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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 Empty Re: McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

Post by Jill Havern on 03.01.19 11:31

This transcript is already on another thread:

It is from an official CNN thread.

I'm bringing this over on a new thread because of certain parts of the transcript (I've bolded them) which have relevance to the BBC's announcement of its Crimewatch Special programme.

I've also bolded any factual errors I've found.

The programme was advertised as: 'Maddy McCann Alive?'



Maddy McCann Alive?

Aired August 27, 2013 - 20:00 ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe there`s a very good chance Madeleine is out there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a real possibility that Madeleine can still be found alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Madeleine McCann was 3 years old when she disappeared from a resort. Now British police say they have new leads and are reopening the investigation. They want to question 38 people across Europe, including 12 British nationals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The authorities in this country are now actively pursuing Madeleine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say this new evidence was a development after combing through more than 30,000 pages of documents related to the case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her parents have worn the grief and anguish on their faces day after day.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Breaking news tonight. A beautiful 3-year-old little girl, baby Maddy, reportedly snatched during a luxury resort vacation. Her parents partied down at a dinner 100 yards away, leaving baby Maddy and twin siblings there in their hotel room alone.

Bombshell tonight. In a stunning turn, Scotland Yard announces baby Maddy McCann may be alive. That`s right, in a stunning turn of events, Scotland Yard doesn`t just investigate the possibility that she may be alive, they make a formal announcement this child is very likely still alive this many years later, this after her parents had come under suspicion, many others had come under -- falsely under suspicion. Maddy McCann alive?

Tonight, across the ocean, joining us, Jerry Lawton, senior true crime correspondent with "The Daily Star." Jerry, this is an incredible turn of events, especially with Scotland Yard, they keep everything so close to the vest, to make a public and formal announcement that baby Maddy McCann is very likely alive. Not only that, that a special cop squad has been set up to find her and run down 39 active leads in the case, Jerry.

JERRY LAWTON, "DAILY STAR," (via telephone): Incredible, Nancy. I mean, it`s an astonishing development on the story, six years on since Madeleine actually disappeared.

We were summoned to a police briefing. As you say, Scotland Yard normally play their cards very close to the chest, particularly on something like this. It was quite exceptional circumstances.

And yes, at that briefing, the officer who has been appointed in charge of a 37-strong team of UK detectives now actively hunting Madeleine worldwide made the announcement that he has read all the original case files, he`s read all the files of the seven or eight teams of private detectives that the McCanns hired to try and find their daughter.

They have read everything, and he said on the record there is not one shred of evidence he has seen that suggests Madeleine is dead. Therefore, they are actively assuming that she is still alive. Incredible development.

GRACE: Straight out to Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer." Mike, what do we know?

MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" (via telephone): Well, one of the things the police are basing this idea on is that in 2010, a guy named Wayne Hewlett (ph), who is the son of a pedophile, convicted, named Raymond Hewlett (ph), told a British newspaper that he received an unnerving letter regarding the case from his father, who`d died a week before.

Now, this guy is on his death bed, OK? He has no reason to lie, this pedophile. And he got drunk and he let it out in front of his son that he`d stolen Maddy to order as part of a gang. He said the gang had been operating for a long time. It was based in -- a gypsy gang in Portugal -- had been operating a long time.

And what they did was, they would pinpoint children, send a photo of the kid to couples who couldn`t have children of their own and who subscribed to their, you know, so-called service. And then if the person said, yes, I like this little girl -- and Maddy was a very beautiful little girl -- they would go and kidnap the child. And that`s what this guy said that he did, and the child was taken out the country, across the border into Spain.

GRACE: Out to Matt Zarrell, covering the story with me. Matt Zarrell, there have been a lot of developments, a lot of focus on a tall, thin, scraggly, dark-headed male on the beach the day baby Maddy disappeared, taking photos of children. What do you know, Matt?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes. Files reveal that on May 9th of 2007, officers interviewed the owner of a restaurant on the beach, which is about 20 minutes from where Maddy McCann was staying. And the owner recalled seeing the McCanns with their three children for (ph) the last time at the restaurant. And they revealed that they saw a strange Englishman who was spotted taking pictures of children on the beach visited by Maddy just before she went missing.

And British police were told that Madeleine had been abducted three days after being photographed by a spotter. Now, police have not located this spotter, but it is definitely a theory that they are looking at right now.

GRACE: Not only that, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, -- for those of you just tuning in, a stunning development by Scotland Yard, who comes out and makes a formal announcement they believe baby Maddy McCann may very well be alive.

Years have passed since baby -- baby Maddy goes missing while her parents are at a luxury resort. That evening, they were eating about we thought 100 yards. Now it has been narrowed down to 100 feet away -- about 100 feet away, the McCann apartment, basically across the pool at a tapas restaurant, and an adult would be sent back to the apartment every 30 minutes to check on the children.

Now, isn`t it true, Alexis Tereszcuk, that one of the other parties, one of the other members of the dinner party, went back and they saw a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket, but they didn`t put two and two together?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: You`re exactly right. And this is something that was a distraction, actually -- well, no, it wasn`t a distraction, but the police were only focused on Madeleine`s parents. And so the people with that were with her actually said that they saw someone else carrying this child. This could have been their daughter.

But the police only focused on the parents for years, in fact, and they ignored so many other leads, so that with this new investigation opening, they`re going to look into everything, and this is one of the things that they`re scrutinizing because this could be a huge lead. They just -- they didn`t know at the time. They didn`t realize that what they saw could have been the child that would end up missing. It just wasn`t something that entered their thought process.

But now the police are absolutely focusing on this. And they`re trying really hard to track down every last detail. They are revisiting every single tip, every single lead, and they do feel like they`ve narrowed it down. But the parents and this other couple, none of them are considered suspects. So the 38 people, none of them...

GRACE: But what`s interesting...

TERESZCUK: ... are included in this.

GRACE: What`s interesting about it, Marc Klaas, president, founder, Klaas Kids Foundation, is that evening, they were actually afraid to bring in a hotel baby-sitter because they didn`t want somebody with the children, Maddy and her twin siblings, that they didn`t know. They were afraid that a baby-sitter unknown to them could hurt the children, would ignore the children. So they thought one of them going back every 30 minutes to check on the children would suffice.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Whoops, Nancy. They made a critical mistake there. You should never leave young children unattended. And in fact, in the United States, I believe it`s against -- in California, I know it`s against the law to leave very young children unattended.

GRACE: Out to the defense lawyers. Joining me tonight, Parag Shah, defense attorney, Atlanta. Also with me, veteran lawyer Renee Rockwell.

The parents came under fire when baby Maddy went missing. It turns out that there had been DNA reportedly found in the trunk, their car trunk, that matched baby Maddy. But when it was all said and done, Renee, it turns out that this car was rented 25 days after Maddy went missing.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, a little interesting that they would make such a big deal. Doesn`t it smack of JonBenet Ramsey to you? Aren`t the parents the first suspects and the first ones that need to get excluded?

But in a situation like this, you just got to hit it and move on. Ask Marc Klaas. He manned up. He showed up. He answered all the questions. You hit it, and you move on.

GRACE: Well, Parag Shah, I don`t think that the McCanns, as opposed to other cases -- I do not believe the McCanns are in any way responsible for Maddy`s disappearance. But the reality is, Parag, is that parents have to expect to be a prime suspect because statistically, they are the ones responsible when children go missing or are killed.

In this case, I don`t think that that is true. But you know, that comes with the territory of being a parent. When something happens to your child, you`re the first one the cops look at. That`s just the way it is because statistically, it`s true.

PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, and that`s ridiculous because the way people should be arrested or suspects is with evidence, and these 38 suspects that they have...

GRACE: OK, I don`t know what you just said...

SHAH: I hope they find this girl...


GRACE: ... the way people should be arrested is with evidence? I don`t know if that`s even a sentence.

SHAH: Well, what happens is there`s a rush to judgment and somebody...

GRACE: Parag Shah, I don`t know...


SHAH: ... going to be arrested on this...

GRACE: Nobody`s been arrested, Parag.

SHAH: They have 38 suspects...

GRACE: They were not arrested, Parag. I don`t know what you`re talking about. They were not arrested.

SHAH: They weren`t arrested, but they were highly scrutinized, which there was no basis...

GRACE: Well, then -- OK, why don`t you...

SHAH: ... and just because parents --

GRACE: ... deal with the facts we`re talking about right now? They were not arrested. They were suspected and -- put him back up, please!

SHAH: Unfoundedly!

GRACE: Parag, have you -- Parag, I assume that you`ve tried murder cases, have you not?

SHAH: Yes.

GRACE: OK. Just out of curiosity, it`s neither here nor there, but how many, one?

SHAH: I`ve tried multiple murder cases.

GRACE: OK. So two. That`s good. Parag, the reason -- there is a reason that parents are the first suspects, that husbands are the first suspect when a woman, a wife or a girlfriend goes missing because, statistically -- you know what? Let Marc Klaas...

SHAH: This is different, though!

GRACE: ... tell you...


GRACE: Please cut his mike.

SHAH: ... they had those same 38 suspects...

GRACE: Number one...

SHAH: ... back then, as well.

GRACE: ... it`s 39, and they`re not suspects. They are leads. But Marc, could you please explain to Parag Shah why parents, such as you or me, would come under suspicion first.

KLAAS: Well, because, as you said, the statistics take you there. In the vast majority of cases involving child victims, the parents are the ones involved. Unfortunately, it`s a reality that has to be dealt with.

The McCanns had to deal with it, and they just couldn`t get past the scrutiny of the authorities, and I think that that really tanked the case back six years ago.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Madeleine McCann was 3 years old when she disappeared from a resort.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s important that people know what I saw because, you know, I believe Madeleine was abducted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think we can say 100 percent. I mean, you know, we`re realistic, but what we do know is there`s a very good chance that she is alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they have new leads and are reopening the investigation called Operation Grange.


GRACE: Out to Jerry Lawton, senior true crime correspondent, "Daily Star." Everyone, for those of you just joining us, in a disturbing and surprising about-face, Scotland Yard, police, have now announced that Maddy McCann may very well be alive. The general public had decided that Maddy McCann was dead shortly after her kidnapping. Not true.

To Jerry Lawton, joining us from "The Daily Star." Jerry, what has made them come to this announcement?

LAWTON: Well, Nancy, basically, it`s the hard work of Gerry and Kate McCann, Madeleine`s parents, who since she disappeared and despite, as you touched earlier, the scrutiny upon them, they`ve continued to fight a single (ph) campaign on their own, basically, to get people to continue to look for their daughter.

The Portuguese police archived the original case in 2008 as an unsolved mystery, and the McCanns refused to accept that, hired private detectives, and continued to, basically, fight a campaign to get somebody to look for her. They appealed directly to British prime minister David Cameron, and he listened to them. They had a direct meeting with them. He ordered British police to launch a review of original investigation, which they spent two years and 5 million British pounds doing.

And as a result of looking at those files, they have seen a whole host of unsolved leads that the British police don`t believe have been investigated, traced and eliminated to a standard that they require. And that is the process that they are now embarking upon.

They`ve still only made their way, Nancy, through two thirds of the file. There`s another one third to go. But it`s taken two years to get to that point. So you can imagine the volume of information that they are sifting through. And basically, the British police have said there are too many leads here, there`s too much that has not been done, we need to start over and do it properly.

GRACE: To Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer." What do you know about a taxi driver who has sworn under oath that he picked up Maddy McCann with a woman and three men the night she disappears?

WALKER: Yes. And he said also that he noticed a little -- Maddy had a little black spot in one eye that made her look a little bit distinctive, and he saw all that.

Now, incredibly, Nancy, this cab driver said that he was dying to be interviewed by the police, let everybody know what he had seen, and no one ever interviewed him. And that`s another possible lead here that has surfaced. And then, of course, there was the other one. Did you hear about Posh Spice or a woman...

GRACE: The lookalike? Yes, tell me.

WALKER: She looks like -- what`s her real name? I keep calling her Posh Spice.

GRACE: Victoria Beckham, Posh.

WALKER: Right. And -- Victoria Beckham. And -- and -- remember, I said that the pervert, pedophile, confessed on his death bed that a Portuguese gang -- he had helped kidnap the child for a Portuguese gang. They took her over the border into Spain.

Now, here`s another little connection that they`ve discovered. A woman -- there were reports of a woman who looked like Victoria Beckham in Barcelona, Spain. And three or four days -- four days, I guess it was- yes, May 7th, 2007 -- at a marina acting very agitated And she had possibly an Australian accent, but she spoke fluent Spanish. And she was asking, she was approaching men and saying, Are you here to give me my new daughter?

It was as if she had been told to go there and meet somebody, and she got agitated and wasn`t sure who she was supposed to meet, and she kept asking, Are you here to deliver my new daughter?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New details in a 6-year-old cold case

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police now say they think this little girl, Madeleine McCann, may still be alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say this new evidence was a development after combing through more than 30,000 pages of documents related to the case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we`re hoping that this actually leads to something more promising.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t really want them to have the burden of this, of having to keep looking and looking and looking and not being able to stop, you know? So we need to find her now.


GRACE: Is Maddy McCann alive? A stunning announcement by police that this child may very well be alive. They have called in all that they can, all the manpower, all the feet on the ground. They`ve created what is called a cop squad to find baby Maddy.

Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer," could you repeat the story? Now, this goes back to a cab driver that swears he picked up Maddy McCann with one woman and three men the night after she goes missing. Repeat?

WALKER: Yes, that`s exactly right. And he said that he saw the little black spot in one of Maddy`s eyes. It was very distinctive. And he`s absolutely sure it was her.

Now, again, you know, who knows if it was, but he is very, very sure. And all these years, he has asked and begged for the Barcelona -- the Portuguese police to interview him, and they never have. They closed this case down a year after it started, and that`s been it ever since.

Luckily, as you say, now Scotland Yard has stepped in with the British prime minister behind them and really launching something. And they`ve put together a bunch of leads, the kind of stuff that we are reporters, newspaper reporters, would be after if we had, you know, 5 million pounds to spend.

But this may just do it. And the reason there`s so many people, Nancy, involved is they`re not dealing with 38 separate, you know, suspects. They`re dealing with, obviously, gangs, rings, in other words, where, you know, you might find one ring of kidnappers, and there would be, you know, 15 or 20 people involved.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Patrick in New York. Hi, Patrick. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi Nancy. Love the show. I was just wondering what new evidence they`ve found that suggests that she`s still alive.

GRACE: You know what? Jerry Lawton, I`m going to go to you on that - - Jerry Lawton with "The Daily Star."

LAWTON: Hi, Nancy. Yes, I`m afraid it`s a negative, rather than a positive answer. Basically, we were told by the police who called us in to a press briefing at Scotland Yard that it`s based purely on the fact that they`ve not found one shred of evidence suggesting the opposite, that she is dead.

They have looked at multiple theories (ph), thousands and thousands and thousands of pages of witness reports, documentation. Work has been done by Interpol worldwide following up leads and sightings, and there is no evidence, particularly in the forensic area, to suggest that Madeleine is dead. Therefore, they are -- until they believe otherwise or find otherwise...

GRACE: Right.

LAWTON: ... they will go on the basis that she could well still be alive. Obviously...

GRACE: To Greg Kading, former LAPD...


GRACE: ... author of "Murder Rap" -- Greg, it`s very disturbing to me that all of these people -- there`s a string of them -- were not interviewed by police. How does that happen?

GREG KADING, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: It does happen, unfortunately. And you know, things fall through the cracks. An investigation is only as good as your investigators. And so if you have complacent investigators or incompetent investigators, well, that`s how your investigation is going to end up.

This is very encouraging, however, that there`s this new specialist task force, you know, with specialists involved who will -- who will re- look at everything with fresh eyes. And you have all this compelling corresponding information with a -- you know, with spotter, and you`ve got, you know, somebody saying that they saw the child later. I mean, this is a tremendously encouraging situation for Scotland Yard.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big headline from this is police believe that she may still be alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly no evidence to suggest otherwise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Madeleine McCann -- British police say they have identified more than three dozen people of interest in her disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They identified 38 suspects.


GRACE: The parents of baby Maddie McCann never giving up in the search for baby Maddie. I want to refresh all of your recollections as to the events surrounding her disappearance that night. Out to Mike Walker, National Enquirer. Mike, if you could, please go back through the facts very carefully about the night she disappeared.

WALKER: The night she disappeared, the parents had been, as you said, checking on her. They were having dinner with some people about 300 yards away from -- pardon me, about 100 yards, 300 feet away from the room, and they were sitting around a pool. So they could see the room. They were sending somebody over. One of them would go over every 30 minutes or so to check on the children, and then suddenly of course the disappearance.

Now, what happened immediately, when the disappearance was reported, and the police arrived, the first thing the police didn`t do was secure the crime scene. People were walking all over, all around. As Scotland Yard says, you know, destroying what might have been valuable forensic evidence, or maybe not.

The next thing that happened was the police just decided arbitrarily that because both of these people were doctors, one of them a very respected cardiologist and his wife a very respected general practitioner, doctors, they decided what they were doing probably was drugging the kids so that they would stay asleep and not be a bother, and probably that`s what happened here, and she overdosed the kid and the kid died, and so they got rid of the body. Question, Nancy. Where do you get rid of a body? OK? They tried to say that rented car had DNA evidence traced. It was later proven to be wrong, wrong forensic testing. But you know, what did they do? They secretly kept the baby somewhere under the bed in the rental place where they stayed, under police supervision all those days? No. You can`t hide a body like that. Very hot in Portugal that time of year. Bodies decompose very quickly. So there`s in way that anybody can say there`s any evidence that the child had died.

And even when the Spanish -- Portuguese police brought in corpse sniffing dogs, they said we sniffed your car keys and we had a trace of a dead body. There you are. And as the doctor, as the wife pointed out, she said I handled six dead bodies just days ago, before I came to Portugal for my vacation. That`s what I do. I`m a doctor. And so there`s no evidence that the child died, but there`s a lot of evidence mounting that she may still be alive.

GRACE: And not only that, Mike Walker, police had also said they found baby Maddie`s DNA behind the sofa in that hotel, that resort hotel room. That turned out to be false. The DNA that they claimed was baby Maddie`s DNA in the car, the rental car was not her DNA. And not only that, the rental car had been rented 25 days after she disappeared.

WALKER: And the lead detective in the case, the Portuguese detective was bounced off the case after about five months, God knows why, but he then went on to write a book saying that the McCanns were killers, and he made a half a million dollars from that book.

GRACE: I hope he was sued. Was he?

WALKER: Yes, he was.

GRACE: Was it successful?


GRACE: With me, Mike Walker, senior editor of "National Enquirer." Also with us, Jerry Lawton, true crime correspondent, "Daily Star." What can you tell me, Jerry, about a man in the stairwell spotted by more than one witness in the stairwell near Maddie`s resort room, just 24 hours before she vanished?

JERRY LAWTON, DAILY STAR: This is a girl that`s (ph) wearing sunglasses. This is just one of approximately eight suspicious characters seen in and around the apartment within 48 hours of Madeleine`s disappearance, none of which the police have determined have actually been traced or eliminated from the investigation. Hence why there`s so much excitement. This was a guy who was spotted by (inaudible), virtually a prowler, looking suspicious, wearing sunglasses. No apparent reason for him to be there. The apartment itself is within a block of a holiday compound. He has never been traced. Amazingly, many of the people who actually stay in the neighboring apartments have never still to this day been questioned about Madeleine`s disappearance, and they were in those apartments the night she disappeared.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, Parag Shah joining us. I usually don`t pile on the police, because I firmly believe that for the most part they are doing the best they can under the circumstances at the time of the incident. But in this particular case, I think it was horribly botched. They were at a resort in Portugal. The cops did not treat it as a crime scene. It was not roped off until, I think, the next day. Hotel personnel had been tromping in and out. Tons of people had come in and out. Whatever evidence may have been there was completely destroyed. The little animal that she slept with, cuddle cat, had not been tested for DNA. It was found on the floor. You know, there, the borders of the country are like going from state to state in the U.S. The countries are not huge. You can get to the country`s borders fairly quickly. They didn`t close down the borders. There were tons and tons of police mistakes, Renee.

ROCKWELL: You got to wonder, Nancy, had they been vigilant, would this child still be gone. This is a human trafficking case. You can get $200,000 for a beautiful child like that, and you got to wonder is the child in Australia, is the child in Barcelona. It`s a crying shame.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help from private investigators has made a difference.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a very good chance she`s alive and there`s certainly nothing to suggest otherwise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really it`s important not to give up on Madeleine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This, they are having to keep looking and looking and looking and not being able to stop, you know. So we need to find her now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) she`ll be found. (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are hopeful. Authorities are asking the public to help find this little girl, wherever she may be.


GRACE: Take a look at the shots of Maddie McCann. I still call her baby Maddie. Liz, if you could show me several shots of her. It is her right eye as you`re viewing it, you`ll see it on the left, that has a very peculiar black mark in the middle of the iris. There you go. She`s absolutely a gorgeous child, too. Medical examiner, forensic pathologist and toxicologist, Dr. William Morrone, joining me tonight out of Madison Heights. Now if someone were to find a child that looks like baby Maddie, how quickly can it be determined if it`s really her and what is the process?

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: If the authorities are in a large city and they have a university that`s reasonably equipped, they can identify her in 24 to 48 hours. But if they`re in some third world country or a rural setting, it`s going to take a couple of days. They`ll want to get dental records, want to get a DNA swab, they`ll want to get some medical records, and they will compare it to the DNA standards of the parents, which can be sent over the computer. But doing the DNA analysis on Maddie McCann, the suspected Maddie McCann, is going to take a couple of days and they`ve got to get her to a major city or a university to do that kind of work.

GRACE: What is the mark on her eye? What is that?

MORRONE: There`s pigment in the body that`s put in different places. Like the color around your iris, it`s a specific pigment that`s generic, and black specks have been put in the eye by design to reduce glare and sunlight, so that people from Northern European areas where eyes are green and blue, can tolerate the sunlight just as good as people with brown eyes. People with brown eyes tend to tan better and they don`t have the need for sunglasses. So it`s an adaptation we`ve had over thousands of years.

GRACE: Dr. Morrone, while I still have you, let me ask you this. Referring to the DNA that was in the car and the DNA that the police claim that they found behind the sofa in her rental unit, how is it that DNA can become so degraded it can no longer be used for official testing?

MORRONE: DNA is chains and strands of amino acids. And when there`s erred (ph) segments, they`re missing, they`re chopped out. And the police, with the technology at that time, tried to say, OK, this is the parents` DNA and we have some other DNA here, but there was obviously something missing, and they made some assumption. We`re much better at this, and the DNA technology has really exploded. But they made assumptions that were incorrect because of missing pieces they thought they could match up other parts. It`s like a puzzle.

GRACE: Right.

MORRONE: It was a bad move on their part, way too early.

GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, what do you believe in regards to that area of the world, as far as human trafficking. And I don`t mean just sex trafficking. I mean trafficking for adoption purposes.

KLAAS: Sure, this is baby trafficking. I think that six years later they`re going to under -- it will be an enormous challenge to be able to track down a Gypsy gang, because they tend to be very transient anyway, to be able to bring this together. But Nancy, the one thing that`s really clear is this is all happening now because of the McCanns` dogged determination to find out what happened to their daughter. That`s not the hallmark of guilty parents. It`s obvious there were huge errors made at the beginning of this investigation, and that`s why they`re in the situation they`re in now. You know, the fact that the prime minister of England has taken a personal interest in this, I think is really the driving force behind this current investigation.

GRACE: You know, to you, Jerry Lawton, senior true crime reporter joining us from the Daily Star. Everyone, it`s a parents` worst nightmare. You take your children on vacation, and they`re stolen from their rental unit, never to be seen again. British police now believe Maddie`s kidnapper may have been staying in one of the apartments very near the McCann family. What do you think?

LAWTON: Well, I think all options are open. It is indeed possible, and one of the reasons it is possible you`ve touched on is the poor investigation in the early stages. There`s a phrase that a police friend of mine uses over here on any investigation (inaudible) when a child goes missing, and that is clear the ground beneath your feet, and that means you start at the point where she was last seen, and you literally clear absolutely everything around there, working outwards, systematically and methodically, to try and determine what happened to her.

That has clearly not happened here. As we`re aware from the Portuguese police files, which are available to the media and were released following the previous investigation, people who were -- they never even found everyone who was in those apartments, staying in them the night she vanished. People were renting them privately. Some people were renting them through companies. Tour operators were renting them. And the police never did that ground work. So they don`t even know who precisely was in each apartment when Madeleine went missing. So the possibility that one of this possible gang was in that apartment or staying very close by cannot be eliminated at this stage until a far more thorough investigation has taken place.

GRACE: Matt Zarrell?

ZARRELL: Specifically they`re looking at four apartment blocks containing 59 apartments, including apartment 5a, which is where Kate and Jerry McCann were staying with Madeleine.


GRACE: In a stunning about-face, Scotland Yard now says baby Maddie McCann, who was kidnapped off her family vacation, may very well be alive. Alexis Tereszcuk joining us. Senior report, What are some of the sightings of Madeleine?

TERESZCUK: Well, the night that she was taken, there was a sighting of her as I`ve spoken about earlier being carried out. There was also somebody as we spoke about in the taxicab. But there have been sightings all over the world of Madeleine. Different people have said they saw her. In fact, they have been very recent. In other spots in Europe, people saying that they suspected another little girl with blonde hair who resembled her. There were some in France, there were in Spain, which is very close to there, so it`s something that the police are looking into again, because this is giving them hope. This is finally people that are spotting this little girl and with the attention it`s brought back and her parents relentlessly staying in the media and keeping attention on their missing child. People are now saying they have seen her around.

GRACE: To Greg Cason, psychologist, Ph.D. joining me out of L.A. If baby Maddie is now found after Scotland Yard is now basically reopening the case, what difficulties, what hurdles will the family have in getting her back and assimilating her back into the family?

CASON: This will be incredibly tough for this family to go through. Because they`re going to have to have a child who does not know them. She was just a few days shy before her fourth birthday before she was taken, and now she`s almost ten. So she`s going to have a life with another family that she now knows as her family. So going back to her parents is going to be a huge adjustment. Plus, her parents are going to have to deal with the trauma of what they went through and having to not only have a huge sigh of relief, but have to deal with all the emotional feelings that have been coming up and been pent up over these last six years.

GRACE: But how do you do it? How do you do it, Doctor? How do you get over the hurdle? What do you do with a child that doesn`t even know you anymore?

CASON: You know, it`s going to take a long time. They`re going to have to acclimate her and have her be a part of the family, tell her the story of what happened. She was probably told the story that if she does have any memories, that her original family didn`t want her. I`m sure that was part of it. Plus, this little girl might be angry that her parents didn`t protect her, that they didn`t keep her from being abducted. So the parents are going to have to take a long, slow re-acclimation process. Work with therapists and other health professionals in order to have them come back together as a family unit.


GRACE: Everyone, Labor Day coming up. We celebrate a very special group of workers, working moms. Are you a working mom? Do you know one who deserves recognition for hard work at home and at work? I want to hear from you. Send us a video explaining why you or your loved one is the best working mom in America. Five videos with the most votes wins my signature handcuff necklace, earrings, t-shirts, the works. Details, go to After you go to the website, send in those videos.

Tonight, we remember American hero, Army Specialist Shane Ahmed. 31, Chesterfield, Michigan. Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal. Parents Jamal and Subra (ph). Brother Assif (ph). Widow Ava (ph). Daughter Evita. Son Evan. Shane Ahmed, American hero.

Is baby Maddie alive? She`s not a baby anymore. Every parent`s worst nightmare. They took baby Maddie, just a stunning little girl, on vacation with her twin younger siblings. They go to dinner nearby, checking on her every 30 minutes. They find that she has been taken from her bed. With me from the Daily Star, true crime correspondent Jerry Lawton. So many theories circulating, cops looking for a pock-marked male. What can you tell me about that?

LAWTON: Well, the pock-marked male has featured quite heavily since the very early days of the inquiry. And this is something the Portuguese police originally looked at. This was a guy who was seen hanging around the resort three or four days prior to Madeleine`s disappearance. And he was seen basically first of all on the beach. He looked out of place on what is largely a holiday beach. And what is a quaint Portuguese resort. Not a large resort. And this guy seemed to be looking at children from the fun club that Madeleine actually attended during her holiday. I stress Madeleine wasn`t among those girls, but that -- he was showing what was described as an unhealthy interest.

GRACE: They are at the club where they, like a kids club at a hotel or a cruise ship, where parents leave them with babysitters. Everyone, the search for baby Maddie goes on. As we go to break tonight, happy birthday to Shirley Talbert. Mother, grandmother, loved her husband dearly, Dave Talbert, who has just passed on, who fought in Vietnam. She loves arranging flowers, and she bakes the best sugar cookies in the world. Happy birthday, Ms. Talbert. Everyone, Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.


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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 Empty McCann Interview with Huw Edwards Transcript

Post by Verdi on 16.05.19 2:56

Interview with Huw Edwards. BBC1 - 2nd May

Gerald MC : I think it's not been a conscious preparation because we both hoped we wouldn't get to that stage but I think that what we have done has been incredibly busy in the background, erm there's a lot of work in the investigation side, it's kept me incredibly busy over the last four to six weeks, Kate has more to do with the Amber campaign for the young children..

Kate MC : I mean it's pretty much a day by day, week by week, to be honest, I mean I don't look too far ahead really, erm as Gerry said we didn't want to get to this point, and now that we've got to this point we need to use the opportunity I guess, to focus on what is more important, which is Madeleine.

Huw Edwards : You're making a very big effort to get the message out again so, in its latest form, what is the message you're giving on this first anniversary ?

KMC : The message is Madeleine is still missing and she needs to be found and we guess we are urging people to help us still and I know people have helped us from day one, but we still need the help and Madeleine still needs that help and we need that key bit of information with which it could be over (makes a gesture "it's so simple").

GMC : (looking at the public) Sure, really this is really a direct appeal. We wouldn't be here if we weren't appealing to the public to come forward, to those who actually have actually phoned with information may it be to the police or hotline, we want you to rack your brains if you were then in PDL, someone knows something, that could unlock this and that's the key for us getting that information (bending to pick up a poster that he presents to the camera saying distinctly the hotline number) I would ask to show this, if it's ok, we have a new hotline number, We will guarantee anonymity for anyone who wants it, all information will be treated confidentially

HE : You've been very thorough, you had a very high profile over the past year, what makes you think...

GMC : (interrupting) I have another (? desire ?)

HE : But of course but at least it has been effective in campaigning terms, that high profile, what makes you hope that the year on someone is going to turn up a factor, a hint which  could make the difference ?

KMC : (interrupting) Well, she's still missing, she hasn't been found (video skips.. There is still that bit of information). And you know somebody definitively knows something and they may not realize that, but you know it's linked, you know there might be something they remember from that day or around that day, erm... which is vital, it just takes a few things to slot into place.

GMC : I think that's right thought, because that time of year people are going to be saying, thinking about summer holidays, is going away, last time was here and it would bring it home to people.

HE : When have you lost contact with the Portuguese police about the investigation ?

GMC : I think we don't really have direct contact or some contact, but there is some contact with our Portuguese solicitor.

HE : You asked for information ? Did you ask for updates on the campaign or have you just given up with asking ?

GMC : We would very much like to know exactly what has been done, what hasn't been done, who has been eliminated and on what grounds and just what leads have still been actively followed and that information hasn't, erm been forthcoming to us...

KMC : This is a crime, this is a horrific crime against a young child and I think we need to focus on that, you know Madeleine is still missing, an hideous crime has been committed, and that person is still out there.

HE : As fellow parents, we talk about the case obviously, it's a natural thing to do, it's been in the forefront of people's minds. One of the questions that lots of people asked during these months is how do you maintain the hope that you might find her alive, what keeps that hope in place ?

KMC : Number one, Madeleine is so important to us.. and Sean and Amelie. Number two there is no evidence, absolutely no evidence that any harm has come to her and three, if you look at for example the States, where you know they have a lot os statistics related to this kind of crime, children are recovered, you know, a lot of children are recovered and the younger the child the better the chances are.

GMC : As a parent, you know, you cannot give up on your child, you wouldn't give up and you would do anything...

KMC : (interrupting) And what a disservice it would be to Madeleine to assume otherwise without any evidence !

HE : How do you manage life at home with your twins who, as you said many times, deserve as normal upbringing as they can be given in the circumstances, how do you keep that going ... Where do you get your strength from.. to do that ?

KMC : I think the children can be the strength for sure, you know, Sean and Amelie are amazing little people and they are very happy and actually they have a very normal life, and they go to the nursery two days a week and the other days, when they're at home, we just do the normal things that anyone would do with the children.. and we do spent a lot of the evenings working obviously and phone calls, emails and things. But their life is as normal as it could be, but they haven't got a big sister.

HE : How present is Madeleine in the house ? I mean you talk...

KMC : Very.

HE : ... So that doesn't change in that sense.

GMC : (speaking over) Madeleine is still a big part of Sean and Amelie's life and they have still spent two thirds of their life with Madeleine been ever present and these constant reminders.. and we've taken a lot of professional advice about how best to manage the situation and whether they would have been adapting as well as they have (laugh), without that advice I think probably they would, but for much further reassurance (?)... they have been fantastic, I don't think we would have coped without them, but there has been a big extended family role, friends in this and the overwhelming support we've had from the vast majority of the public has really helped lift us and driven us on. In Praia da Luz and the days afterwards and erm.. the feeling was almost like a tidal wave and motion came back and that really helped lift us.

KMC : It still does, I mean we still get so much mail and support of people and it really does lift you, you know, it's...

HE : Do you mind my asking something that lots of parents have asked me which is what do you say to your young twins when they ask questions, I mean how have you dealt with that with their questions and inquiries ?

KMC : Well I guess they are still only 3, I mean as Gerry said they talk of Madeleine a lot, which is lovely. You know, they just say that Madeleine is missing and we say, yes but we are looking for her, but it doesn't really go to any more depth than that and it doesn't need to at the minute.. because you know, can I ask anything else ? You know we've always believed and we've been told the best is to be honest with them.

HE : There is often in the press where people say things, you know, like you can't show emotion and all the rest of it when you are already under enormous pressure, how do you cope with that ?

KMC : We'd be lying if we said it wasn't hurtful and it's amazing how so many people could have such an opinion of things they know nothing about but again it's a development you know and yes it takes you away from it for a minute, but you just have to get back on track, you know..

HE : You had a very high profile visit to Europe where you were promoting the Amber Alert scheme and there are signs today that the support for that among members of Parliament is still growing, erm.. why have you locked on into this particular scheme as one which you liked to promote ?

GMC : One of the things we encountered are (?) very, very early one and clearly as a parent when your child goes missing you want everything done and even though that night we were saying things like the border has been alerted, the ports, various things, and you worry is that child is going to be moved and moved quickly far away from the scene of the crime...

HE : (interrupting) You both were very honest about the questions you asked about your own actions when Madeleine disappeared and the doubts you had and the criticism you levelled at yourselves. Are you finding it easier not to be self-critical a year on, or not ?

GMC : We've talked a year ago and from the minute we discovered Madeleine missing, we tried to focus on what can still be done and dwelling on the negative you can't change what's happened and, as much as we'd love to have turned the clock back and decided not to have gone erm to Tapas erm restaurant that night. We can't change it and what we need to focus on and what we're asking the public to do is to concentrate on what can still be done, Madeleine is a gorgeous little girl, she's still out there and, you know, we're asking for help to find her.

HE : And for those who (?) the campaign has been running maximum energy for a year and do they ask questions on how long can you sustain that kind of campaign with that kind of energy and commitment that it needs, the fact that it clearly affects your entire lives, what do you say to people ?

KMC : You know I only care for Madeleine (?). You know, I want Madeleine back, I need to have Madeleine and... that's all that keeps us going

[Acknowledgement pamalam at gerrymcannsblogcouk]

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 Empty Re: McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

Post by Verdi on 07.06.19 13:46

McCanns to mark sombre anniversary

24th January 2010 -

Jan. 24: It's been nearly 1,000 days since 3-year-old Madeleine McCann disappeared during a family vacation, and despite scores of leads, global headlines and possible sightings, the young girl remains missing. NBC's Tom Aspell reports, then TODAY's Jenna Wolfe sits down with Clarence Mitchell, a spokesperson for the family.



By Nigel Moore

Jenna Wolfe: And joining us now is Clarence Mitchell, spokesperson for Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann. Clarence, good morning, thanks for being with us today.

Clarence Mitchell: Good morning, Jenna, good to be with you.

JW: So, as we mentioned, this does mark... this week will mark the 1,000 date anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. Can you tell us how her parents are holding up?

CM: Kate and Gerry have good and bad days, as you would well expect given that their daughter is still not home, as you say, nearly a thousand days on. They draw greatest strength from when they sense there is momentum in the search, and in the wider campaign to keep awareness of Madeleine high in the public eye, and so, on Wednesday, to mark a thousand days exactly they're going to be holding a fund raising event in London and they'll be surrounded by their long term friends and supporters, so they will draw great strength from that. But it is very difficult and they do find any, errr... anniversary or occasion like this to be very difficult.

JW: We understand that Gerry and Kate have also hired their own, errr... private investigator. Can you tell us a little bit about how that investigation is going? Has it led to any leads?

CM: There are lots of leads, whether they're the significant one that will lead to Madeleine is the question, and no... have we found her yet? No we haven't. Errr... It's a very small team currently looking into Madeleine's disappearance, led by some former British detectives now acting as private investigators. They're doing a very thorough job of going back over all the evidence, all the Portuguese police files that were finally released after a lot of pressure from... from this end and, errr... they feel that there is useful information still out there to be had; we still need people to come forward. If people go to the website all of the contact emails and phone numbers for anyone who thinks they may have seen her, or has any information about her, should... should look at that website. That information will go straight to our investigators and they are following it up on a daily basis. They go back to Portugal, from time to time; they were back there recently. The work is very much ongoing, although Madeleine isn't quite in the headlines as much as she was, the search is very much continuing and there are hundreds of calls that are still being checked out.

JW: Well, I understand that Gerry and... and Kate are attempting to block the sale... one of the new pieces of information out... are intending to block the sale of a book released by a Portuguese policeman who says that Madeleine, errr... is dead and that the parents, errr.... her parents are suspects. Can you tell us where we are in that civil case, right now? As if they need something else to continue to worry about.

CM: Well, absolutely, that's the last thing they need. This is a book written by a former police officer who was removed from the case after he criticised British police, errr... in the inquiry, errr... some two years ago. Errr... He's written a book in which he makes those allegations, as you say, he claims that he believes Madeleine is dead and that Kate and Gerry know what happened. It is totally untrue. Nor has he any evidence to make those wild, libellous allegations and that's why Kate and Gerry have gained an injunction to stop his book from being published anymore. He currently is appealing against that and we're expecting a ruling from a judge in February... mid February. Kate and Gerry obviously remain very hopeful that the judge will do the right thing and ban the book completely. We don't like to take that sort of legal action but the allegations this man is making will make people believe that Madeleine is dead and therefore they won't look for her and that will damage the search.

JW: Alright, Clarence Mitchell, we thank you so much for your time. Our thoughts continue to be with the McCanns in their search. Thank you.

[Acknowledgement:  gerrymccannsblog and mccannfiles]

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 Empty Re: McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

Post by Verdi on 15.06.19 0:51

Madeleine McCann Case on Spanish TV 4 Feb 25,2010

Transcript by "Reme"
Translation by Mercedes
With thanks to "Himself" for English grammar

00:55 - Concha Garcia Campoy: We have news in the "Maddie" case. The book "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie" that was written by former Police Co-ordinator Gonçalo Amaral, will remain prohibited in Portugal as we informed here previously.

Earlier this year, it was provisionally withdrawn from the bookstores at the request of the McCanns and now the courts have just ratified the measure. Jerónimo Boloix, how are you, good afternoon. And we have a person who knows much about this case, the author of a blog, Mercedes how are you?

Can you interpret what happened as a new victory for the McCanns?

Mercedes: A momentary victory. The fact that someone bans the freedom of speech of the police or any person, is very, very, difficult to maintain in a court, Gonçalo Amaral is prepared to appeal to the European Court, and he will, he is a strong man and this is a struggle they have between them and I think in the end ...

Concha: It seems it is true that the struggle is to reopen the case, is that right Jerónimo? What he wants is to know the truth ... is taking a risk, a risk from the very start...

Mercedes: Yes

Jerónimo Boloix: I think that even though this first ruling is contrary to the interests of Amaral, it may facilitate the reopening of the case, I think Gonçalo should appeal this ruling and contribute to the case. What surprises me greatly is that they are trying to silence the book, and we have just seen a few seconds ago Paulo Sargento's statements.

Concha: Wait a minute, now that you mention this, because it is an exclusive statement of the forensic psychologist, who has been involved in the case from the start, and Alejandro Vazquez has been with him and actually he is absolutely certain; listen.

Exclusive Interview with Paulo Sargento.

Video: Pictures of Madeleine playing with her brothers

Alejandro Vázquez: You've worked on the Madeleine case from the beginning.

Paulo Sargento: From the beginning, from the second day after the disappearance.

Alejandro Vázquez: And what's your theory?

Paulo Sargento: I think the girl died on May 3, and it would have been utterly impossible for the kidnapping to have taken place. The abduction has been a media construction only, because there is not one supporting fact to support this.

Alejandro Vázquez: Why the McCanns are now saying that there is no evidence that Madeleine is dead?

Paulo Sargento: Because their (the McCann's) interpretation is contrary to death, in fact there is evidence: corpse odour, the scent of human blood and there is a set of forensic evidence, evidence that the girl is dead unfortunately.

Alejandro Vázquez: Can your surmise that with such evidence that there has been a murder, manslaughter...

Paulo Sargento: Yes.

Alejandro Vázquez: ...the case has been shelved.

Paulo Sargento: I am sure that were it a Portuguese couple, the treatment wouldn't have been the same. The forensic evidence would have been constituted as proof, and probably the couple would be in prison.

Alejandro Vázquez: How would you define Gerry and Kate's behaviour?

Paulo Sargento: They have changed the roles, also advised by image consultants, from the beginning Cuddle Cat in her hands, and then we saw that Kate disappeared from scene and Gerry took over the leadership. Gerry is very aggressive. He is very, very aggressive, he is a man who is very impulsive... ahhh, Maddie disappeared, between quotes, and Gerry McCann asked for a priest, if my daughter disappears I would ask for more police ... after that he requested an image consultant, to me it would be better to ask for more police. If somebody presents me the first piece evidence of an abduction, I'll shut up forever, but real evidence and discussed in a logical manner.

Alejandro Vázquez: How can we understand now that the accused is Gonçalo...?

Paulo Sargento: Gonçalo Amaral represents symbolically, what Gerry and Kate do not want, the death, and their participation in concealing the body. Because he has been the Chief Inspector, has left the police, has published a book that says the same as the process.

Alejandro Vázquez: Are you confident that at some point the truth will be known, and the process reopened?

Paulo Sargento: I believe in justice; I believe that Justice will be done, I don't know when.

Alejandro Vazquez: Thank you for everything.

Paulo Sargento: Thank You.

End of the Video

Concha: Mother! He speaks clear, categorical, absolutely, eh... Do you think, as he says that if the McCanns were Portuguese they would be in jail? What do you feel Mercedes?

Mercedes: Of course, without a doubt. Parents who recognize that they left three small children alone, under four years of age, to have dinner and they say they were passing by every half hour, which has been shown, that at least the night before this was not true, there is a statement that appears in the Process of a neighbour who heard the girl crying for an hour and a half the night before, that for any other couple...

Alfonso Egea: It's not a hypothesis; there have been examples in Portugal. There was one case of a child and the mother was not only suspected but was imprisoned, obviously the nationality of the McCanns plays an important role here. Now after hearing Paulo Sargento imagine...

Concha: Because he is precise, she is dead. There are no forensic doubts.

Alfonso Egea: I guess the next move for the McCanns will be to request this man to shut up too and if this was up to them, everyone should shut up ...

Jerónimo Boloix: The most shameful of all this is that, as Paulo Sargento said, the book reflects the status of the investigation. The person who spoke is a forensic psychologist who has been involved with the case from the beginning. He said white and in a bottle... (Spanish riddle: white and in a bottle... The obvious answer is: milk). The only thing he didn't say is when these people should go to prison. But let's be realistic here, what is happening, is a political struggle by the British Government against the Portuguese Government, this is preventing further clarification, and unfortunately, we may be in a situation of a judicial lie. There an issue that we must not forget, this little girl disappeared on May 3, three years ago, and no one is looking for her because no one cares for her. There are instructions from the parents, individuals and institutions that support the parents in their bogus search for the girl.

Concha: Well, it's true that, in addition to what yourself and Paulo Sargento have said, it is clear that, when a child is missing and the first thing you do not do is call a priest, the first thing I would do is call the police, here they requested an image consultant, not more police to investigate, now that's...

Mercedes: I can say that the first article was published at 1 minute past 12 on May 4th. We can see in the process that the first call to police from the Ocean Club's reception was at twenty to eleven PM... ummm, the timings just don't fit.

Alfonso Egea: You know very well that, that summer, they shared time with a television producer, who was the second person to receive a call, incomprehensible...

Mercedes: Actually...

Jerónimo Boloix: Equally incomprehensible is that having access to the future British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, they didn't request top British specialists, Scotland Yard, but this image consultant, this is pure and simply an agreement in that the image of the McCanns must appear above suspicion in the matter of their daughter's...

Concha: It surprises me more, Mercedes, and some will think and I believe with good reason, you must be the person that knows more about this case here, because you have collected most of the information... "Until we know the truth". Well, what a commitment, no? You've made a commitment to Gonçalo Amaral and, do you think that we will know the truth if people like you don't throw the towel...?

Mercedes: I think we are all helping each other on the internet, there are currently very few media outlets that are treating this, like today, in a serious way, nobody wants to censure the parents, the aim is to allow the police to do their job, nothing more. You can see very clearly that there was external pressure, no matter from whom; there has been pressure to close a case that was ongoing, something that is unprecedented in an investigation of this nature.

Jerónimo Boloix: I want to ask Mercedes if you know the reason why this trial that has been held now, against Gonçalo Amaral's book, why haven't they admitted a witness or why haven't the English witnesses appeared?

Mercedes: They were pressured. They claimed they were under official secret. Official secrecy is something that has been invoked on several occasions. There are journalists who have requested information and reply they have received, is that it could not be provided because the case was under the Official Secrets Act.

Concha: If a Prime Minister is related....

Jerónimo Boloix: But Justice for the girl and ascertaining what happened to her, I think it is paramount...

Concha: Well Mercedes, it has been a pleasure, many thanks. We will contact you again when we review this case that I find so very interesting.

Mercedes: Thank you; thank you very much for addressing this issue seriously and for providing an opportunity for Madeleine. Everyone gives the opportunity to Kate and Gerry McCann."

[Acknowledgement: pamalam at gerrymccannsblog]

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

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Post by Verdi on 15.06.19 0:58

Transcript of radio interview Brian Johnson: Faked Abduction

Source: Paul Drockton Radio Show

[Note: Brian Johnson is Steve 'Stevo' Marsden]

Paul: Good afternoon, this is Paul Drockton, you're listening to the Paul Drockton radio show and we've got a special guest today, Steve Marsden who is also a published author. And we're going to talk about the er, the potentially faked abduction of Maddie McCann and basically, just to get this started ...Brian, er Steve is basically a British citizen and moved to the United States a few years ago and he's done quite a bit of work with er, er, computers and programming. He's also a licensed pilot, and drives or fly's British aircraft. In addition to that he studies history, photography, soccer, rugby, travel, and he considers himself quite the expert on ['cadaver'] and done quite a bit of research on what we refer to as the Davinci Code. In fact he's been to Rosslyn chapel quite a few times.

So, let me ask yer, erm, er Brian, what do you think er is the most critical thing we need to know about Maddie'

Steve (Brian): That's a good question, really er Paul and thanks for having me on the show today. Ermm...the story, story's just exploded from, you know, three years ago May 3rd when she disappeared.'s just been, a government conspiracy, a British government conspiracy to er, cover up the true circumstances of the disappearance from day one. I think that's the most insidious aspect to the nature of the British government intervening in the case. They didn't let the Portuguese police get on with their job, and er, this was exploited with the British media to a sort of a propaganda campaign against the investigators like from day one. And erm...

Paul: So when you say investigators, who, who, who would you name as, or who would you consider to be the investigators of this story'

Steve (Brian): Well he main investigators were the Portuguese CIE which er, the PJ which er judiciario they're like the equivalent of er, probably like the FBI in the USA. they're, they're, you know, higher than the sort of average police guy on the street and erm, the leader of that investigation was Goncalo Amaral and he was on the case from day one and through till October 2nd 2007.

Paul: Can you kind of give us a review of what the, er Portuguese FBI found in this case'

Steve (Brian): Erm, well they were investigating it, getting you know, they were, they were pretty much led in the investigation by this group known as the Tapas9 which were the nine people, Madeleine's parents with seven other couples ' seven other people er...sorry, er three couples and another lady. And they were kinda leading the investigation down the road of abduction but with very little evidence. And...the

Paul: How, how are these ...I'm going to interrupt you as we go along because some people are not as familiar with this know, you are obviously and we wanna make sure that we cover some of the questions that they probably have, so we're talking about seven individuals ...are these individuals like co-conspirators ...would you...are they, are we talking about a paedophile ring' What, what exactly are we referring to'

Steve (Brian): Erm, each of the couples, as I say, there's four couples and another lady so that there's nine people, nine adults and eight children in the group. They were just friends erm, in each of the couples were at least, like
Kate and Gerry the parents of Madeleine they were both doctors, er, in the other couples there was at least one doctor so they all knew each other from medical school, erm, they went out on the vacation to Portugal for one week, the vacation was organised by one of the doctors within in the group, David Payne...and erm, you know, they pretty much went on what a lot of people would consider an adult holiday er vacation. They went erm, they left the children each day in a daytime, sort of day care cr'he facility and then in the evening they would go out socialising and leave the children back in the apartment so, you know, first question is....

Paul: Were there other children that were with Madeleine' Is that what we're talking about here'

Steve (Brian): Well, each of the couples had their respective children you know, so according to their own alibis they had left the children each night in the apartments while they went out socialising.

Paul: Gochyer. What was the oldest child' Do you know' I mean...

Steve (Brian): Well, they were all toddlers pretty much, babies in arms or kind of, you know, in strollers or you know, three, four year old. That sort of age range.

Paul: So are we talking about.... they basically locked these kids up at night while they went out and partied'

Steve (Brian): Well that's a good question because on the original er witness statements on the day after she disappeared on May 3rd ...on May 4th witness statements from Gerry and Kate they spoke of erm entering the apartment from a locked door. So clearly in that case you're right it was locked, but their alibi soon changed to er, entering the apartment through the patio doors which they claimed to have left open.

Paul: So....I guess what I'm trying get at here is you know, very minimum this is a case of neglect, I mean if you're talking about toddlers and I'm assuming they're still in diapers [diapers = nappies] or at least some of them were...

Steve (Brian): That, that...absolutely in diapers ...they even mentioned that so yes absolutely.

Paul: So minimal charges that could have been filed here were child neglect charges, the fact that they left them er, reportedly left them unsupervised and er, okay, I apologise so ....In, in your book you talk about er, there's certain questions that er... 48 questions that Kate did not answer. So Kate's the mother of Madeleine correct'

Steve (Brian): yep, yep that's right. Kate Healy.

Paul: Okay, so tell us a little about what their story was and then tell us, you know, where you see the holes.

Steve (Brian): Well the very first, we have to look at the very first story in the police file, the witness statements from the day after er, she went missing when they were taken into the police station to give their first account. So the very first account erm, were that ....

Paul: would it be okay if we took calls through this show as well' Oh I'm sorry Brian,
Steve (Brian): Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Paul: I'm gonna take one, take on right now

Steve: Okay.

Paul: Give me one second ...okay so, ...we lost the caller so...okay, I'm sorry, go ahead...

Steve (Brian): Okay, so, so , yeah...I've got a chapter in my book how the story unfolded and basically, it.... this, this was unanimous that the window and the shutter into the bedroom, the children's bedroom had been jimmied open or broken, erm, every single person that spoke to the media in the hours after the, er disappearance said that the window had been broken and she'd been snatched through this window, but the interesting thing is that when we see the police forensics erm, dusting the shutter and window for prints on the morning of May 4th, those prints were subsequently found to show that there was only Kate's and, I think, the police officer who probably examined the window on the night, they were the only prints found on the window. But 94 days after the disappearance and this is crucial, Kate was still telling the world that the window had been smashed open.

Paul: the window, the window was intact and someone had actually appeared to jimmy the door, correct'

Steve (Brian): NO! No, there were no signs of damage whatsoever

Paul: Hmm, just the fingerprints on that door perhaps, so the bottom line is what we're talking about here is perjury pretty much. Did she say this in court or was there...something else like that'

Steve (Brian): No, they never had any inquest and they never erm, they were never formally charged. Nobody's ever been formally charged with any offenses in connection, apart from there's a few people who tried to collect money on behalf of the official Madeleine Fund. Obviously that's sort of...

Paul: Well, that's a big issue I think to...we're gonna get back to it, first we'll take a little commercial break and I'd like invite yer to visit Crystals Trading er, if you're considering buying gold or silver or if you're considering buying more gold and silver you can go to my website er deadmansmusings or Paul drock MA and as you know one of the most popular websites in the entire world er, simply because of our investigative journalism and because of the guests, the high quality guests that we have right here on our program. So if you can visit my website, you'll see that there's an ad there for Crystals Trading, the phone number is 888 385 1116 and yer wanna talk to Mike. And they are just amazing erm and able to find what you want as far as gold bullion and silver bullion erm, at the lowest possible cost er yer gold bullion and silver coins whatever it is that yer need to convert your cash into hard currency so that you literally don't lose it during these times of economic er hardship and we're literally on that kind of verge of collapse here in the United States. Gold and silver are really the only safest thing you've got left er for your retirement and for your savings. So give er Crystals Trading a call the numbers 888 385 1116.....

...okay, so Brian let's back outta here and so what you're saying is this, that er there is no signs of forced entry correct'

Brian: Correct

Paul: And the question I've got is that, how much money has this lady rasied er for this fund'

Brian: Oh, the family erm wasted no time in setting up like an official er fund to collect the money, er within days of the disappearance and it was a well oiled machine, they used a very high powered firm of London lawyers to er, set the fund er going and erm, that was kind of a mystery in itself because the family live nowhere near London so they were well connected with a lot of high powered influential people in setting up this fund which raised probably in the region of 4 to 5 million dollars

Paul: amazing. I mean let's just examine this, I mean this to me is, you know, again thinking about this case is that here you have a er, purportedly grieved parent...right...and, how, how, what was the time between the disappearance the er setup of this er fund' This request for donations'

Brian: Erm, well they had a website domain registered on May 11th and she disappeared on May 8th sorry, May 3rd so that was what, 8 days. And then on May 15th er, four days after that was the official Limited Company that's formed.

Paul: To raise, to raise donations. Now what types of activities have we seen that they've done to you know, find Madeleine, supposedly even look for her, er where's this money gone, have they spent it on searching for Madeleine'

Brian: No, the thing is they've employed some private detectives in the first years of accounts there was 250,000 which is approximately half a million dollars back then with a group called Metodo3 and staying in Barcelona, Spain, this is an outfit that had no track record in looking for people so first of all the recruitment of this company is called into question anyway

Paul: Yeah, so bottom line is what you're saying is they brought in a bunch of amateurs er that they knew were not the best people for the job.

Brian: Right, right looks like as if er and you said that was 250,000 ...have you seen the other expenditures that were made by this fund'

Brian: Yeah, the company have also spent money on a guy called Kevin Halogen who's actually awaiting deportation from the UK to the US erm, he's implicated in some er there was a warrant out for his arrest in, I think in the State of Virginia last year erm, because of some embezzlement kind of, type of er activity in the DC area.

Paul: So we're talking about er...was he...let me ask you this...was he a produciaree(') in this fund, did he handle money er...what role did he play, do you know'

Brian: Who, who are you talking about now' Halogen'

Paul: Yeah.

Brian: No, I mean there's no sign that he was connected with the fund erm, I don't think there's any signs on the surface if you like of anybody that they've spent money with as being the word, say money laundering or whatever but I mean, it's just that the choice of the company that, the people, the investigators that they used, they just don't seem to have any track so if they're using donated funds, you know, why isn't anybody questioning erm, like, surely you'd go to a company that's had successes in finding people.
Paul: Yeah, which they haven't...and has there been any, let me ask you this, has there been any efforts in Portugal to find er Maddie'

Brian: No, er when the police erm, the police wound up the case after, almost after a year of the cold case er, because they didn't have enough evidence to bring about a prosecution so it's been shelved as a cold case but erm, i don't think Portugal have ever really followed the line of a missing person in terms of looking for her because they believed that she, she died erm in the apartment, that was their conclusion, that's why I wrote my book. My book is actually really just about the conclusion and why the Portuguese police concluded that she had died in the apartment

Paul: Let's focus on that tell me; tell me why er the Portuguese police determined that Madeleine had died in the apartment

Brian: Erm, well first of all they couldn't find any evidence of any ...there's no physical evidence of abduction apart from the Tapas9 saying she was abducted. Erm, there's no, there's no, there was no evidence of any person going through that window, there was no scuffmarks there was no...the Lichen [lie-ken'] on, on the window as not marked in any way ermm...

Paul: The moss correct'

Brian: The moss, yes.

Paul: Okay

Brian; So here was no sign of anybody taking her through that window, erm, and you know, there was so many contradictions in the ever changing alibis. So, they brought in erm, a police expert dog handler called Martin Grime who erm, had a cadaver dog and a human blood sniffing dog and er, they brought this guy in and he works for the FBI, he works around the world, his dogs have got international passports so they're used in a lot of international cases with a lot of success and never had any failures and they went into the apartment, I spoke to Martin Grime personally in December a couple of times and er, he outlined the search procedure to me and you know, when he was introduced into the case erm, he called it a clearing run to go into the apartment, he had no idea or any preconceived notion that the dogs would alert in that apartment, but they alerted in the McCanns apartment

Paul: they alerted for blood correct.

Brian: Well first of all he puts the cadaver dog in there and of course if the cadaver dog senses there's a dead body then he brings in the blood sniffing dog. So, two dogs were deployed separately but the two dogs alerted in the same places.

Paul: Yeah, that's amazing, I mean that the bottom line is the cadaver dog identified that there was a dead body in that house or in that apartment.

Brian: Correct...and that...

Paul: So...and they also found blood...I'm sorry, go ahead.

Brian: yeah, I was going to make the point ...I even asked Martin Grime, I said well what's the chances of somebody planting some evidence in there because you know, there is a product pseudo scent which is often used to train these cadaver dogs but Martin assured me that his dogs do not alert to the manmade product so he said, the only way he could see erm, you know, evidence of the dead body in an apartment is if somebody had gone to the morgue you know, and introduced a real dead body oe you know, items relating to a dead body in there.

Paul: could cadaver been from someone died previously, I mean, how long does the scent stay in the apartment' I mean how long....

Brian: Well, the police checked the apartment and there was no record of anybody having died before or after the McCanns stayed in the apartment.

Paul: Hm. So bottom line is er this gentleman is saying this dog will not alert on any artificial substance er, that there would have actually have been a dead body in that apartment for the dog to alert and then the second dog was brought in and found blood the question I've got for yer is ... what's the response from er Kate and er and these dogs, what did she say'

Brian: Ermm...well, the response was that she said she'd come into contact with six dead bodies in her work as a GP as a General Practitioner in the weeks preceding the vacation

Paul: what did the dog hander say to that explanation'

Brian: Er he didn't. He said you know, I mean he's a very professional he didn't make any opinion ot me erm, because as he says his dogs are just a tool in the process, it's up to the forensics after the dogs have gone in know they're, they're ...the dogs are finding a needle in a haystack after that it's down to the forensic guys to examine the needle. So you know....

Paul: have they been able to document that she did in fact was around six dead bodies before she went into the apartment'

Brian: Well that's one of these factual things that, you know, we know she said that but there's been no proof or collaboration of that.

Paul: um hum...So bottom line is er, obviously what we have here is we have every reason to suspect there's enough evidence there to launch a criminal investigation and obviously it sounds like Portugal ..This is outside of their jurisdiction right now or ... you tell me. Would they have to actually bring her back into the country for trial or...

Brian: Well, in Portugal, the way there judicial system works they were actually named as official defendants or arguidos in September, early September of 2007, this was soon after the dogs had gone in, just over a month after that and the legal status as an arguido meant they had to report to a police station every five days, er within every week I think it was, you know, there were certain conditions and erm, that legal status had to bring about charges or they had to erm, free them from that legal status. So in the summer of 2008 they were actually released from that status when the case was shelved as a cold case. Now the McCanns told the world that they were officially cleared, well that's not true they were not officially cleared because they were never officially charged, they were just ... er...they had their arguido status er rescinded.

Paul: So one of the things we have here of course is that er, not just manipulation but this is the thing, it sounds as if these people's stories have changed now, it's er, it's basically changed to suit whatever information comes out.

Brian: certainly has. I mean that's one of the noticeable aspects of the case that, for instance er, when the police made their er appropriate international rogatory requests with the British government to er, interview some of the suspects in England in 2008 obviously this was a vacation, most of the people had gone back home so, you know, they had to follow it up with interviews in the UK which they did substantially in April 2008 ermm...

Paul: You say 'they'...who's the investigators here.

Brian: Well, the Portuguese investigators then liaised with the British, er the British police in the er the county where the McCanns live, this is Leicestershire constabulary and so most of these er rogatory interviews were conducted in Leicester in England and erm, they also made requests for, you know, documentations for instance the McCanns financial records, the erm, medical records of Madeleine but the British government intervened and would not allow Madeleine's medical records to be disclosed

Paul: Mmmm....that's crazy. So we're talking about conspiracy goes right to the top. We're going to take another quick commercial break here and then we'll come back er to the story. So obviously what you're hearing here is disturbing, disgusting and er this is what we do, this is what the purpose of my radio show is, Paul Drockton radio and also the purpose of my site is to expose these criminals and you know I haven't asked Brian's opinion on this but I'm assuming these people, if they are guilty of this are also involved in the occult, Satanism, there's gotta be some connection, there usually is when we talk about paedophiles. If you would like to make a contribution to this effort er you can go to my website and for as little as $5 a month you can become a sponsor. Or if you have a small business you want to advertise as well we have programmes. And as a site you need over 44,000 unique visits per month and obviously here on our radio show we have thousands of visitors that listen in. So, if you want to be part of this, go to my website deadmansmusings or Paul Drockton and er, click on the 'urgent' and become a sponsor for site radio button.

Okay, so here's a question I've got, obviously all this is leading to the conclusion, at least I'm having...there's a conspiracy going on here and erm, can you tell us more about that'

Brian: Well, the amazing thing is as I say, the amount of British government intervention and when I say that I'm talking about the highest level of cabinet ministers,, er, Tony Blair was the Prime Minister at the time er, Gordon Brown was the Chancellor, both of these people made personal phone calls to the McCanns and notably in Kate's diary she refers to those people has Tony and Gordon as if she's got some prior connection with these people, erm, you know, there's a certain familiarity with these people that erm, transcends a normal persons er, if you like, relationship with the government and that's never been disclosed and I think as public servants, publically elected servants Gordon Brown and Tony Blair should be made to answer for what they're real role was in the McCann case.

Paul: um the bottom line is er, I guess it is a question that the reason, that I'm thinking to myself here is, these other kids that were there erm, were they interviewed, were they talked to at all'

Brian: That's an interesting point as well you see, er, in Gerry McCann's interview when he was made an official defendant he claimed that the twins weren't capable of speech but we have a lot of anecdotal evidence where relatives in the family say oh the twins have asked when is Madeleine coming back so we know they did have a good grasping of speech erm, but they never bothered to speak to the children, the twins, er Madeleine had two er twin brother and sister they were younger, they were two years old, er, but notably as well erm Paul on the night in question the twins were fast asleep and with all the commotion in the apartment they never woke and that was a point noted by several police officers.

As well as Fiona Payne who was one of the Tapas9 erm, and she actually commented that Kate kept going up to the twins and putting her hand on their mouth to see if they were breathing. And with all this commotion for several hours the twins just didn't wake up.

Paul: that's interesting. So the bottom line is, is that, okay so they did find blood though, or they did scent blood in the apartment so the question is, is it possible that the, you know, maybe the er, suspected murder took place outside of the apartment'

Brian: Well, I don't think that, you used the word murder there, erm, I don't think Portugal has ever claimed it to be a murder and...

Paul: aha...I said suspected murder so...I mean, I can express my opinion and that's what I'm doing.

Brian: Sure, sure, well Goncalo Amaral he erm, he puts forward the theory that she climbed on the sofa and fell off while unattended erm, I personally don't believe that, you know, but who am I to say...if she died in the apartment erm, there was some erm reports and early reports in September of 07 talking about a blood spray pattern on the wall er [commencing'] a fractured larynx so you know...

Paul: I'm sorry, a fractured...'

Brian: Larynx in the throat. There's a branch of forensics that can examine erm you know, where a wound was inflicted from the blood spray pattern on the wall or something.

Paul: Are we talking about literally, I mean this is, you know I'm going to ask the questions, but we're talking about she could have had her throat slit'

Brian: Ermmmm....I mean, I mean there is no particular evidence in the files or anywhere to say if she died how it occurred and erm, I mean one of the cadaver dog also alerted in a flowerbed outside the apartment er, the veranda was about, I'd say, about eight feet above ground level, so she could have climbed and fallen off and fallen into a flowerbed for example. You know, there's numerous theories...

Paul: the bottom line is you're talking about a blood splatter pattern here that seems consistent with someone who er, I mean, if you fracture larynx erm, that's not going to spray blood, if someone cuts yer that's going to spray blood and so, I mean this again, I'm just speculating here. But the point is, there's plenty of evidence there for a, for a criminal investigation and that's the bottom line is that there hasn't been one

Brian: Well, the criminal examination was erm, sabotaged by the British government as I say, going back to those records, those financial records that came back from England filled one side of paper and it just basically said that Kate and Gerry had no record of bank accounts or credit cards which is crazy because we know they rented a car er, using a credit card so ...

Paul: they covered up their tracks pretty much, I mean in other words there's no way for either you or I do know what they did, where they were at the time this took place.

Brian: Right, and if there was, you know... peoples spending habits is crucial in any criminal investigation but the Portuguese investigators were denied that knowledge.

Paul:'ve've got ..erm I don't know, I'm just going to ask you this. You've got 48 questions that Kate did not answer can you get into that a little bit'

Brian: Well, she basically ['] the fifth on every one of those questions er, if you ask me if I can just bring up the questions

Paul: No, that's okay, I don't think we need to get into ... you've got your book and this will be a good time, tell people how they can get hold of this book.

Brian: yeah, if they visit the website which is erm, they can order it directly online from, form the website, erm, they can order, if they order quantities for 4 to 9 books there's a discount on the handling fees but erm, at the moment it's sold, the book is sold into six different countries er the UK, the USA er, Portugal, Germany Spain and Belgium and er, you know it's provoking a lot of interest.

Paul: Well hopefully it will bring about er you know, I mean this is what we're dealing with here, internationally, you know, we've, we've already uncovered erm you know, on this radio program and through our site in numerous paedophile rings that are operating at highest levels of government and erm, you know one of the things that you bring up as well is that you talk about er, David Payne's paedophile allegations

Brian: Well there was...the British media has commented on the case as it's gone along but one, notably one piece of information in the British media has never talked about is erm, there was some er witness statements thirteen days after Madeleine disappeared in England, erm, two doctors who were friends of the McCanns went to Leicester police station to make a report about er an earlier vacation in 2005 in the Spanish island of Majorca erm, now on that vacation there was the two witnesses er, the Paynes and the McCanns and erm, there was a conversation between Gerry McCann and David Payne er that was er that was overheard by these two witnesses and er, it was highly inappropriate discussion which they deemed to be sexual and talking about Madeleine

Paul: This was after her death'

Brian: No, this was in 2005. The doctors were concerned er they had, they had concerns about this holiday that they'd be on in 2005 er and she disappeared in 07 so this was two years before she disappeared and so this inappropriate discussion erm, you know, they went to, naturally went to the police to erm, explain their experience back in 2005. Now that information....

Paul: They filed a police report'

Brian: They filed a police report. Now that information was deliberately withheld by Leicester police and not handed to Portuguese investigators for almost six months

Paul: Jeez

Brian: they didn't send it until October the 24th and er, by that time the chief inspector had been pulled off the case.

Paul: let me ask you a question. These two individuals okay, that we're talking about, what happened to them'

Brian: Er, do you mean the witnesses or'

Paul: yeah, the two witnesses

Brian: Er, they've never been heard of, I mean we know from the police files that they made that statement and erm, I don't think they've been interviewed by anybody. Er, my, my, my sort of guess is that the British media have been gagged on that aspect, a bit like the Hollie Greig case. I think that, you know, talking about the er, Payne/McCann allegations in Majorca is taboo and I think that's the aspect the McCanns have tried to get Goncalo Amaral's book injuncted ['] on that basis.

Paul: bottom line, let me ...we're going to have to take another break here real quick and erm, what I'd like you to do is if you are around my website is, you'll see there's a nice little green band there for the surge ex pro... [snipped], this is, this is the question alright. Were these individuals, this is what we've found in like....let me give you another example in Jon Banay case. They were actually putting Jon Banay in this beauty pageant and er, there's been a lot of er, evidence that seem to point, you know, that these childhood beauty pageants can also be used to er, erm, prostitute children, you know, for the use of, of paedophile elite and er, were they involved with anything like that with Madeleine'

Brian: Ermmm....I don't, I don't see any evidence of that whatsoever, erm, you know, I've got to be honest there erm, in fact..

Paul: We've got a caller here....Go ahead you're on the air. Hello' Hello, you're on the air. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Brian: Yeah, erm, I was going to say and I stress this point, that, the actual evidence that we see and all the hearsay from the friends and neighbours of the McCanns is that they were, you know, typical loving parents of, you know, three young children so the bizarre thing is if they were so security conscious, so er, caring towards the children you know, why did they leave them every night' So there's a clear conflict anyway erm....

Paul: We're going to take a call here...I'm, I'm sorry...are you there' Are you there' Sorry, go ahead. Are you there'

Yeah, hi, I'm here.

Paul: My apologies, we're just er...people are hanging up before we get to them. But this is such an interesting topic I mean, no honestly, I want to hear you talk about it so ...if you'd like to call in the number's [number delted] and let Brian have the chance to finish his statement and we'll get you on the air...okay I'm sorry...

Brian: Yeah, erm, it's just a mystery all round really and er and it's just been covered up in a similar way to you've had Anne Greig and Stuart Usher on your show recently and so you know the er...the way that the er British establishment can cover these things up. And no doubt this occurred with the Madeleine case. Now I think in the Hollie Greig case they were able to stop a wildfire by fanning the flames before they got too big erm, but in the Madeleine case because of its international erm, publicity and the nature of the disappearance they weren't, they weren't able to suppress the stories so what happened, instead of suppression erm, there was a sustained campaign of propaganda and so they brought in a guy who use to work for the British government called Clarence Mitchell who is a er, he worked for the Media Monitoring Unit in the government which is basically the governments propaganda department and he was brought in er, within days of the disappearance and erm, he had a clear hand in manipulating the British press to produce stories that were ostensibly were just that ' propaganda, just in favour of the McCanns

Paul: He's a spin doctor

Brian: He's a spin doctor, yeah.

Paul: Who pays for this guy'

Brian: Well, initially he was paid for by the tax payer because he was seconded to the McCanns from the Foreign Office so he was actually, initially employed by the British Foreign Office to go around as, as, you know, their PR man.

Paul: what we're talking about here is the government, the British Government actually got involved in er, suppressing the story

Brian: Correct. Yes.

Paul: We've got other allegations out there right now of er, paedophilia in er, you know, in the highest levels of British government don't we'

Brian: It would appear so, yes. There's a lot of stories, I read a story about Mike James recently er, looked very controversial

Paul: Can you tell us a little bit about it'

Brian: What ' Mike James' story'

Paul: know, let's talk about some of the other things that are going on right now. A lot of my listeners are you know, throughout the world and we don't erm...we don't ...

Brian: Sure. Well, the Hollie one...well obviously the one that's the topic right now is the Hollie Greig story, I've devoted six pages to that in the book as well and erm, you know, that is just an atrocious, an appalling case of erm, you know, these lawyers and especially, what is it, the Lord Advocate of Scotland erm, you know, covering up a story which is erm in the public interest. What I'd like to know is why these people don't rebut these allegations and they always feel that they have to cover them up.

Paul: Well, it's interesting you say that because I just published an article today where the sheriff of Scotland came out and er got a gag order against Robert Green. Now they're calling Robert Green who was a journalist, they're calling him like an attorney advocate, now the guy doesn't practise law he just writes articles. So they're trying to turn this into you know...I don't know...I me the more you cover something up the more people are gonna want...are going to ask questions. I mean, that's pretty much your experience isn't it Brian'

Brian: That's always the way, I mean I've experienced that here and in the USA as well. I mean, it's erm, you know, there's, there's...this goes on in every country of the world I'm afraid and it's seems that the more powerful the more rich these people are they can manipulate the lawyers to gag people and silence them. And erm, you know, that's the kind of an attitude that we thought that was prevalent say in Russia in the cold war days but this is happening in Britain which is supposed to be a free Western know, we know, we know it's not. And we don't want that attitude, we need openness, we need to be able to talk about these things.

Paul: Well here's a theory, you know, I'll throw this at yer. I think that the reason why this case has gotten so much publicity is simply it is a distraction erm, it's been a distraction. Not serves two covers up what the ...for the er, you know...for the McCanns but I think the second purpose is that, you know, there's gotta be a channel for emotion and for energy and er, when the government gives us er a release like in this case, you know, we can all spend money and donate money to the McCann fund you know, and we can go out and hang up posters looking for her...well, that's, that's ..all that is, is just a way for them to siphon off the energy that really, really need to be devoted towards exposing these people. Any comments on that'

Brian: Well the fund is certainly a mystery because the McCanns are directors of the fund, they've also got er Gerry's brother John who is the chairman of it and then you've got erm, Kate's uncle Brian, he's also a director. So you've got four family members on the board of directors there, you've also got Ed Smethurst, he's a 30 year Free Mason er, who's also the interesting thing is, the company, the law firm that set up the fund is probably Britain's, one of the er largest law firms representing Free Masons and Free Masons charities. Now they don't advertise them on their website. I found that through considerable research.

Paul: Interesting. So we're talking that the Free Masons are behind funding this er McCann fund'

Brian: Erm, well you know, the, the Bates Wells and Braithwaite law firm behind the Madeleine fund they're also the lawyers for the Grand Charity which is Britain's largest Free Masons charity so ...yeah, there's a clear business connection between a lot of Free Masonry involvement and the McCann Madeleine fund.

Paul: Okay, so we're going to take one more break here and er ...[snipped]

We've got a few minutes left here and er...Brian, I am definitely going to have you back on this show and er...go've got three minutes ...what else would you like to tell us'

Brian: Yeah, I'd like to just say a few words for the inspector Goncalo Amaral who erm, was as I say, he was pulled off the case and even Gordon Brown knew about that before he was fired. Erm, the, erm, inspector wrote a book called 'The Truth in the Lie' which was a best seller in Portugal where he, you know, he told us about some of the hidden details of the case. And in September of last year the McCanns filed an injunction in Portugal to have this inspector's book er banned from sale, and after the hearing in January and February of this year the judge actually er held a decision and the book is banned. His book, his opinions about his involvement in the police case and the McCanns have said they wanted the book banned because he is saying that she er Madeleine is dead and therefore people won't look for her if they believed she's dead. Erm, one of my websites I have an opinion poll of a 5,000 documented people where two out of three people believe she's dead anyway. So you know, it's er

Paul: they're going to do everything they can to suppress the truth, that's what this sounds like to me.

Brian: yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Paul: Everything. And the thing is it's not only them, it's the er British government

Brian: That's right

Paul: Once again, this is a huge outrage, there's things we can do and erm, we'll talk about that, first thing we need to do we need to get your article out er, get the article published and probably a series of articles and also promote your book so people can read this and er

Brian: Thank you

Paul:...there's other things we can of the things I..we can also do is create a petition for people to sign, demanding that... you know... these things er come out and demanding a criminal investigation into these things. I understand that erm, you know... I'm not... I personally couldn't care less about what people can do or what they want to do as far as threats and things like that ..erm, but I'm sure you've had some of that. Give me some idea of what kind of harassment you've had to put up with just to get this information out there.

Brian: Well I've been covering the case for three years now with my websites and I've had a lot of, I mean, I can vouch for a lot of say hate mail. You know, there's a lot of people who they don't want you to investigate this stuff you know, and you've got to query why would random people not be wanting you to investigate. You know, why was erm, Martin Smith the guy who saw a man that in, he later pronounced he's 80% sure he saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine in another part of the town late...on that night and er, you know, he hadn't come forward and er, somebody connected with the Madeleine fund contacted Martin Smith months after this appearance. You know, why are these witnesses being tampered with'

Paul: Yeah, so what we end up with is ...when he saw, saw the dad carrying Madeleine was she awake' Was she alive' I mean did he say anything about that at all'

Brian: Well in his testimony he initially told police he'd saw a man carrying a girl about ten to ten at night which was ten minutes before Kate supposedly alerted to say she'd disappeared and erm, you know, months later when Martin Smith saw Gerry disembarking off the plane carrying his son, that jogged his memory and he said 'that was the man that I saw!' He claims he's 80% sure in the police files

Paul: Wow. Well we, we sure appreciate you being on the air, we're gonna start er, helping you with the publicity on this and er...give us one more ..give us your web address one more time so people can buy this book.

Brian: Okay, yes, it's and er, the book is on sale.

Paul: Awesome. Well it was great having yer and er obviously I'm going to commit you to appearing again on the show so we can talk about this again in a little more detail.

Brian: yeah, I'd like to do that, thank you.

Paul: And er ... no problem...and er again this is er Steve Marsden who is the author of the book and the title of the book is...go ahead, it's all you...

Brian: Faked Abduction

Paul: Faked Abduction and the website you can go to get this book is ...


Paul:, I'll have that in the articles. So thank you very much for coming on the show and er I'm going wrap things up over the next ten minutes. Okay.

Brian: Okay. Appreciate it

Paul: thanks, bye.

Paul: So here we have, obviously there's quite a bit of evidence here that is not being presented or has not come out in the public and you know, you've's just a huge conspiracy and I wonder or not anything, any foul play took place here. There surely is enough evidence here for at least an inquest in Great Britain. Er we have the potential for fraud; we have the potential for erm, all kinds of bad things that er could be here. I mean, we're talking about er five million dollars erm, that's been raised for er...or five million pounds, I'm not sure which one, but er the point is, that's a ton of money er, I think some people deserve some accountability I mean, what have they done with this money' Where's it gone' Where did they spend it on' The other question is, why don' we have statements from the other children or other witnesses, why haven't they been interviewed' Why has er testimony been suppressed' The example is the gentleman who saw er reportedly saw erm the father of er Maddie carrying her around at the time she supposedly disappeared.

Er, we've got two cadaver one cadaver sniffing dog that alerted in the home, we've got one blood sniffing dog that alerted in the home, we've got er reportedly they detected blood spray pattern that would be consistent with some type of damage to the larynx or to the throat. Er, there's just tons of evidence there. And you know, Great Britain is ....[sighs] this is just another connection in the, you know, the big picture which is..I've been trying to convey on this show which is that we are...we've been literally taken by these satanic paedophiles and these people are Satanists. No one that worships God would do these kinds of things, would be involved in these kind of things er that we're seeing, what my colleague Greig, like what we're seeing with some of these other people that are out there and...we need your help. I mean, there's two petitions right no on my website that I need you to sign er, one has to deal with Hollie Greig and erm Mr Green, the journalist who just got gagged by the er sheriff who was one of the alleged abusers and er, the second one has to deal with editor Joseph Cannon in Utah here in the United States. Er Mr Cannon sat on a paedophile story er, a leading republican that just resigned from the Utah state house er, came out and admitted that he was naked in the hot tub with a 15 year old girl, who was 15 at the time. We don't know if she was 15 and I don't know if in fact their relationship started before that. We don't know. All we know is what they report and that was she was 15 at the time and that this allegedly happened. This poor girl is being [demonised '] by the Utah media right now, they're just beating her up because she came forward. And er, literally she has been successful in ending this er paedophile's career. We're talking an individual that is in one of the highest elected offices within the state of Utah.

Now as a Mormon, I can't tell yer how deeply offended I am that er this is being treated the way it is. You don't go after victims. You don't persecute people because they tell you er that someone in authority is doing things that are just egregious and I think this is going to turn into bad things, other bad things, other bad things are gonna come out because, you see, once one person has the courage to come out and tell a story then others will follow.

And already there's reports of another girl in Utah that was also er involved with this guy. And normally a paedophile will have anywhere between 30 to 40 victims for every one they get caught with.

Now getting back to Maddie, we have two witnesses that heard her dad, her father, with another gentleman talking about er sexual relationships with this little girl. And er, this is just, this is just unbelievable that this is being suppressed. And this book is probably one of the things, one of the greatest things this gentleman's done a ton of research and I really invite you to go through the articles that I'm going to be publishing over the next couple of days about this and I want you to take a look at this book, you know, acquiring it er, we need to support people like this. And er, we also need to support any efforts to bring justice to our children.

And with that said, erm, I wish you the best my friends. Remember God's in charge, not these people. These people are evil and evil has its bounds and limited in what it can do. God doesn't have any limitations. And just remember that and just keep everybody in your prayers, keep us in your prayers, keep Brian in your prayers and er, I promise you I'll do the same and with God's help we will not only expose these individuals but we'll drive them back into the darkness where they belong.



Today I was given the opportunity to ask Steve some direct questions concerning his new book. With reconciliation and explanation very much in mind he gave me this interview which I now publish.

1. What made you write the book'

The forums debating Madeleine's disappearance had dwindled in terms of numbers of those seriously interested in Madeleine's demise. More blogs were springing up to debate the debaters rather than the actual case. I had always been interested in the forensic aspects of the case and tussling with those more interested in forum disruption did not interest me at all. After I called it a day in the forums I thought I'd concentrate on writing a book. Around that time (September/October), Amaral's book was in limbo and I had exhausted negotiations on publishing that book in English out here in the USA. The publisher appeared to dawdle too long and we all know what happened after that. The prospect of publishing an English "Truth of the Lie" in the USA was all but gone. Faked Abduction was an idea that grew out of the prospect of there being no English book that would tell the story from an unbiased and propaganda free platform. With no "Truth of the Lie" in English it seemed the logical thing to do.

2. Why the long delay' Wasn't it supposed to come out in January'

Initially, my research said that most paperbacks of this type were typically in the region of 300-320 pages. Amaral's book was quite a "thin" 200 or so pages. I wanted more information than his book because a lot of time had passed since his book came out in the summer of 2008. We knew more information than Goncalo was able to put in his book and so I knew 300 or so pages would be more appropriate. Then with Christmas looming, it is always a good idea to try to release a product in advance of that season. However, the pressure of writing it to reach a seasonal deadline was crazy. I wanted a decent product, not a rush job. January seemed a better prospect but then a few other technical and logistical problems came up. The book-cover is a deep blue and was something I designed as an RGB image. Converting to CMYK for a printer meant those nice blue tones were lost. Anyone in the print industry would know that blue is a nightmare to deal with but all my graphic work is online so I didn't know this was a problem until late in the day. I eventually sorted this out and in the midst of it all, we had the Amaral trial in Lisbon. It seemed silly to not mention the outcome of this in the book so this was another reason to hold off for a few weeks. Also, like Amaral, I am subject to an illegal injunction in a lawsuit here in the USA. That was another distraction.

3. Why are some saying you plagiarised Amaral's book'

I have no idea. It would seem that the instigator of this was one Mr. Tony Bennett. In his February Madeleine Foundation newsletter, he recommended that nobody should buy Faked Abduction because he "learned" that it was a double-plagiarism of a work by a blogger called Anna (whatever a double-plagiarism means!). As nobody knew what my book was about, it is remarkable that Mr. Bennett, Antonella Lazzeri (writing in the Sun) and Clarence Mitchell all seemed to know its content before it was released. Mitchell we already know about but why the Madeleine Foundation circulated erroneous information and a recommendation not to buy it is something people should be asking them. This was a scurrilous and unfounded attack and probably stems from an aborted business deal I had proposed to Mr. Bennett in 2009 when I explored printing his 60-Reasons book in the USA where he wanted a 20% royalty paid directly to him instead of the Madeleine Foundation.

4. How did you choose what to put in and what to leave out'

This was tricky. In the end, my 320 pages were exceeded by over 300 more pages. I ended up removing 4 chapters consisting of 90 pages only days before printing and it ended up at 526 pages. I had to include the two well known controversies - Majorca 2005 and Mrs. Fenn's testimony - but also the foundation story of the abduction itself; the flawed jemmied shutter story. The dog evidence was also necessary but there are no references to "noise" - the sightings and other distractions that led the police on wild goose chases. The five photographs was always a big talking point and in terms of the Last Photo, I used some new software to analyse the image and the controversial findings are in the book. There are numerous references to many facts in the case but they are introduced as and when they needed to be cross referenced by other topics. There is a lot of indexing within the book and this took considerable time in the preparation of the final draft. Writing is one thing but styling and completing a book is a time consuming job.

5. What are you hoping for the book'

A lot of bloggers and serious forum posters have invested a lot of time and effort in this case because we have all showed concerns for justice in the past three years. I recognise them in the book and take my hat off to all the hours they have contributed to the cause. Without such great amateur support we would not be where we are today and the case would have melted away. We have all felt at times that the answer was just round the corner but it never has been. The massive smoke screen of propaganda has literally brainwashed a nation and had this case been in pre-Internet times, it would have faded away within weeks and been effectively covered up with hardly anyone batting an eyelid. The book is my own little contribution to justice and truth for Madeleine. I respect all the others out there doing their own bit in their own way and long may it continue. The repository websites...Pamalam's, McCannFiles, Joana Morais' blog etc. - they all get a mention and if the book can drive more traffic to them and interest a whole new set of people in reading about the case then great. Personally I think the Madeleine coverage on the Internet is analogous to Operation Desert Storm and its aerial bombardment campaign. As we saw in that military battle, Desert Storm eventually had to be conquered by troops on the ground to win the war and in this respect I think a book can do a job that the Internet cannot. Many people still want to read about this case in book form because they don't have time to sit in front of a computer for hours. As the first English book to properly question the abduction, I hope it revitalises interest in this massive government cover up.

6. Will there be any translations'

There are some people assisting or that have offered assistance with translations to Portuguese, German, Dutch and French. It would be nice to have those books printed locally in Europe to lower postage costs but they may have to be printed here in their respective languages. It depends on the amount of interest. I know Amaral's book sold well in Portugal and France but it didn't do much in Germany. It is always difficult to know how many books to print but there is scope to do all those four languages just mentioned.

7. Do you think the case will ever be solved'

I think the Madeleine case has the same chance of being solved as Dr. Kelly's murder and the real perpetrators of Omagh being brought to justice. In other words, very little chance. The corrupt nature of the British Establishment cover up is not something that is going to alter overnight because it is endemic. One has only to look at the Hollie Greig case to see how insidious these elite people are who cover their criminal tracks. I think the best thing we can hope for is to alert the general populace to the reality of the situation and try and undo a lot of the brainwashing - done so effectively by state owned or state manipulated press and media. As long as Joe Public believes the Team McCann propaganda it will be difficult to make a breakthrough. It really is a concern that Totalitarian Britain is now well on the way to being a Marxist regime and I'm sure we'll see a few more auto-erotic asphyxiations (a trademark MI5/MI6 assassination technique). It is quite alarming that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have both been accused by many of being paedophiles and yet neither have taken action to sue the accusers. One thing is certain: It is way past the time that that those Scottish paedophile allegations were dealt with properly once and for all. Blair, Brown Lord Robertson, Elish Angiolini, Sheriff Buchanan et al need to front up to some serious allegations.

The Book Contents
Here is the chapter listing:

British Establishment Cover-ups
Maddie: A Name the Media Invented
The Police Conclusions
How the Story Unfolded
Experts in Propaganda
The Locations and People
A Neighbor Hears Crying
An Obsession with Lawyers
The Five Photographs
Payne & McCann Allegations
Dogs Don't Lie
The Weekend of June 9 ' 10
McCanns on the Oprah Show
Letter to the Madeleine Fund
Gerry's Blogs and Kate's Diary
The Official Fund
The Arguido Interviews
Dealing with a Corpse
Flaws in Goncalo Amaral's thesis
Interesting Details from the Files
The Author's Conclusions


Appendix A: Timeline 2007-2010
Appendix B: Timeline May 3, 2007
Appendix C: Tavares Almeida's Report
Appendix D: Mark Harrison's Report
Appendix E: Martin Grime's Profile
Appendix F: Documentaries & Interviews
Appendix G: Kate Healy's Bible
Appendix H: Justice Hogg's Judgment

A few book Highlights:

Copious footnotes and cross references to verify sources
Correspondence from Peter McCann of Castle Craig about his relationship with Gerry McCann
The statements deliberately held back from the Portuguese police by Leicester Constabulary
The blatant discrepancies in the Tapas Nine witness statements
Jane Tanner's conflicting statements
Did Kate falsify legal documents'
Where did Goncalo Amaral go wrong'
Correspondence from the Masonic law firm entrusted with setting up Madeleine's Fund
Gordon Brown's wife and the fellow Bristol University graduate behind the Madeleine Fund
Information about other appalling British Establishment cover ups including Dunblane, Omagh and the recent shock Hollie Greig case

But remember'

According to Clarence Mitchell in the Sun newspaper on January 27, 2010, all the allegations in Faked Abduction are entirely untrue.

Find out for yourself

[Acknowledgement: .pamalam at gerrymccannsblog]

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 Empty Re: McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

Post by Verdi on 26.06.19 1:45

Gerry and Kate McCann 10th Anniversary Interview with Fiona Bruce - 3rd May 2017


Kate McCann - KM
Gerry McCann - GM
Interviewer - Fiona Bruce - FB

FB: Kate and Gerry, first of all, thank you very much for doing this interview. This is a very difficult time of year and it's the 10-year anniversary, obviously an anniversary you hoped you would never see.

KM: Yeah I mean I never thought we'd still be in this situation, so far along the line. It's a huge amount of time. In some ways it feels like it was only a few weeks ago, in other times it has felt really long. But it's a hard marker of time.

FB: And you've referred to it on your website as "stolen time"?

KM: Oh yeah, I mean it's time we should have had with Madeleine. We should have been a family of five for all that time. And yeah, it just feels stolen.

FB: And you can never have imagined, 10 years ago, that you would still be in this situation?

GM: I think the situation is that we tried everything in our power to not have a long protracted missing person case like this. It's devastating and we really threw ourselves into trying to do everything we could to help find her. It looks like that hasn't worked yet. But you know we are still looking forward, I think that's the most important thing - we still hope.

FB: And how are you doing as a family? The pair of you?

GM: I think we're doing a new normality, really, particularly over probably the last - and it seems like a long time saying it - but over the last five years. Since the Metropolitan Police actually started their investigation, it has taken a huge pressure off us, individually and as a family.

FB: Because before that you were trying to fight the case yourselves, trying to encourage the police to look for Madeleine, get the Portuguese police involved?

GM: Yeah I think the key thing was - and I suppose the injustice of it - was that after the initial Portuguese investigation closed, essentially, no-one, no-one else was actually doing anything pro-actively to try and find Madeleine. And I think every parent could understand that what you want and what we have aspired to is to have all the reasonable lines of enquiry followed to a logical conclusion as far as you can do that, and that was incredibly frustrating.

FB: You talked at the time about what a blow that was?

GM: It was terrible, it was horrible, and you know as much as we tried and (were) fortunate to have had so many donations into Madeleine's fund and to use that money to try and investigate, your hands are tied, you don't have the powers that law enforcement have.

FB: So how much of a difference has it made. So for the last five years, the police have actively been investigating?

KM: Huge

GM: Absolutely huge, I mean I can't emphasise enough just what a massive burden that has lifted from us, and those around us, and also knowing that the lines of investigation have been prosecuted. I know the Assistant Commissioner, Mr (Mark) Rowley, spoke during the week, but you know a lot of those lines have been taken to a conclusion and that's almost as important as finding who's actually responsible but knowing that those lines have been shut down.

FB: And the police have talked about one significant lead they are still pursuing, can you tell me anything about that?

GM: The investigation is in the hands of the Metropolitan Police, who clearly have on-going inquires and from our perspective that's the important thing.

KM: They've managed to pull so much together and sift through so much information, so now we do seem to be on just several lines of enquiry rather than tens/hundreds.

FB: And there are four officers working on it full-time. You know there have been criticisms that the police shouldn't be spending so much money, still, so many years on, on this case, what would you say to that?

GM: I think some of that criticism is really quite unfair actually, because I know it's a single missing child, but there are millions of British tourists that go to the Algarve, year-on-year, and essentially you've got a British subject who was the subject of a crime and there were other crimes that came to light following Madeleine's abduction, that involved British tourists so I think prosecuting it to a reasonable end is what you would expect.

FB: But of course it doesn't happen, sadly there are so many children that go missing and the resources are not deployed on their cases?

GM: Others within law enforcement have made it very clear, this type of stranger abduction is exceptionally rare actually and we need to put it into perspective and it's partly why Madeleine's case is attracting so much attention, thrown in with many other ingredients, but this type of abduction is exceptionally rare.

FB: One of the police officers in Portugal has been a thorn in your side for many years, he was thrown off the investigation but then he wrote a book, presented a documentary, presenting of you of what happened to Madeleine which implicates you, and you fought it through the courts. At the moment you've lost and he's won, is this the end for you now, are you going to continue to fight him?

GM: I think the short answer is we have to because the last judgment I think is terrible. So we will be appealing. We haven't launched that yet, but it will be going to the European courts. I think it's also important to say that when we lodged the action was eight years ago and the circumstances were very different where we felt there was real damage being done to the search for Madeleine at that time, particularly in Portugal.

FB: Because he was effectively suggesting that you were involved?

GM: I think, you know, what people really need to realise though is, you know, as Assistant Commissioner Rowley has said again this week, and the Portuguese have said in the final report - have said there's no evidence that Madeleine is dead and the prosecutor has said there's no evidence that we were involved in any crime and really that's - saying anything opposite isn't justice, it's not justice for Madeleine.

KM: I mean I find it all incomprehensible to be honest, it has been very upsetting, and it has caused a lot of frustration and anger which is a real negative emotion, and I think we just need to channel that and I just have to hope that in the long run that justice will prevail, and all will be well.

GM: And I think it's also important for us personally, but for the rest of the family as well.

FB: For your children?

GM: Yeah and our wider family, both parents, brothers and sisters etc, so - you know - we've got to challenge it, and we will do.

FB: The other thing that struck me when I was looking through various internet search engines before I did this interview was quite how much cruel, distressing, horribly tasteless commentary there is out there about you, about Madeleine. People giving their opinions about what they think happened, even though they don't know you. They were nowhere near, they can't possibly know. It's so hurtful for you, that that is out there - and for your children - how do you deal with that?

KM: I think the whole social media has got huge pros, but huge cons. On the downside, and all that's been written... I guess we protect ourselves really. We don't go there to be honest. We are aware of things that get said because people alert us to them. I guess our worry is for our children.

FB: Of course, because they are now 12, they are at an age where social media becomes increasingly important?

GM: I don't want to dwell on the negative aspects too long, but I think in this era of "fake news" it is extremely topical and I think people just need to think twice before what they write and the effects it has. Certainly I know ourselves with our own experience, both in the mainstream media and also on the internet, we just say I am not going to believe that until I see evidence of it. I'm sure it is a very small minority of people who spend their time doing it, but it has totally inhibited what we do. Personally, we don't use social media, although we have used it in Madeleine's campaign. But for our twins who are growing up in an era where mobile technology is used all the time, we don't want them not to be able to use it in the same way that their peers do.

FB: How do you protect them?

GM: We had some excellent advice early on. We have been as open with them as we can. We have told them about things and that people are writing things that are simply just untrue and they need to be aware of that. They're not really at the age where they are on the internet and other sites, but they're coming to that stage. They're in closed groups with their friends etc and that's important.

KM: I think we've tried to educate them a little bit as well because obviously it's not just us that has fallen victim to the downside of social media.

FB: Does it shock you? Because it has shocked me, certainly a little, the things that people say.

KM: I think it has been shocking... that aspect of human nature that I hadn't really encountered before. Because I think it's so far from how you would behave or people that you know would behave. It's been striking and quite hard really to get your head round. Because why would somebody write that? Why would somebody add to someone's upset - why would someone in a position of ignorance do something like that?

GM: I think we've seen the worst and the best of human nature. And our personal experience, rather than on the internet, has been overwhelmingly seeing the better side of human nature. And I think we need to remember that actually. We've had fantastic support over the last 10 years. And because there's a lot of media attention now around the 10th anniversary, we are starting to see that again as well.

KM: I think that's true. I think because things like social media, or (Goncalo) Amaral or whatever, because it's so awful and upsetting, it does kind of sometimes stand out more, it becomes more of a talking point. Whereas actually the main thing that we have experienced is the goodness of people and the support that we have had over 10 years, which hasn't wavered in all that time.

FB: How different is your life now? When you have a child, you consciously or subconsciously imagine your future and the future of that child. How different is your life now to that what you must have imagined all those years ago?

GM: I think before Madeleine was taken, we felt we had managed to achieve our little perfect nuclear family of five. And we had that for a short period and I suppose, almost the same way as if your child becomes ill or seriously ill, or has died, like many other families have suffered... then your vision is altered and you have to adapt. And I think that's a theme that speaking to other people who have gone through terribly traumatic processes with children and other loved ones, that is something that gradually happens, and you adapt and you have a new normality. And unfortunately for us a new normality is a family-of-four. But we have adapted and that's important. The last five years in particular has allowed us to really properly devote time to looking after the twins and ourselves and of course carrying on with our work. At some point you've got to realise that time is not frozen and I think both of us realise that we owed it to the twins to make sure that their life is as fulfilling as they deserve, and we have certainly tried our best to achieve that.

FB: On the face of it, you appear to have stayed so strong as a family unit. I just wonder how you have managed to do that? It's so easy to blame each other when a cataclysm befalls a family. That's such as easy trap to fall into.

KM: I don't think there has ever been any blame, fortunately. What people do say is that you don't realise how strong you are until you have no option. And I think that's very true. Obviously massive events like this cause a lot of reaction, a lot of trauma and upset. But ultimately you have to keep going - and especially when you have got other children involved. Some of that is subconscious I think - your mind and body just take over to a certain extent. But if you can't change something immediately, you have to go with it and do the best that you can. And I think that's what we have tried to do. As Gerry said, one of our goals - obviously ultimately finding Madeleine - was to ensure that Sean and Amelie have a very normal, happy and fulfilling life and we'll do everything that we can to ensure that.

FB: Life for you has changed in different ways Kate. You were a GP. You stopped working, you haven't gone back to full-time work. I assume the idea of someone else looking after your children seemed unthinkable after what happened - you just needed to be with the children and be there?

KM: Certainly initially, yes absolutely. The kids weren't even in school, I wanted to be there, I didn't want to let them out of my sight - there was obviously a lot going on, a lot of campaign work, a lot of emotion. I am actually back at work now. I am doing something different to what I was doing.

FB: What are you doing now?

KM: I am back into medicine but a different area to my general practice. So that obviously takes up some time - and again that was a big step to re-establish as normal a life as possible. Life's busy. I think in some ways, whether it's our personality or whether it's a coping strategy but sometimes it's almost a little bit too frenetic, but it keeps us going. I think we don't dwell too much on things unnecessarily so I think that's probably a self-protective thing there as well. We do have a very full life and as normal as we can make it.

FB: And how much do you make Madeleine a part of it, do you talk about Madeleine, is she a name that crops up every day? How do you manage that?

GM: I mean she's always still part of our life, there's photographs all round the house, this time of year, then we can't even have conversations that doesn't involve it, kids know we're doing the interview today, the anniversary is coming up, so she is still part of it.

KM: I think every kind of event that we do, whether it be a birthday or a family occasion or even an achievement or something that is kind of when you really feel her absence. It's slightly different to how it was in the early days, when everything we were doing was to find Madeleine, whereas now we are having to get on and live a life as well, but its not like any day she's not there, if you know what I mean.

FB: And last time we talked, you told me how you were still buying birthday presents and Christmas presents for Madeleine. With 10 years now, are you still doing that?

KM: I still do that yeah. You couldn't not.

FB: So you go around the shops and you think, Madeleine would have been this age now, and what would she want?

KM: I do, I do, that's it. I obviously have to think about what age she is and something that, whenever we find her, will still be appropriate so there's a lot of thought goes into it. But I couldn't not, you know, she's still our daughter, she'll always be our daughter.

GM: Because Kate does all the present-buying.

KM: I do all the present buying, and yep, they'll be another one coming up - you know - in the next few weeks.

FB: And Madeleine would be how old?

GM: Just coming up to 14.

FB: And this anniversary, how will you get through that day?

KM: I think like I put in my message on the website, every day is another day, without Madeleine. I think it's just that number, that 10-year mark, which makes it more significant I think - that is a reminder of how much time has gone by and obviously 10's a big number. I think we'll get by as we have any other year really, we'll be surrounded by family and friends, you know, obviously we'll be there remembering Madeleine, as we always have.

GM: I think the day and the poignancy of it, that we don't tend to go back to the time, because it's so draining but inevitably on anniversaries and her birthday they are by far the hardest days, by far.

KM: I think it is important though because despite how difficult these days are, just keeping in mind actually how much progress we have made and you know nothing's ever going to be quick enough from our point of view but the last five years, we've come a long way and there is progress and there are some very credible lines of enquiry that the police are working on and whilst there's no evidence to give us any negative news, you know, that hope is still there.

FB: It really is there in your hearts, the hope that one day you'll be reunited with your daughter?

GM: No parent is going to give up on their child, unless they know for certain their child is dead, and we just don't have any evidence.

KM: My hope for Madeleine being out there is no less than it was almost 10 years ago, I mean apart from those first 48 hours nothing has actually changed since then, I mean - I think the difficult thing has always been how will we find her because you're relying on the police doing everything they can, and you're relying on somebody with information coming forward.

GM: I think that that is so important, that everyone thinks what could have happened, but some of the scenarios with other people that have been abducted and kept, is just so unbelievable that you think 'how could that have happened' and that is probably what is going to happen with Madeleine's case as well, that people will go 'that's incredible, how did that happen - we just don't know'.

KM: I think Assistant Commissioner Rowley underlined that last week: that you can't apply normal logic to someone who commits a crime like this - because you try and think, 'well, surely if they'd have done that, they'd done that and therefore' - but you can't.

FB: But you must also look at cases, in the case of Ben Needham who went missing in Greece, decades past and even now it's not entirely resolved, it's thought that he died very soon after he left the house but it's not known.

GM: That's interesting though you know, the people who've got the most experience are the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in the United States, and one of the earliest things that stuck with me ever since then is the younger that at the time a child is taken, the more likely they've been taken to be kept, and that could equally apply to Ben Needham who was younger than Madeleine so that's something we have to factor in actually.

FB: Which in one way could be a relief, but in another way is an unconscionable thought for you?

GM: It is, and it's 10 years, and how much has she changed and where would she be now, so, but I think the key thing is is to find Madeleine, she's still alive, recognise who she is, or we need to find the person or the people responsible for taking her.

FB: You must have imagined over the years - if you saw her, do you know what you'd say to her, how your lives would change?

KM: Yeah I think I try not to go there too often to be honest it's one of those real bitter-sweet kind of thoughts, yeah, I mean, I can't imagine, 10 years is a long time, but ultimately we're mum and dad, she's our daughter, she's got a brother and sister, grandparents and lots of family and friends you know.

So it would be absolutely fine, it would be - well - it would be beyond words really. We'll cope with anything.

FB: Now, I know doing this interview was something you thought long and hard about, not something you particularly want to do, certainly not something you were looking forward to, what do you hope by doing an interview like this, what do you hope people will hear, what's the message you want to get out?

GM: I think, that there is still hope really, there isn't a new appeal, most of the media that we've done in the previous years is usually around that - so this is unusual. So, we are marking the anniversary. I think it's been good for the general public to hear police say there's no evidence that she's dead, and that there is still an active investigation, and there is still hope. So certainly from my point of view, somebody knows what's happened.

KM: I think you know we've had so many supporters who, I say, are still with us, people that we don't know who are still there and I guess I just want them to be reassured that there is progress being made. It might not be as quick as we want, but there's real progress being made and I think we need to take heart from that and we just have to go with the process and follow it through, whatever it takes for as long as it takes. But that there is still hope that we can find Madeleine.

FB: And if you do find Madeleine you'll be able to show her everything you did to try and find her. You never gave up?

KM: Absolutely. And how many people have been there willing her home.

FB: Is there anything else you would like to say?

KM: I think that is one of the positives, we were talking about the amount of money, and I used to feel really embarrassed when people used to say about the amount of money, but then you realise that other big cases, like Stephen Lawrence, these cases cost a huge amount of money. I guess the one thing, because you always do feel guilty as the parent of a missing child - that other families haven't had the publicity and the money, and I know there's reasons why that happened, but I guess the positive is that it has certainly brought the whole issue of missing children to the forefront and I think people have benefited in many different ways, really. Because of that. I know the charity Missing People has had a lot of attention, haven't they and all the families have come together I think it's just highlighted it, made people more aware, and those families have had more support from each other.

FB: A small silver lining. A tiny little sliver of one. Let's end it there.

[Interview transcript the Daily Mirror]

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 Empty Re: McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

Post by Verdi on 27.06.19 1:36

Gerry McCann at the IBA Madrid Annual Conference October 06, 2009

McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 InternationalBarAss

Gerry McCann speaks at the IBA annual Conference

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Gerry McCann speaks at IBA Annual Conference, Madrid
Gerry McCann, father of missing British girl Madeleine McCann, was the keynote speaker at an IBA Annual Conference session of the Media Law Committee. He spoke about his relationship with the media and media law over the past two years.

Other high profile speakers at the session included Herman Croux, Roger Mann, Julian Porter, Kelli Sager, Paul Tweed and Adam Tudor.
The session was chaired by Mark Stephens and Nigel Tait.

Watch video
Read Gerry McCann’s speech

Nigel Tait, session co-chair: I’m delighted to introduce our panel of speakers to you, all of whom are acknowledged experts in the field of media law. First we have Herman Croux from Brussels in Belgium. Herman has acted as an adviser to the Belgian Government on constitutional and judicial reform and was an assistant professor at the University of Lervin. Herman is a regular speaker at international conferences and is chair of the Copyright and Entertainment Law Committee of the IBA. He has been involved in many notable cases including the constitutionality of The Protection of Journalists’ Sources Act before the Constitutional Court.

Then we have Doctor Roger Mann from Hamburg in Germany. Roger is a specialist in defamation litigation and acts for national magazine and newspaper publishers as well as for politicians and chief executive officers. Recently he’s acted for the Quant family and Susan Clatton, who are the main shareholders in BMW, over reports about an attempted blackmail.

From Toronto in Canada, I’m pleased to introduce Julian Porter QC who was called to the bar in 1964 and has practised litigation ever since. Julian has defended many of Canada’s leading writers, publishers and magazines and has acted for a large number of plaintiffs, suing newspapers and television stations. Julian has also produced two excellent conference papers which can be found on the IBA in Madrid conference website; one on the libel case brought by Richard Desmond against Tom Bauer and one dwelling on the deadpan humour of a British judge in the privacy case of Max Mosley against the News of the World.

Our next panellist is Kelli Sager from Los Angeles in California. Kelli is one of the only two lawyers in the United States to have been given the prestigious star ranking by the Chambers USA guide in the field of first amendment law and she represents the whole spectrum of media defendants including claims for libel, breach of privacy, reporters’ shield laws and internet law.

Next from Belfast and Dublin we have Paul Tweed. Paul has practised as a media lawyer for over 30 years and is well known in the United Kingdom for acting for high profile Hollywood personalities such as Britney Spears and Harrison Ford, who on one view instructed Paul to clear their names of false allegations, well, but on another view represent libel tourists who exploit claimant friendly UK libel laws. But one sure way of telling that Paul is an accomplished lawyer is the fact that he also represents the selfsame journalists and newspapers that he has sued on behalf of claimants, but not at the same time!

Also joining us today is Adam Tudor who successfully represented our key note speaker today, Gerry McCann, against the British press, and who can tell and talk about legal aspects of the case. My co-chairman today is one of the most well known lawyers in the United Kingdom. When I suggested to The Times newspaper that they write an article on what has happened to all the great characters in the British legal profession, we struggle to think of anyone other than Mark Stephens who could lay claim to such a title. Mark is a highly experienced lawyer, having won the case of Jameel and the Wall Street Journal, Europe, in the House of Lords for the defendant; a case on responsible journalism which most, if not all of us who practise in this area in the law, thought was a sure-fire winner for the claimant, but Mark nevertheless won for the defendant.

Our keynote speaker today is Mr Gerry McCann whose daughter, Madeleine, so tragically disappeared from a holiday apartment in Portugal in May 2007. Four months later, Madeleine’s parents were named as arguidos or persons of interest by the Portuguese police, sending the British media, in particular, into a frenzy of wild speculation and such speculation continued even beyond 21 July, 2008 when the Portuguese police lifted the McCann’s arguidos status and confirmed that there was no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Mr and Mrs McCann were involved in the disappearance of their daughter.

We so often hear, and rightly so, about the importance of a free press and our friends in the United States jealously guard the First Amendment protection given to the press and to their citizens, but seldom do we hear from those caught in the spotlight of publicity and I’m extremely grateful to Mr McCann for agreeing to be our keynote speaker today. Mr McCann will stay for questions but now I would like him to tell you his story. Thank you very much.

Gerry McCann: Thank you, Nigel, and I’m very glad to see that the title says I’m the keynote speaker because this certainly isn’t a lecture. I don’t have any specific knowledge of the law in the United Kingdom and any other jurisdiction although I’ve had more than a lifetime’s worth of dealing with lawyers over the last two and a half years. So I’m very much speaking regarding our own personal experience of the trauma that we’ve been caught up in.

I think Nigel’s already pointed out some of the main facts. We were on holiday on the 3 May 2007 when Madeleine was abducted from the apartment we were sleeping in. The world media really had descended on Praia de Luz within 24 hours and generally during those first two to three, four months or so, it was incredibly supportive and I’ll touch on that in some detail. Towards the end of August, in particular around the time when we were declared arguidos, then we had some of the most vile media reporting probably, certainly in the history of British journalism. And in 2008 we had several libel claims for defamation, and invasion of privacy. Later that year, as Nigel says, the file was closed and the Portuguese judiciary concluded that there is no evidence to support any of the allegations against us and we have continued and ongoing action within Portugal, which I’m not going to speak of very much because it’s still in the judicial process.

This is a brief outline of the talk, and I’ll probably speak for about 20 minutes. I want to first of all talk about decisions and whether to interact with the media or not. It’s not compulsory. I’ll talk about a strategy which we tried to employ. We’ll show some of the supportive press coverage and I will show you some of the front page headlines which caused us to take action and the results of that legal redress. And I’ll conclude with just a few minutes really about some thoughts and our experiences and recommendations or suggestions which is up to the legal profession and the judiciary whether they act on of course.

Interacting with the media

The first thing to say is that you know, it’s not compulsory; I think most people feel that when they’re caught up in a trauma, that they should interact with the media. Any parent in this audience will understand the complete devastation that we felt when we discovered Madeleine was gone, and particularly within the first few hours when the search around the vicinity of Praia de Luz found no trace of her, and we felt completely devastated. And in the early hours of the morning we phoned family and close friends to tell them of what happened. And I think the feeling of helplessness that Kate and I had was magnified by the distance of our loved ones and what they felt, that they couldn’t do anything for us. And actually several people independently contacted the media to tell them what had happened and in fact a very close friend was already distributing photographs of Madeleine to all the major news outlets in the early hours of the morning, which we didn’t know.

One thing we were discussing last night over dinner; it was interesting that the only news organisation that actually refused to publish the photograph was the BBC who came back saying ‘how do we know this is true, and who are you to distribute the photograph?’ Every other news outlet took it straight away and by the early hours of the morning it was already on our breakfast television in the UK. By the time Kate and I returned from the police station about 9 o’clock at night, there were approximately 200 journalists in Praia de Luz.

I can’t say for certain what factors were influencing this intense media interest within 24 hours of her abduction. I think the fact that it was a foreign child abducted on holiday certainly played a key part. The only other case we can think of in the United Kingdom was of Ben Needham, who was abducted in 1991 on a Greek island. And we don’t know of any other cases involving British children taken whilst on holiday, so that certainly played a part. The fact that we were doctors seemed to influence things and that this had happened to professional couple and I think Madeleine’s picture herself that she was such a beautiful innocent young girl who was taken and clearly many of the journalists involved felt a great deal of empathy with us as well.

Clearly the holiday company saw this media needed to be managed and engaged Bell Pottinger straight away and they sent out their head of crisis management, Alex Woolfall, to deal with the media. They also provided to us trauma counselling, which was very, very important in how we dealt with the situation. And we had counselling sessions within 36 hours of this happening and I have to say it played a tremendous part in helping me cope with the situation and try to do things to influence the outcome. I’d like to play a video, if we can get this.

Video: ‘One cannot describe the anguish and despair that we are feeling as the parents of our beautiful daughter, Madeleine. We request that anyone who may have any information related to Madeleine’s disappearance, no matter how trivial, contact the Portuguese police and help us get her back safely. Please, if you have Madeleine, let her come home to her mummy, daddy, brother and sister. As everyone can understand how distressing the current situation is, we ask that our privacy is respected to allow us to continue assisting the police in their investigation. Thank you.’

Read Gerry McCann’s speech

Gerry McCann: That video’s from about 9.30 pm on the 4th of May and I wanted to show it because I think even at that stage when I saw the media it filled me with dread about the potential intrusion of privacy, but I also saw it as an opportunity of helping the search, and the salient point, I haven’t seen that video for at least 18 months, and it brought back to me, the salient points of which we were trying to achieve; to get information into the investigation, which we still strive to do, as Madeleine is still missing, secondly, to let as many people as possible, know that Madeleine is missing, and thirdly, even though in that first night we were already concerned about intrusion of privacy, and I think I’ll show you in the following slides that we had very good reasons to be concerned.

So the primary objectives were to get the best possible investigation so when I put the slide up showing that we were talking about the campaign strategy, much of it was not media related, and so we had very early contact with the UK foreign office and other government officials striving to get the best possible investigation. We had to look at getting information into the enquiry and after the first few days when Madeleine was not discovered in the vicinity of the Algarve, then we had to think okay, where could she have been taken, and that influenced the decisions in which countries to visit and try and target so Spain’s a neighbouring country to Portugal, so one of the first things that we did was we got a message to David Beckham, asking him to do an appeal. He was playing for Real Madrid in this very city at the time and he agreed to that and did a very emotional appeal. And that had an amazing effect on the overall campaign because he was such a worldwide superstar and it seemed to have a snowball effect.

We took advice from the crisis management team and Alex Woolfall was absolutely brilliant. What he said to us was that for any media that you do, you must clearly define what your objective is from doing the media and secondly, ask yourself the question, how is it going to help, and that helped us tremendously with our future press conferences, statements and photo calls. We also did a number of TV and magazine interviews, I have to say, mainly at the request of the media, and that is one of the times where Alex would say you’re just feeding the beast. We subsequently had a public audience with the Pope and we had visits to Spain appealing for information and help and also we went to Germany and the Netherlands who make up the largest group of tourists to the Algarve, after the British and Irish, and we also visited Morocco which is obviously not far across the Mediterranean.

This early media coverage was generally very, very supportive. The largest weekly newspaper in the United Kingdom, the News of the World, had got a number of celebrities to agree to contribute to an award and £1.5 million was pledged. Additionally we had a businessman from Scotland who pledged another £1 million. There was, without doubt, unprecedented public interaction.

There were a huge amount of posters put up all over the United Kingdom and further afield and generally there was a focus on trying to find Madeleine and/or her abductors. The poster in the middle was released with JK Rowling’s last Harry Potter book and at the time, particularly in those first few weeks, I would say that the normal media rivalry between different organisations was put to one side and there was a real feeling that people would not let such tragic crimes happen again and that we really were going to make a difference and try and find Madeleine.

I think, I don’t expect you to read all of this, but this was an editorial in a larger selling daily newspaper in the United Kingdom, The Sun, which was printed the day after we did our first TV interviews which was more than three weeks after Madeleine was abducted and I would just like to point out the very bottom line and it says The Sun is proud, with other newspapers, to play our part in their hunt, meaning Kate and I’s hunt, for Madeleine and that summed up the general feeling at the time.

However, we even early on, realised there were a number of drawbacks of having such intense media coverage. There was a voracious, almost insatiable appetite for new stories in relation to Madeleine and actually the media were generally operating in a vacuum because of Portugal’s judicial secrecy laws and that the police weren’t allowed to speak directly to the media. We didn’t want to give too much information regarding exactly what happened and the timeline, for two reasons; one, fear of breaking the judicial law and secondly, we didn’t want the abductor to know information or put it in the public domain that only that other person could know.

Within weeks we already saw that there was a focus in the media coverage. There was a switching of attention away from Madeleine and it started to become the Kate and Gerry show. There was intense pressure to do media, which I have to say would have been for media sake, which we tried to resist. And it also became clear to us that Madeleine stories were selling newspapers and that there had to be a Madeleine story and she was becoming a commodity and people were starting to forget that she was a real child.

In June 2007, after we completed our visit, we tried to signal a change in our strategy. We appointed a campaign manager and her role was not directly a spokesperson. We anticipated that the media interest would naturally dwindle and the role was really about ensuring that we could maintain a search in the long term. We also signalled that Kate and I would not be making regular press statements or conferences and we asked the media to no longer photograph our two-year-old twins. We hadn’t asked for that immediately, primarily because I just didn’t think it was enforceable, given the huge amount of media attention and particularly in another country. We might have managed it in the UK but even I doubt it there.

Towards the end of August and September 2007 there was really quite a dramatic change in the media coverage. We were declared arguidos, which the closest thing in UK law is a person of interest and what that allows you to do is have a lawyer present during interviews. And it means that the police have to ask you questions in which your answers may incriminate yourself and as witnesses you’re not allowed to have a lawyer present and you must answer all questions. So being given the status of arguidos is actually to protect your own legal interest, and whereas that was just translated as suspects, and very much led to a number of damaging headlines.

There were multiple headlines that accused us either of directly killing Madeleine or being involved in disposing of her body and you can imagine how distressing this was when we were trying to ensure that there was an active and ongoing search and clearly we felt if people believed these stories, particularly in Portugal and further afield, then there could be no search, if people believed Madeleine was dead.

I’m just going to spend a minute or two showing you some of the front page headlines that were printed in the United Kingdom press. I would also like to point out that Amelie, who’s being carried by Kate here’s face is not pixelated so suddenly as we were declared arguidos it was okay to have our children’s photographs published on front page of newspaper again with millions of circulation, put on the internet: the multiple references to DNA in the cars, hair.

So when we came back to United Kingdom we felt that we had to do that to protect ourselves from the intrusion. We did try and combat these negative stories and really we had a trial by media at this point. The criminal lawyers who were appointed to defend us had multiple visits to the editors of all the national newspapers along with our spokesperson. And I can tell you that they assured the editors that there was not a shred of evidence to back up these wild allegations. There was a letter from the chief constable of Leicestershire police who was leading the investigation from the United Kingdom end, urging restraint in the coverage and emphasising that many of the stories that were published, had no grain of truth to them.

We also had further discussions with the Press Complaints Commission about how we may stop such coverage but despite these actions, the front page headlines continued and the previous ones all happened within a week of us coming back from Portugal. These ones are later. We are now into October and DNA reference once again; further ones in October. Now into the end of November and getting increasingly bizarre and ultimately in the space of five days, there were three front page headlines in January of 2008, that were regurgitating the same stories and for us, we come to breaking point. And at that point, although we’d had discussions earlier with Carter Ruck and Adam Tudor who’s here today, we felt enough is enough and we agreed to issue complaint letters against the worst offender and we also got an agreement from Carter Ruck that if the case did go to court, then they would represent us on a conditional fee arrangement, which was very important to our decision to press the button. The letters of complaint requested the removal of online versions of the articles, full apologies and we asked for damages and of course costs.

After an initial short wrangle, the newspapers did not defend these complaints and they did not argue for defence of truth of responsible journalism, which we were advised would have stood very little chance in a court of law. The complaints were settled out of court to our satisfaction and I have to say that we had unprecedented front page apologies and additionally a statement was read out in front of the judge in the London’s High Court.

A total of £550,000 paid in damages by one publisher alone, which was at our request, paid directly into Madeleine’s fund. This is the fund that we set up to help the search and we were told that the sum reflected the amount of damages the distress would have caused us. And there were certainly discussions that if this had gone to court, we could have argued for exemplary damages and to be honest the QC whose counsel we took, suggested that the damages we could have got would have been much, much higher than what we accepted but the most important thing for us was to get this out and to stop the coverage. And that was a main motivation for doing it. Additionally the seven friends who were on holiday with us, who had many similar allegations of being involved in a cover-up, were awarded £375,000 which they agreed also to pay into Madeleine’s fund, and we had a further small settlement with one other publisher.

Without a doubt there was an effect of these successful complaints. There was massive TV coverage and in some of the news channels it was the main news item that day. Although there was lots of press present at the High Court reading, there was rather less coverage in the newspapers, which is not surprising. Subsequent to that, I would have to say there was a dramatic effect with much more cautious and responsible reporting. And one of our concerns was obviously whether we would have burned our bridges with the media and we would no longer get co-operation when we wanted them to put information out but that has not been the case. There is still tremendous amount of appetite when we helped the media to help us get messages to the general public.

We mentioned invasion of privacy and clearly we couldn’t stop being photographed. On the very first night, the tour operators asked us if we wanted to go to a villa and I said I felt that would be worse. We’d be completely hemmed in with all the media at the end of a drive and we did stay in a holiday complex and it did allow us to move around. However when we returned home, we had news journalists and paparazzi at the end of our drive for several months, ramming cameras into the car, including when the twins were in it.

Even early on there seemed to be a complete blurring of what would be considered our public persona, doing things that related to Madeleine, and what was private so we were followed around, followed on the beach. The children were being followed and photographed, and even when we tried to get away from it all, there were surreptitious journalists trying to obtain photographs on us on our first holiday without Madeleine and they did manage to find us at the airport when we were returning home.

The Press Complaints Commission in the UK generally have been helpful in enforcing protecting the privacy of our children and that’s something that I’m not sure exists in other countries as well. The greatest violation of our invasion of privacy was the publication of Kate’s, translation of Kate’s journal, which was seized during the initial police investigation. And actually there is a judge’s order in the Portuguese file which ordered the destruction of all copies of the journal as being of no interest to the investigation. And this article, front page, with several pages, word for word of the journal was published inside, was done without our consent, and we very rapidly complained. That journal was written for Madeleine and for our other children and I cannot tell you how distressing it was for Kate to be told that it had been published. That complaint was settled, I have to say quickly, with the publishers who had been supportive up to that point generally.

I’d just like to finish with a few thoughts: If I was asked to go back and would I have interacted with the media in the same way then the answer would have been almost completely yes. We did it with the best intentions. Our hope was to get the best possible search and in fact we will continue to interact with the media if it’s appropriate. With hindsight, I would have made a clearer boundary and withdrawn from allowing the media to photograph us doing anything that was not Madeleine related in public. And again with hindsight, although we were absolutely certain when it came to it, that we were ready to take action, with hindsight we should have taken action earlier, against the newspapers in the UK for publishing these stories.

These really are just some thoughts for the future rather than anything that may be enforced in law, but we do know, and the media know, that they’re incredibly powerful. In the past they’ve been showing it by displaying images and they can help find children and that was why we chose to interact with them. However they have the potential to destroy lives and if we had not been supported as well as we had, by many different people including Carter Ruck, then they could have destroyed our lives and what was already seriously damaged.

So with such power comes marked responsibility. I think it is extremely important that ordinary people like ourselves do have the right to legal redress and I’m not sure that we could have gone through with these complaints against large organisations without the safety net of a conditional fee arrangement and that is certainly something that I think within the UK, should continue. And I’d like to ask for an appeal to the media, to remember that at the centre of every tragic story there are real people and real children and real families and we are not characters. Thank you.

[Acknowledgement: pamalam at gerrymccannsblog]

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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 Empty Re: McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

Post by Verdi on 27.06.19 13:08

Madeleine Was Here:  Cutting Edge Show - 7th May 2009


K: I did my check about 10.00 ‘clock and went in through the sliding patio doors and I just stood, actually and I thought, oh, all quiet, and to be honest, I might have been tempted to turn round then, but I just noticed that the door, the bedroom door where the three children were sleeping, was open much further than we’d left it. I went to close it to about here and then as I got to here, it suddenly slammed and then as I opened it, it was then that I just thought, I’ll just look at the children and I could see S and A in the cot and then I was looking at M’s bed which was here and it was dark and I was looking and I was thinking, is that M or is that the bedding. and I couldn’t quite make her out. It sounds really stupid now, but at the time, I was thinking I didn’t want to put the light on cos I didn’t wanna wake them and literally, as I went back in, the curtains of the bedroom which were drawn,… were closed, … whoosh … It was like a gust of wind, kinda, just blew them open and cuddle cat was still there and her pink blanket was still there and then I knew straight away that she had, er, been taken, you know.

Voice over: It’s now 2 years since MM was abducted while on holiday in Portugal. Her parents, K&G live near L with M’s brother and sister, four year old twins, S&A.

G: We are a family, and we’re a happy family, but we are not a complete family.

KM: I think we’re far from normality. We’re far from normality but we’re closer than we were.

K is painting the names of the three children.
She asks the children what is the name of their sister. One of the children says the full name and the other child says the shortened version.

K: I honestly believe they’re expecting her to come home, you know, one day soon. They are very much, well, when Madeleine comes back, we’ll share our toys and, you know, A is wearing Madeleine’s shoes. She’ll say well these shoes won’t fit M, now, so we’ll have to take her and get her a bigger pair of shoes when she gets home. You know.

Voice over: K has given up her work as a GP and now stays at home with the twins.

K: A lot of the places that I go now ,I used to go with Madeleine as well, so there’s little things that trigger, (mumble) like on the farm where we go quite a lot. You know, I can see Madeleine swinging on the rope in the hayloft. She was great, she was only three and she’d be like, you know, swinging backwards and forwards, you know. I can see her in the little, sort of, gypsy wagon that they had, asking me to come in and that’s hard. You get memories and reality hits in again.

It’s like kinda, of, um, tangible void, really.

Voice over: G has returned to work at GH, where he is a consultant cardiologist.

G: Given the indefinite nature of what we are going through, you have to, at some point, say, I’m going to go back.

Voice of Interviewer: Do you think you have both healed a bit.

G: Healed is a diffi…adapted, I think, is probably the right word. There’s still, there’s a scar, a deep, deep scar there, that’s, kinda, knitted at the minute but you still think it might break or come loose and stitches (mumble) But, it is, er, definitely an er… adaptation. I think.

G: There’ll always be a hope, you know, we’re living with this carrot, that potentially she could come back and I think, that makes it more painful, that you don’t know and that she’s, she’s, she’s out there and separated from you It’s less raw, erm, less painful on a day to day basis, erm, but, it’s still pretty painful. (Sighs) Erm, it’s different.

Voice over: The second anniversary of M’s disappearance is approaching. K&G want to use the media attention to keep the search in the public’s mind.

K: (in their study). It almost feels like the last, I guess, media opportunity. We really need to think about that, to get the right message out.

Voice over: (very briefly, showing part of fm (download poster page ). The M’s are organising a series of events aimed at prompting fresh evidence, including a difficult trip back to the holiday resort.

Voice over continues: A national TV appearance in the States and perhaps, most crucially a visit to the world’s leading child recovery expert. (shows E A). EA says we truly believe (shows the picture) this is what MM looks like today. Shows new image.

G: She’s either out there or she’s not and there’s nothing to say that she’s not out there alive. So it’s simple, she’s out there until proven otherwise.

Voice of Interviewer: Who actually is looking for M at the moment?

G: Er, hopefully, lots of people, er, in the general population, but in terms of an investigative strategy, then there’s no law enforcement agency that is proactively doing anything. It’s pretty amazing really. Er, when you think about, it’s a very serious crime and, erm, we’ve got to do it.

G: We’re not out making a fuss for the sake of it or to say, things were done badly or could have been done better. That’s not what we’re interested in. We’re not interested in looking back. What we want to do is look forward.

Voice over: But there are two men still looking for Madeleine, ex-Detective Inspector DE is the senior Investigating Officer. He works alongside former Detective Sargeant A C. Both are now employed by the fm fund.

AC: …given a really good description and what I’ve done is, I’ve made arrangements to go and see him on Tuesday morning.

DE: I’ve inherited an investigation which is 18 months’ old. It’s a massive investigation.

AC: For me, it’s quite simple, whether it be a high profile murder or any investigation. It’s a jigsaw puzzle and it’s just the case of putting little pieces in and that’s what we’re doing. You start at the beginning, you do the basics right and everything else comes together. and that’s what, we, hopefully, we’ve done.

DE: One of the hypothesis would be, that it’s the parents that have done it, and it goes without saying, that’s looked at and I’m sure K&G understand that. If, we had any evidence that K&G were involved, we would hand it over to the authorities.

Voice of Interviewer:: and did you find anything?

DE: No, nothing, not a shred of evidence that they were involved.

AC: When I had the interview for the job, I made it quite clear that I would only take the job, if it was an independent investigation and if there’s evidence against anybody, no matter who it is, that we give that evidence to the police.

Voice of interviewer: Do you work with different theories about what happened? Can you say what you think happened?

DE: Well, the abduction theory is the main one that we’re focusing on. If a stranger kills a child or anyone for that matter, they almost, almost always dump the body within a very close proximity of the crime scene. Now this particular area around PdL has been systematically searched. The search was started on the night and continued for weeks and weeks and no body’s been found, so that gives me hope.

Voice of Interviewer: What about if it was dumped in the sea? I mean that’s what most ….

DE: That’s always possible of course. But, again, the sea quite often, you know, gives up the bodies. But no bodies have been found. So, I think that abduction is the most likely motive. Most likely done by an individual on their own. Most likely, an individual who has close links with PdL, which is why we focused all our efforts really, or most of our efforts, certainly on PdL.

Voice over: Out of the hundreds of witnesses who came forward, only a handful are from the local Portuguese community. These are the people the investigators want to hear from so they plan to return to PdL and reconstruct key events surrounding M’s disappearance. Hoping to provoke a response.

K: They used to come and just sit and get a haircut. (laughs). Seems hard to believe it’s actually busier now then it was a year ago.

Voice of Interviewer:: Has the balance changed, because you’re not working in paid work. You’ve worked for most of your adult life.

K: Women adore cooking and washing, anyway don’t they? (laughs)

Voice of Interviewer: So, yes, that hasn’t changed?

K: I don’t think so. It’s funny, cos, you know, going back a few years, if I hadn’t been in paid work, I’d have probably felt, a bit guilty. But, now, what I’m doing is the most important job that I’ll every have to do and I think my work is incredibly valuable.

Voice over: When the Portuguese police shelved the case last summer, they released 30,000 case files, K has spent the last six months going through every document.

K: The vast bulk of it was in Portuguese. So, we then, had to get it all translated, which probably cost us about £100,000. I don’t believe anybody’s got the motivation that I have and I was desperate to go through this myself, because I knew that I’d be going through it with a fine toothcomb and I have spent months and months and months and months going through it, evenings, weekends. You know, you wanna go through it really, really quickly because I wanted to get all the information I can and know what I can do, to help find her, as quickly as possible. So, obviously, I just worked really hard, just to get through it. Often, you know, police do say the name’s in the files. It was always there, but you just need other bits of information, really, to come in to basically highlight the name. At the moment, there isn’t a big arrow and an astrix (sic) by the name.

Voice over: The most likely sighting of M and her abductor was by JT, a friend of the Mc’s. In the files, K believes another witness statement from an Irish family, describes a very similar sighting to JT’s. Less than a mile from the Mc’s apartment.

K: The reason why this is significant is, both sightings were given independently. So, when this family gave their statement they weren’t aware of J(T)’s description and there’s actually quite a lot of similarities and it does beg the question, I mean, how many people carry their children on a cold night, not covered, you know. Nothing on their arms, or their feet, no blanket. Now, either there’s been two people carrying children that way, who haven’t come forward to eliminate themselves or potentially they’re related.

Voice of Interviewer: But, you think that child is M?

K: I think it’s a good chance it could be M. Certainly, the description there, sounds to me, like M.

Voice over: K and the fm campaign co-ordinator travel to the search team’s offices. They want to discuss the details of the upcoming reconstructions and three potentially key witness statements, that all tell of a man hanging around the Mc’s apartment in the days leading up to May 3 2007.

DE: The most important one, apart, obviously, from Jane, is sighting No. 3, the man in the alleyway at the back of the apartment. No.3 is definitely a very important sighting cos it links them.

Voice over: The investigators have examined the statements from the three different witnesses and are now convinced that prior to M’s abduction, the Mc’s were being watched. The team hope this new information will give them the breakthrough they need.

DE: You’d think, it’s gotta be the same person, wouldn’t you, really?

AC: and all three say he was watching the apartment.

DE: We’re here to discuss the pending reconstruction that we want done.

K: So, basically, it looks like we’ve got five sightings, really. Two, a man with a child and three, just a suspicious individual.

DE: Yeah

K: and three, the three with the suspicious, suspicious, of the suspicious (she seems to have developed a stutter) individual, kinda, tie in together.

DE: They all tie in together.

Fm campaign co-ordinator: They’re all at similar times and place.

DE: There’s three in exactly the same location. I don’t know what the Portuguese authorities have done to actually eliminate these people from the enquiry. So, we’ve gotta presume that they haven’t done it and go with that. So, it’s just important, that we actually, we are accurate in what we know and make sure that that’s what we’re going with. No speculation. It’s gotta be the facts that we know and not try to fill in the gaps that we don’t know.

K: I mean, I’d like to go back, but not for this, to be honest. It’s kinda, just below the surface and I just, you know, I’d be scared, I think, you know, to sort of open it open it up again, really, so. yeah. I think, it’s actually going through the scenario of that night, as well, you know. Erm, I mean, you know, even what I can remember of the night, you know. Seeing G, erm, that distraught, really, sobbing and on the floor. I mean, I suppose I’m concerned that that will, er, surface again.

Voice over: K calls key witness JT, who has agreed to join G and the investigators in PdL for the reconstructions.

Scene: K talking on the phone to JT

K: “Oh, ok, pretty busy, (she laughs). Although, it’s quite good to be honest to be doing stuff and focused and it just sort of helps, you know, to be doing something positive thing. How you feeling about the weekend? I mean, I’m really nervous and I’m not going (laughs). Thank you very much by the way. No, I know, I know it’s a big step, but we appreciate it anyway so, thank you.

K: Er, she’s trying not to think about it. She just said, erm, apart from the obvious emotional concern, she’s worried about the reaction of people locally.

Voice over: Returning will be controversial. PdL was a popular family holiday resort, but things haven’t been the same since M’s abduction.

K: You know, we are aware that, unfortunately, erm, this has all been a headache really for people whose businesses are out there, their livelihoods, you know. It’s a negative, a child’s been abducted from that area and I guess in the ideal world, it would all go away, you know, everybody could move on with their lives and, but, you know, our little girl is still missing so …

K: I think regardless of what anybody thinks of me and G, and I’m a bit past caring now, really. But, you know, I think, people do feel for M and that’s the most important thing and they want M to be found and they want M to be well. There has been a question as to why now and I’d simply say, well M is still missing. Why not, now? You know.

Voice of Interviewer: Do you feel there’s a lot riding on this weekend?

K: I do, yeah, and I’m nervous. I’m nervous because I realise how important this is to do really. To get that bit of key information, I’m nervous that it’ll … all could get sabotaged or it could all go very wrong. Obviously, I don’t want that because it’s so important.

G: We are desperate for this to be successful and to be done and hopefully it might be one call, t might be 10 calls, but that’s all it’ll take, it could be just one piece of information.

DE: The offence was committed in PdL, that’s a simple fact. So, you don’t start an investigation in, er, Morocco or Spain or even Lisbon. This event’s happened in PdL. It’s a very self-contained resort and that’s where I think the answer is.

Voice over: D E is leading the search for MM. Today, he’s in PdL, on the Portuguese Algarve, to oversee filming of significant events described in witness statements. Statements, which he believes, strongly suggest that someone was watching the Mc family. He hopes that the reconstructions will lead to the discovering who that someone is.

DE: He may even have been watching the apartment for a week or more. I don’t think it was someone random. In my experience random just doesn’t happen. Someone just doesn’t go in, … passerby, and pick up a child and take it. These things are planned.

DE with Pimpleman actor

DE: This, erm, scene. You’re standing over there and you’re standing at an angle

Action: filming starts

Witness 1: Child and woman walking.

Voice over: Witness No. 1 is a British tourist. She first saw something strange four days before M disappeared.

Sunday, April 29, approx 08.00

Witness 1: I was walking along the road with my daughter, when I saw a man. I grabbed my daughter’s hand and pulled her towards me because for some reason, he unnerved me.

Voice over: She saw the same man again. This time close to the Mc’s apartment on the day before M went missing

Wednesday 2 May approx 15.00

Witness 1: The next time I saw him, he was standing on the opposite side of the road to the apartment. He appeared to be watching it. He was about 5’10”, slim build and wearing casual clothes, jeans, I think. I would describe him as very ugly, pitted skin, with a large nose.

DE talking to a young girl (Witness 3)

DE: …and as you’re just passing here, this chap will be stood over there. So, if you just, you come up, if you just glance over at him and ….

Scene shows Witness 2, Mum, girl and two dogs

Voice over: The second witness is a school girl, who lives near the holiday complex. Three days before M was taken, she was with her mum outside the M’s apartment.

Monday 30 April approx 08.15

Witness 2: I was walking to the school bus stop. I go this way to school every day. As I was walking down the road, near the apartment, I saw a man on the small path behind the block. My grandparents used to live in that apartment. So, I always look at it, as I pass by. The man seemed to be looking at the balcony of the ground floor apartment. He was wearing a black jacket and leaning against the wall.

Voice over: She saw him again, as well, the day before M was taken.

Witness 2: I didn’t go to school that day because I had an ear infection. I was walking up the road with my two dogs, when I saw the man. He was standing on the road opposite the OC and he was staring at the apartment.

DE talking to older couple (Witness 3)

DE: You have him coming from your apartment, which is over here, somewhere. You turn the corner and walk down the path.

Lady witness (the couple) (Witness 3): What the two of us?

DE: Yes, the two of you together.

DE: This was actually a sketch that was drawn by the witness at the time and, er, as you can see, he’s just stood where we are now. (shows sketch the couple) Make eye contact with him and just walk straight on past.

Voice over: Witness No 3 is a man with his partner from Cheshire. He gave a statement to the police describing a man he’d seen near the apartment.

Witness 3 (Man) I can’t remember whether I saw the man on Wednesday 2 or Thursday 3 May (approximately 11.30). But as we walked along the road, I saw a man standing next to the wall by the parking area. On the opposite side of the road was a white van. I paid particular attention to him, because he appeared to be focused on watching the apartment block as I walked past him, I looked at him, and for a split second, we had eye contact but then he just carried on staring at the apartment.

DE: We’re asking for people to come forward with information. For me, one of the big things in any major crime, the perpetrators always confide in someone else. They’ve gotta get it off their chest and it’s that person, as much as anything, that we’re aiming at. Someone knows something.

Voice over: G is back in PdL. His arrival and the reconstructions are attracting a lot of media attention. But for the people who live here, it’s attention they can do without.

G: This is an area that relies strongly on tourism and people’s livelihoods have been affected and I can totally understand when people are suffering economically, that they get resentful. But, hope they can understand as well, that as parents, we need to find M.

Voice over: The simmering anger is evident. A brand new billboard poster of M with “Help me” in Portuguese has been splattered with paint and at the holiday complex G can hear the hostility (heckling)

G: No one, even with a heart of stone, can take away that there’s a little girl missing. Why anyone would not want to help find her is a mystery and obviously if we find M, then everyone can move on.

Voice over: He goes back to the Tapas Bar where they ate in the evenings, while the children slept in the apartment.

G: I can’t remember exactly where the table was. It was kinda in this bit, so it’d be about around here and I was kinda sitting in this bit and K was here. Well, you could see where the shutters are now and the bit of the hedge, it’s grown. It was cut, you know, a couple of feet lower than that.


Second Section

Voice over: For the first time in two years, G returns to apartment 5a of the OC.

Voice over: The last place where he saw his daughter, M, asleep in her bed.

G: So, I actually came in and M was just at the top of the bed here, where I’d left her lying and the covers were folded down and she had her cuddle cat and blanket, were just by her head It’s terrible because, I , erm, had one of those really proud father moments, where I just thought, you know. I just thought, your absolutely beautiful and I love you and I just paused for a minute and then, I just pulled the door closed again and just to about there and, er, I felt incredibly proud standing there and having, you know, 3 beautiful children.
That’s the, I think the most ironic thing of the lot, that, that momentary pause I had, at that door, that’s exactly what I felt like. You know, a few minutes before our world was essentially shattered and probably, 3 or 4 minutes before M was taken and we obviously, absolutely, er, what’s the word, persecuted ourselves for not being here and, erm, there is no doubt, that not being here at that moment, erm, increased the risk of it.

Voice over: The Mc’s were on holiday with a group of friends. In the evenings, they all ate together and took it in turns to make half-hourly checks on each other’s children. Two of the group, MO and JT, both crucial witnesses, have returned to help DE with the reconstructions. It’s believed that M was taken shortly after her father’s check at 9 o’clock. In the 45 minutes that followed, there were two significant sightings of a man carrying a young girl. The first was by JT. She was looking in on her sick daughter, when she saw G returning from his check. He was talking to a friend, JW, at the side of the road. However, J(T) and G remember the scene differently.

JT: So, I think you were about here. Cos, I think that you were standing like that and, J(W) was there, with his pram, pointing down that way. Cos, I think if you’d been looking at me, I would’ve said something, cos I would’ve said about, cos K had been moaning that you’d been gone a long time watching the football.

G: I’m almost certain that when I came out, I came over and he was here and I was like that. That’s my memory of it, it’s like J(W) is 6’3” or something and looking up and then turning in, when I finished. That’s my memory of it.

JT: Yeah. I mean, well we just …….

DE: It’s like I said, there are, you know, inconsistencies, you know, in every major investigation.

JT: Ok, that’s fine.

DE: Obviously, the most important thing is what you saw, Jane. It’s not where G and J(W) were actually stood. Because they didn’t obstruct your view of the man. So ….

JT: I was walking up here to do the check and probably, as I got to , it’s hard to know exactly where, but probably, about here, I saw the man walk across the road there, carrying the child. I just got up and walked out the Tapas bar, past G talking to J(W). That’s when I saw somebody walk across the top of the road, carrying a child and I think, I did think, oh, there’s somebody taking their child home to bed. But, they didn’t look like a standard tourist. This is ridiculous isn’t it? It just looks so much like somebody abducting a little girl, when you look at it. It just looks so obvious when you know, you know. Just look at it and you think, why the hell didn’t you think there is somebody abducting a child. That was not even a thought, that somebody’s gonna go into an apartment and take a child out. You know, you’re probably the one person that could’ve actually stopped it and you think, oh, what if? It’s that what if? what if?, what if and you can take those what ifs to ad infinitum really.

Voice over: At 9.30 pm, half an hour after G’s check it was MO’s turn to look in on all the children. He went into the Mc’s apartment, but didn’t go into the bedroom and so didn’t see if M was missing.

MO: Pretty much from the approach down here, you can see straight into the room. So you can see the cots as you are walking in. So it never really felt like there was any real need to, sort of, go all the way into the room. Erm, you could see both cots and see into them from there. I, sort of, ummed and ahed about the angle and things. All I just know is that I had an unimpeded view and it was just dead quiet, and just… why I didn’t take those extra couple of steps in

G: Yeah, I mean, I was saying this earlier, that at no point, other than that night, did I go stick my head in. That was the only time, because the door was like that. I mean, I knew how I’d left it.

MO: It’s more that you know I’d felt you’d done enough. You’ve been and seen. It’s quiet.

G: Part of the reason we ended up coming through the back was the noise coming through the front door. We didn’t want to disturb them. Sigh. Stupid, now, isn’t it.

Voice over: It is possible that JT is not the only person who saw M being carried away by the abductor. 40 minutes after J(T)’s sighting and ½ mile away from the Mc’s apartment a family also saw a man carrying a young girl away from the town. Later the witness thought that this might have been GM. But, this was investigated and ruled out by the Portuguese police.

DE: A man was seen here carrying a child, just before 10 pm on the night M was abducted. When the man saw the family he appeared furtive and veered off to one side and carried on walking. Obviously, anyone carrying a child at night, it’s really important. We need to find out who this person was.

Family Witness Statement: I was with my family. We’d been out for the night and we were walking up the street when I saw a man and he was carrying a child. I thought they were father and daughter, so I wasn’t so suspicious. The girl was about 4, she looked like my granddaughter, blonde hair, pale white skin, typically British. The man didn’t look like a tourist. I can’t explain why. It was, probably, from his clothes.

G: Someone knows the information and someone knows who took M and someone knows where she is. Let’s get moving! Let’s get the phone ringing.

Voice over: At home K is preparing for the inevitable media attention that will surround the second anniversary of M’s disappearance.

K: ( Showing photo album) well this one. I think is really sweet and it’s M just when she arrived home from hospital, erm, to our house. I think she looks quite cute, wrapped up in a little bundle. She’s got those eyes. I tell you, those eyes that never closed.

For us they’re not just photos and especially now, not having M in our life, they’re more than photos and to me, each photo is very special. I mean, it’s M and we’ve given out so much of our daughter to the world really. You know, you just want to be able to retain some of it.

Voice of Interviewer: Are we allowed to see this one?

K: uh-hum (nods head in agreement)

Voice of Interviewer: Do you still feel her physically, as much as you did?

K: Tut… well, I know the M that I know, you know. I don’t know M at, you know, nearly six. She might look different. She could be speaking a different language (Scene shows her packing for trip to States) She might have her hair different, she might have different interests, but, you know, she’s still our daughter.

G: (holding up a suit). I think that’s pretty business-like isn’t it?

K: Yes

G: Right, put that away

Voice over: K&G are preparing for a trip to America that they hope will breathe new life into the search for M. As well as an interview on the OW show, they plan on visiting the world’s leading child recovery experts, who are creating an image of M aged six.

K: We’re going to America tomorrow and initially, we’re going to Washington to the NCMEC

EA: Circulating the photograph of, er, of a child, who was not quite four, two year’s later is not good enough.

When, we started this 10 year’s ago. The goal was to use technology, er, to keep these cases alive. To provide new hope for parents and new leads for law enforcement and we said at the time, wouldn’t it be great if we could actually find one of these kids and we found 900 of them. Er, everyone of these 900 cases, the child had been missing at least two years. So, what we’ve tried to do is to take your photos, er, as a guide. Young children’s faces change very quickly. As you can see, she has her mother’s jawline. She has her mother’s mouth. It’s striking. She has her mother’s dimples.

K: That’s me, as well, isn’t it? (referring to picture of her as a child)

EA: This is you, as well. Exactly.

K laughs

EA: But G, she has your nose.

G: The genes mix quite well. (Both laughing).

EA: They really do. They really do. I mean it’s a remarkable example of the best of genetics. So, leaning heavily, on heredity, and using every tool we can find, we truly believe that this is what MM looks like today and we hope that somebody, that millions of somebodies will look at the picture, but, that somebody will be moved to reach out and say, I think I have information.

G: I glanced It’s a different child and that is really important. It’s not the four year old or nearly four year old little girl and it’s hard, because, In our memory, we remember her the last day she was in Portugal and what she looked like, so…

K: It’s a very emotional thing, really, to see my daughter in a different way to how I remember her. Erm, so if I’m honest, initially, I, was quite upsetting and then I started to look at features and I thought, well, that’s definitely M and that bits M and, you know, yes, she is 2 year’s older.

EA: Despite the love and the care you that you put into raising her, at that age, M may not know she’s missing. M may have been told, well, now you are supposed to come with me. So, we hope that other children will look at this. It’s not inconceivable that she’s in a classroom somewhere. The goal here is to reach out to people around the world and say. Somebody knows something and if you do, call us.

Voice over: K&G now need to publicise this new image. The first step is to travel from Washington to Chicago for an interview on OWS, that will be broadcast in 144 countries.

G: It’s really important we get this image out, as far and as wide as possible. Because, ultimately, we don’t know where M is and if she was moved out of Portugal quickly, she could be anywhere and that’s the main reason for doing O(W) get that image out there

K: Nervous, but, it’s like anything we’ve done, you know, we’re doing it for a reason and the reason’s to held find M so just get on with it.

G: I actually think there’s not much more else we can do right now.

K: I think we’ve achieved a lot in the last few weeks and we’re really hoping that somebody who has been sitting there, knowing something, will suddenly feel the courage and compassion really to come forward and of course, we’ve also released the age progression image of M, now age 6 and I think that’s important. Because that’s almost appealing to people, who may know M, whatever M’s called now

K: So I feel, we’ve all worked really hard. I think what we’ve done is positive and productive. I actually feel the chance of us finding M is higher now, it’s more likely to yield a result and I actually feel a little excited, really, about what we’ve just done so.

G: I think it’s like, we want it out there, now. All the work’s been done and it’s all being co-ordinated round the anniversary. But we want it out and it’s just, let’s get moving.

K: We just need that one person, there might be more than one person, but one person to come forward and say I’ve seen that girl or I remember something from that night and that could unravel the whole thing.

[Acknowledgement - pamalam at gerrymccannsblog]

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

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McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts - Page 3 Empty Re: McCann Interview and VideoTranscripts

Post by Verdi on 10.07.19 12:53

Philomena McCann

Philomena McCann, the aunt of missing toddler Madeleine McCann, has criticised police in Portugal.
5th May 2007

Interviewer: It's, errr... now more than 30 hours since 3-year-old Madeleine McCann went missing at the, errr... family holiday resort in the Algarve. Her parents, at the time, were having dinner nearby.

Let's speak to Phil McCann, who is Madeleine's aunt. Errr... hello to you, Phil, thank you for joining us, errr... this morning. Errr... You must be in constant contact, errr... with the family out there in the Algarve. Errm... Just give us an idea what the police are doing to try and find Maddie?

Philomna McCann: Well, the police have stepped up the search, much more than before anyway, and I spoke to Gerry about half an hour ago and he said that they are doing everything... the sniffer dogs are really evident. There's lots and lots of activity but he just thinks it's too little too late.

I: Do they feel, Phil, that, errr... the police missed an opportunity, on that first night, after, errr... Maddie's parents reported her missing?

PM: Absolutely. It was hours before the local police turned up and we're talking two bobbies that totally downplayed the incident and said that Maddie had maybe just wandered off, and that... but what 3-year-old would wander off for hours on their own? It took the CID 5 hours before they responded to come and even then it was, kind of, shrug of the shoulders. There's been no feedback from the Portuguese police to Gerry. The stress levels have been through the roof because of this, it's just been shocking.

I: Phil, do, errr... Maddie's parents think that she has been snatched then or do they think there's any chance that she might have... might have gone missing because she just opened the door of the apartment and... and did go for a wander?

PM: I mean, it is completely ludicrous that anyone would suggest that Madeleine went for a wander. She's a 3-year-old that loves her family. She was sleeping between her brother and sister. She dotes on her parents. She's just like a normal 3-year-old; happy, carefree... Why would she wander away from people who love her? Gerry and Kate knew instantly - which is why Kate responded by being hysterical - that someone had snatched her daughter. Convincing other people has been the hardest job. Kids don't just walk away when they're happy, carefree and well-adjusted, and that's what Madeleine is. But, she must be so petrified now.

I: Errm... We know the sort of operation which would have been, errr... kick-started in this country when a child goes missing. Errr... there would be a televised appeal; there would be a press conference. Do you know if anything like that is taking place over in Portugal to... to, errr... widen the search for Maddie at this time?

PM: Well, Gerry says that anything that's happened has been British led. They had some posters put up and people have been helping distribute... and the kindness of people that they don't know, as well as their frem... family and friends, has been utterly immense. But in the Portuguese end it's been so subdued, it's all low-key; it's not enough, they have to do so much more. I don't know what the press is like in Portugal today, in the media, but certainly the response we have had from the media in Britain has been tremendous but it's not mirrored in Portugal, from what we can see. It's just a case of: 'Well, how can this happen in a family-friendly resort?', 'How can... errr... it's not...', you... you know, 'You're over-reacting', 'Calm down', 'Blah, blah, blah'. Well, you know, almost two days later, Madeleine's missing. Calm down? I don't think so. They need to get their act in order. It's shocking.

'It Is Abhorrent To Suggest Bad Parenting' Sky News videos
5th May 2007

Philomna McCann: The childcare facilities: you're leaving people with other folk that you don't know. Gerry and Kate are in a clear line of sight of their kids. They regularly go across to check; maybe if the kids have been disturbed or crying or anything and if they'd come out the front they would have seen them. It is obvious that someone with malicious intent went through that window and took Madeleine from the safety and security of her family. To suggest in any possible way that Kate and Gerry are negligible pare... negligent pare... negligent parents, sorry, is just abhorrent to all of us. They love their family; they would never willingly, knowingly or in any way neglect them. It's horrible.

Ian Woods: Very difficult for Gerry and Kate to face the media last night, I mean, Gerry was... was very strong in... in reading his statement. Have you... have you spoken to them this morning? How are... how are they doing?

PM: I've spoken to Gerry several times. Errr... they're a bit better; they had a counsellor speak to them for an hour and a half this morning and it's helped give Gerry, errr... some perspective and really helped them, you know, get things... and make small steps is what they're trying to do; they're trying to keep it together. They had a small amount of sleep which has had an enormous impact on regenerating their... their zest and, you know, their life f... trying to find Madeleine is all they can think about and it's what everyone has to focus on. They need to find Madeleine; she has to come home.

IW: And it must be very frustrating for them to just be sitting, waiting for news. Is there... is there a temptation for them to... to get out and... and try and search themselves, even though, you know, that is only going to be adding a very small amount to the... the much wider search that the police are doing?

PM: Yeah, well, I mean, for Gerry and Kate, they want to get out there. They want to search everything; they want to leave nothing unturned but, then, that's for everyone that we've spoken to. This crisis has hit so many people, from our f.... close friends and family to people across the world. We've had an enormous amount of, errr... support from people; the media have been terrific in trying to, errm... show this to people and how much it's affected us. She's just a little girl.

Aunt: 'Toddler's Parents Are Not To Blame' Sky News videos
9th May 2007

Philomna McCann: They were going back to check into a locked apartment, where they had left their kids sleeping, you know. They're good parents; they tried so hard to have kids. They've got three beautiful children that they absolutely dote on.

Kay Burley: You must be very... get quite cross when there's any criticism of... of them, having left them having left her on her own?

PM: Well, it's completely unjustified. They're normal parents who love their children and would never neglect them in any way and anyone suggesting that they... that they were neglecting them... it's just completely insulting.

KB: I'm sure that's true. How long are they, errm... how long are they going to stay out there? Until they find Maddie?

PM: They'll stay until they find Madeleine. How can they go on? They need their daughter. They absolutely need her and we... we... we just need to have Madeleine home. These person or people have to bring her back to us. I mean, the whole family needs her here - not just Gerry and Kate, although, I mean, she's just such an integral member of the family. If you... I mean you suggested that we are a close family; if, you know, a big part of that goes... and we love children, most of us, you know... my job's working with children; Gerry and Kate have caring occupations. Both of them dedicated their life to having people, you know, to helping having... getting out there, and, you know, to have this happen is just the worst possible scenario.

KB: Sure.

McCann Relatives Launch Fighting Fund Sky News videos
16th May 2007

Philomna McCann: Errr... well, personally I... I'm heartened by the support I've received today in Parliament. There have been lots of suggestions; from the top, to some of the lesser, but as much appreciated, individuals within the Parliament. I have been galvanised by their support and I take on board some of their ideas which I have found very helpful, thank you.

Q: Could you give us an idea of what the Chancellor offered you in advice?

PM: Well, the Chancellor, more than anything, gev [gave] me some moral support and his advice I'd like to firstly share with my brother before I share it with the rest of the country and keep him in the loop rather than, errr... the media and people, errr... I'm sure at some point you will be made aware of the suggestions that have been made but for now I'd like to mull them over with my family because they deserve to hear them first, quite frankly.

Q: Were you moved by the mood of the house during Prime Minister's question time?

PM: What, the light-hearted mood when there was much of the jocularity? Or the support for the family? I presume you mean the second. Yes, it was very, errr... heartrending. It, errm... it really does help you to know that so many people support you and my family. It, errr... it is really, really nice.

"They're trying to get Kate to admit to having accidentally killed Madeleine and disposed of her body"
7th September 2007

Philomena McCann: Part of it is that they're, errm... trying to get Kate to admit to having accidentally killed Madeleine and disposed of her body... hidden and disposed of her body - which is complete nonsense. Errr... It has no factual basis whatsover and, looking at the scenario: assuming that when they'd gone home, early evening, Kate has murdered her daughter and then gone out for some convivial company with friends, sat and had a meal and later rai... you know, raised an alarm - but sat through all that perfectly normal with people and then done it. It just beggar's belief; it's not true.

"They tried to get Kate to confess"
7th September 2007

Philomena McCann: They tried to get Kate to, errr... confess to having accidentally killed, errr... Madeleine by offering her a deal through her lawyer, which was: 'If you say that you killed Madeleine by accident; and then hid her; and then disposed of the body, errr... then we can guarantee you a two-year jail sentence or even less. You may get off because people feel sorry for you; it was an accident.'

This Morning, ITV1, 07 September 2007 Prime Time

Following the news that Kate McCann had been named as a suspect in the case, Madeleine's aunt spoke to Phillip Schofield and Ruth Langsford on the 'This Morning' show on ITV1.

Ruth: "Only a week or so ago, you were in here talking to us and so much has happened in such a short space of time. I know that you've spoken to Kate this morning, 11 hours she was at the station answering questions, how is she this morning?"

Philomena: "She's completely outraged, just like the rest of the family. It's inconceivable what’s happening to them out there. There they are, they're victims of this horrendous crime and now they're trying to sully their name in this disgusting manner with this smear campaign. It’s just unbelievable."

Ruth: "I know that during the news reports we've been seeing in the last couple of days it has been stressed that they are being questioned as witnesses not suspects. Is that still the case Philomena?"

Philomena: "Not that I am aware of, no. As far as I know they've changed their status and they are suspects. And I do know that some of the things that Kate has been asked are just incomprehensible. It's just the most shocking news ever."

Phillip: "We're confused because we've been waiting all week, in fact for longer then that, for this piece of forensic evidence which was supposed to throw the case wide open and certainly shed some light on the areas we haven't understood in the past. This is not what we were expecting, certainly not what you were expecting. Has there been anything mentioned to you about this forensic evidence we were supposed to be hearing about?"

Philomena: "Yes, there has been things mentioned, it's about body fluids being on the family's clothes. I'm not sure exactly, I don't know in-depth details. Some of it seems to me more then a little ludicrous. Of course there would be Madeleine's fluids on their clothes, they pick her up. She's a little girl who get's hugged and lifted. How does that change their status? As far as I can see all they're trying to do is fit Kate and Gerry up now because they haven't found this perpetrator, who's wandering about completely free to act as he pleases and possibly do that again. But at this time Kate and Gerry's names are just being totally sullied."

Phillip: "Does this mean that they are now formal suspects? Am I correct in saying they have moved up to this 'arguido' status?"

Philomena: "Yes that's true"

Phillip: "Does that offer them any other protection that they didn't have before?"

Philomena: "The only protection it offers is that they're allowed to take legal representation in with then when they're being questioned by the police and the other thing that it does is that allows them not to answer questions in case they incriminate themselves. But that's not what Kate and Gerry want to do. The police are trying to suggest that Kate has in some way accidentally killed Madeleine. How ludicrous is that when one of their friends actually saw Madeleine being carried up the street by some unknown assailant?"

Ruth: "How much was Kate actually allowed to tell you? What kind of things did they ask her that's made her now feel that they think she is a suspect in this?"

Philomena: "They were saying 'Tell us what you did with her?' Kate's like 'You must be insane to think we'd put ourselves through this'. It's just nonsense."

Phillip: "The relationship between your family and the police, up until now, has appeared to be very good. They're been frustration and certainly a discussion that mistakes have been made but that aside you do seem to have had a good relationship with the police."

Philomena: "My brother's telling me, do not antagonise these people. The enquiry is in their hands, we have to work with these people, they are our best hope. You have to be very political with what you say about them buy hey the gloves are off, these people are imbeciles."

Ruth: "Is it right that Gerry is being questioned separately today?"

Philomena: "He's going in at 2pm today. But he's not the main suspect, for some unknown reason there's something about a sniffer dog sniffing Kate. Suddenly a dog can talk and says she smelled a death. How can that be when a British sniffer dog came out months after Madeleine's case. They're doctors, if there's a smell of death on them could that possibly be a patient?"

Philomena: "You can imagine how low they feel about they with this, and yet there's this adrenaline pumping through them because at the end of the day all the time they're treating Kate and Gerry as suspects, the perpetrator is out there laughing that they've got away with this."

Ruth: "How much do you think these recent developments will affect your campaign now?"

Philomena: "I think with out a doubt they'll be a large number of people who think mud sticks. Whatever they say this has been covered by every news channel. It's all those adages, 'there's no smoke without fire'. Well it depends where that smoke's coming from and I think that smoke is just a smokescreen."

Phillip: "Philomena, we'll leave it there for the moment, all of us with our mouths wide open with shock and maybe we could speak to you again on Monday after the weekend and you could give us another update."

Philomena: "Can I just tell the whole audience out there. This is a complete fabrication. Gerry and Kate have got nothing to with the disappearance of their daughter. It has been them pushing this investigation from day one. It is just not true."

McCann Aunt: 'The Twins Come First' Sky News videos
9th September 2007

Philomna McCann: It's a new stage of moving forward but, errr... primarily the twins have to come first. Their development is crucial and Kate and Gerry are putting their needs before everything else, errm... the investigation will carry on but they have to get the t... twins settled at home.

McCanns at an 'all time low' BBC News video
10th September 2007

Dermot Murnaghan: Good morning, to you. Errm... have you managed to speak to Gerry or Kate since their return to Britain?

Philomna McCann: Yes, I did, last night.

DM: And how would you describe their mood?

PM: Well, it was very mixed, actually. There was relief at being home in familiar surroundings but they were exhausted emotionally and physically and just wanted to have some rest, basically, and take stock of where they are now.

DM: It must have been an emotional return, though, for them; returning to a house they left four months ago with three children... with just two?

PM: It was very emotional, Dermot. There was genuine relief to come back and get the kids home into a safe environment because that has been their utmost concern recently; the safety of the children, especially with the media spotlight being on them. The kids needed to be out of that at home, errr... the British journalists have been much more responsible than the Mediterranean journalists, who have continued, throughout this ordeal, photographing and filming Sean and Amelie, specifically after they were not... and even some journalists had, errr... entered the villa grounds without permission; climbing the wall; coming through the gate, etcetera. It's a real concern and Gerry and Kate are glad to have the kids back but they are really desperately upset that Madeleine is not with them and, you know, it's a very emotionally trying time for them.

DM: How angry are you; how angry are they about being made official suspects by the Portuguese police? We heard a little bit from Gerry as they emerged from the plane at East Midlands airport when he... he made that statement, errm... he did look very, very drawn - very, very angry.

PM: Well, actually, he looked very distressed to me. I could hear his voice quivering and breaking. The fact that they have been made this 'elguido' status. They're not allowed to discuss things; they have been effectively gagged by the Portuguese. I'm furious; the rest of the family are furious. It's adding insult to injury. They're at an all time low and we are shocked by how they have been treated, especially when we had no real understanding of what this 'elguido' status meant and the Portuguese legal system, to us, is a complete maze and we now need help to negotiate that; and that process has already started. So, Kate and Gerry have met with some legal representatives to help guide us though this maze and what they could potentially face.

DM: You say it's a maze, you say it's very confusing but are they still prepared to fully cooperate with the police investigation; are they expecting to return to Portugal; will they return if asked for further questioning?

PM: Errr... yes, they absolutely will cooperate with the police. They are more than prepared to undergo more questioning. It is their intention, regardless of whether they are asked to return, to return at regular intervals to try and put pressure on the Portuguese police to change the direction of the investigation in order to look for Madeleine - a live, little 4-year-old girl who's desperately sought by her parents, the rest of the family and, from what I hear, the rest of the world. We all want her home safely.

DM: Just want to ask you, though, about the cooperation with the... with the Portuguese police. It's reported in a lot of papers this morning, I don't know if you've seen them yet, that when they were questioned at the end of last week, by the police, they refused, between them, to answer about 40 questions, they remained silent on so many issues. Why did they do that? Why won't they just say everything they know; answer all those questions to the police?

PM: Well, Dermot, you're saying that they didn't answer 40 questions. That's certainly not coming from Kate and Gerry and I'd imagine if they refused, which I doubt, to answer questions they were either fatuous or spurious and contemptible. Therefore they probably felt that those questions were not at all justified or possibly that they had already answered them and as fully as they possibly could, therefore there was nothing else they could say to further that.

DM: And a genuine feeling coming from you...

PM: I have... I don't know because... sorry, Dermot...

DM: Go on.

PM: But Gerry and Kate are not talking about their questions; they can't. They have been gagged by the Portuguese system. You saw Gerry on the tarmac reading the statement saying that they would love to say more but are unable to because they could be por... prosecuted, under the portuguese system, if they discuss what was said at their questioning.

DM: And... and.. finally, Philomena, back to what you were saying earlier, do... do they fear this... this cloud of suspicion, errm... is masking, what they see as... as... a the real issue here; the disappearance of Madeleine?

PM: Absolutely. The... the way the Portuguese have turned this investigation round and they are no longer looking for a live child. They are assuming, on spurious evidence, that Madeleine is now dead. Well, we don't agree with that - in any shape or form - and we want the investigation changed round to look for Madeleine alive, as we reckon she is, because the evidence from, errr... the organisations that look for missing and exploited children, points to kids like Madeleine being alive - not murdered - because their value is too high. We believe Madeleine is alive. We don't know her current status; how well she is; but we want her actively sought.

Does the evidence stack up? BBC Radio 5 live Breakfast
10th September 2007

Nicky Campbell: ...Gerry McCann's sister, Philomena McCann. Philomena, good morning, thank you for talking to us and joining us.

Philomena McCann: Good morning.

NC: Errr... good morning. Errm... give us an idea what Kate and Gerry are going through right now.

PM: Well, they're going through torment, aren't they? They've had to leave Portugal without their daughter; their beloved daughter who's the apple of their eye. They've left a country - that they never wanted to leave without Madeleine - and it's heartbreaking. However, they have had to look at Sean and Amelie and their safety and security and bring them home. They've done what's right for the children and to protect their welfare.

NC: And the fact that in some people's minds, now, because of the fact that they are suspects - 'arguido' - and, you know, there is... a doubt about their innocence has been sewn. How do they feel about that?

PM: Well, they're irate (laughs)...

NC: Irate?

PM: we all are.

NC: Mmm...

PM: But peo... Yeah, of course, they're irate. They're very angry; they can't believe how this has turned round, but not just for the blackening of their name, but because the status of the investigation has changed. The Portuguese police need to be looking for Madeleine, not trying to look at evidence that implicates Gerry and Kate, who have absolutely nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance. There is an abductor out there who must be laughing in his socks right now, knowing that the... the limelight has now totally gone from them and has been deflected onto Gerry and Kate, who are entirely innocent of this matter.

NC: What about these claims about the... the DNA? What... what do you make of that? The finding of Madeleine's blood, or rather DNA, in... in the... speculation is the hire car and also in the apartment.

PM: Well, I'm no criminologist, and no expert in this, but there's a phrase that I've watched in many a TV show and that's: 'Transference DNA'. Trans... Madeleine's DNA would be on their clothes, their hands and things and that lasts for a long, long time. I'm no expert, as I said, I don't know how long it lasts but now that Gerry and Kate know what the evidence is, they will be able to take legal advice on this and will understand this much further. You can't expect us to know exactly how to treat this; we need help and advice. As I said, this is completely new to us and we want experts to tell us exactly what this means.

NC: It's a nightmare for you, isn't it?

PM: It is a nightmare. Apart from anything else, we are, kind of, just professional people who go about our daily business and the media scrutiny has been intense - which also goes back to the fact that Kate and Gerry have been under immense media scrutiny since this happened. How could they possibly have done some of the things that are being suggested? Like: hide her body; dig her body up; put it in a car. There's not been a time when the media camera has not been on them; as soon as they've left the apartment; gone for a walk. We've watched it, on 24 hours, on TV. How can it be possible that they could have done these things? The allegations are ridiculous, at best.

NC: And just the other... another couple, just to... to get you to... to comment on: The claim that Kate had the smell of death on her clothes and also the claim that Madeleine had been sedated.

PM: (long pause) Yeah... I mean, sedated by what? I know the strongest thing that Kate and Gerry give to the kids is Calpol. If that's a sedative, then there must be 90% of the British public quaking in their boots because they all use it. It's pathetic. If that's what they're trying to suggest, it's fatuous, at best, and, other than that, Kate and Gerry are loving parents; they tried so hard to have children. They had to undergo IVF; Kate had difficult pregnancies. They were delighted to have Madeleine; their first born child. They would never do anything to harm her. The worst I've ever seen Kate and Gerry do, or even heard them say, is go and sit on the naughty step. That's hardly, you know, undermining her physically and mentally. It's crazy.

NC: What do you think, errr... Philomena, of the Portuguese police?

PM: Well, I think that they should be looking for Madeleine alive; I don't want Madeleine lost in all of this; on these allegations and counter allegations of whatever else. I don't really care about, you know, what's been said, I just want them to get out there and find Madeleine; do their job, look for her; look for her alive. The abductor has her, or has passed her on to someone else. They need to be looking for her actively. That's what's important in all this, it's Madeleine.

NC: Do you think she's still alive?

PM: Yes, I do think she's still alive. We have had no evidence contrary to that and as for cadaver dogs sniffing death on Kate; I mean, what is she? Lassie? Is she gonna speak to them and ask what they're smelling? Kate's a doctor - what does this mean? You know, they've been given a team that send her to go and sniff Kate's clothes and the dogs are told what to do. If they start barking, how are we supposed to interpret that? Except, perhaps, they're 'barking'.

NC: Philomena McCann, thank you very much.

[Special thanks to Nigel Moore of mccannfiles,com for transcripts and pamalam for hosting his now defunct website]

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

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