Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[j.rob]

I go with the PeterMac line of thinking as in 'everyone knows MM died in 5A'. The only question is how. It's easy to forget that the police of both countries have access to MORE evidence and data than we do. If it's obvious to us, then you can safely assume that not only will it be obvious to them (as we know it was to GA and his team) and they will more than likely have a very strong hypothesis for what happened. I suspect the searches relate to that hypothesis (proving or disproving it) and not at all 'random' or, as some people interpret, desperate. We may not know the hypothesis behind this sequence of search events but I am confident there will BE one.

She may not have died in 5A. She may have died/been grievously injured etc outside 5A (for instance if she had fallen down the stairs) and then been brought back into 5A. Either already dead or grievously ill.

And even if  what the Smith family did see was Gerry carrying Madeleine, it is possible she was not dead at this stage. 

The comments made by the some of the Tapas crew about resuscitating a child are curious. It certainly raises the suggestion that resuscitation was on the cards. So does that mean some of them tried to resuscitate but failed, maybe. Or does it mean that they did not try to resuscitate, for whatever reason?

On the other hand, where is the hard evidence that Madeleine was even on that holiday?! There is so little evidence of her actually being there at all. Why?

My head hurts!

[Truthandjustice]

According to twitter met are now digging up a drainage ditch that was only constructed 2 years ago. Not using local Intel at all. @tellytone

'constructed' 5 YEARS 'after' Madeleine went 'missing'?

Now WHY would they do THAT?

Because they don't know it is a recent construction and clearly not communicating with the locals!

[lj]

According to twitter met are now digging up a drainage ditch that was only constructed 2 years ago. Not using local Intel at all. @tellytone

'constructed' 5 YEARS 'after' Madeleine went 'missing'?

Now WHY would they do THAT?

I hate to say this, and I'll probably be admonished for that again, but maybe for the show?

[sofieellis]

Would the Portuguese authorities allow them to dig up areas without any good reason to do so? I just can't see it.

[Sceptic]

http://news.sky.com/story/1277277/madeleine-police-identify-new-search-area

[jeanmonroe]

Sweaty Met Policeman: "Well guys, I've dug my 'half' of the hole, who's gonna dig the other 'half'?"    

Expert Archaeologist : "You know you can't just dig 'half a hole', right?"

Sweaty Met Policeman: "really? i DIDN'T know THAT"

[Guest]

Here's another question.

Scotland Yard are digging in PDL.

Do the McCanns have a UK Family Liaison Officer assigned to them at this present time?

I would guess that they do. Karen Matthews had one up to the day of her arrest IIRC.

I think I read a long while back now that they do Aquila, not long after the review or investigation started. I may be wrong though.

[aiyoyo]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

You'd expect so.

As victims, they would be informed as soon as practicable once the body is found.
If they are perpetrators, then the order would be - arrest them first then inform them.
PeterMac will correct me if I am wrong.

Do we know if the dogs alerted at all?

Guess not, else they won't move to another location.

[Guest]

Well if the report is to be believed, they want to search somewhere between Luz and Lagos..and slap bang in between the two is the Boavista golf club.....  Maybe they'll find some missing golf balls.....

Though this was an area identified by Mark Harrison, national search advisor who produced a report in 2007 on areas that should be searched:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm


Open Area to East of Praia Da Luz

This open area between the village urban limits and the Boavista golf club to the east and includes a plateau on which sits a trig point and mobile phone mast.
This area has been previously searched by officers and dogs walking through the area to check for Madeleine McCann's visible remains. However considering the new scenario of Homicide and concealed deposition this area affords many opportunities to dispose of a body. Within this area there are old empty properties, wells, thick vegetation, pockets of soft sand and natural fissures in the cliffs. Whilst there is no intelligence she is buried or concealed in this land it would be a natural place an offender may choose dose to the Village using the least effort principle. A proportionate response may therefore be considered to conduct a search of this area using a team of Victim Recovery Dogs (VRD) that are specifically trained to located concealed human remains.
Prior to undertaking this task it would be beneficial to consult with a Forensic Anthropologist with knowledge of this region of Portugal to give opinion as to the likely state of any remains to be found. Further research could also be conducted with regards to the natural scavenging predators in the area.

An inhibiting factor is that since the disappearance of the child an old empty house adjacent to the Trig Point on the Rocha Negra has been demolished and all rubble removed, If she was concealed within this property the search would be unlikely to detect her now.

[ShuBob]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

You'd expect so.

As victims, they would be informed as soon as practicable once the body is found.
If they are perpetrators, then the order would be - arrest them first then inform them.
PeterMac will correct me if I am wrong.

Do we know if the dogs alerted at all?

Guess not, else they won't move to another location.

That line of thinking doesn't make sense Aiyoyo. We know that Eddie and Keela alerted in multiple sites in the summer of 2007.

[Guest]

Messed up the quotes here but Russian Doll said ......Josh Halliday recommended we read the tweets from TS's balcony in PdL after he left the town yesterday, so JH seems to trust him.

A colleague of mine arrived in PdL this morming. He knows little about the case and had little interest other than potential disruption of his holiday as he had inadvertantly booked an apartment overlooking the snail. Needless to say he has been given strict instructions to text me if anything happens. He thinks I'm nuts but has texted to say he has arrived they are digging outside his veranda and there is a film crew on the roof. Will post if he sends anymore news but he's on his hols and wine o'clock has no doubt passed.

[bobbin]

According to twitter met are now digging up a drainage ditch that was only constructed 2 years ago. Not using local Intel at all. @tellytone

'constructed' 5 YEARS 'after' Madeleine went 'missing'?

Now WHY would they do THAT?

I hate to say this, and I'll probably be admonished for that again, but maybe for the show?

It's a far stretch of my imagination, but could someone have moved something from somewhere, knowing a dig was coming, and think to themselves, the police won't look here because it's new build and they'll look tw*ts if they do dig here.
I think my head hurts too. I'm off outside to do some strimming. Head set on for a bit of peace and quiet, for me anyway, maybe not the neighbours.   

[lj]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

You'd expect so.

As victims, they would be informed as soon as practicable once the body is found.
If they are perpetrators, then the order would be - arrest them first then inform them.
PeterMac will correct me if I am wrong.

Do we know if the dogs alerted at all?

Guess not, else they won't move to another location.

That line of thinking doesn't make sense Aiyoyo. We know that Eddie and Keela alerted in multiple sites in the summer of 2007.

But not in this area.

[cass7]

only fact that we can take from this digging is that sy and the pj think madeleine is dead and after all this digging if they find sweet fa , will they announce to the world their op and shut the mcanns and fund up once and for all , because if they manage that it will be a result , not justice for madeleine poor baby , i really hope they can find her but not holding much hope

[Guest]

http://news.sky.com/story/1277277/madeleine-police-identify-new-search-area

Have merged your thread here Sceptic so as not to have too many threads on same subject.

[Guest]

http://news.sky.com/story/1277277/madeleine-police-identify-new-search-area

Have merged your thread here Sceptic so as not to have too many threads on same subject.

And you just deleted my post on the same topic.... I know a lot of my posts get ignored on here but deleting them now too?

[gbwales]

Hope this is helpful with regard to people's questions about Luz & Lagos.

This is from Google Maps and I've added a red and white bar - each segment of which is 1km.

Hope this helps indicate what's within that area and approximately what size it is.





Below is link to full size version...

https://2img.net/h/i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/batifans/_personal/luz-lagos_zps35be42b2.jpg~original

[jeanmonroe]

only fact that we can take from this digging is that sy and the pj think madeleine is dead and after all this digging if they find sweet fa , will they announce to the world their op and shut the mcanns and fund up once and for all , because if they manage that it will be a result , not justice for madeleine poor baby , i really hope they can find her but not holding much hope

THAT won't EVER, irrefutably, 'clear' the McCanns or their 'friends' of possible 'involvement' in Madeleine's 'disappearance' though, will it?

They were ALL in PDL at the EXACT time when Madeleine 'disappeared' weren't they?

That's a 'real' FACT.

Gerry McCann, Madeleine's father, IS the 'last' person to have admitted to, and claimed to, have seen a 'live' Madeleine, in her bed, during his 'check'.

That's a 'real' FACT.

WHY is it IMPOSSIBLE and beyond CONTESTATION, that the McCanns and their 'friends' could NOT be 'involved' in her 'disappearance'?

(Just THEM 'saying so' dosen't count!)

[aiyoyo]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

You'd expect so.

As victims, they would be informed as soon as practicable once the body is found.
If they are perpetrators, then the order would be - arrest them first then inform them.
PeterMac will correct me if I am wrong.

Do we know if the dogs alerted at all?

Guess not, else they won't move to another location.

That line of thinking doesn't make sense Aiyoyo. We know that Eddie and Keela alerted in multiple sites in the summer of 2007.

We are talking about dogs at scrubland search isn't it?

[aiyoyo]

Well if the report is to be believed, they want to search somewhere between Luz and Lagos..and slap bang in between the two is the Boavista golf club.....  Maybe they'll find some missing golf balls.....

Though this was an area identified by Mark Harrison, national search advisor who produced a report in 2007 on areas that should be searched:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm


Open Area to East of Praia Da Luz

This open area between the village urban limits and the Boavista golf club to the east and includes a plateau on which sits a trig point and mobile phone mast.
This area has been previously searched by officers and dogs walking through the area to check for Madeleine McCann's visible remains. However considering the new scenario of Homicide and concealed deposition this area affords many opportunities to dispose of a body. Within this area there are old empty properties, wells, thick vegetation, pockets of soft sand and natural fissures in the cliffs. Whilst there is no intelligence she is buried or concealed in this land it would be a natural place an offender may choose dose to the Village using the least effort principle. A proportionate response may therefore be considered to conduct a search of this area using a team of Victim Recovery Dogs (VRD) that are specifically trained to located concealed human remains.
Prior to undertaking this task it would be beneficial to consult with a Forensic Anthropologist with knowledge of this region of Portugal to give opinion as to the likely state of any remains to be found. Further research could also be conducted with regards to the natural scavenging predators in the area.

An inhibiting factor is that since the disappearance of the child an old empty house adjacent to the Trig Point on the Rocha Negra has been demolished and all rubble removed, If she was concealed within this property the search would be unlikely to detect her now.

Would be interest to see whether this area is next search location.
If so, it would mean this piece of info probably form part of the decision to search here.

[Guest]

http://news.sky.com/story/1277277/madeleine-police-identify-new-search-area

Have merged your thread here Sceptic so as not to have too many threads on same subject.

And you just deleted my post on the same topic.... I know a lot of my posts get ignored on here but deleting them now too?

No it is still there Stewie, I did not delete it, it is just that although you posted straight after on that topic, the posts when moved go in time order, therefore it will not follow Sceptics that's all.  I can't do anything about that.  Please don't accuse until you check.

[cass7]

only fact that we can take from this digging is that sy and the pj think madeleine is dead and after all this digging if they find sweet fa , will they announce to the world their op and shut the mcanns and fund up once and for all , because if they manage that it will be a result , not justice for madeleine poor baby , i really hope they can find her but not holding much hope

THAT won't EVER, irrefutably, 'clear' the McCanns or their 'friends' of possible 'involvement' in Madeleine's 'disappearance' though, will it?

They were ALL in PDL at the EXACT time when Madeleine 'disappeared' weren't they?

That's a 'real' FACT.

Gerry McCann, Madeleine's father, IS the 'last' person to have admitted to, and claimed to, have seen a 'live' Madeleine, in her bed, during his 'check'.

That's a 'real' FACT.

WHY is it IMPOSSIBLE and beyond CONTESTATION, that the McCanns and their 'friends' could NOT be 'involved' in her 'disappearance'?

(Just THEM 'saying so' dosen't count!)noooo jean i am saying that this latest dig will open a few eyes to those that have been blinded by the mcanns for so many years , shes alive , fund will stop and the mcanns will never be able to jump on another missing child case ever 

[nobodythereeither]

Has anyone noticed the video or TV camera in plain sight on the balcony behind them

Did you ?
Honestly ?

see how easy it is to focus on what they want you to.

I did!

Assumed it was media camera.

[MaybeMaybenot]

Has anyone noticed the video or TV camera in plain sight on the balcony behind them

Did you ?
Honestly ?

see how easy it is to focus on what they want you to.

I did!

Assumed it was media camera.

Also spotted it, but it was pointed away as if to say nothing to see here......again

[cass7]

sorry cocked quote up