Re: Digging to start next week - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

by jeanmonroe 03.06.14 17:10

Varriott wrote:
ShuBob wrote:I feel quite sad at this latest development with the possibility of Maddie's body being dug up . Even if I've suspected for a long time she was dead, there was still that glimmer of hope. I can't really explain my point.

No question this is very sad. I lost all hope just over seven years ago... But I think everyone deserves a final resting place, and friends and family do deserve the chance to mourn appropriately. Maybe this is a small step in that direction. And maybe it's a small step towards justice for a little girl.

What?

Even the McCann and Healy 'families' deservre a chance to mourn?

Are you 'kidding'?

These were the people that propagated the 'abduction' scenario with their 'jemmied, smashed shutters' within hours!

And who have the 'fund' at their hearts, imo.

by bobbin 03.06.14 17:12

sallypelt wrote:
russiandoll wrote:way off topic but I thought we all needed a smile

BBC News (World) ‏@BBCWorld 39m
A black bear in Florida has been caught on camera relaxing in a hammock, twice http://bbc.in/1kFE7fP pic.twitter.com/uYMHF8wPXp

A friend of mine in Georgia, USA came home to find THREE brown bears in his house.

Don't tell me, one was a big bear, the next one was a middle sized bear and ....... laughat

by plebgate 03.06.14 17:15

jeanmonroe wrote:
Varriott wrote:
ShuBob wrote:I feel quite sad at this latest development with the possibility of Maddie's body being dug up . Even if I've suspected for a long time she was dead, there was still that glimmer of hope. I can't really explain my point.

No question this is very sad. I lost all hope just over seven years ago... But I think everyone deserves a final resting place, and friends and family do deserve the chance to mourn appropriately. Maybe this is a small step in that direction. And maybe it's a small step towards justice for a little girl.

What?

Even the McCann and Healy 'families' deservre a chance to mourn?

Are you 'kidding'?

These were the people that propagated the 'abduction' scenario with their 'jemmied, smashed shutters' within hours!

And who have the 'fund' at their hearts, imo.

Mr. Healy's comment - Maddie is a Diamond springs to my mind. No doubt about his love for his grand-daughter afaiac.

by Varriott 03.06.14 17:15

jeanmonroe wrote:
Varriott wrote:
ShuBob wrote:I feel quite sad at this latest development with the possibility of Maddie's body being dug up . Even if I've suspected for a long time she was dead, there was still that glimmer of hope. I can't really explain my point.

No question this is very sad. I lost all hope just over seven years ago... But I think everyone deserves a final resting place, and friends and family do deserve the chance to mourn appropriately. Maybe this is a small step in that direction. And maybe it's a small step towards justice for a little girl.

What?

Even the McCann and Healy 'families' deservre a chance to mourn?

Are you 'kidding'?

These were the people that propagated the 'abduction' scenario with their 'jemmied, smashed shutters' within hours!

And who have the 'fund' at their hearts, imo.

I was speaking generally. Obviously, people who are guilty of a crime like what probably happened here have forfeited a chance to mourn. But there are other family members, including two growing twins who have endured years of sham birthday parties.

by russiandoll 03.06.14 17:16

jeanmonroe wrote:
Varriott wrote:
ShuBob wrote:I feel quite sad at this latest development with the possibility of Maddie's body being dug up . Even if I've suspected for a long time she was dead, there was still that glimmer of hope. I can't really explain my point.

No question this is very sad. I lost all hope just over seven years ago... But I think everyone deserves a final resting place, and friends and family do deserve the chance to mourn appropriately. Maybe this is a small step in that direction. And maybe it's a small step towards justice for a little girl.

What?

Even the McCann and Healy 'families' deservre a chance to mourn?

Are you 'kidding'?

These were the people that propagated the 'abduction' scenario with their 'jemmied, smashed shutters' within hours!

And who have the 'fund' at their hearts, imo.

Imo there are people outside the immediate circle who will need to mourn this girl, the closest having done this a long time ago.

by roy rovers 03.06.14 17:16

shabba wrote:
AndyB wrote:
shabba wrote:
russiandoll wrote:I will try to answer Shabba, but I am not sure what your question is, exactly...

Sorry Russiandoll-why ask for a review when it puts you back under scrutiny?
They wouldn't worry about it if they believed beforehand that they wouldn't be scrutinised.

So taking that into account AndyB,how would it benefit them to ask for a review?

Hiding in plain sight. Doing all the things that the parents of a missing child would do.

by sallypelt 03.06.14 17:16

bobbin wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
russiandoll wrote:way off topic but I thought we all needed a smile

BBC News (World) ‏@BBCWorld 39m
A black bear in Florida has been caught on camera relaxing in a hammock, twice http://bbc.in/1kFE7fP pic.twitter.com/uYMHF8wPXp



  I does sound like a fairy tale, doesn't it? But it's true.

A friend of mine in Georgia, USA came home to find THREE brown bears in his house.
Don't tell me, one was a big bear, the next one was a middle sized bear and .......

:rotfl:I does sound like a fairy tale, doesn't it? But it's true. I don't know if they were all the same size, but if it had been my house, I wouldn't hang around long enough to see if they differed in sizes

by Bishop Brennan 03.06.14 17:17

The scale and speed of the dig has I think surprised everyone. It makes it all the more astonishing that the McCanns have not bothered their backsides to show up. They would have been informed that this was not just AR and a few chums doing a bit of prodding down at the beach. This is a major operation to find Maddies body.

And just where are her parents? No press camped in Rothley it seems. No reaction. Perhaps they are online as we speak, watching tv and fearful of every phone call or every knock on the door...

It's still way too early to say this is all going to end as we hope, but it's definitely the end game one way or another. This is the grand finale, and at the end of it a villain will be unmasked.

by roy rovers 03.06.14 17:18

Bishop Brennan wrote:The scale and speed of the dig has I think surprised everyone. It makes it all the more astonishing that the McCanns have not bothered their backsides to show up. They would have been informed that this was not just AR and a few chums doing a bit of prodding down at the beach. This is a major operation to find Maddies body.

And just where are her parents? No press camped in Rothley it seems. No reaction. Perhaps they are online as we speak, watching tv and fearful of every phone call or every knock on the door...

It's still way too early to say this is all going to end as we hope, but it's definitely the end game one way or another. This is the grand finale, and at the end of it a villain will be unmasked.

Or not.

by tiny 03.06.14 17:19

jeanmonroe wrote:
Varriott wrote:
ShuBob wrote:I feel quite sad at this latest development with the possibility of Maddie's body being dug up . Even if I've suspected for a long time she was dead, there was still that glimmer of hope. I can't really explain my point.

No question this is very sad. I lost all hope just over seven years ago... But I think everyone deserves a final resting place, and friends and family do deserve the chance to mourn appropriately. Maybe this is a small step in that direction. And maybe it's a small step towards justice for a little girl.

What?

Even the McCann and Healy 'families' deservre a chance to mourn?

Are you 'kidding'?

These were the people that propagated the 'abduction' scenario with their 'jemmied, smashed shutters' within hours!

And who have the 'fund' at their hearts, imo.

im with you jeanmonroe,they deserve f*** all

by Naz_Nomad 03.06.14 17:19

CynicAl wrote:"I'll chip in my dose of optimism again, for what it's worth...

There is a lot of speculation - understandable speculation - about a 'cover up'.

The problem is, that no one seems to understand the definition of a 'cover up.' Or its purpose.

... This isn't about selling papers. This is about something else. Something that has changed.

In my opinion, of course."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been thinking along similar lines recently, but have never put my thoughts down on "paper" (so to speak)

Very interesting.

by Guest 03.06.14 17:20

What a leap in just 24 hours! Yesterday I thought this was just another 'look here, not over there story' as it came at the same time as the news about the libel trial and Madeleine being a Ward of Court. I even made a comment yesterday to that effect but here we are 24 hours later and it seems that things really are moving at last and in my opinion it's much too involved and intense to be 'for show' . I really do believe now that they know what they are looking for. Sad that this almost certainly means that we will never see Madeleine alive but I think most of us already knew that deep down. I just hope that whatever happens now in PdL, that justice is finally and swiftly served on the perpetrator/s.

by Bishop Brennan 03.06.14 17:21

roy rovers wrote:
Bishop Brennan wrote:The scale and speed of the dig has I think surprised everyone. It makes it all the more astonishing that the McCanns have not bothered their backsides to show up. They would have been informed that this was not just AR and a few chums doing a bit of prodding down at the beach. This is a major operation to find Maddies body.

And just where are her parents? No press camped in Rothley it seems. No reaction. Perhaps they are online as we speak, watching tv and fearful of every phone call or every knock on the door...

It's still way too early to say this is all going to end as we hope, but it's definitely the end game one way or another. This is the grand finale, and at the end of it a villain will be unmasked.

Or not.

That would simply make AR the villain of the story, closing the case with a sorry but we didn't find anything. But the story will I believe end. McCanns, Patsy or AR as the villain.

by Newintown 03.06.14 17:27

roy rovers wrote:
shabba wrote:
AndyB wrote:
shabba wrote:
russiandoll wrote:I will try to answer Shabba, but I am not sure what your question is, exactly...

Sorry Russiandoll-why ask for a review when it puts you back under scrutiny?
They wouldn't worry about it if they believed beforehand that they wouldn't be scrutinised.

So taking that into account AndyB,how would it benefit them to ask for a review?
Hiding in plain sight. Doing all the things that the parents of a missing child would do.

K & G McCann may have been forced into asking for a review by family members who were not aware of the background to Madeleine's disappearance, if in fact she'd died in the apartment and her body was removed after sometime when cadaver odour had formed. Some family members would still be looking at an "abuction" if they weren't in the know.

Maybe asking for a review was the only way of stopping awkward questions being asked by family members as to why the PJ investigation had been shelved, but K & G never foresaw that it may escalate into a full-blown investigation.

by Shhh 03.06.14 17:27

Here's the coldwater post

"
Quote:
It wasn't a blanket. I understand it was on a large sheet of cold metal - forensic evidence was left behind.
"

From http://msngroup.aimoo.com/madeleinemccann/coldwater.msnw-action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=850&LastModified=4675673657248108147.htm

by stillsloppingout 03.06.14 17:27

roy rovers wrote:
sallypelt wrote:I don't know if there is any truth in this, but it's being tweeted and retweeted:

Justice_forum UK Justice Forum

New car park behind the church in Praia da Luz which may be excavated as police renew search for Madeleine #McCann http://t.co/ccAM4LwWkT

Worth a try - they found Richard III last time.

I bet if they went to Rothey now, there would be Richard III in Gerry's trousers big grin

by sallypelt 03.06.14 17:28

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpN70EKIUAIDQaU.jpg

@xklamation Joana Morais
RT @GarethITV: The "digging" seems to be more a collection of samples of some sort. #mccann @ITVCentral http://t.co/cRQsLSfd6W

They are looking in areas very close to residential buildings

by CynicAl 03.06.14 17:29

AndyB wrote:
CynicAl wrote:I'll chip in my dose of optimism again, for what it's worth...

There is a lot of speculation - understandable speculation - about a 'cover up'.

The problem is, that no one seems to understand the definition of a 'cover up.' Or its purpose.

A cover up is intended, principally, to hide the facts.

If the last seven years have seen any party make any effort at a 'cover up', then quite simply every single party that attempted a cover up has failed. If they hadn't failed, we wouldn't be discussing the glaringly obvious facts. No anomalies would be present, no evidence to contradict, no enigmas to promote legitimate speculation.
That all depends on what it is that being covered up. I happen to believe that the cover up is working extremely well and that the full truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann, and the circumstances surrounding her disappearance will never be known. I also believe that the only reason we are discussing any of this is that the Portuguese published all the case files, something that would be utterly unthinkable to our secretive rulers. Had the Portuguese not done so, I doubt that this forum would exist and none of the facts of which we are now aware would be known, let alone glaringly obvious. In other words, had the Portuguese not published their case files the cover-up would've worked from the start without the need for the Yard's current convoluted attempts to put the genie back in the bottle.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

The principle that my 'theory' works on is this: if the cover-up, as you say, was ever working extremely well, 'full truth' wouldn't matter and this wouldn't be happening now. The only reason for this to be happening now is if full truth CAN still be known, if leaks cannot be plugged, if a tide cannot be turned, and if there is absolutely no resort remaining whatsoever other than waking sleeping dogs and dragons so as to be seen to put them to bed again. I'll reiterate that the most public display of 'searching' in the world cannot possibly cover anything up to any greater degree than it was covered up before, because of the very process requires the resurrection of the whole debacle to current affairs status, to the memories of those who may have forgotten. It gives the guilty something to get more nervous and pensive about. It encourages slips, mistakes, paranoia. It is such an overblown display, in fact, that it actually DEMANDS results, in the form of some kind of simplification of the case toward a resolution, which will make all the 'co-conspirators' nothing but terribly nervous that any one of them is about to give the game away.

If this is a 'show', it is a well-calculated show, one that anticipates reward, one that could only exist for two purposes that I can even conceive - the first, to flush out a very narrowed list of suspects and make someone make a mistake. After all, how terrifying to someone who may have even just VISITED that hill with some property connected to the death of MBM let alone a body. Even if the chief suspect could proudly proclaim, in the wake of a later removal and disposal of the body - 'find the body and the evidence', they must be mighty nervous at the possibility that seven years on the genetic and forensic traces of their crime might yet still cling to their neck... Not to mention all those who may know the secrets. It sets a tone... If the body was there, and was moved, or if some articles were there which were once with the body, then there can be no other charge to be brought than that of murder. The very idea of a later movement, or a separation of evidence denotes calculation. I'd view it as a veiled threat... you can come clean now and we can talk about the circumstances compassionately, or we can run the gamble of us finding enough evidence to satisfy pressing charges, and we'll go with deliberacy as the root cause and you can go to court and argue the interpretation of the evidence DOWN to a lesser charge, but only by confessing completely to avoid any kind of murder charge.

Additionally, if the police, for example, had ALMOST as much as they feel they need, and are just looking for the cherry on top of their deluxe gelati of a prosecution, or are trying to flush a voluntary confession out of the suspects or their enablers and facilitators, then out of respect for the PJ and the damage done by Britain to Portugal this past seven years it could simply be a precondition that the case be closed out very dramatically in a PR-conscious manner, to give the demonstration for the global public who watched the humiliation of Portugal all this time, that the PJ investigation is not only affirmed, but a 'top' international Police Agency affirmed the methods, the theories, the co-operation and demonstrated that even in little old Luz, the long arm of the law will not rest until the place is made safe and justice is heralded once and for all.

Remember that Luz and Portugal in general have suffered BIG TIME with big media exposure for the past seven years. A quiet discovery of the missing key and a secretive and in-house arrest and prosecution of the suspects on British soil would, frankly, just not be fitting. This started big in Luz. And I think it would be very plausible that someone has concluded that it will be finished big in Luz - especially at the start of the tourist season - declaring once and for all that the heinous deceivers are captured, and the people need not fear the stalking monsters that have been repeatedly invented by those dodging the conviction of their own guilt.

Just a thought.

But as to the original principle... if the cover-up wasn't broke, why risk everything to fix it?

by tasprin 03.06.14 17:33

nobodythereeither wrote:
shabba wrote:
SixMillionQuid wrote:Also the shelving and publishing of the case left the finger of suspicion pointing at certain individuals - they needed it rectified. Now why would they publicly demand a review? If they were not confident in the outcome they would not have called for a review of the case.

Someone please reply to this post as I asked the same question in my first post on this forum,but no-one could explain why they would do that?

I thought I'd responded to this, but my post has disappeared so maybe I never pressed "Send"!

My take on it is that the McCanns publicly demanded a review because they thought it would look good.

But never in a million years did they think one would actually be started, still less that it would become an "investigation".

In 2010 no one was allowed to suggest that Madeleine may have died, "Anyone who wants to convince people that Madeleine is dead without evidence to support it then will just have to be questioned" said Gerry McCann. They asked for a review because they wanted all the information in one place, on one database, just in case the missing piece of the jigsaw was buried somewhere. Maybe SY have found it:

Extracts from CHANNEL 4 INTERVIEW with the McCanns 3 November 2010

DS And you mention the money from the trials. How do you feel now that Amaral's book is going to be on the shelves here'

GM Yeah, so. Well, you know, we've already alluded to it. Anyone who wants to convince people that Madeleine is dead without evidence to support it then will just have to be questioned. But today the focus is on asking the public to help us petition the governments to do more.

DS Do you feel that you should be chasing libel actions' Some people might say why don't you just leave libel stuff to one side' Why try and silence your critics'

KM Well obviously we've talked about this in great detail previously. The reason why we had to take actiion was because we strongly felt it was damaging the search to find Madeleine and as Gerry has just said, that is our ultimate goal, is to find Madeleine---.
----

GM I would like to say to you that we did have some hot leads but the very fact that we are calling for a complete review to identify further areas for investigation is telling you that, you know, more needs to be done. All the information needs to be put onto one database because that may be the way that we find the key bit of information, the missing piece of the jigsaw.

DS So at the moment you are worried that there isn't even a central database so the information might not be getting cross referenced (''''')'

KM Yes, I mean there's information in lots of centres that hasn't been brought together and there could be two key bits of information that individually don't seem key but put together could give you some valuable information that could take you one step closer to finding Madeleine so it just seems an obvious and crucial thing to do. And this is why reviews are done time and time again in this country on major investigations.

DS So you must be frustrated that the government has carried out a scoping into whether there should be a review and no action has been taken'

GM Yeah, I mean that's what we're asking for. We want to see what action. We want metrics. We want deliverables. And we want the government to do more. Madeleine is a British subject and the government should be doing more to look out for her interests.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/43nov10/HEADLINES_TODAY_03_11_10.htm

by Ollie 03.06.14 17:34

Andy Redwood said during CW that this was for Madeleine and I believed him then and still do. This is no whitewash, he and the PJ are seeking Madeleine's body so she can be laid to rest at last and those responsible are brought to justice.

I also hoped that Madeleine was still alive but in my heart knew that she wasn't. I hope now that Madeleine is found so she can rest in peace.

by Shhh 03.06.14 17:34

The first hit I get on google for the words coldwater corregated mccann is a post on steel magnolia from Stephen 'coldwater' Birch ??

Is he? Sorry, might warrant a thread of it's own. Curious

by Shhh 03.06.14 17:35

stillsloppingout wrote:
roy rovers wrote:
sallypelt wrote:I don't know if there is any truth in this, but it's being tweeted and retweeted:

Justice_forum UK Justice Forum

New car park behind the church in Praia da Luz which may be excavated as police renew search for Madeleine #McCann http://t.co/ccAM4LwWkT

Worth a try - they found Richard III last time.
I bet if they went to Rothey now, there would be Richard III in Gerry's trousers

by Bishop Brennan 03.06.14 17:39

A quick interview with the McCanns right now would be helpful. From their faces we would soon know if the dig is about to find something or whether they are way off base. If it was the latter, you just know Gerry would be unable to hide his smirking.

by Sceptic 03.06.14 17:40

Shhh wrote:The first hit I get on google for the words coldwater corregated mccann is a post on steel magnolia from Stephen 'coldwater' Birch ??

Is he? Sorry, might warrant a thread of it's own. Curious

Coldwalter was a regular contributer to the 3 arguidos forum - made many predictions stated as facts - some checked out and we're true others were not - always stated he/she had sources within - then disappeared without a trace the day of the shelving

by SixMillionQuid 03.06.14 17:40

CynicAl wrote:
AndyB wrote:
CynicAl wrote:I'll chip in my dose of optimism again, for what it's worth...

There is a lot of speculation - understandable speculation - about a 'cover up'.

The problem is, that no one seems to understand the definition of a 'cover up.' Or its purpose.

A cover up is intended, principally, to hide the facts.

If the last seven years have seen any party make any effort at a 'cover up', then quite simply every single party that attempted a cover up has failed. If they hadn't failed, we wouldn't be discussing the glaringly obvious facts. No anomalies would be present, no evidence to contradict, no enigmas to promote legitimate speculation.
That all depends on what it is that being covered up. I happen to believe that the cover up is working extremely well and that the full truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann, and the circumstances surrounding her disappearance will never be known. I also believe that the only reason we are discussing any of this is that the Portuguese published all the case files, something that would be utterly unthinkable to our secretive rulers. Had the Portuguese not done so, I doubt that this forum would exist and none of the facts of which we are now aware would be known, let alone glaringly obvious. In other words, had the Portuguese not published their case files the cover-up would've worked from the start without the need for the Yard's current convoluted attempts to put the genie back in the bottle.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

But as to the original principle... if the cover-up wasn't broke, why risk everything to fix it?

As mentioned before the original investigation was archived pending further info. Fingers were still pointing therefore the issues remain unresolved that needed resolving - the cover up needed finalising.

The request for review goes back farther than 2010. I think it goes back to 2009 when Mr McCann sought cooperation with the PJ police. A bit of a strange move considering he was still under their radar. Then there was the previous Home Secretary Alan Johnson's scoping exercise for the review. I'm sure their lawyers would have warned them that a review could put them back in the frame, but they seem pretty confident about the outcome.

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