Re: "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

by Hicks 13.05.14 22:09

Ladyinred wrote:I don't believe any running activity took place. Remember, they were all so into each other.

Literally! laughat

by mariola 13.05.14 22:09

Andrew77R wrote:
Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?
He didn't.

Simples.

I thought Oldfield checked but didn,t enter the room,saw the twins but not Maddie.

by Guest 13.05.14 22:12

WLBTS: Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage. (After her long "run" with MO).

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:13

Ladyinred wrote:Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage.

And wasn't Gerry talking to that 'well-endowed' fitness instructor?

by Guest 13.05.14 22:15

mariola wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?
He didn't.

Simples.
I thought Oldfield checked but didn,t enter the room,saw the twins but not Maddie.

Oldfield claims that is what he did.

by Guest 13.05.14 22:16

I personally don't go along with this 'swinging' theory.

Can you really see GM letting some other bloke have it away with his Mrs.... seriously??

The running episode with MO and KG. They didn't go off to have some slap and tickle somewhere. They were off putting the 'wheels in motion'.

This was key planning time.

MO - going for a 8 mile run, on the sand. From a guy who doesn't jog and doesn't like running. Load of tosh.

KM - Getting bit by a stray dog while out running. Load of tosh.

Yes they were out together somewhere in PDL but IMO they were probably looking for possible hiding places, burial spots etc.

GM and KM couldn't go out together. One (GM) would have to stay and be seen around the complex enjoying tennis etc. The routine.

Remember all this was IMO after MBM had met her fate.

Whatever they say is all tosh.

Whatever they were doing was to start putting the plan into practice.

All IMO of course.

by Hicks 13.05.14 22:16

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage.

And wasn't Gerry talking to that 'well-endowed' fitness instructor?

Kate 'allegedly' slept in the bed nearest the window, the same bed that was said to have a semen stain on the bedcover.
Was Gerry' using' the other room? Perhaps the children were elsewhere.

by mariola 13.05.14 22:17

Ladyinred wrote:I don't believe any running activity took place. Remember, they were all so into each other.

I thought the comments by JT about not being comfortable with GM were offered too freely as no one asked her about him IIRC.

by Guest 13.05.14 22:19

mariola wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?
He didn't.

Simples.
I thought Oldfield checked but didn,t enter the room,saw the twins but not Maddie.

Nope he did not.

Simples again.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:19

Andrew77R wrote:I personally don't go along with this 'swinging' theory.

Can you really see GM letting some other bloke have it away with his Mrs.... seriously??

The running episode with MO and KG. They didn't go off to have some slap and tickle somewhere. They were off putting the 'wheels in motion'.

This was key planning time.

MO - going for a 8 mile run, on the sand. From a guy who doesn't jog and doesn't like running. Load of tosh.

KM - Getting bit by a stray dog while out running. Load of tosh.

Yes they were out together somewhere in PDL but IMO they were probably looking for possible hiding places, burial spots etc.

GM and KM couldn't go out together. One (GM) would have to stay and be seen around the complex enjoying tennis etc. The routine.

Remember all this was IMO after MBM had met her fate.

Whatever they say is all tosh.

Whatever they were doing was to start putting the plan into practice.

All IMO of course.

I'm not convinced of the swinging theory, or the "wheels in motion" theory :)

What day was Kate and MO's "run"? Was it Wednesday, 2nd May? What time was it?

Kate signed the creche records 'Kate Healy' at 17:30 on Wednesday 2nd May.

ETA - if you're planning to dispose of your dead child's body and fake an abduction, it is paramount that you be inconspicuous. Signing the creche records under your maiden name when you've to date always signed under your married name is not being inconspicuous.

by Guest 13.05.14 22:24

Andrew77R wrote:I personally don't go along with this 'swinging' theory.

Can you really see GM letting some other bloke have it away with his Mrs.... seriously??

The running episode with MO and KG. They didn't go off to have some slap and tickle somewhere. They were off putting the 'wheels in motion'.

This was key planning time.

MO - going for a 8 mile run, on the sand. From a guy who doesn't jog and doesn't like running. Load of tosh.

KM - Getting bit by a stray dog while out running. Load of tosh.

Yes they were out together somewhere in PDL but IMO they were probably looking for possible hiding places, burial spots etc.

GM and KM couldn't go out together. One (GM) would have to stay and be seen around the complex enjoying tennis etc. The routine.

Remember all this was IMO after MBM had met her fate.

Whatever they say is all tosh.

Whatever they were doing was to start putting the plan into practice.

All IMO of course.

Andrew77R: I don't disagree with what you say, it's possible.
I think we agree that Kate and MO weren't running on that day.

by Watching 13.05.14 22:26

Ladyinred wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:I personally don't go along with this 'swinging' theory.

Can you really see GM letting some other bloke have it away with his Mrs.... seriously??

The running episode with MO and KG. They didn't go off to have some slap and tickle somewhere. They were off putting the 'wheels in motion'.

This was key planning time.

MO - going for a 8 mile run, on the sand. From a guy who doesn't jog and doesn't like running. Load of tosh.

KM - Getting bit by a stray dog while out running. Load of tosh.

Yes they were out together somewhere in PDL but IMO they were probably looking for possible hiding places, burial spots etc.

GM and KM couldn't go out together. One (GM) would have to stay and be seen around the complex enjoying tennis etc. The routine.

Remember all this was IMO after MBM had met her fate.

Whatever they say is all tosh.

Whatever they were doing was to start putting the plan into practice.

All IMO of course.

Andrew77R: I don't disagree with what you say, it's possible.
I think we agree that Kate and MO weren't running on that day.

Where was Mr Wednesday afternoon? And where was Oldfield when Mrs was bitten by dog? Has he mentioned this?

by missbeetle 13.05.14 22:27

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage.

And wasn't Gerry talking to that 'well-endowed' fitness instructor?

Was there any credence in the rumour that Kate had kipped on Murat's sofa after an argument one night?

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:28

Watching wrote:
Where was Mr Wednesday afternoon? And where was Oldfield when Mrs was bitten by dog? Has he mentioned this?

No-one seemed particularly keen to talk about the events of the 2nd May. As far as I can tell all we have to go on is Kate's book.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:29

missbeetle wrote:
Was there any credence in the rumour that Kate had kipped on Murat's sofa after an argument one night?

I've not heard that before. No idea :)

by missbeetle 13.05.14 22:35

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
missbeetle wrote:
Was there any credence in the rumour that Kate had kipped on Murat's sofa after an argument one night?

I've not heard that before. No idea :)

It was on this above site and thread, question 11 by Sentinel of the 3As.

by Cristobell 13.05.14 22:36

Newintown wrote:
Mirage wrote:
Doug D wrote:Thanks Mirage.

I agree the move from the second OC apartment to the villa was on 2/7, but there seemed to be a suggestion of another move from a villa to another villa at some stage, but this may just be misinformation.

That's ok Doug. My understanding is that the Mcs were initially allocated another larger apartment by MW. Then, as more family arrived, they were offered a villa, gratis. But the owner then decided he wanted them out and they moved on 2nd July to the final villa which they had to pay for themselves. This is the villa where the Scenic boot was left open day after day, and where Jon Corner filmed, and from where they left abruptly in Sept when declared arguidos

It is mind-boggling re-visiting these blogs. On one day he writes of his lost daughter the following:
The Portuguese police have assured us on numerous occasions that they are looking for Madeleine and not a corpse.
He finishes the day's blog with:
I spent a couple of hours this afternoon working on forthcoming events but did manage to squeeze in a much-needed haircut!

But this one on 11th Aug '07 takes the bloody biscuit :

"UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO ADD PATIENCE TO OUR OTHER CHARACTERISTICS "

Hello! Oscar Pistorius, eat your heart out!

I wonder what Gerry thinks their other characteristics are?

Suave
Persuasive
Urbane
Charming
Fragrant
Elegant
Eloquent
Understanding
Empathetic
Helpful
Obliging
Co-operative
Self-effacing
Attractive
Educated
Articulate
Self-sacrificing
Grateful
Gracious
Humble
Thankful
Wise
Child-centred (well, where every other missing child on the planet but his own is concerned)

Gerry's Memo to self: After the morning jog, must work on patience. It's the only weakness in Kate and I's characters.

Gawd's truth. Let me lie down.

They show the characteristics of two parents who have never had to go through the "abduction" of a child; they therefore have to make up all the emotions, feelings etc as they go along and get it very wrong.

Brilliant!

I have to question Empathetic though, if they had empathy they would know how normal parents would react to the loss of their child. They were acting out what they thought parents in that situation would do, and they got it badly wrong.

by Guest 13.05.14 22:36

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Watching wrote:
Where was Mr Wednesday afternoon? And where was Oldfield when Mrs was bitten by dog? Has he mentioned this?

No-one seemed particularly keen to talk about the events of the 2nd May. As far as I can tell all we have to go on is Kate's book.

Creche records for 2nd May?

by Guest 13.05.14 22:41

@WLBTS.

Yes, it was the afternoon of Wed the 2nd. Not sure of exact times.

Yes you would need to be inconspicuous. However as they didn't have any previous for faking an abduction etc then all is not going to go to exact plan as we can tell by all the discrepancies later on.

Inconspicuous for them would be instead of KM and GM going off together then lets have KM and MO.

At a later date when interviewed etc then it would look a bit fishy that both Kate and Gerry disappeared for the afternoon on the day before there daughter vanished.

As for signing Healy instead of Mccann. Do we know that it was her signature or a forged one. Cant recall off the top of my head...

I'm sure she wasn't thinking straight anyway. Probably wished she still was a Healy and could turn back the clock.

@ladyinred.

No i am certain that they were not running. Although dressed as if they were going for a run i'm sure.

However IMO they were out there together looking and planning.

IMO of course.

by Woofer 13.05.14 22:41

@ stillsloppingout - I don`t know whether to believe your post about swingers or not - are you having a joke ?

However I do remember, a few years back, reading that Leicester NHS was rife with swingers. I have looked for the piece many times but can`t find it. Anyone else remember it ? Mind you, it could be the case in many towns. Swinging can be passed off as golf and badminton clubs or any sport where something is swung laughat

.

There is also a golf club, can`t remember where (abroad) that is solely for golf and swinging.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:44

One thing that has always bothered me in regards to the theory that Maddy died before the 3rd, is Kate. I don't think Kate has any control over her emotions, I really can't see her sitting at the Tapas knowing her daughter was dead. I'm well aware that lots of people do see this is possible, just let me be clear that it's just my feelings on the matter.

But more than that, my main cause of doubt has always been the terrifying scream that was heard by the waiter Salcedas.

Now I'm starting to think - what if the evening of the 3rd was pre-planned, but Kate didn't know about it, or even know Maddy was dead? What if she had been too 'preoccupied' on the 3rd, hadn't even been into 5A?

I need to refer to the rogatory interview of waiter J.R.Salcedas, as I have several times before:

On the night Madeleine disappeared, everything appeared normal. I remember that when I took notice of the disappearance, I had been in the restaurant speaking with my two colleagues?Ze and Ricardo who were on break. I returned to the restaurant and noticed that the table of nine was empty with the exception of the older woman. I went over to the table and joked with her: ?They've left you alone?? She responded more of less with these words: ?No, they went to see if the little girl was there.? I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleines father, running to the pool and to the childrens play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

I went to find Ze and Ricardo to give them the news and to get their help in searching for the missing girl. I saw the head of the Milenium Restaurant in the Tapas and asked him to telephone the restaurant.

I ran out of the Tapas and noticed that some of the childcare works of the Mark Warner had begun to arrive. At the point I left the Tapas I heard a scream from a woman I did not know. I do not know who screamed, but I had never heard a similar cry. I cannot even describe it but thought it had come from the child's mother. I went to the reception with one of the child care workers whose name I do not remember. One of the employees looked to be organizing the searches and told us the name of the child.

My previous theory had been that Kate had found Maddy's body. However, I have had some doubts about that. I'm now wondering whether the scream occurred when one of the Tapas group finally told Kate what had happened to Maddy, and why she wasn't in 5A. Kate had lots of bruises on her arms, which to me look as if she had been restrained.

The later "They've taken her", and the more lurid "The f******g b******ds have taken her" make a lot of sense, if she didn't know where Maddy had been taken and by specifically whom - she is referring to the rest of the Tapas group.

I'm wondering if Kate had been considered by Gerry to be too much of a liability, and was therefore kept out of it for as long as absolutely necessary. In this theory, the 'last photo' once again makes sense, and the gathering in the Paraiso in front of the CCTVs makes sense.

by Woofer 13.05.14 22:45

Hicks wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage.

And wasn't Gerry talking to that 'well-endowed' fitness instructor?
Kate 'allegedly' slept in the bed nearest the window, the same bed that was said to have a semen stain on the bedcover.
Was Gerry' using' the other room? Perhaps the children were elsewhere.

Well endowed fitness instructor was the Tuesday, as was the night Maddie was crying for 1 3/4 hours.

by Watching 13.05.14 22:45

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Watching wrote:
Where was Mr Wednesday afternoon? And where was Oldfield when Mrs was bitten by dog? Has he mentioned this?

No-one seemed particularly keen to talk about the events of the 2nd May. As far as I can tell all we have to go on is Kate's book.

Thanks that's interesting. Wonder if GA covered this?

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:46

Andrew77R wrote:
As for signing Healy instead of Mccann. Do we know that it was her signature or a forged one. Cant recall off the top of my head...

I'm sure she wasn't thinking straight anyway. Probably wished she still was a Healy and could turn back the clock.

Well that's possible. But it is also possible that there was marital strife, and the signature was a deliberate statement.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:48

Woofer wrote:
Well endowed fitness instructor was the Tuesday, as was the night Maddie was crying for 1 3/4 hours.

That's what I thought. Didn't the McCanns try to claim that it was the 2nd, but the instructor was scheduled to come in on the 1st? So it was probably the 1st.

Could a massive falling out have occurred on the Tuesday? I seem to remember a flurry of mobile phone activity from Kate that evening.