Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[jeanmonroe]

Tom Parementer latest.... police search  will be of area on the road to Lagos

So, they've 'found' some ENGLISH 'money'!

That would be Andy's! (when he was photographed 'shaking the bush, boss, still shaking')    "Cool Hand Luke"

BOT.

Have any of the 'big boys' (Metoado3, Oakley, Grabbit'n'Leggit) of investigation 'employed' by the McCanns/fund, freely and willingly, ever mentioned the EVRD dog 'alerts' in 5A?

And if they have/did, WHO do they think was the person the cadaverine/blood 'scent/odour' alluded/belonged to?

I have seen no 'reports' of the big boys of investigation mentioning the dogs 'alerts', at all, have you?

[aiyoyo]

I'd like to think they are acting on specific intelligence but going by their wide coverage areas, to include a couple more locations (maybe Lagos Rocha Negra area), it does not appear they were working on tip off; else you'd think the location would be narrowed down to one only.

The terrain at the snail scrubland must be more expansive than can be captured on camera, and sectors of finger tip search would be guided by geo radar or dogs showing interest in the sector or whatever, but they cant possibly be covering every sector square metre by square metre as it is too time consuming.  It they are moving on to the next location it is a good indication they haven't located the "goods" so to speak.

Moving on to different locations would make sense if the police have information that Madeleine was initially hidden on the snail maybe in or close to the children's den then moved to a second and maybe third location. The discovery of the previously unknown den, with or without further forensic evidence, would add weight to the intelligence.

Sorry, don't agree.
If they have had intelligence where her final resting place is, then that would be the ONLY location they need to head for. All the rest of the starting or intermediary hiding location/s is/are not important. Once you have the body or remains, this is IT. What more do you need?

[ultimaThule]

No one can accuse them of not being thorough.

Smithman could have been heading for the snail.
There seems to be a report of Smithman on a phone and this does not tie in with the Smith's statements. Was there another witness? I wonder where this was? Was he still holding Madeleine?
I wonder if soil samples were found in the Scenic boot and these tie in with the soil at the snail. Are they then from a temporary resting place or a final resting place?
I think they are looking for somewhere that was temporary or current hiding place for a body. 

Does anyone have a link to an aerial picture of the snail area in 2007? Are there areas that are now built on?

It seems to me that's exactly what is being conveyed, DurhamGuy, and that should Op Grange lead to the arrest of the most probable perpetrators, it will be very difficult for their publicity machine supporters to rubbish the Met in a not dissimilar manner to that in which they've rubbished the PJ and Dr Amaral.

[fossey]

Sorry, don't agree.
If they have had intelligence where her final resting place is, then that would be the ONLY location they need to head for.  All the rest of the starting or intermediary hiding location/s is/are not important.  Once you have the body or remains, this is IT.  What more do you need?

Incriminating evidence.

M's toothbrush, blanket etc.

G's blue sports bag.

They need to join the dots. Just a body may not be suffice.

[aquila]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

[Lance De Boils]

Major problem I have with the idea of them searching the Snail because of the Smithman sighting:
I think Maddie was out of the area before that night.

To go with the Smithman theory makes the assumption that whatever happened really didn't commence till the night of the 3rd.

I'm not convinced that was the case at all.

[ShuBob]

Sorry, don't agree.
If they have had intelligence where her final resting place is, then that would be the ONLY location they need to head for.  All the rest of the starting or intermediary hiding location/s is/are not important.  Once you have the body or remains, this is IT.  What more do you need?

Incriminating evidence.

M's toothbrush, blanket etc.

G's blue sports bag.

They need to join the dots. Just a body may not be suffice.

Exactly!

[Guest]

Sorry, don't agree.
If they have had intelligence where her final resting place is, then that would be the ONLY location they need to head for.  All the rest of the starting or intermediary hiding location/s is/are not important.  Once you have the body or remains, this is IT.  What more do you need?

Incriminating evidence.

M's toothbrush, blanket etc.

G's blue sports bag.

They need to join the dots. Just a body may not be suffice.

If the cremation rumours are true, there isn't a body to be found but, whether there is or isn't a body, the entire case has to be absolutely watertight with every possible loophole sealed.

[Mirage]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

A very interesting question, Aquila, given she is a ward of court. Might it be Mrs (?Lady) Justice Hogg in the first instance?..........   uT??

[bobbin]

I'd like to think they are acting on specific intelligence but going by their wide coverage areas, to include a couple more locations (maybe Lagos Rocha Negra area), it does not appear they were working on tip off; else you'd think the location would be narrowed down to one only.

The terrain at the snail scrubland must be more expansive than can be captured on camera, and sectors of finger tip search would be guided by geo radar or dogs showing interest in the sector or whatever, but they cant possibly be covering every sector square metre by square metre as it is too time consuming.  It they are moving on to the next location it is a good indication they haven't located the "goods" so to speak.

Moving on to different locations would make sense if the police have information that Madeleine was initially hidden on the snail maybe in or close to the children's den then moved to a second and maybe third location. The discovery of the previously unknown den, with or without further forensic evidence, would add weight to the intelligence.

Sorry, don't agree.
If they have had intelligence where her final resting place is, then that would be the ONLY location they need to head for.  All the rest of the starting or intermediary hiding location/s is/are not important.  Once you have the body or remains, this is IT.  What more do you need?

It might be important if there is a 'sequence of findings' to show proof of who did what to whom.
If a body is just found, McCs could say it was a nasty man that took her and dumped her.
But, if soiled clothing is found, with a pink blanket, or other identifying things, then that would implicate K and G.

I'm only guessing, but am trying to remain 'positive' without info, which itself could be positive.

The police said they wanted peace and quiet to get on with their work without speculation.
The silence is very hard for us, since there is a history of corruption and bending figures, and it could as much be a cover up as a genuine AR search to establish just what did happen to Maddie.

The silence from the McCs and their pink spinning top is also worthy of note, given their perpetual 'yabbering' (I've just made this word up) over the years.
Perhaps the silence for the McCs is also terrifying and the idea that the search is moving to other areas may be making them sweat although I understand UK not to be suffering from too much sun today.

[jeanmonroe]

Sorry, don't agree.
If they have had intelligence where her final resting place is, then that would be the ONLY location they need to head for.  All the rest of the starting or intermediary hiding location/s is/are not important.  Once you have the body or remains, this is IT.  What more do you need?

My thinking exactly

This EXACT 'dig/search' was supposedly BASED entirely on 'intell' from a 'new' witness.

Just a quickie on the 'pings' of 3 'burglators' that LIVE in PDL.

Has OG traced EVERY 'local call' made in PDL that night  between 10pm and, say,1:00am (3rd/4th May 2007)?

The T9's, (who we KNOW made calls that night) the guy who lives near the supermarket, Mrs Fenn, the 'whiskey couple', the tapas restaurant's manager, the Smiths, the beach shop owner, etc

[Mirage]

I'd like to think they are acting on specific intelligence but going by their wide coverage areas, to include a couple more locations (maybe Lagos Rocha Negra area), it does not appear they were working on tip off; else you'd think the location would be narrowed down to one only.

The terrain at the snail scrubland must be more expansive than can be captured on camera, and sectors of finger tip search would be guided by geo radar or dogs showing interest in the sector or whatever, but they cant possibly be covering every sector square metre by square metre as it is too time consuming.  It they are moving on to the next location it is a good indication they haven't located the "goods" so to speak.

Moving on to different locations would make sense if the police have information that Madeleine was initially hidden on the snail maybe in or close to the children's den then moved to a second and maybe third location. The discovery of the previously unknown den, with or without further forensic evidence, would add weight to the intelligence.

Sorry, don't agree.
If they have had intelligence where her final resting place is, then that would be the ONLY location they need to head for.  All the rest of the starting or intermediary hiding location/s is/are not important.  Once you have the body or remains, this is IT.  What more do you need?

It might be important if there is a 'sequence of findings' to show proof of who did what to whom.
If a body is just found, McCs could say it was a nasty man that took her and dumped her.
But, if soiled clothing is found, with a pink blanket, or other identifying things, then that would implicate K and G.

I'm only guessing, but am trying to remain 'positive' without info, which itself could be positive.

The police said they wanted peace and quiet to get on with their work without speculation.
The silence is very hard for us, since there is a history of corruption and bending figures, and it could as much be a cover up as a genuine AR search to establish just what did happen to Maddie.

The silence from the McCs and their pink spinning top is also worthy of note, given their perpetual 'yabbering' (I've just made this word up) over the years.
Perhaps the silence for the McCs is also terrifying and the idea that the search is moving to other areas may be making them sweat although I understand UK not to be suffering from too much sun today.

(My bold) Thank you Bobbin. It is knife-edge stuff and easy to fall into the slough of despond. But I will try my bestest to retain a little hope and faith in AR and draw a bit of comfort from what you have said. Humanity can surprise at times.
  

[Guest]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

Good question. If so, could it be taxi to airport time?

[fossey]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

Good question. If so, could it be taxi to airport time?

You wont see the Mccanns in Portugal IF a body is found. No chance.

[stillsloppingout]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

Good question. If so, could it be taxi to airport time?

In normal circumstances yes , i sadly know the parent of a child who was murdered . 

If there were mitigating circumstances say Maddie was found holding something that could instantly incriminate the parents , then restraint would be granted .
But IMO there is no body .

[Guest]

How does Tony Stewart know the search effort was wasted?

 asked him, no reply yet. Josh Halliday recommended we read the tweets from TS's balcony in PdL after he left the town yesterday, so JH seems to trust him... I don't understand why the PJ didn't tell SY how new the drain was and if they did why SY would go ahead.

Josh Halliday tweeted he was 'back, sadly, from Praia da Luz'. Sadly? He must think something important was happening, then. He will, of course, be party to the thoughts and knowledge of those he's spoken to there, residents and journos et al.

Clearly feels he's been pulled up like a runner with a twisted ankle half way through a race.

[aiyoyo]

Sorry, don't agree.
If they have had intelligence where her final resting place is, then that would be the ONLY location they need to head for.  All the rest of the starting or intermediary hiding location/s is/are not important.  Once you have the body or remains, this is IT.  What more do you need?

Incriminating evidence.

M's toothbrush, blanket etc.

G's blue sports bag.

They need to join the dots. Just a body may not be suffice.

Exactly!

If the Police know where exactly to recover the body/remains, or were given intelligence leading to the recovery, it would mean they were already on the trail of the perpetrator/s and won't be needing incidental items to prove their case.  If incidental incriminating items were available to further support the case, then GOOD, if not, they have no need to go all way out on expensive mission to find incidental objects/items to support MAIN evidence they already have.

If a body was chanced by a public, the police's search would be in reverse order, needing to determine the identity of the body and who the perp might be.  
But this case in question, assuming the perp/s is/are already a known factor then the search of the body is based on intelligence retracing the steps of the perp/s.  In a nutshell, once the body is recovered, this it IT, no need for other this and that.  Unless the body is not findable or cannot be recovered, then looking for other incriminating evidence and/or items tying to the perp/s will become crucial.

[Guest]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

I've wondered that too. Even given everything, I'd like to think that they would. Whether they are legally rather than morally compelled to or not is a different matter.

I hope you have BIG FONTS turned on BTW.

[DurhamGuy1967]

Did they find pollen or seeds from a certain type of plant in the Scenic?  This would account for the aerial search for a certain tree or plant. Is this plant producing pollen at a certain time of year. ie June?

[riskybuisness]

yes to the airport and onto a flight to Brazil, Ecuador or the like

[jeanmonroe]

"Well, I've dug my 'half' of the hole, who's gonna dig the other 'half'?"    

[riskybuisness]

How does Tony Stewart know the search effort was wasted?

 asked him, no reply yet. Josh Halliday recommended we read the tweets from TS's balcony in PdL after he left the town yesterday, so JH seems to trust him... I don't understand why the PJ didn't tell SY how new the drain was and if they did why SY would go ahead.

Josh Halliday tweeted he was 'back, sadly, from Praia da Luz'. Sadly? He must think something important was happening, then. He will, of course, be party to the thoughts and knowledge of those he's spoken to there, residents and journos et al.

Clearly feels he's been pulled up like a runner with a twisted ankle half way through a race.

I think Josh halliday means he is now back in the uk - He said he was leaving yesterday

[PeterMac]

Has anyone noticed the video or TV camera in plain sight on the balcony behind them

Did you ?
Honestly ?

see how easy it is to focus on what they want you to.

[Guest]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

Good question. If so, could it be taxi to airport time?

You wont see the Mccanns in Portugal IF a body is found. No chance.

  No, I meant to another country far far away. With no extradition treaty. Barbados, for example.


Just joking.

[jeanmonroe]

Did they find pollen or seeds from a certain type of plant in the Scenic?  This would account for the aerial search for a certain tree or plant. Is this plant producing pollen at a certain time of year. ie June?

Maybe from the cannabis plant they 'found' on the 'snail'!