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Further Analysis of the Last Photo

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by joyce1938 on 03.10.11 11:42

I still wonder how many eggs were taken fro said mother,and how many got to be fertilzedand did anyone elseuse them and do we have kids that look like sisters,2 of tapas girls i believe were born 1 month apart? i wonder if its all a bit more simple than we are making it? one day maybe we will get to know.joyce1938
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Guest on 03.10.11 12:07

@joyce1938 wrote:I still wonder how many eggs were taken fro said mother,and how many got to be fertilzedand did anyone elseuse them and do we have kids that look like sisters,2 of tapas girls i believe were born 1 month apart? i wonder if its all a bit more simple than we are making it? one day maybe we will get to know.joyce1938

In her book I think it was 9 or 12 eggs, then they inserted 3 of them that failed, the second time they inserted 2 or 3 and thats when Madeleine was made. So there was egg left, cant remember in the moment the exact number. It is posted earlier under some topic at this site, dont remember where at the moment :)

EDIT Found it :)


In her book it says: On the FIRST attempt on IVF (who failed according the book) " We had thirteen fertilized eggs. We decided to have some of them frozen and to have two blastocysts implanted." Then she writes a few sentence later " Two months later we were ready for a second shot, using two of the embryos we'd had frozen." ( and that second attempt produced Madeleine)
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by 1soapy on 09.05.14 19:49

I notice a lot of quite technical discussion about the last (poolside) pic spanning numerous threads.

Sorry if this has been raised and missed by me. Has anyone been there since 2007 and attempted to duplicate the pool edge seating and the sunglasses reflection at varying times/conditions or has something become an obstacle to this?

I mention this because there seems to be a way of establishing the legitimacy of this, whilst there are a lot of strange pictures of MBM/KM, and I agree that there are some very odd ones which seem photo-shopped for whatever reason (not to mention other oddities like some pics not being made available to police at the start and going to other people's/police houses in the UK), though looking through a family album recently, I found that if I went looking for strange phenomenon, I could find it quite often (like seeing shadows turn more into shapes at night in bed as you get more afraid or look into them). A foot seems to be backwards, where is her hand? He isn’t really that fat in real life. UFO/ghost/bigfoot pics are a similar example which, ‘often’ (I’m being generous here) turn out to have a very natural explanation.

If a case is brought to court against anyone, then as each and as many of the many threads of the case are brought together and solved or seen as implausible, the better it (the case) would present itself as a whole, especially if they are shown to be linked to a motive. I would imagine that cases have been presented and won, without crucial proof, where the multitude of inexplicable evidence/threads point, 'beyond reasonable doubt', to a verdict.

Adding any additional solutions to oddities (like photoshopping, wrong date of photo taken, lies etc.) to what the MET/PJ already have would add weight if the verdict is not a clear, 'guilty' in the eyes of the CPS/Portuguese equivalent.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by 1soapy on 09.05.14 19:54

Just to add that I am aware of lots of stuff having been sent to the MET already. I'm referring to sending additional, less significant, solved or highly odd anomalies (ones often discussed on their threads here) that link to the motive/case which, in the light of a charge, would be useful now. It wouldn't hurt to send stuff again (or in the light of a specific charge) which they might have more time to look at. I'm sure they haven't followed every thread and thought here.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by worriedmum on 09.05.14 22:19

This is reported as being taken before the pool photo. You can probably see the 'sunburn' on Madeleine's arm. Compare this arm with the one nearest the camera on the Last Photo.  Aaah, you may say, but that is her left arm, and this picture shows her right arm.   But does it? I have seen this image facing the other way. Could this be a flipped image? The thing that made me wonder is that there is a small brown mark on the calf  nearest  the camera.
DISTINGUISHING MARKS AND CHARACTERISTICS:
LEFT EYE: Blue and Green colour
RIGHT EYE: Green colour with a Brown spot in Retina,
LEFT LEG: Small brown mark on Left Leg Calf



Can anyone distinguish the type of tennis ball?The writing would confirm whether the image has been flipped.
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by worriedmum on 09.05.14 22:21

This is clearer
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Guest on 09.05.14 22:31

Looks a bit like bruising to me than sunburn. The sort of marks left if someone was holding / pinning you down.

Didnt KM have similar marks on her wrists... Oh yes when you lash out in anger you hit things with your wrists dont you Kate.
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by 1soapy on 09.05.14 22:39

Interesting observation by worried mum.

Has the 'I've been wearing gloves and bare arms in the sun' remark been discussed?

She's holding the balls right handed in the picture, (try imagining or actually picking up half a dozen balls and bringing them to your chest for support) but people can always break the rules I suppose.

Trying to work out if there are any others. The double skid marks would be the other sign of a possible reverse image if another shot of the tennis courts with that mark can be found - if indeed this is the Ocean club.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Watching on 09.05.14 22:58

What strikes me most in all of Maddie's pictures/video clips is that she appears to be a happy bubbly lively normal little girl.

There is one which I found a little sad she looks quite young, and Mr asks her if she thinks Amelie likes chocolate or sweets or something (twins look around 8 months perhaps) and she replied 'uh huh' a positive response, and Mr tells her to say 'yes daddy.' Just seemed a bit harsh to demand this of her. Was it the 'uh huh' he didn't like or that she did not add 'daddy' giving him, perhaps in his mind - respect.  She's just so little in this video clip.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Okeydokey on 10.05.14 2:37

@1soapy wrote:Interesting observation by worried mum.

Has the 'I've been wearing gloves and bare arms in the sun' remark been discussed?

She's holding the balls right handed in the picture, (try imagining or actually picking up half a dozen balls and bringing them to your chest for support) but people can always break the rules I suppose.

Trying to work out if there are any others. The double skid marks would be the other sign of a possible reverse image if another shot of the tennis courts with that mark can be found - if indeed this is the Ocean club.

It's wrong to build too much on small bits of information I would say. 

Let's assume the tanning effects have been described accurately...toddlers often doggie paddle when they swim. That would cause a big discrepancy between hands and upper arms in terms of exposure to sun if they spent a lot of time in the pool.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Guest on 10.05.14 8:48

Her left leg is dodgy, where's the knee?
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by canada12 on 10.05.14 9:31

Ladyinred wrote:Her left leg is dodgy, where's the knee?

There is no knee. It's one of the red flags that a very long time ago indicated to me that this picture is a composite of elements. Head. Hat. Body. Arms. Legs. Feet. Tennis balls. Hands.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by russiandoll on 10.05.14 9:36

Okeydokey "
Let's assume the tanning effects have been described accurately...toddlers often doggie paddle when they swim. That would cause a big discrepancy between hands and upper arms in terms of exposure to sun if they spent a lot of time in the pool. "

  Bot Okey, this was a 3 year old and a very fair 3 year old at that...as a daughter of doctors I would be amazed to find that she was not wearing a waterproof factor 50+  [ you can now get 70 not sure if you could in 07 ].

 I am not a doctor, but I know from public awareness on t v and other media that young children should not tan at all...it is skin damage and does not bode well for later life.
 I have seen Maddie in a sun protection body suit on a beach, evidence that care was taken with her skin in the sun. The Mcs are scientists.... they surely did not believe, that at this latitude , close to north Africa, cloudy weather meant a person could not burn?

It goes without saying that I include the twins in the sun care issue.

 I have never been able to come up with any explanation for this difference on colour of the hand and arm, it is always this neat straight line at the wrist which puzzles me , along with the extreme difference in skin colour.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Gillyspot on 10.05.14 10:28


This photo was purported to be from PDL but she is far too young on it. I can see a mark on her left calf (inside) - would this be the distinguishing mark?

Also I guess that this pic was from the holiday with the Paynes which makes his comments about her all the more sickening IMO.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Guest on 10.05.14 10:32

She's looking quite bloated in this photo.
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Guest on 10.05.14 10:38

This has been discussed before. It's clearly an earlier photo when she still had a bit of baby podge.

These are the only photos claimed to have been taken at PDL.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MCCANN_HOLIDAY.htm
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by tigger on 10.05.14 10:55

@1soapy wrote:Interesting observation by worried mum.

Has the 'I've been wearing gloves and bare arms in the sun' remark been discussed?

She's holding the balls right handed in the picture, (try imagining or actually picking up half a dozen balls and bringing them to your chest for support) but people can always break the rules I suppose.

Trying to work out if there are any others. The double skid marks would be the other sign of a possible reverse image if another shot of the tennis courts with that mark can be found - if indeed this is the Ocean club.

If you look at the kitchen photo you'll see that her left hand in that looks very 'knuckled' , her arm changes colour at the elbow there. Not the only weird thing inthe photo.
Here too her left hand has adult looking knuckles. However, the tennisphoto isalmost always given as looking right. She should be facing left, as it appeared in one of the Dutch papers early on. Then the brown mark on her  left leg is where it should be.
That mark is the only distinguishing feature mentioned in the early PJ description. Iirc.
Imo the eye/coloboma would certainly have been in the passport since, like the small mark on her leg, it would have been present from birth.

It would be a great idea if  we could find two women and a child of 4 to pose and be photographed  exactly like the kitchen photo. My feeling is tha Kate's right elbow  had nowhere to go, she would be partlyreflected in the worktop andI don't think she's left handed.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by 1soapy on 10.05.14 11:06

Will check out the kitchen pic Tigger. It's a dillema to know how far to look into these picture anomolies. They are secondary to the primary case, but if several photos are shown, beyond reasonable doubt to have been manipulated without just cause, it will clearly add weight to a legal case. A police team would not have time, but thanks to forums like this and the free time and skills offered by folk, such luxuries are possible. Hopefully this forum will be acknowledged by authority as contributing to the truth and set a precedent for future cases that such public forums can be of great use.

Hi Okeydokey.

Not sure I understand how I am reading too much into the pic.

Worriedmum made an interesting point (with a valid reason for her thoughts), to enquire as to whether the picture may be inverted. She then used the limited number of possible things in the picture in the absence of buildings etc. (namely the wording on the tennis balls) to ask if the lettering could be inverted on closer examination to ascertain if her idea of inverted image could be correct. I think the reason she was following this lead was to suggest how cloning parts of body in other pictures could have made up a false image. The mark on her right leg in this pic (if on the left leg in others) would show inversion.

I then made 2 other observations. The left handed/right handed way of picking up and holding things would be a notable error in an inverted image (though I conceded that this rule could be broken, but my children are consistent in this when they pick things up like this) and the skid marks is the other obvious pointer in an inverted image. Couldn't see anything more (without scraping the barrel or being overly picky, like the way her feet point or her mouth or head goes up or to one side) than the mark on her leg that could be a good indication of an inverted image in the absence of other features because the picture (interestingly) only shows the tennis court.

If these (what you may think as trivial) matters are shown to be manipulations, (along with perhaps other images) then it certainly adds greater suspicion, if such a thing were possible, to what is already presented in sites like this.

Regarding the colour difference between her right arm and hand which seems to have a very manufactured straight line differentiating them, (that was what I meant by the glove point), it almost looks like a Frankenstein cut and paste job with the inability or lack of patience to colour change the hand/fingers. I think that this observation was perhaps the inspiration for worriedmums comments. I notice that Russian Doll also concurs with this strange anomaly and points out the weakness in your point about swimming, though I do take your point that we should think outside the box and look for alternatives possibilities - a point I have made myself recently.

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Doug D on 10.05.14 11:29

I'm sure its been looked at before, but iirc all the kids were given 'identity bracelets' when they registered for the creche.

Were these the permanent type to last a few days until they were cut off? Was there a 'preferred' wrist?

Could one of these account for the straight line on the wrist where the sun had been shaded?

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by worriedmum on 10.05.14 12:05

@1soapy wrote:

Worriedmum made an interesting point (with a valid reason for her thoughts), to enquire as to whether the picture may be inverted. She then used the limited number of possible things in the picture in the absence of buildings etc. (namely the wording on the tennis balls) to ask if the lettering could be inverted on closer examination to ascertain if her idea of inverted image could be correct. I think the reason she was following this lead was to suggest how cloning parts of body in other pictures could have made up a false image. The mark on her right leg in this pic (if on the left leg in others) would show inversion.

1soapy, thank you for your detailed points. The OT , 'the Last Photo',is the reason I raised these questions,not 'cloning of other pictures'. The point is, if the arm we are seeing in the tennis photo is actually the arm we are seeing on the last photo, then there appears to be an anomaly. The tennis photo shows an arm with marks on it. The pool photo, taken AFTER it , doesn't. I have seen the tennis photo reproduced facing the other way-which is correct?
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Versailles on 07.07.14 18:35

@worriedmum wrote:This is clearer
This photo makes me feel so uneasy. This is not a happy child, nor a healthy one imo. She has a bald patch on the right side of her forehead, her hands are discoloured, her smile is forced and as always she looks unkempt.
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by NickE on 07.07.14 22:06

@Versailles wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:This is clearer
This photo makes me feel so uneasy. This is not a happy child, nor a healthy one imo. She has a bald patch on the right side of her forehead, her hands are discoloured, her smile is forced and as always she looks unkempt.

 agreed 
Until I see her medical records.
I think she was suffering from an illness, perhaps a life-threatening and was suffering from pain. 
The parents "helped" her get free from the pain and "move on to the other side". 
Everything was planned and their doctor friends were understanding about their decision.
They used this "help to die" to stage a kidnapping. 
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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by HelenMeg on 07.07.14 22:22

I respect your opinions  but all I see is a happy little 3 - 4 year old gathering tennis balls. I actually think she looks normal and happy in this. Just a different interpretation

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by Shibboleth on 07.07.14 23:23

The pool photo is false.  The item that has been added, is the pair of sunshades on Gerry!  There is another picture of Gerry with the sunshades, he is not wearing them, but has them hanging from the neck of his t-shirt.  The pool is reflected in the sunshades, horizontally

Some-one has then copied the sunshades from the t-shirt picture and put them on his face, in the pool picture.  That is why the reflections are wrong.  Also, look at the ears, the sunshades do not sit on the ears, they are too high.

Why should Gerry need to photo-shop sunshades on to his face, that is the question to ask.  Why must no-one see his eyes?  I suspect that he has a bruised eye, if this is the case, then who did this?

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Re: Further Analysis of the Last Photo

Post by worriedmum on 08.07.14 8:59

@Okeydokey wrote:
@1soapy wrote:Interesting observation by worried mum.

Has the 'I've been wearing gloves and bare arms in the sun' remark been discussed?

She's holding the balls right handed in the picture, (try imagining or actually picking up half a dozen balls and bringing them to your chest for support) but people can always break the rules I suppose.

Trying to work out if there are any others. The double skid marks would be the other sign of a possible reverse image if another shot of the tennis courts with that mark can be found - if indeed this is the Ocean club.

It's wrong to build too much on small bits of information I would say. 

Let's assume the tanning effects have been described accurately...toddlers often doggie paddle when they swim. That would cause a big discrepancy between hands and upper arms in terms of exposure to sun if they spent a lot of time in the pool.


When you swim 'doggie paddle', surely your hands are out of the water more than your arms which are submerged? So while your shoulders might get burned, your arms wouldn't, but your hands might?
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