Re: A TENSE SITUATION by Dr Martin Roberts

by ultimaThule 01.04.14 10:56

You have no need to convince me, Tony. I'm well aware of the extent of the corruption which is inherent in the UK's police forces and I know that, together with their political masters, those in the very highest eschelons of power consider no dirty trick beneath them if it serves as a means to their ends.

Nevertheless, I maintain that, regardless of rank, the needless death of a child at the hands of its parent(s) is a matter which even the most hardened nine bob copper will balk at covering up, and more particularly when that child has not been properly laid to rest in a decent and fitting manner.

For the time being, I will continue to put my faith in the numbers which, as I see it, are stacking up against those who've committed heinous crimes against a defenceless little girl.

by **Tony Bennett** 01.04.14 14:35

ultimaThule wrote:You have no need to convince me, Tony. I'm well aware of the extent of the corruption which is inherent in the UK's police forces and I know that, together with their political masters, those in the very highest echelons of power consider no dirty trick beneath them if it serves as a means to their ends.

Thank you for your reply.

In view of your reply above, I hereby rest my case

by ultimaThule 02.04.14 10:36

In which case, as counsel for the defence of omens, portents, and numerology, I ask for an adjournment until 12 May in order that my clients may produce further evidence of their intent in this matter. smilie

The signs are apparent, Tony, but it's a question of how they're interpreted and, while some may see cause for pessimism, I remain optimistic that the desired outcome will be forthcoming in the near future. It may seem to be taking an inordinate amount of time but the mills have always operated on a slow but exceedingly fine setting.

by **Tony Bennett** 02.04.14 11:17

ultimaThule wrote:In which case, as counsel for the defence of omens, portents, and numerology, I ask for an adjournment until 12 May in order that my clients may produce further evidence of their intent in this matter....It may seem to be taking an inordinate amount of time but the mills have always operated on a slow but exceedingly fine setting.

I require strict proof of the mills grinding slowly, but on an allegdely 'exceedingly fine setting'.

Quite frankly, it sounds about as credible as the claim by Mr Kipling that he manufactures 'exceedingly fine cakes'.

In any event, can you demonstrate that the mills are grinding forwards? - as the mill-owner has stated on the record that he has 'drawn everything back to zero'. Maybe he is 'grinding up' the evidence? After all, the Met has 'form' for shredding...

Your request for an adjournment until 12 May 2014 is granted, albeit with great reluctance - but just in case the European Court of Human Rights might think I am being unfair.

Three years and £8 million is long enough for Operation Grange to prove where it is going.

No adjournments beyond 12 May 2014 will be granted.

by Liz Eagles 02.04.14 11:29

ultimaThule wrote:In which case, as counsel for the defence of omens, portents, and numerology, I ask for an adjournment until 12 May in order that my clients may produce further evidence of their intent in this matter.

The signs are apparent, Tony, but it's a question of how they're interpreted and, while some may see cause for pessimism, I remain optimistic that the desired outcome will be forthcoming in the near future. It may seem to be taking an inordinate amount of time but the mills have always operated on a slow but exceedingly fine setting.

I have noticed ultimaThule that you seem to like speaking of GM as the 'wee one' and denegrating him at every point possible, 'his ginger hair', his 'glaswegian accent' his 'being a short person' blah blah.

Tell me how this helps and please tell me how this gives any dignity to this forum which is full of research. I only subscribe to this forum. I read the others from time to time.

Please also tell me and this forum (I beg you) how you can state so many things about law without actually saying you know things for a fact.

Now if anyone on the forum thinks I'm being arsy I couldn't care less. I don't like the tone set at the moment whereby things have turned into what Gerry and Kate look like, whether what has been said puts you off a choccie hobnob etc.

There is so much research on here and it's being turned into gossip imo.

by HelenMeg 02.04.14 11:37

aquila wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:In which case, as counsel for the defence of omens, portents, and numerology, I ask for an adjournment until 12 May in order that my clients may produce further evidence of their intent in this matter.

The signs are apparent, Tony, but it's a question of how they're interpreted and, while some may see cause for pessimism, I remain optimistic that the desired outcome will be forthcoming in the near future. It may seem to be taking an inordinate amount of time but the mills have always operated on a slow but exceedingly fine setting.
I have noticed ultimaThule that you seem to like speaking of GM as the 'wee one' and denegrating him at every point possible, 'his ginger hair', his 'glaswegian accent' his 'being a short person' blah blah.

Tell me how this helps and please tell me how this gives any dignity to this forum which is full of research. I only subscribe to this forum. I read the others from time to time.

Please also tell me and this forum (I beg you) how you can state so many things about law without actually saying you know things for a fact.

Now if anyone on the forum thinks I'm being arsy I couldn't care less. I don't like the tone set at the moment whereby things have turned into what Gerry and Kate look like, whether what has been said puts you off a choccie hobnob etc.

There is so much research on here and it's being turned into gossip imo.

I think most of us are a little bit guilty of this type of thing... but I understand where you're coming from. I guess a little humour just sometimes helps ease the intense frustration. However, it can distract from the great research and ideas..

by Garrincha 02.04.14 11:55

Aquila said: I don't like the tone set at the moment whereby things have turned into what Gerry and Kate look like, whether what has been said puts you off a choccie hobnob etc. There is so much research on here and it's being turned into gossip imo.

I second the above

by Liz Eagles 02.04.14 12:51

Garrincha wrote:Aquila said: I don't like the tone set at the moment whereby things have turned into what Gerry and Kate look like, whether what has been said puts you off a choccie hobnob etc. There is so much research on here and it's being turned into gossip imo.

I second the above

UltimaThule has given an opinion on the IQ of Gerry McCann.

Can someone tell me what that has to do with the facts (the presented/disclosed facts to date) regarding the disappearance of Madeleine?

by Guest 02.04.14 13:00

HelenMeg wrote:
I think most of us are a little bit guilty of this type of thing... but I understand where you're coming from. I guess a little humour just sometimes helps ease the intense frustration. However, it can distract from the great research and ideas..

That sums it up for me too.

I probably have been guilty of making personal remarks in the past but, unless they are really relevant, I won't do so again.

by **tigger** 02.04.14 13:01

aquila wrote:
Garrincha wrote:Aquila said: I don't like the tone set at the moment whereby things have turned into what Gerry and Kate look like, whether what has been said puts you off a choccie hobnob etc. There is so much research on here and it's being turned into gossip imo.

I second the above
UltimaThule has given an opinion on the IQ of Gerry McCann.

Can someone tell me what that has to do with the facts (the presented/disclosed facts to date) regarding the disappearance of Madeleine?

Yes, if he'd been a more intelligent person, he would not have set the idiotic script for the evening of the 3rd in motion. He'd have done something sensible. In the case of an accident, he'd have contacted his obviously powerful allies to help him cover it up and save his career. Without any publicity and no money from the public of course.

He was outstandingly stupid to think the PJ would swallow his story. He was outstandingly stupid to keep changing his statements.

In short if he'd been an intelligent person wishing to save his career, we would never have heard a thing about Maddie having an accident. It would have been neatly arranged, she'd be buried in the UK with due ceremony and he would have continued his career in medicine.

by Guest 02.04.14 13:23

ultimaThule wrote:In which case, as counsel for the defence of omens, portents, and numerology, I ask for an adjournment until 12 May in order that my clients may produce further evidence of their intent in this matter.

The signs are apparent, Tony, but it's a question of how they're interpreted and, while some may see cause for pessimism, I remain optimistic that the desired outcome will be forthcoming in the near future. It may seem to be taking an inordinate amount of time but the mills have always operated on a slow but exceedingly fine setting.

I'm intrigued, ulti. Can you expand on what might happen on 12th May? It's MBM's birthday and seven years since she disappeared - perhaps a connection.

by j.rob 02.04.14 15:26

Personally, I think Kate and Gerry are open season. You reap what you sow. Gerry's IQ is a perfectly reasonable topic of debate. Of considerably more relevance to the disappearance of Madeleine than Romany gypsies, pimple men, Tanner men and so so.

I would actually suggest that an intense scrutiny of the McCann's characters, personalities, backgrounds and much else besides would probably throw considerable light on this case. The type of scrutiny they would be subjected to in a court of law where some Rottweiler of a prosecution lawyer is digging up the dirt from their pasts.

by kimHager 02.04.14 15:57

I really try not to attack the mccanns except to ask the obvious questions.. If they are evading answering questions and continually lie.. One might say they are shady, lying people but thAt is an opinion of their character and has not to do with looks or anything. I think it's important to scrutinize their facial expression and actions by which countless guilty people have been picked out from society and brought to justice. I guess im saying its important to watch the important things in the McCanns because we honestly have so many more questions than facts about Maddy and finding out what happened abseil did it is what we are or should be concerned with. I don't care if Gerry wears a clown wig and fuzzy slippers then he just makes a spectical of himself.... But that shouldn't matter unless it pertains to what happened to maddy

by ultimaThule 02.04.14 19:08

aquila wrote:
Garrincha wrote:Aquila said: I don't like the tone set at the moment whereby things have turned into what Gerry and Kate look like, whether what has been said puts you off a choccie hobnob etc. There is so much research on here and it's being turned into gossip imo.

I second the above
UltimaThule has given an opinion on the IQ of Gerry McCann.

Can someone tell me what that has to do with the facts (the presented/disclosed facts to date) regarding the disappearance of Madeleine?

Is there any particular reason why you have chosen to quote another member's response to your opinion instead of quoting my opinion of Gerry McCann's IQ, aquila?

I could choose to enlighten you as to what this has to do with the comparatively few indisputable facts regarding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann which are in the public domain but, given the time I have already expended in endeavouring to further your education on this thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which fact you have failed to acknowledge, I see little point in doing so,

by Guest 03.04.14 8:48

Garrincha wrote:Aquila said: I don't like the tone set at the moment whereby things have turned into what Gerry and Kate look like, whether what has been said puts you off a choccie hobnob etc. There is so much research on here and it's being turned into gossip imo.

I second the above

Just to set the record straight, I made the hobnob comment.

At that point the thread was discussing Kate's claim that Gerry is a "ladies man" and several forum ladies were giving their valid, albeit humorous and childish, reactions to that claim.

As has already been said, a lot of us use humour as a defence mechanism - just look at the Please help Luz thread and I would have thought that there is enough room on the forum for both serious research and more lighthearted gossipy threads.

If you found my hobnob comment offensive, I apologise and if you ever think that something I've posted is detrimental to the forum please ask a mod to delete it.

by Watching 04.04.14 16:06

aquila wrote:
Garrincha wrote:Aquila said: I don't like the tone set at the moment whereby things have turned into what Gerry and Kate look like, whether what has been said puts you off a choccie hobnob etc. There is so much research on here and it's being turned into gossip imo.

I second the above
UltimaThule has given an opinion on the IQ of Gerry McCann.

Can someone tell me what that has to do with the facts (the presented/disclosed facts to date) regarding the disappearance of Madeleine?

There are few facts presented or disclosed in this case. What is a fact however is that Mr & Mrs - Mr particularly so, believes that he is the brightest pebble on the beach, and that he has fooled, you me and the rest of the people. He believes he has been able to do so as he has greater IQ if you like, than you me and the rest of the people. He believes he is a cut above you me and the rest of the people. He believes he can outsmart you, me and the rest of the people, be that to con the public out of money for his Fund, dupe us into believing Madeleine was abducted. This guy believes he is the big 'I am.' I wouldn't worry about UT referring to him as 'wee man' as that is what he is, he just doesn't know it! From Glasgow Gorbals to Rothley he now thinks he is Royalty! It's embarrassing cringe worthy! The guy is deluded. Never forget this guy thinks of you, me and the rest of the people as the 'little people' people he can tramp on. You cannot discuss this case, these people without their characters coming into play without exploring this avenue. It is Mr's character, disposition, personality, intellect, morals (or lack of) which are distinctive to him, his make-up which gives us an insight into this guy what matters to him - and from that we can see, that HE matters to him. All of this, his IQ, all very relevant to the child's disappearance, to what makes him tick. This is the guy who should have been protecting Maddie. So yes, his IQ amongst a whole lot more is relevant. A Court would be interested in whether he was a dummy who didn't know what he was doing, not responsible, or whether he was a smart guy, being a smart arse trying to deceive others! As for a few light hearted remarks about Mr's appearance, what a dull forum this would be if you are not allowed to lighten the mood at times, be less serious. And be honest, the guy is the biggest turn off alive! Any right minded female would give him a body swerve. He was punching above his weight pulling Kate, but then there was a sting in the tail for him, she's doolally. He's type who shouldn't be permitted on streets without a paper bag over his head and a second one in case that one blows off! A few days being waxed would do him no harm either, that ugly sickening furry fungus creeping out neckline t.shirts - cavemen looked more groomed - but rumour has it not a beautician in the land brave enough to go where no self-respecting female has gone before!

Aquila - lighten up a little & please don't go starting a 'Mr' Fan Club we might think you have your sights set on the wee man!

Don't forget Maddie, what her Mr Smart Arse of a father did to her then and now. He acted as he did because he thought he was so much smarter than everyone else, that he'd get away with it.

The fact is - he isn't!

by whatliesbehindthesofa 04.04.14 17:09

I'm not at all interested in discussing people's IQs (or lack thereof). Have we got any MENSA members here?*

*(Hint: yes, we have).

by Guest 04.04.14 17:15

by j.rob 04.04.14 17:25

Agree with Watching. As some others have noted, it is interesting that Gerry pursed Kate to New Zealand - reckon he knew that she would be the 'compliant' wife that he wanted, imo.

. I think it's fair game to dissect the McCanns - they have hardly been backward in coming forward about people they dislike or who aren't taken in by them. Kate, in particular, makes constant references to people's appearances, class and other personal characteristics in her book.

The McCanns and the Tapas group very early on made incredibly derogatory comments about the Portuguese police. Yet not one of the party actually bothered to call the police themselves. Given that several eye witnesses reported that they heard commotion that a child was missing as early as 9.15pm on Thursday evening, how come that the first call from the Ocean Club reception to the local police is logged as being at 22.41?

That's a massive delay. Which the McCann group always tried to spin onto Portugese 'incompetence'.

Given that the parents were claiming an abduction took place, you would assume they would want police on the scene as soon as possible, would you not? Gerry's mobile, so attached to his ear AFTER the first few golden hours, was remarkably unattached to his ear when it came to alerting the police of her daughter's alleged abduction.

In fact, as Kate describes in her book, at 10.35, Gerry asks Matt to go to reception and 'find out what's happening' like some kind of carrier pigeon in the days before the invention of the telephone.

Kate, in her book, recalls how, when the two policemen arrived from Lagos at 11.10pm: "I couldn't shake the images of Tweedledum and Tweedledee" out of my head. Hmmm - strange images to have in your head when you believe your child has been abducted.

She disingenuously goes on to explain how, at that stage: "we weren't familiar with the various tiers of the police system. As far as we were concerned, they were simply 'the police.'

Seeing as everything in Kate's book is laden with clues as to what happened. I would suggest that Kate and Gerry had already done quite a bit of home-work on the 'various tiers' of the Portuguese police system.

The 'sardine munching', Tweedledum and Tweedledee police were a vital part of the McScript. As Kate writes in her book when they first went to the police station the next day: "I was appalled by the treatment we received at the police station that day. Officers walked past as if we weren't there. Nobody asked how we were doing, whether we were OK or needed anything to eat or drink or use the bathroom. Our child had been stolen and I felt as if I didn't exist."

I'm surprised the pair of them didn't fly into a narcissistic rage! Having elevated themselves to Grieving Parents of an Abducted Child, they are not getting the response that they want from the Portuguese police. No red carpet is laid out, no glass of Cava and canape is offered. No tea and sympathy and cup-cakes and shoulder to cry on.

Their narcissism is breathtaking.

In order to get noticed, they arrange for the 'disappearance' of their daughter, imo. With Madeleine 'gone' they can assume Celebrity Status and jet off around the world.

Astonishing.

by Garrincha 04.04.14 17:36

Hello JRob - I agree with what you say about the derogatory approach of TM to all & sundry, and that is precisely why I believe it would better for the credibility of this forum for posters here to resist the urge to descend to the same level.

by Guest 04.04.14 17:40

Garrincha wrote:Hello JRob - I agree with what you say about the derogatory approach of TM to all & sundry, and that is precisely why I believe it would better for the credibility of this forum for posters here to resist the urge to descend to the same level.

I tend to agree with Garrincha re this. Personal comments and sneering remarks are imo not necessary.

by mysterion 04.04.14 17:52

It can also cause enormous offence to Glaswegians, of short stature, who believe they are not very bright. Not an intelligent way to attract new members to this forum.

by plebgate 04.04.14 18:02

I might call him the wee man because many, many believe he takes the PISS. titter

by Lance De Boils 04.04.14 18:09

Well I am certainly no George Clooney, so I wouldn't have the gall to make personal remarks about others' appearance in terms of their 'physical attractiveness' (or lack of). It's in the eye of the beholder, after all.

However, personalities, behaviour, words, attitudes, actions and facial expressions, are a different matter. They come from within. And that's from where real beauty (or ugliness) emanates.

by Garrincha 04.04.14 18:18

I hope I don’t sound too po-faced about all of this. IMO a sense of humour is VITAL to mental health and I have laughed out loud at many of these type of posts (esp. those from Peter Mac). So this is just a suggestion: could we maybe have a general “funny” thread where these posts could be enjoyed, and keep the serious stuff separate (& on track)?

by **tigger** 04.04.14 18:35

Garrincha wrote:I hope I don’t sound too po-faced about all of this. IMO a sense of humour is VITAL to mental health and I have laughed out loud at many of these type of posts (esp. those from Peter Mac). So this is just a suggestion: could we maybe have a general “funny” thread where these posts could be enjoyed, and keep the serious stuff separate (& on track)?

If you go back to posts a fewyears old you will see that there is more or less the same mix of 'gallows' humour and serious research.
Nothing has changed except - my opinion entirely - some members here now find it offensive and berate the fellow members in public.
Having a special corner where we're allowed to be 'naughty' smacks a little too much of kindergarten. As long as the posts aren't derogatory to members or litigeous under British law I can't see a problem.

This is a very serious subject, with wide-ranging research from many members. if jokes are going to be censored we might as well give up. People in unpleasant jobs do the same thing. it's an escape valve.
You don't have to find them funny, it's not mandatory. Ifyou don't like the remarks, ignore them.

Your last few posts seem to be about the tone of the forum being lowered in your opinion, so do have a look a few years back and you might find much the same tone.

Otherwise we might as well be mumsnet.

by Cristobell 04.04.14 18:43

j.rob wrote:Personally, I think Kate and Gerry are open season. You reap what you sow. Gerry's IQ is a perfectly reasonable topic of debate. Of considerably more relevance to the disappearance of Madeleine than Romany gypsies, pimple men, Tanner men and so so.

I would actually suggest that an intense scrutiny of the McCann's characters, personalities, backgrounds and much else besides would probably throw considerable light on this case. The type of scrutiny they would be subjected to in a court of law where some Rottweiler of a prosecution lawyer is digging up the dirt from their pasts.

I am with you on this Rob, I think much will be revealed about the characters of the McCanns, and indeed several members of their family, when it all comes to trial. Psychopaths,narcissists etc, don't become that way overnight, whatever Kate and Gerry are now, they were the same before Madeleine disappeared. In the days before Madeleine disappeared, they were putting the kids in the creche mornings and afternoons and Kate was whingeing about being ignored by Gerry. And of course, who can forget Gerry's words as they arrived in PDL 'f*** off, I'm not here to enjoy myself'. Just the words a wife wants to hear while surrounded by her closest friends.

Kate's book exhibit 'KH1' tells us very little about their lives, and the little it does tell us, sounds false. The incident with Madeleine and her Early Learning crash trolley is just bizarre. As the relative has a heart attack, the cardiologist goes to make the telephone call whilst his heavily pregnant wife is left to deal with the patient. They really are clueless in an emergency. The book is phoney and the characters are phoney, and the people who know the McCanns have kept quiet. Interesting times ahead methinks.

by Guest 04.04.14 19:03

Phoney is one of the words IMO too.
As has been said before, this case will be a subject of being filleted for a long time to come, by psychiatrists, psychologists, criminologists, you name it ...

by Garrincha 04.04.14 19:17

Thanks for your reply Tigger

As you’ve checked out my posts I hope you’ll agree that I have not berated anyone nor did I say I found any of the posts offensive.

I understand gallows humour as a survival mechanism alright from my own work with frontline people (firefighters especially) but as far as I am aware none of us here are on this frontline in that way

I really don’t want to sidetrack things or stir anything up so I think it’s best if I just sign off from this discussion

by **tigger** 04.04.14 19:32

Garrincha wrote:Thanks for your reply Tigger

As you’ve checked out my posts I hope you’ll agree that I have not berated anyone nor did I say I found any of the posts offensive.

I understand gallows humour as a survival mechanism alright from my own work with frontline people (firefighters especially) but as far as I am aware none of us here are on this frontline in that way

I really don’t want to sidetrack things or stir anything up so I think it’s best if I just sign off from this discussion

No, I definitely didn't mean you - You're entitled to your opinion, I just gave mine on the naughty kiddies corner and referred to the way the forum was years ago.
No hard feelings, we agree to differ.