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Is it libellous to say that Madeleine's disappearance is a 'mystery'? Mm11

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Is it libellous to say that Madeleine's disappearance is a 'mystery'?

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To say that Madeleine's disappearance is a complete mystery...

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Is it libellous to say that Madeleine's disappearance is a 'mystery'? Empty Is it libellous to say that Madeleine's disappearance is a 'mystery'?

Post by Tony Bennett on 06.02.12 19:26

Ploughing through 2,000 pages of documents, sent in a large box of 5 Lever Arch files by Carter-Ruck - which are designed to send me to prison - does have its lighter moments (though not many).

An early blast from Carter-Ruck came in the form of an e-mail from Isabel Hudson on 5 February 2010. This was the very day after a certain Mike Gunnill appeared on this forum to announce that at 8.00am that morning, a courier had collected from him a copy of '60 Reasons', after he'd pretended to be Michael Sangerte, who 'needed a physical copy of the book for historical reasons. He'd done this on behalf of an unnamed 'third party' Naturally Carter-Ruck rammed home the fact that I had 'sold a book contrary to your undertaking'.

But the letter also breathed fire about another matter - a particular sentence on our website.

Have a look at the sequence of events below.

Then have a go at the opinion poll:

++++++++++++++++

Madeleine Foundation statement on our website, January 2010:

“The fact is that the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains a mystery”

Letter from Isabel Hudson of Carter-Ruck, 5 February 2010:

“The statement on your website ‘The fact is that the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains a mystery’ constitutes a further actionable libel. Readers of your website will have understood this statement to mean that there are indeed grounds to suspect our clients of having caused the death of their daughter and having conspired to cover this up”.

Clarence Mitchell 19 February 2010, interviewed on TV after Goncalo Amaral lost his appeal against the banning of his book:

“The search for Madeleine will not stop. Kate and Gerry will not give up until they know what’s happened to their daughter, and, at the moment, it remains a complete mystery…”
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Post by aquila on 06.02.12 19:45

An addition to the lighter side was when you had to return one of the lever arch files. Is it libellous to say that Madeleine's disappearance is a 'mystery'? 742129
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Post by jd on 06.02.12 19:49

“The statement on your website ‘The fact is that the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains a mystery’ constitutes a further actionable libel. Readers of your website will have understood this statement to mean that there are indeed grounds to suspect our clients of having caused the death of their daughter and having conspired to cover this up”.

??????????...never heard anything so ridiculous in my entire life

Not everyone in this country is a sheep and believes everything they read or are told ms hudson! We have our own minds

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Post by Gillyspot on 06.02.12 19:53

It is criminal that Carter-Ruck can be allowed to say this libel. It is just as mad as Tony reproducing the 48 questions that are all over the internet. It is time UK libel laws were stiffened up and made more equitable in the process, as it has clearly gone to far towards the litigant (if their pockets are deep enough).

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Post by Miraflores on 06.02.12 19:55

Readers
of your website will have understood this statement to mean that there
are indeed grounds to suspect our clients of having caused the death of
their daughter and having conspired to cover this up”.

Well, I didn't think that, and don't take kindly to Carter Ruck telling me what I am supposed to have thought.

Even if an abduction had happened the way the McCanns said it did, it's still mysterious because it begs the questions why,how and what has happened to Madeleine since that date?
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Post by tigger on 06.02.12 19:57

I didn't believe anything Tony Blair ever said, am I in trouble here? What with the wife being a judge and all and them having plenty of money to sue me as that may mean that amongst other crimes he committed, it could mean that his reputation would be tarnished with me implying by my above statement that he committed a crime by invading Iraq.

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Post by Gillyspot on 06.02.12 20:04

neither do I tigger but then I don't believe anything any politician says. The entire parliament full of liars can get a group discount to sue me together for saying this.

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Post by maebee on 06.02.12 20:07

Letter from Isabel Hudson of Carter-Ruck, 5 February 2010: “The statement on your website ‘The fact is that the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains a mystery’ constitutes a further actionable libel. Readers of your website will have understood this statement to mean that there are indeed grounds to suspect our clients of having caused the death of their daughter and having conspired to cover this up”.

Absolutely ludicrous. The disappearance of MM IS a complete mystery. Fact.

Isabel, you're reading too much into what readers understand a mystery to be. A mystery is something which cannot be explained, which is the case here. Even believers of the McCann's version of events (I am not one of those, btw) will admit that Madeleine's disappearance is a mystery. Because it is. Even Clarence Mitchell admitted so.
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Post by tiny on 06.02.12 20:14

oh dear your in trouble clarence after saying this{quote}

“The search for Madeleine will not stop. Kate and Gerry will not give up until they know what’s happened to their daughter, and, at the moment, it remains a complete mysteryIs it libellous to say that Madeleine's disappearance is a 'mystery'? 110921
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Post by pennylane on 06.02.12 20:24

CSI dogs clearly alerted to the scent of blood and cadaver odour in the McCanns holiday let and on various items pertaining to them, including Kate's clothing, and an article of Madeleine's clothing. This, and other alarming circumstances have given me "grounds to suspect" Madeleine may have died in the holiday apartment, although it is a mystery to me exactly what happened next.
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Post by Guest on 06.02.12 20:30

Well taken out of context, I could take it to read that Carter Ruck say, and I quote:
"...there are indeed grounds to suspect our clients of having caused the death of their daughter and having conspired to cover this up”...
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Post by Daisy on 06.02.12 20:31

To say that Madeleine's disappearance is a complete mystery...

Is the truth - a fact! No one knows where she is, she hasn't been found. Her disappearance is a "complete mystery". How can it be libel to state the truth? Why didn't CR threaten the Daily Telegraph or the Christian Post or the dozens of other sites/blogs/forums that state this fact? What a joke! Is it libellous to say that Madeleine's disappearance is a 'mystery'? 110921


"Madeleine McCann disappearance still a mystery"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/portugal/5254409/Madeleine-McCann-disappearance-still-a-mystery.html



"Madeleine's Disappearance Remains a Mystery"

http://www.christianpost.com/news/madeleine-s-disappearance-remains-a-mystery-28047/

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Post by Smokeandmirrors on 06.02.12 20:43

Of course it's a mystery! What are Carter Ruck implying? Is the truth somehow illegal these days? I suppose when CR read the proof of Kate's book they didn't consider it libellous to refer to two policemen as Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dee, or someone else as an effing to$$er? Oh no. That was OK wasn't it? But in any case, if Ms Hudson knows/suspects/demands it is NOT a mystery, shouldn't she be telling the authorities. Or is it just Tony who can't state the bleeding' obvious?

When the truth is libel, democracy is dead. Justice is not justice any more, it's selective and those with pound signs flashing in their eyes keep moving the goalposts.




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Post by uppatoffee on 06.02.12 20:46

Of course it's a mystery, otherwise we would know where she is!

There are a few other mysteries, while we are thinking about it!

It is a mystery to me how anyone could believe the abduction theory given the completely lack of credible evidence. Mr

It is a mystery to me why Kate and Gerry claimed the shutters had been damaged given they were not.

It is a mystery to me what David Payne and Kate got up to in their 5/30 min meeting.

It is a mystery why the photo of Madeleine released looked nothing like her

I could go on and on! big grin

What is not a mystery is is that CR must be being paid a lot of money to pursue all this. Ridiculous. Just shows the extent of the paranoia in TM. We are here because we didn't swallow the TM nonsense in the first place.

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Post by OpenMind on 06.02.12 20:52

I don't see how anybody at all could take offense at MBM's disappearance being decribed as a mystery because factually that it what it is!

No body has been found to confirm a death by whatever means.
MBM has not been discovered in the "care" of a person/people other than her parents to confirm an abduction.

The whereabouts of MBM, alive or dead, are unknown and therefore a mystery. Unless anyone involved cares to enlighten the world with decisive proof I suspect it will stay that way for a very long time.

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Post by Ollie on 06.02.12 21:16

Carter Ruck are in danger of making themselves look ludicrous. Clarence Mitchell said it was a mystery, so what is their response to that?
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Post by Guest on 06.02.12 22:11

All together now - let's have a rousing chorus of the old Toyah song "It's a mystery".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1c1ed72arI

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Post by jd on 06.02.12 22:17

Carter Ruck are saying we are all sheep brain and believe everything we read....thats libellous to us to make this accusation to our character I think!

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Post by Woofer on 06.02.12 23:34

Hello - This is my first comment although I`ve been visiting for yonks - I usually just comment on MM forum and occasionally on JoM`s.

But on reading this latest post of Tony`s I am so shocked with disbelief, I felt I just had to say something.

I think pretty much the whole country knows that a certain firm of lawyers overstep, what most of us consider moral boundaries, but I really think they`ve gone absolutely bonkers now. I just don`t belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeve it ........ that they could be such twits.

Like most bullies - give `em enough rope and they will eventually hang themselves. They didn`t have much credibility before, but they certainly `aint got any now.

P.S. All the best for the court case Tony.
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Post by PeterMac on 07.02.12 10:02

If Carter-Ruck are saying that it is NOT a mystery, they should be put on notice to tell the world, and the police in both countries, exactly what did happen, giving all the supporting evidence. They should then be cross examined as to why they have withheld this information for so long.

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Post by tigger on 07.02.12 10:09

@PeterMac wrote:If Carter-Ruck are saying that it is NOT a mystery, they should be put on notice to tell the world, and the police in both countries, exactly what did happen, giving all the supporting evidence. They should then be cross examined as to why they have withheld this information for so long.

The voice of reason! clapping1

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Post by littlepixie on 07.02.12 10:10

It is a complete mystery to me what happened to Madeleine McCann and to everyone else on the earth. Until she is found it will REMAIN a mystery. The only people it wouldn't be a mystery to are the ones who know where she is and who put her there.

Eta EXACTLY PeterMac
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Post by tigger on 07.02.12 10:25

Readers of your website will have understood this statement to mean that there are indeed grounds to suspect our clients of having caused the death of their daughter and having conspired to cover this up”.

Mindreaders, evidently - CR. It reminds me of a sporting event where I was about to be given a point against me since the referee said 'he could see me thinking about stepping off the piste'. I won my case, obviously. I also assured the referee that he could not have seen me think, since I don't.

In this case I have not understood this to be the conclusion that CR has so clearly outlined. Mind readers indeed.
We do not understand! Therefore it is a mystery to us.
We are simply looking for documented facts, of which there are many. But we are grateful, now that you have suggested one possible solution we will not fail to look into it, namely: that there are indeed grounds to suspect our clients of having caused the death of their daughter and having conspired to cover this up”.
Thank you CR for your incisive comments, future clients may take note of this point in law.

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Post by Ross on 07.02.12 10:38

Jean wrote:All together now - let's have a rousing chorus of the old Toyah song "It's a mystery".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1c1ed72arI

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Perhaps this is the Carter-Ruck theme song?
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Post by PeterMac on 07.02.12 11:18

@littlepixie wrote:It is a complete mystery to me what happened to Madeleine McCann and to everyone else on the earth. Until she is found it will REMAIN a mystery. The only people it wouldn't be a mystery to are the ones who know where she is and who put her there.
Eta EXACTLY PeterMac
Quite so.
Perhaps Carter-Ruck already know. Perhaps the McCanns have confessed to them. Perhaps Gerry and Katie have actually told them the details of what happened.
In which case the disappearance is only a mystery to us, who do not know.
Though that qualifies as ignorance of the facts, not libel.

(It would still be a matter of concern that Carter-Ruck had not divulged this intelligence to anyone, though they might be hiding behind lawyer-client privilege)

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