you quote? Who asked the question? Would it be possible for you to quote the post in full otherwise it's not clear what you are getting at (it could be me being dim so I thank you in advance if you could do this).

The question Tony posted to had nothing to do with the confiscation all of the assets of Tapas 9 in order to help paying the costs of the review. It was in answer to the significance of the CPS being in Portugal

jozi wrote:

jd wrote:

tiny wrote:The potential suspects are thought to include a handful of known child-sex offenders who are believed to have been in the Algarve when Madeleine disappeared.
The visit by senior CPS lawyers underlines the belief among senior detectives that the case could be solved.

raymond hewlett anyone! :biggrin:Classic set-up

Why would they try to set up Hewlett, the man is dead...... but what about the two who's file is empty ?

lj wrote:

jozi wrote:

jd wrote:

tiny wrote:The potential suspects are thought to include a handful of known child-sex offenders who are believed to have been in the Algarve when Madeleine disappeared.
The visit by senior CPS lawyers underlines the belief among senior detectives that the case could be solved.

raymond hewlett anyone! :biggrin:Classic set-up

Why would they try to set up Hewlett, the man is dead...... but what about the two who's file is empty ?

Hewlett is the perfect patsy: he's dead and cannot prove or disprove anything. And the conning couple will be on everyone's nerves for ever. Imagine every christmas: we know the abductor is dead, but their is no proof that Maddie uh margareth, uh what was her name, has come to any harm. So fill the collecting bowls.

rainbow-fairy wrote:

The question Tony posted to had nothing to do with the confiscation all of the assets of Tapas 9 in order to help paying the costs of the review. It was in answer to the significance of the CPS being in Portugal
Thanks jd, just as I recalled - nothing to do with costs.
SO - why tag it onto one of Tony's quoting the CPS website, and WHY Tony?
I'll apologise if I am wrong but unless marconi just missed aquila's question, I don't think she'll get a reply...

Lance De Boils wrote:For the CPS to be involved, the Met must be intending to make arrests and bring charges.  If the police weren't at that stage, there would be no CPS involvement, surely. And what's more, those arrests must be on British soil.
Unless I'm missing something.

Lance De Boils wrote:For the CPS to be involved, the Met must be intending to make arrests and bring charges.  If the police weren't at that stage, there would be no CPS involvement, surely. And what's more, those arrests must be on British soil.
Unless I'm missing something.

Lance De Boils wrote:For the CPS to be involved, the Met must be intending to make arrests and bring charges.  If the police weren't at that stage, there would be no CPS involvement, surely. And what's more, those arrests must be on British soil.
Unless I'm missing something.

suzyjohnson wrote:

Kepharel wrote:Just a short while ago everyone was discussing the extra funding being given for SY to take over the case.  Now everyone seems to be thinking the CPS involvement means it's all but over.  No re-interviews of TM and the TAPAS 7 so it can't be them????  Just wondering if I missed something??

Miraflores'But they wouldn't need to go to Portugal if it was only the McCanns and the rest of the Tapas crew they were interested in. Is Murat still out there? Is he going to be hauled in again, I wonder?'



Well, this is how it seems to me. The SY have completed a Review of the evidence, evaluating and eliminating various possibilities, and will have taken into account the Portuguese position on things. 

Portugal has already spent a fortune looking for MM. They have made it clear that they wish the Tapas group to take part in a reconstruction in order to proceed with the case. (The PJ will have drawn their own conclusions from the fact that none of the Tapas group will take part) Aside from that, they will reopen the investigation if further evidence comes to light. It would cost Portugal another fortune to extradite the McCanns (and possibly others) to Portugal to face a trial for which, at the moment, they don't necessarily have all the evidence they need to get a conviction. 

The PJ are in a different situation to SY, in that the McCanns have started and STILL CONTINUE with a fund IN THE UK which, IF the McCanns (and others) do already know what happened to MM, would be a fraud. The fund issue, which presumably collects mainly from British people, is not so much the concern of the Portuguese. However, SY would have to solve the first case (MM's disappearance) in order to prove, or disprove, that the fund was a fraud.   

The Chief Crown Prosecutor and Assistant have visited Portugal. I assume that would be to discuss with SY and the PJ, what evidence would be needed in order to secure a conviction in relation to MM's disappearance and / or, if necessary, in relation to fraud. Following from these discussions, the SY are now taking on an investigative role, the advantages of this might be -
i) they could interview in the Uk, at a cheaper cost than the Portuguese, without need for translators for example
ii) no need for expensive extradition proceedings
iii) possibly a trial taking place in the Uk, which is where many of the witnesses live

In order to proceed with the case the SY would need to have all the evidence available before interviewing /reinterviewing, and also might be in the process of sorting out any legal problems between the two countries. For their part, the British government, I think would be looking to restore good diplomatic relations with the Portuguese, and I hope, with all of this costing so much, would be taking matters very seriously indeed.

Monty Heck wrote:

suzyjohnson wrote:

Kepharel wrote:Just a short while ago everyone was discussing the extra funding being given for SY to take over the case.  Now everyone seems to be thinking the CPS involvement means it's all but over.  No re-interviews of TM and the TAPAS 7 so it can't be them????  Just wondering if I missed something??

Miraflores'But they wouldn't need to go to Portugal if it was only the McCanns and the rest of the Tapas crew they were interested in. Is Murat still out there? Is he going to be hauled in again, I wonder?'



Well, this is how it seems to me. The SY have completed a Review of the evidence, evaluating and eliminating various possibilities, and will have taken into account the Portuguese position on things. 

Portugal has already spent a fortune looking for MM. They have made it clear that they wish the Tapas group to take part in a reconstruction in order to proceed with the case. (The PJ will have drawn their own conclusions from the fact that none of the Tapas group will take part) Aside from that, they will reopen the investigation if further evidence comes to light. It would cost Portugal another fortune to extradite the McCanns (and possibly others) to Portugal to face a trial for which, at the moment, they don't necessarily have all the evidence they need to get a conviction. 

The PJ are in a different situation to SY, in that the McCanns have started and STILL CONTINUE with a fund IN THE UK which, IF the McCanns (and others) do already know what happened to MM, would be a fraud. The fund issue, which presumably collects mainly from British people, is not so much the concern of the Portuguese. However, SY would have to solve the first case (MM's disappearance) in order to prove, or disprove, that the fund was a fraud.   

The Chief Crown Prosecutor and Assistant have visited Portugal. I assume that would be to discuss with SY and the PJ, what evidence would be needed in order to secure a conviction in relation to MM's disappearance and / or, if necessary, in relation to fraud. Following from these discussions, the SY are now taking on an investigative role, the advantages of this might be -
i) they could interview in the Uk, at a cheaper cost than the Portuguese, without need for translators for example
ii) no need for expensive extradition proceedings
iii) possibly a trial taking place in the Uk, which is where many of the witnesses live

In order to proceed with the case the SY would need to have all the evidence available before interviewing /reinterviewing, and also might be in the process of sorting out any legal problems between the two countries. For their part, the British government, I think would be looking to restore good diplomatic relations with the Portuguese, and I hope, with all of this costing so much, would be taking matters very seriously indeed.

Away last week in Portugal so just catching up with these developments.  In the UK people are complaining about austerity and the effects of the recession but what's happening here is nothing compared to what's going on over there.   The demands of the Troika are having a devastating effect on the economy which is seriously affecting people's daily lives and another national strike is being organised. 

I'd come to the conclusion that it's pointless hoping the Portuguese will ever reopen the case.  They simply can't afford to; in summer 2008 they were in a far better financial position than now but had concluded there wasn't enough evidence to secure a conviction, and even if there were to be a trial, there would be difficulties and costs involved in extraditing the relevant parties.  The visit of the CPS officers and approval for SY to extend their role to an investigating one overcomes most of the major obstacles which brought the previous investigation to a halt, as Miraflores points out. 

It seems unlikely that all of this is merely for sake of a whitewash but there must still be some way to go before any decision on whether to prosecute, or indeed whom.  What is encouraging is that, having already spent X millions on the review, there were sufficient grounds for the CPS visit to Portugal to discuss the case, followed by a green light for SY to investigate.  This investigation cannot fail and prospects of success will have been weighed before further funding agreed so this all seems very positive indeed.PS PDL was lovely and good to see plenty of young families enjoying their holidays.  No reminders anywhere of the case, not even a poster at the church so the McC effect seems to be fading at last.  Happily, no sign of the McCs themselves either.